Metro vs Non Metro

[Floridaatlantic1]

After looking at each possible division. Here is a simple breakdown of who the state champs will be every year.

Metro 1    Jax Trinity or Champagnat                  Suburban- Madison

           2 Miami central or Cardinal gibbons                              Victory Christian or John Carrol

           3  St. Thomas Aquinas or Northwestern                        Cocoa every year- no competition at all and might win by 100

           4 Apopka versus Columbus  yearly                                Mainland , St, Augustine , or Naples

                                                                                                      Venice / Osceola classic yearly

Please explain how this will lead to great Parity. There will be less. I would bet these team listed above win 95% of the next 2 year state championships. Heck, don't even bother playing the season. Just play the state championships week 1 and let all other contests be scrimmages like the spring games.  The private schools will win 4 to 5 state championship a year. Easy solution is to place privates in own division and move teams up and down divisions based on success or failure. Too hard for the FHSAA to figure out.   

 

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

After looking at each possible division. Here is a simple breakdown of who the state champs will be every year.

Metro 1    Jax Trinity or Champagnat                  Suburban- Madison

           2 Miami central or Cardinal gibbons                              Victory Christian or John Carrol

           3  St. Thomas Aquinas or Northwestern                        Cocoa every year- no competition at all and might win by 100

           4 Apopka versus Columbus  yearly                                Mainland , St, Augustine , or Naples

                                                                                                      Venice / Osceola classic yearly

Please explain how this will lead to great Parity. There will be less. I would bet these team listed above win 95% of the next 2 year state championships. Heck, don't even bother playing the season. Just play the state championships week 1 and let all other contests be scrimmages like the spring games.  The private schools will win 4 to 5 state championship a year. Easy solution is to place privates in own division and move teams up and down divisions based on success or failure. Too hard for the FHSAA to figure out.   

 

We're is chaminade Madonna. And Cocoa somebody else will challenge them . 

[Floridaatlantic1]

Sorry add Chaminade to whatever division they are in. Just trying to show point that the whole idea is to create parity but will still have same state champs every year in same division but you will get more blowouts in districts because you are putting teams in same district who have vastly different enrollments. Not even adding fact of the recruiting teams advantages.  

[h8r]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

After looking at each possible division. Here is a simple breakdown of who the state champs will be every year.

Metro 1    Jax Trinity or Champagnat                  Suburban- Madison

           2 Miami central or Cardinal gibbons                              Victory Christian or John Carrol

           3  St. Thomas Aquinas or Northwestern                        Cocoa every year- no competition at all and might win by 100

           4 Apopka versus Columbus  yearly                                Mainland , St, Augustine , or Naples

                                                                                                      Venice / Osceola classic yearly

Please explain how this will lead to great Parity. There will be less. I would bet these team listed above win 95% of the next 2 year state championships. Heck, don't even bother playing the season. Just play the state championships week 1 and let all other contests be scrimmages like the spring games.  The private schools will win 4 to 5 state championship a year. Easy solution is to place privates in own division and move teams up and down divisions based on success or failure. Too hard for the FHSAA to figure out.   

 

the suburban side, I think your forgetting all the polk county schools....and daytona area schools.  some real good football played in both spots, mainland, lake gibson, lakeland, kathleen, new smyrna,  

and some of it is going to be, how the 260 schools are split into 4 classes, sure roughly 70 per class, I get that, but the FTE numbers are where its going to be tricky.  having a 2k school with a 3k student school, doesnt make much sense, and 1 of those proposed I saw that several places.

the way I see it, its about competitive balance, yes, but it also give some of those schools a shot to make the playoffs, who may never ever get a chance the other way.  now does that mean they are deserving.  well, thats a different story

 

[h8r]

4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

One last point. The metro suburban plan does not address the private school dominance issue at all. They will continue to win most of the state championships.

but it kinda does though....those powerhouse privates are in the metro plan(for the most part).  which is where they should be.  nobody wants to see sta play podunk county in round 1 of the playoffs....or 2 or 3....

[Floridaatlantic1]

The elite teams will crush everyone else just like always. Separate the Private schools into own divisions and then do competitive shuffling for rest of state and you will get rue parity and the recruiting power houses get to destroy each other instead of the schools that do not cheat or do not have advantage or 7 d- 1 recruits magically appearing at their school  for academic reasons.

[h8r]

1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The elite teams will crush everyone else just like always. Separate the Private schools into own divisions and then do competitive shuffling for rest of state and you will get rue parity and the recruiting power houses get to destroy each other instead of the schools that do not cheat or do not have advantage or 7 d- 1 recruits magically appearing at their school  for academic reasons.

you honestly think that the privates are the major recruiters?  I have a bridge I like to sell ya then.....

the metro schools are the absolute worst kept secrets at "school choice" recruiting.  just read some of the posts here.....this coach, this player, this player, etc.....I can think of a school or 5 in each metro county that has more d1,2,3, etc kids on their football team that dont belong to them than their own d1,2,3 kid.

the problem isnt privates, while it is a problem in itself that they are lumped with public, the problem is school choice.....if fhsaa would hammer down and say, live here go here or dont play, add in the 365 day transfer rule like previoulsy mentioned, that stops all of it.  move or not, cant play for a year.

[Floridaatlantic1]

No i do not think that privates are the only one to recruit. They just win most of the state championships. The public schools in major area recruit like crazy and usually one school becomes the it school and they all flock there. Sort of like Miami Central,   Jax Lee,  Naples ,  Lakeland. Dr. Phillips.  That why the football factory schools should be moved into same class according to win percentage and playoff results. If you do that, then no reason to separate private schools.  Have all football factories playing each other. Place other schools in the rest of the divisions by wins as well and move teams up and down every two years. Sort of like international soccer leagues do it..  

[Perspective]

52 minutes ago, h8r said:

if fhsaa would hammer down and say, live here go here or dont play, add in the 365 day transfer rule like previoulsy mentioned, that stops all of it.  move or not, cant play for a year.

You do understand that the state legislature essentially told the FHSAA that they could not do this, don't you?  

[h8r]

50 minutes ago, Perspective said:

You do understand that the state legislature essentially told the FHSAA that they could not do this, don't you?  

I do know that, only because of the polk county crap that happend.  

its BS man, 365 transfer rule used to be the norm.  and it stopped this silly stuff of kids playing for 3 teams in 4 years because " i want to play linebacker and coach been sleeping on me"  and ends up playing DE....lol

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, h8r said:

I do know that, only because of the polk county crap that happend.  

its BS man, 365 transfer rule used to be the norm.  and it stopped this silly stuff of kids playing for 3 teams in 4 years because " i want to play linebacker and coach been sleeping on me"  and ends up playing DE....lol

Yeah, I don't mind folks ragging on the FHSAA when it's warranted.  And it often is.   But in the case of school choice/free transfer, I feel compelled to remind people that the state legislature made the bed that the FHSAA now lies in.  And, yes, the folks from Polk were right there fluffing up the pillows.   

 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Yeah, I don't mind folks ragging on the FHSAA when it's warranted.  And it often is.   But in the case of school choice/free transfer, I feel compelled to remind people that the state legislature made the bed that the FHSAA now lies in.  And, yes, the folks from Polk were right there fluffing up the pillows.   

 

Let's keep it factual as you like to say and not smear the schools in Polk with a wide brush.  It was basically one school in that county that got their state representative to push this legislation thru.  This new plan probably makes it easier for that school to continue winning more state titles thru "Transfers" at the expense of others.

[Perspective]

10 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Let's keep it factual as you like to say and not smear the schools in Polk with a wide brush.  It was basically one school in that county that got their state representative to push this legislation thru.  This new plan probably makes it easier for that school to continue winning more state titles thru "Transfers" at the expense of others.

Point well taken.  How's this edited version?   "And, yes, the 'Naughty' folks from Polk were right there fluffing up the pillows."   

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:27 PM, Jesse said:

Those schools choose to not participate. Plenty of guys in 1A schools. I would agree if it was like 100 kids total in schools. But it's 300 to 400. That's more than enough for 50 guys per 1a schools. 

You make a decent point, but it’s not really fair that Madison County is able to draw from their charter school through a loophole to gain players for athletic reasons. Schools like Union County, Baker, and others in 1A can’t really compete with Madison because their enrollment numbers are so small in comparison. They don’t have the best equipment or players because they have to suffer the unfortunate poverty of being a “small school.” Now I’m not saying this as an ad hominem or to disparage Madison, because the issue exists outside of 1A as well. Hallandale in 5A was pillaged by neighboring STA, Dillard, and the Miami schools last year and could barely get a team on the field; much less have a winning season. So that’s why having less classes and more schools in each class is so vital to the sport. Traditional 1A schools could finally compete for a state championship without getting thwomped by a figurative dragon in the pond, and private schools would have more competition with bigger publics stepping up to challenge them more frequently.

On a lighter note, I’d like to acknowledge that while the metro/rural argument does hold merit, this ideology is not the only cause of the problem. Private schools hand out scholarships like candy nowadays and make it unbelievably easy, almost effortless, to play for a winning team. It’s a hard case to argue but I think that scholarships should be merit based, not simply because kids want to play for a better football team. This is part of the reason why private schools are so dominant: they have unbelievable resources that many others do not have access to. Divvying up the classes and making private schools play publics that are at least capable of challenging them (I.e, Central or Northwestern for STA,) would increase competition and severely decrease the likelihood that blowout scores like 56-0 would become the norm. The playoffs in 1A and 7A would finally become competitive again, and schools that were previously basement dwellers would have a chance to make their names at least heard, if nothing else. Just food for thought.

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

You make a decent point, but it’s not really fair that Madison County is able to draw from their charter school through a loophole to gain players for athletic reasons. Schools like Union County, Baker, and others in 1A can’t really compete with Madison because their enrollment numbers are so small in comparison. They don’t have the best equipment or players because they have to suffer the unfortunate poverty of being a “small school.” Now I’m not saying this as an ad hominem or to disparage Madison, because the issue exists outside of 1A as well. Hallandale in 5A was pillaged by neighboring STA, Dillard, and the Miami schools last year and could barely get a team on the field; much less have a winning season. So that’s why having less classes and more schools in each class is so vital to the sport. Traditional 1A schools could finally compete for a state championship without getting thwomped by a figurative dragon in the pond, and private schools would have more competition with bigger publics stepping up to challenge them more frequently.

On a lighter note, I’d like to acknowledge that while the metro/rural argument does hold merit, this ideology is not the only cause of the problem. Private schools hand out scholarships like candy nowadays and make it unbelievably easy, almost effortless, to play for a winning team. It’s a hard case to argue but I think that scholarships should be merit based, not simply because kids want to play for a better football team. This is part of the reason why private schools are so dominant: they have unbelievable resources that many others do not have access to. Divvying up the classes and making private schools play publics that are at least capable of challenging them (I.e, Central or Northwestern for STA,) would increase competition and severely decrease the likelihood that blowout scores like 56-0 would become the norm. The playoffs in 1A and 7A would finally become competitive again, and schools that were previously basement dwellers would have a chance to make their names at least heard, if nothing else. Just food for thought.

It's not the charter school.  It's greenville fl a small town in Madison County that makes Madison who they are. I guarantee greenville if they had a football team would win state . Madison County without greenville is a normal 1A team. Population 840 , I should have said this in the beginning but stop saying its not right for Madison to be 1A. Them kids work hard they best player is at lowndes starting bc he wants to make it out.  Madison just has a different mindset or I should just call it how it is really greenville is getting the credit I'm a fan of greenville.  I been so caught up in Madison. But greenville is the source of the talent in Madison County.  Population 840. So I will say greenville football for now on. So greenville put 42 on trinity christian . 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

21 minutes ago, Jesse said:

It's not the charter school.  It's greenville fl a small town in Madison County that makes Madison who they are. I guarantee greenville if they had a football team would win state . Madison County without greenville is a normal 1A team. Population 840 , I should have said this in the beginning but stop saying its not right for Madison to be 1A. Them kids work hard they best player is at lowndes starting bc he wants to make it out.  Madison just has a different mindset or I should just call it how it is really greenville is getting the credit I'm a fan of greenville.  I been so caught up in Madison. But greenville is the source of the talent in Madison County.  Population 840. So I will say greenville football for now on. So greenville put 42 on trinity christian . 

I gotta respect Jesse. That dude will be getting his a** kicked and still find a way to throw in some jabs.

[VeniceIndianFan]

8 hours ago, Jesse said:

It's not the charter school.  It's greenville fl a small town in Madison County that makes Madison who they are. I guarantee greenville if they had a football team would win state . Madison County without greenville is a normal 1A team. Population 840 , I should have said this in the beginning but stop saying its not right for Madison to be 1A. Them kids work hard they best player is at lowndes starting bc he wants to make it out.  Madison just has a different mindset or I should just call it how it is really greenville is getting the credit I'm a fan of greenville.  I been so caught up in Madison. But greenville is the source of the talent in Madison County.  Population 840. So I will say greenville football for now on. So greenville put 42 on trinity christian . 

I have no quarrel with Madison County. It’s just easy to point at 1A to describe where the problem is with class sizes. The issue isn’t only in 1A. Hallandale, North Port, Bayshore, Dr. Krop, and Fort Lauderdale have all exhibited issues of being pillaged by neighboring schools on top of having to play schools outside of their enrollment numbers and it has to stop. This isn’t a competitive blueprint. Notice how none of the 5 schools I listed are in 1A and have nothing to do with Madison County. As I already alluded to, the issue exists outside of 1A as my previous examples illustrated with all holding 5A status or higher.

So as stated before, Madison County isn’t the only culprit. I’m sorry if anything I said seemed derisive or alluded to ad hominem in any way. To be crystal clear, such vile rhetoric is not my intention. It’s just easy to point fingers at the big fish in the pond when an issue arises.

[CoachK]

After reading everyone’s comments, I am confident that this metro/suburban plan is trash.  The best idea I’ve heard would be to keep them together and just promote/demote yearly.  There are plenty of large metro schools that have no chance against many other large metro and should be moved down.  Eventually you would see the best teams in the state competing against each other which will lead to a more level playing field. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

Here is what will happen when this idiot plan passes. The same teams will win state just like now but the regular season matchups in district will be even more tilted lopsided games because teams are being put into larger divisions with larger discrepancies in enrollment and recruiting level.  The. Many teams will leave FHSAA in football and be independent.  What other option do teams that don’t recruit have? The suburban schools will then complain when their divisions are dominated by same teams and ask for a new country metro suburban plan. 

[Jesse]

48 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Here is what will happen when this idiot plan passes. The same teams will win state just like now but the regular season matchups in district will be even more tilted lopsided games because teams are being put into larger divisions with larger discrepancies in enrollment and recruiting level.  The. Many teams will leave FHSAA in football and be independent.  What other option do teams that don’t recruit have? The suburban schools will then complain when their divisions are dominated by same teams and ask for a new country metro suburban plan. 

Yeah,  welcome to Florida aka nfl highschool, college high , teams gotta suck it up and just play.  Go cowboys and lowndes vikings 

[BigBoyBall]

I need clarity, I don't know how true this is but a friend that work for OCPS stated to me that they have Pahokee in the draw up as Metro? He knows I am a Pahokee fan and I hope he was joking! Heck, even the term suburban does not fit the Glades area! If this idiot idea pass, will classification be based on county status or actual geographical location as determined by the census? 

Census: Pahokee - rural/agricultural/economic disadvantaged.

Muck City (South Bay, Pahokee, and Belle Glade) Top 5 poorest cities in Florida. 

This metro thing must be a joke!

 

 

[Nulli Secundus]

3 hours ago, BigBoyBall said:

I need clarity, I don't know how true this is but a friend that work for OCPS stated to me that they have Pahokee in the draw up as Metro? He knows I am a Pahokee fan and I hope he was joking! Heck, even the term suburban does not fit the Glades area! If this idiot idea pass, will classification be based on county status or actual geographical location as determined by the census? 

Census: Pahokee - rural/agricultural/economic disadvantaged.

Muck City (South Bay, Pahokee, and Belle Glade) Top 5 poorest cities in Florida. 

This metro thing must be a joke!

 

 

Metro is designated by county of a certain population.  Looking at the counties that make up the proposed metro league, the cut off was Duval county population at 995,567.  As for Muck City, being located in Palm Beach county makes them part of the million plus club.

[Jesse]

6 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Metro is designated by county of a certain population.  Looking at the counties that make up the proposed metro league, the cut off was Duval county population at 995,567.  As for Muck City, being located in Palm Beach county makes them part of the million plus club.

Madison will be 1A still yes unlimited rings

[Perspective]

23 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Madison will be 1A still yes unlimited rings

Wait, you mean to tell me that Madison's not in a Metro area?  

[SFLfootball]

With what was shared around Broward to get feedback from ADs, Pahokee was with suburban. Had them placed in Suburban 1A region 4 with Hawthorne, Bronson, Trenton, Fort Meade, Wildwood, Chiefland, PK Yonge , Newberry, Crescent City, Williston.