SPCjessica2004

Time for some fun folks!  What do you think of these intriguing matchups?  Can you think of any more?  Any name changes we should consider? 
The Bipolar Bowl-Mourning vs Celebration
The Big Nuts Bowl-Palm Coast vs Coconut Creek
The Heimlich Maneuver Bowl-Deerfield Beach vs Vero Beach
The Battle of the Tweets-Venice vs Braden River
The Names with Too Many Syllables Bowl-Choctawhatchee vs Wewahitchka
The Island Life Bowl-Merritt Island vs Fleming Island
The Blowhard Bowl-Seabreeze vs Gulf Breeze
The Don't Take Sides Bowl-Westside vs Eastside
The Battle of the Planets-Jupiter vs Neptune Beach Fletcher
The Space Cadet Bowl-Space Coast vs Astronaut
The President's Bowl - Lincoln vs Jefferson
The Fruit Salad Bowl - Mulberry vs Strawberry Crest
The Just Squeeze This Bowl-Lemon Bay vs Orange Park
The Any Port in a Storm Bowl-West Port vs North Port
The Tree Fell in a Forest Bowl-Pine Forest vs Ocala Forest
The Middle of the Pack Bowl-Middleton vs Middleburg
The FSU Wannabe Bowl-Seminole vs Osceola
The Battle for the Pearly Gates-Gateway vs Golden Gate
The Battle of the Beach Bums-Atlantic Coast vs Gulf Coast
The Peaceful Bowl-Niceville vs Lake Placid
The Battle of the Sisters Bowl-Kathleen vs Carol City
The Green Thumb Bowl-Plant vs Plant City
The Run for the Hills Bowl-Hollywood Hills vs Zephyrhills
The Muddy Waters Bowl-Clearwater vs Crystal River
The Gimme History for $200 Bowl-Columbus vs Lafayette
The Ride the Pine Bowl-Pine Forest vs Pine Ridge
The Wrong Side of Town Bowl-Northeast(St Pete) vs Northeast(Ft Lauderdale)
The Home on the Range Bowl-Lakewood Ranch vs Wiregrass Ranch
The Florida Frozen Tundra Bowl-Winter Springs vs Frostproof
The Big O Bowl-Oviedo vs Spoto
The Only Cheaters Recruit Bowl-Bolles vs St Thomas Aquinas
The Michael Jackson Memorial Bowl-Miami Jackson vs Jacksonville Jackson
The Nice Catholic Boys Bowl-Bishop Moore vs Bishop Verot
The Peezy Nightmare Bowl-Dunedin vs IMG Academy
The Calling All Transfers Bowl-Chaminade-Madonna vs Armwood
The Red Tide Bowl-Tarpon Springs vs Manatee
The Communist Party Values Bowl-Liberty vs Freedom
The Coaching Merry-Go-Round Bowl-Glades Central vs Pahokee
The Turn Your Head and Cough Bowl-Dr Phillips vs Dr Krop
The Does It Really Mater Bowl-Mater Academy vs Westland Hialeah
 

I just did a thread for Class of 2020 transfers(work in progress) and the rb from Plant City who transferred to Armwood is in the top 50.  Armwood relied a lot on transfers this past season.  I think that will eventually bite them.  

I did not get a chance to see him play.  How was he in high school compared to big brother (Jacquez not his his big little brother whom I cannot remember his name lol).

I've counted numerous other "small school private polls" where the only two Florida teams that make the list are Chaminade-Madonna and CCC, yet JaxTCA is technically smaller than both of them but doesn't get a mention. I think there are other criteria in these polls not being listed.   I'm thinking with JaxTCA moving back to 3A, they'll be #1 in all of the small school polls starting 2019.

I've counted numerous other "small school private polls" where the only two Florida teams that make the list are Chaminade-Madonna and CCC, yet JaxTCA is technically smaller than both of them but doesn't get a mention. I think there are other criteria in these polls not being listed.   I'm thinking with JaxTCA moving back to 3A, they'll be #1 in all of the small school polls starting 2019.

Back in the day, it was not unusual for someone to coach multiple sports at the high school level and it was not uncommon that a coach had little to no college experience in one or all of those sports.
I knew one who coached football and golf. He never golfed competitively, yet he coached some excellent golf teams.  Wrestling coaching legend John Lyzott of McArthur came there to be a tennis coach.   High schools were not afraid to give someone with little formal experience a chance to "learn along the way."  
We have become very specialized and snooty today.  It's this "hs football is bigger than life mentality."  Now we need hs coaches with specific backgrounds.  Reminds me of the companies who only want to hire "people with experience" and have no opportunities for those without.  So, how does one ever get it?
Folks today would laugh themselves silly at how unsophisticated things were 50 years ago.  We got to where we are today by a lot of creativity and "experimentation."  And to continue to evolve, we need the same.  Sometimes the best "outside the box" thinkers are "outsiders," because they are not bound by perceptions and traditional barriers.

I have to agree, Jessica.  By including urban teams in this poll, it opens up a lot of questions.  I think it would have much easier to include only rural/semi-rural schools.  That approach likely would have kept out any private schools. 
 
 

CCC has also been on this list every year since 2013 except for 2015 per Kibid.

I've counted numerous other "small school private polls" where the only two Florida teams that make the list are Chaminade-Madonna and CCC, yet JaxTCA is technically smaller than both of them but doesn't get a mention. I think there are other criteria in these polls not being listed.   I'm thinking with JaxTCA moving back to 3A, they'll be #1 in all of the small school polls starting 2019.

Broward County is also home to one the most volatile coaching scenes in the state.  Can you imagine the challenge of getting one of their lagging public school programs turned around under these circumstances?  There is no comparison between such an effort here and certain other parts of the state.  No other schools in the state face such intense competition for talent...not even close.  Who outside Broward County has to compete with 5 state/nationally ranked private schools for talent ever year?
I don't know the answer for these coaches, but "trying harder" alone is likely not going to cut it, especially when they are losing many of their best players every year to the Broward and Dade County powers. 
We focus a lot on those who "gain" from transfers.  IMO the focus should be on those who "lose," because the breadth of that impact is much greater.  Hating the "rich" is not going to make things better.  We need to figure out how to help those in the "lower and middle classes, " who are feeling the broadening gap in "wealth" of talent.  

FYI...I am not a private school homer.  I have simply become more aware of the hypocrisy of criticizing private schools when I see public schools doing as much or more recruiting nowadays.  Sure St Thomas gets a lot of transfers, but no doubt at least some of those kids want to come there because of their outstanding reputation...and no prompting is needed by STA to get them to come.  The same can be said for some of the other private schools.       

Here are Florida's top 20 running backs(excluding IMG) from the Class of 2019.  A number of them spent all four years of their high school career at one school.  Only one transferred within the past two years.  Contrast that with the top 20 senior WR's in the state, 10 of whom transferred within the past 2 seasons, or the top 20 senior DE's in the state, 11 of whom transferred within the past 2 seasons.   1. Mark-Antony Richards/ATH-RB-Wellington 2. Kenny McIntosh/RB-University School 3. Chez Mellusi/RB-Naples 4. Nayquan Wright/RB-Carol City 5. Keshawn King/RB-Oakleaf 6. DJ Williams/RB-Sebring 7. Marcus Crowley/RB-Trinity Christian 8. Daniel Carter/RB-St Thomas Aquinas 9. Kenny Logan/ATH-RB-Menendez 10. Seneca Milledge/RB-Dunbar 11. Damarius Good/ATH-RB-Lake Brantley 12. Jerjuan Newton/ATH-RB-Clearwater Central Catholic 13. Vincent Davis/RB-Cardinal Gibbons 14. Jatarie Washington/RB-Pahokee 15. Lexington Joseph/RB-Miami Central 16. Jouvensly Bazile/RB-Golden Gate 17. Peter Hayes-Patrick/RB-Winter Park-transferred from Timber Creek 18. Jalen Mitchell/RB-Rockledge 19. Devin Ellison/RB-Bartram Trail 20. Knowledge McDaniel/RB-Braden River  

I just have a hard time believing in the IMG concept for high school football. If you're already a four or five star player you've got your offers. Sometimes it really more has to do with the lifestyle and training. But I think most kids just want to be kids and go to school like normal kids and not tucked away in some athletic Academy with a college type schedule and non-stop regimented training.

They are in that range, not specifically a top 25 team, but in that area. The highest publication I've seen has them ranked (Football hotbed) #19 in the state, Maxpreps has them at 30, Laz has them at 28.  We personally have them at 28 in the state of Florida.

I'm anxiously awaiting transfer season to see who transfers where...

In terms of rankings I see it breaking down like this:

JaxTCA and Chaminade Madonna will be in the top 20 in Florida for all classes and be in the all school national ranking polls pending on the success of their seasons against elite level competition. I think JaxTCA will be  in the 9-12 range and Chaminade in the 13-18 range starting in 2019.

CCC will be in the 20-27 range in Florida for all classes and be in the small school national rankings.

After that?  I see the next closest 3A teams in the 100-125 range for the state.

Granted anything can happen with transfers, but that's probably the most realistic outcome for the next few years.

 

OldschoolLion,

You make very valid points; however, I would also point out that the schools you listed after Chaminade and JaxTCA have administrations that will not let nearly as many players into the school. Jacksonville and Hollywood have tons of athletes, no doubt, but to get them enrolled into the school and pay for tuition requires the administration to assist with getting financial aid.

There is a reason that Chaminade went into the dump between 2009-2015. The administration stopped letting players in for athletics as the school had garnered a bad reputation by the full tuition individuals. JaxTCA is a state powerhouse and household name, but 15 years ago they had to go independent to start fielding a competitive team.

CCC to me is the most interesting team in 3A because even though they haven't gotten to the state finals since 2013, they've consistently made the later rounds (Regional Final, State Semi-Finals) for years and really show no signs of slowing down.  Now, I've been told the administration there will let kids in so they have a better program than SPC/TC/Berkeley/Calvary/Mooney, but won't let the amount in needed to defeat Chaminade/JaxTCA. In this case, it's not a lack of money, it's clearly the administration drawing a line in the sand which is odd, considering they've won the most soccer boys state championships in state history and if you look at their championship history, they're in the top 25 of all teams in Florida history with most state championships in athletics.

Ocala Trinity Catholic is another example. This is a team that has had success in championship games against South Florida. They had a great coaching staff and a liberal administration who let guys transfer in.  Part of the reason Brantley left was because the administration wanted to go in a different direction. Even as late as 2014 they were within 30 seconds of defeating JaxTCA in the regional final round.

So, to answer your question who can realistically compete with Chaminade and JaxTCA? My response? All of them, but a big part of the equation is buy in from the administration to WANT to compete with them. The other side of it is coaching and the right players at the right times.



 

Maybe you already noticed, but Region 3 in  3A, 4A, 6A and 7A all have similar scenarios, with Tampa area teams potentially having to travel to the West Palm Beach area or vice versa in the first round.  At least they were trying to be somewhat consistent in the approach.  

If Florida followed suit with Pennsylvania's "competition success formula," schools like Chaminade and Trinity would potentially move up in class over time.
 

In terms of rankings I see it breaking down like this:

JaxTCA and Chaminade Madonna will be in the top 20 in Florida for all classes and be in the all school national ranking polls pending on the success of their seasons against elite level competition. I think JaxTCA will be  in the 9-12 range and Chaminade in the 13-18 range starting in 2019.

CCC will be in the 20-27 range in Florida for all classes and be in the small school national rankings.

After that?  I see the next closest 3A teams in the 100-125 range for the state.

Granted anything can happen with transfers, but that's probably the most realistic outcome for the next few years.

 

The family finally had a chance to review the upcoming changes to the Class 3A classifications and wanted to provide some feedback due to the individuals asking.

  First, we'll break the regions down:

Region 1:
The 800lb gorilla in the room is that Jacksonville Trinity Christian is back in 3A. The frustration was immediately evident in the individuals I communicated with in the region. JaxTCA took a chainsaw to class 3A years ago and is likely to do so again. To be fair, the individuals I've spoken with on the Trinity coaching staff do not WANT to be in 3A, it's being forced on them. Trinity was very happy in 5A and obviously very successful. 

That said, there are some good quality teams in region 1. Pensacola Catholic has made strides in rebuilding their program and I believe will continue to do so into 2019. Florida High School has a very talented team coming back in 2019 and will field a competitive team. Public schools are well represented in region 1: Baldwin is coming off a highly successful season and will be joined by Interlachen, Andrew Jackson, Wolfson and Walton. P.K Younge will also be in region 1.  Trinity Catholic moves from region 3 to region 2 is now in the north.

Region 2:
This is probably the most open region in the state and will be fun to watch in 2019. There's a lot of evenly matched teams like Orlando First Academy, Lakeland Christian, Melbourne Central Catholic, Frostproof, Holy Trinity, Father Lopez. I don't see a team you can point to and say "yeah, that's the clear favorite to win".  LCS would likely be my pick right now, but MCC is expected to field a good team in 2019 after struggling in 2018. 

Region 3:
This region was changed the most (geographically) of any region in 3A as it now extends from Tampa down the west coach to Ft. Myers/Naples and across the state to West Palm Beach. Similar to Region 1 there's a lot of quality teams here: Benjamin, King's Academy, Berkeley Prep, Bishop Verot, John Carroll, Calvary Christian. I don't know anything about Oasis or Bonita Springs.  The question will be, can any of these teams knock off Clearwater Central Catholic in the regional rounds?  King's is the defending state runner-up and returns a fair amount. Benjamin isn't going away. This will be Calvary Christian's best team in school history (on paper), Bishop Verot has become a quality football team in the past 2 seasons. Berkeley Prep is always a factor.  Still, pre transfer season I'm going with CCC.

Region 4:
This could end up being the most lopsided region in the entire state and be in the running for most lopsided in the country. With American Heritage Delray now in 4A there really isn't anybody around that can compete with Chaminade-Madonna, which is a shame because there are some up and coming schools down there. Ft. Lauderdale Calvary Christian is a good program and Palmer Trinity isn't bad for the team they should be playing.  The only question mark is Miami Edison down the road. If Coach Campbell can build the program up and get buy in from the Miami community he could have a powerhouse on his hands, but as currently constructed they would likely be a 4-5 TD underdog against Chaminade-Madonna.


Looking at the classification as a whole, here is my pre-transfer season top 10:

1) Jacksonville Trinity (Region 1)
2) Chaminade-Madonna (Region 4)
3) Clearwater Central Catholic (Region 3)
4) King's Academy (Region 3)
5) Pensacola Catholic  (Region 1)
6) Calvary Christian (Region 3)
7) Benjamin School (Region 3)
8) Orlando First Academy (Region 2)
9) Florida High (Region 1)
10) Berkeley Prep (Region 3)

 

No ability to move up + no relegation system system (like some states have) + Era of the Superteam = A handful of teams utterly dominating the lower classes
Some things were fixed with the new classifications, but it appears someone punted on this issue this time around.  I guess it is going to take some very embarrassing results and/or or teams bailing out to prompt action and address the issue.

Thought this might interest some folks.  The closest thing I know of to Florida's 3A class is Pennsylvania's 4A class.  Each of the past three seasons, Cathedral Prep(CP) of Erie and Imhotep Charter(IC) of Philadelphia have met in the title game and dominated the competition along the way.  In the past two seasons, nobody has gotten within 2 TD's of them in the playoffs. 
Below are their regional playoff games scores over each of the past 3 seasons. As dominant as they are, neither team has won both regional playoff games in one year by over 35 points.  Trinity Christian did just that in 2015 and Chaminade-Madonna did it last year.    
I hope I am wrong, but what we see in 3A next year could be one of the most lopsided classes anywhere in the country in terms of two teams being so far ahead of the rest.
 
2018-4A
CP 42-10, 55-21
IC 20-0, 37-9
 
2017-4A
CP- 56-0, 42-17
IC 40-7, 41-0
 
2016-4A
CP 58-12, 30-13
IC 36-6, 38-7
 
 

That isn't a fhsaa choice
 
Separating the publics and privates have to be done at state legislation level and considering the state legislature has proven many times that they don't care about the school system best bet it will never happen 

The 2018 Florida High School Football has come to an end this past weekend and with it we've crowned a repeat champion. Congrats are in order for Chaminade-Madonna for not only playing the most difficult schedule in the classification but for one of the most dominant post-season runs for all classifications. For the second year in a row the Lions only gave up 3 points in the south end of the 3A bracket and only gave up 13 points total in all of the 3A playoffs.

While the trophy and the accolades go to the Lions there was actually some really good football played in the classification as a whole. Here is my final Class 3A rankings now that the finals are behind us:

1) Hollywood Chaminade Madonna (11-2): The Lions repeat as champions thanks in part to a very strong senior class. 9 of the 11 starters in the secondary hold multiple power 5 offers and the offense continued its relentless assault in the state championship game putting up 38 points. By the time national signing day rolls around the Lions could have as many as 20 of their 23 seniors sign to play college football somewhere in the country, even if it's not at the power 5 level.   Looking into 2019, the Lions are once again stocked with talent:  DB/WR Dedrick Stanley II, RB Thadius Franklin, WR/DB Ronny Boudreu,  WR Jordan Cash, OL/DL Willie Moise, OL/DL Joseph Habinowski, WR/S Elijah Cannon, WR/DBJosh Jenkins,  DE Jamal Johnson all hold power 5 offers or are committed to a power 5 school.

2) Clearwater Central Catholic (12-1): For the 2nd year in a row the Marauders only loss came to Chaminade-Madonna. Outside of the two losses to the Lions, the Marauders have taken their program to the next level to the tune of a 44-5 record since 2015.  While the Marauders graduate QB Rory Hicks,  WR JerJuan Newton WR Brett Seither, DT Kennedy Roberts the Marauders are probably in the best position of any 3A team going into 2019 due to the amount of depth they are returning including their entire offensive line and 8 out of 11 on defense. CCC also returns numerous college prospects highlighted by RB/DT Jerzhan Newton,  WR/DB/RB Makkah Jordan,  LB/RB Melvin Jordan,  WR/CB Giacarlo Margareho, WR/CB Brandon Kennedy, OL/DL Kayson Romalle, Ol/DL Isaiah Edwards and LB Harrison Thomas.

3) West Palm Beach King's Academy (11-2): The Lions of King's Academy were a trendy top 5 pick early in the season, but after an exciting regular season and a tremendous playoff run they are a top 3 team in 3A to me. The Lions deserve credit for being the only team in 3A score a TD on Chaminade's defense and are a very well coached team. Expect to see quite a few of the Lions players on the all-state team including Qb Justin Wake.   Looking into the future, King's could make another run in 2019. While they lose some big time seniors, they have some strong leadership coming back with Issac Scroggins, Presley Almond, Jayvon Wynn and a few stout linemen also returning.

4) American Heritage Delray (9-4):  The Stallions return to powerhouse status is well on its way thanks in part to a strong 2018 campaign. The Stallions had some big time wins early in the year against Belen Jesuit, Monsignor Pace and Pensacola Catholic. The losses to University School and Glades Central were expected, but the loss to Bishop Verot still confuses me. The Stallions will be hit hard due to graduation going into 2019 particularly with the graduation of DE Mike Morris, Dallis Small and a few others; however, the Stallions return a fair bit as well going into 2019 including QB Zach Bohannon, Jamal Potts and Hayden Griers.  

5) Florida High School (8-4): The Seminoles were the early season favorite to get to Orlando and came within 2 points of achieving that goal. The Seminoles were one of the teams impacted by hurricane Michael midway through the season, but despite coming up short the season was still capped with a second consecutive regional championship. The Seminoles should be good going into 2019. Like most other 3A programs, they lose a fair amount to graduation but have enough to be a playoff worthy team going into 2019 behind Willie Taggart Jr and a host of other talented play makers.

If I were rounding out a top 10, this is how it would look:

6) Tampa Berkeley Prep- Regional Final run for the Bucs. Josh Youngblood lived up to the hype. Good team coming back in 2019.
7) Orlando First Academy- Regional Final run coming up short 1 point. Strong season for the Royals.
8) Pensacola Catholic- All eyes will be on the Crusaders who, if they stay in 3A, will be a top 5 team in many individuals eyes.
9) Baldwin- Excellent season for the Indians. Likely moving to 1A.
10) Tampa Catholic- Crusaders bring a lot back in 2019. Will they be 3A or 4A?

---------------
With the season done questions have already risen about 2019. The truth is I cannot project 2019 since we do not even know who will be and will not be in class 3A next year. I will respond to a few questions I've received though

1) Will Jacksonville Trinity Christian return to 3A?

JaxTCA won 4 championships in a row in 3A before moving to 5A. JaxTCA moved to 5A since they could not fill a 10 game schedule in 3A without significant travel. In 5A they are placed in a district which automatically gave them 5 games.  JaxTCA may not have won a state championship in 5A (yet), but they've consistently been a top ranked program in 5A. JaxTCA could return to 3A, but they will run into the same problem they had 2 years ago. Who will play them to fill a 10 game schedule.   My guess? They remain in 5A got now.

2) Will Chaminade move to 4A or 5A?

Chaminade-Madonna has now been to 3 consecutive state championships and won 2 in a row. Many, many individuals are calling for them to move to 4A to face more competition.  In reality, I see them remaining in 3A. Unlike Jacksonville Trinity who moved up due to not being able to fill a 10 game schedule- Chaminade can fill a 10 game schedule and remain in 3A if they choose, but their schedule will be ugly. It would probably end up being a schedule that looks like Miami Central, AH-P, Deerfield, Booker T, Miramar, Columbus and other powerhouses.   Chaminade is graduating 23 seniors off of a 44 player varsity roster. Depending on who you believe, everybody in Miami is pounding the doors down to transfer to Chaminade. Just spending 5 minutes on twitter and the rumor mill is going crazy.

My guess? Chaminade remains in 3A. There's no value in them moving to 4A since it doesn't solve the scheduling issue, thus they would need to move to 5A for some relief. I do not think the 2019 version of Chaminade, even with transfers and what they have returning, would be a great 5A team, they would just be another team in the mix. The reality though is that AH-D, the only team capable of competing with Chaminade in region 4-3A is likely to be in 4A next year thus Chaminade would not face any resistance what-so-ever until the state semi finals.

3) Who will and will not remain in 3A?

No clue! We have no idea where the new cutoffs will be and we won't know until 12/21. My guesses? Baldwin, Taylor County, Ft. White move to 1A and a few of the lesser successful private schools in region 4 elect to go independent.  Pensacola Catholic might be forced to move to 5A if that happens because their closest 3A region team would be Florida High in Tallahassee.

Tampa Catholic and American Heritage are 4A schools based on the current cutoffs and I'm thinking will be 4A schools in 2019/2020, but if all the public schools go to 1A as reported by BigBendPreps the FHSAA will need to drastically alter the cutoffs for 3A due to lack of teams. The current cutoff is 291-680. I do NOT have the student population reports for 2018, but my best guesstimate would be cutoffs of 330-745ish as the cutoffs for 2019/2020. That would likely keep Tampa Catholic in 3A as the biggest 3A team, but American Heritage in 4A.


I'll post on this thread again when tentative classifications are released!





 

According to numerous respected individuals who cover HS sports which includes our own Josh Wilson the FHSAA is not going to let teams appeal to move up or down in classification as in years past. Once you receive your classification, that's it- no appeals.

What isn't known is if there was a "commitment" application that a team would commit to playing in a specific class. In other words, JaxTCA could have provided a student enrollment number and said 'We want to play in 5A in 2019 and 2020' but once the commitment was sent it, it could not be appealed or changed, it would be binding.

Others have indicated that the classification system as far as how it's been used in the past is getting shaken up substantially since the FHSAA took a deep, hard look at each classification. 

There's a lot of questions and not a lot of answers or people 'in the know' willing to talk right now. I guess we'll all wait until the weekend and find out ourselves!