Jon Santucci crying in print about his team not having chance to win a fake (suburban) state championship

[Floridaatlantic1]

It’s not hard to move to 15 per cent of each  class up and lowest 15 per cent down after each year with ratings. 
I feel like people are not understanding my point. The same 12 schools will always win suburban so who is really benefiting from this whole change.  Those schools just make semi finals now. 90 per cent of all schools have zero chance of a state. Championship so why screw them over so a semi finalist can win state. Who cares about those poor semi finalist when most schools will be hurt by this. Check out poor George Jenkins proposed district. That will happen in both metro and suburban squeezing three division into one. 

[Ray Icaza]

57 minutes ago, Joshua Wilson said:

Yes there are in fact a few of those, but also it is not just being out in the middle of "nowhere." You realize Indian River County is 31st in population in the state yet has an 8A school in Vero Beach? Think about that for a second.

They like others (not naming names) including my Alma Mater would prefer dealing with those teams (8A) than STA every year.

[Jesse]

56 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

They like others (not naming names) including my Alma Mater would prefer dealing with those teams (8A) than STA every year.

Yes madison will win with the smallest population. Just imagine madison with Tallahassee population. 

[Joshua Wilson]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

It’s not hard to move to 15 per cent of each  class up and lowest 15 per cent down after each year with ratings. 
I feel like people are not understanding my point. The same 12 schools will always win suburban so who is really benefiting from this whole change.  Those schools just make semi finals now. 90 per cent of all schools have zero chance of a state. Championship so why screw them over so a semi finalist can win state. Who cares about those poor semi finalist when most schools will be hurt by this. Check out poor George Jenkins proposed district. That will happen in both metro and suburban squeezing three division into one. 

All you are doing at that point is shifting one group of teams up and moving another down just basically putting teams that don't move right back into the same situation with a different group of teams. Football is not soccer. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

The elite teams will all end up together. Many states are doing it now.  Some multiply number of transfers and success to higher classifications. Fhsaa will never put privates in own divisions which would help.  

[nolebull813]

Wait so the main argument is to water down the classes so more teams that weren’t very good have a better chance of winning? So they don’t have to get better, you just change the rules where it appears they do. 
 

that’s the most ass backwards logic I’ve ever heard. 
 

The problem isn’t metro, suburban, public or private. The problem is coaching and staff pay because with the lack of money and resources there is extremely high turnover which makes it extremely difficult to build and maintain a quality football program. 
 

watering down the classes even more to make one or two more teams feel good about winning some participation trophy is definitely not the answer

[Floridaatlantic1]

Nole, you are exactly right. the funny part is it will really only help really great teams who get to the semis and quarterfinals already but just cant win state. They will win the fake state suburban title but screw many more schools who will be forced to cram 8 division into 4 in the metro areas. This junk idea ignores the real issue in the state which is recruiting. How about this. Create a 9th division of any team that gets over 4 transfers in a year and privates schools and that will let the cheaters and recruiters beat each other up instead of on the rest of the state schools who don't cheat. Problem solved. The state legislature might be taking over the whole thing in a year or two anyway and that will create a true chaos of each state rep trying to help their schools. fun times ahead. . 

[nolebull813]

The funny thing is you couldn’t even call them state championships anymore. You would have to call them the Metro and Suburban champ. 
 

Kinda like the Tri-County champs during the Covid year in South Florida 

[PinellasFB]

The metro vs rural solution offers a solution without identifying a root cause.  The problem is not metro areas but transfers.  We all know that.  The teams that win titles steal players from other teams.  Fix that problem and you fix everything.  Related to this is the private school vs public school advantage.  Have a separate private school playoff and  you take care of nearly 90% of the problem.

[Joshua Wilson]

35 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

The metro vs rural solution offers a solution without identifying a root cause.  The problem is not metro areas but transfers.  We all know that.  The teams that win titles steal players from other teams.  Fix that problem and you fix everything.  Related to this is the private school vs public school advantage.  Have a separate private school playoff and  you take care of nearly 90% of the problem.

The problem is the state legislature has taken all the teeth away from the FHSAA from doing that. There is only so much the FHSAA can do. They can't stop kids from moving around. If you all want to start somewhere, do some research on who you are electing to Tallahassee from your area. Ballot box does matter here.

[Floridaatlantic1]

The FHSAA could put privates into own divisions and that would solve most of the issue and than move teams up who are in top 15% every year so eventually all the cheaters get to play in same division and crush each other to win state. 

[Ray Icaza]

5 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The FHSAA could put privates into own divisions and that would solve most of the issue and than move teams up who are in top 15% every year so eventually all the cheaters get to play in same division and crush each other to win state. 

Wow, now if you happen to have continuity at your HS, blessed with good coach/staff, excellent youth program and established tradition but reside in the top 15% you accuse that program of cheating.  Pitiful comment from a bottom dweller.

[Floridaatlantic1]

Everyone knows Osceola gets transfers from the entire county and have a awesome program. You should be playing the St Thomas, Apopka, Miami Centrals, Northwestern, Venice, Chaminades of the world. Not every program cheats but most of the great ones do. They cherry pick players from the whole county and say its continuity that makes you great please. How many of your players should be at Poinciana or Harmony or Lake t, or Celebration. What a joke. 

[nolebull813]

29 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Everyone knows Osceola gets transfers from the entire county and have a awesome program. You should be playing the St Thomas, Apopka, Miami Centrals, Northwestern, Venice, Chaminades of the world. Not every program cheats but most of the great ones do. They cherry pick players from the whole county and say its continuity that makes you great please. How many of your players should be at Poinciana or Harmony or Lake t, or Celebration. What a joke. 

It’s no coincidence that Osceola County has like 8 high schools and 7 of them are HOT GARBAGE!!!!! 

[Jesse]

51 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Everyone knows Osceola gets transfers from the entire county and have a awesome program. You should be playing the St Thomas, Apopka, Miami Centrals, Northwestern, Venice, Chaminades of the world. Not every program cheats but most of the great ones do. They cherry pick players from the whole county and say its continuity that makes you great please. How many of your players should be at Poinciana or Harmony or Lake t, or Celebration. What a joke. 

Why can't teams develop the kids in there schools or county.  Why they have to get people from everywhere else. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

6 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Why can't teams develop the kids in there schools or county.  Why they have to get people from everywhere else. 

Every strong program obtains a few transfers, though. Some of it is unfair, sure; however, schools in generally metro populations are the main culprits due to ease of access. Most athletic directors I’ve talked to will tell you they’re “homegrown” and while some aspects of that statement are true, most of the time they do obtain 4-5 transfers a year; some major contributors, some not. 

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Everyone knows Osceola gets transfers from the entire county and have a awesome program. You should be playing the St Thomas, Apopka, Miami Centrals, Northwestern, Venice, Chaminades of the world. Not every program cheats but most of the great ones do. They cherry pick players from the whole county and say its continuity that makes you great please. How many of your players should be at Poinciana or Harmony or Lake t, or Celebration. What a joke. 

You are the joke as the handful of transfers we get are minimal, some don't even start and if you have followed my comments we had 4 players transferred out of OHS to Orange county schools and all started for them; 2 running backs, a QB and starting MLB last year alone (2021).  They impacted the success of those schools that they went to.  I also mentioned in previous comments that over the past couple of decades we have gotten maybe 2, 3 or 4 players in total from St. Cloud or Harmony that had any impact on our program.  We get virtually zero from that side of the county.  All you do is hurl idiotic insinuations that you know nothing about.

 

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

It’s no coincidence that Osceola County has like 8 high schools and 7 of them are HOT GARBAGE!!!!! 

Obvious why part of your handle is bull.  We challenged for our first title in 1982, no tranfers.  Won first state title 1998, no transfers.  Had championship caliber in 2006 (lost to eventual champ Lakeland 7-3) and went to state final vs STA following year of 2007 all before the transfer situation got out of line in 2011.  Most other Osceola schools were mediocre at best way back then and thru the present.   Over the years we have accumulated almost 50 playoff wins while the rest of the county has maybe 4 or 5 combined thru their history.  This desire to have a championship caliber football team existed back in the 60's when I was a Kowboy.  We've gone thru periods of poor coaching decisions, lack of talent, etc. that produced weak teams but the culture from when I was there was to excel.   So your theory is ALL BULL!

[Jesse]

33 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Obvious why part of your handle is bull.  We challenged for our first title in 1982, no tranfers.  Won first state title 1998, no transfers.  Had championship caliber in 2006 (lost to eventual champ Lakeland 7-3) and went to state final vs STA following year of 2007 all before the transfer situation got out of line in 2011.  Most other Osceola schools were mediocre at best way back then and thru the present.   Over the years we have accumulated almost 50 playoff wins while the rest of the county has maybe 4 or 5 combined thru their history.  This desire to have a championship caliber football team existed back in the 60's when I was a Kowboy.  We've gone thru periods of poor coaching decisions, lack of talent, etc. that produced weak teams but the culture from when I was there was to excel.   So your theory is ALL BULL!

It's cowboy buddy 41-6 never forget.  And yall the best in a huge county lol,  madison really beating counties lets go 

[Floridaatlantic1]

The Kowboys are awesome but come on.  The rest of teams in entire county are beyond bad.  The suburb plan will help you win lots of fake state championships when Venice comes down to earth.  Suburb plan is dumb and helps few has been my main point. Does not solve true recruiting issue. 

[Ray Icaza]

3 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Every strong program obtains a few transfers, though. Some of it is unfair, sure; however, schools in generally metro populations are the main culprits due to ease of access. Most athletic directors I’ve talked to will tell you they’re “homegrown” and while some aspects of that statement are true, most of the time they do obtain 4-5 transfers a year; some major contributors, some not. 

Wholeheartedly agree with this characterization, as we fit into the 4-5 transfers per year.  Some are "Legacy" players and grow up in a home that have a couple of generations of Kowboys.  Case in point, is our starting LT Jimmarion McCrimon (started as a freshmen).  He was born in Kissimmee and I don't know if he is zoned for OHS.  His grandfather played both football and basketball but concentrated on basketball starting his junior year, losing to the eventual state champ out of Ocala in 1982 in the regional final in OT.  The following year they went 37-0, state basketball champs in 1983.  His son, "Little Jimmy" played DE on our state championship football team in 1998 and earned a basketball scholarship as well.  This third generation McCrimon plays both varsity football and basketball.  This heritage is repeated with kids with the last name of Green, Brown, Jenkins, Bell, Anderson, Baker, Pinellas, Mascoe and many, many others which are too numerous to list.  We bleed Blue and Gold. They carry on the tradition I previously alluded to which the newer kids in our county populating the newer schools don't have.  They are also 60% Puerto Rican like us with another 10-12% other hispanics which aren't into football.  This explains the lack of any consistent success at most other HS, not our school raiding their best players.  Outsiders looking in have no idea of this dynamic and want to attribute our success in football to cheating, recruiting and any other excuse in the rainbow to justify their own underperforming teams.  Sad commentary as damn the facts, they are locked into their narrative.

[VeniceIndianFan]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The Kowboys are awesome but come on.  The rest of teams in entire county are beyond bad.  The suburb plan will help you win lots of fake state championships when Venice comes down to earth.  Suburb plan is dumb and helps few has been my main point. Does not solve true recruiting issue. 

Recruiting is illegal on all fronts in HSFB. The military recruits. Not high school football programs. Osceola does not recruit; kids want to play for that program because they are winners. Hard to fault them for that. I might be young but I still remember there being a time when Venice could be considered a rural town. Although we have gained a younger population in the past 8-10 years we are still primarily a retirement community that has become more juvenile in recent years. Like we said, all winners get a few transfers. It’s not fair but life isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. You have to make yourself look appealing in order to garner appreciation. Build a program and compete. 

[Jambun82]

9 hours ago, Joshua Wilson said:

The problem is the state legislature has taken all the teeth away from the FHSAA from doing that. There is only so much the FHSAA can do. They can't stop kids from moving around. If you all want to start somewhere, do some research on who you are electing to Tallahassee from your area. Ballot box does matter here.

I am very disappointed to read that you have typed this Josh.  

[Tigerskin]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:44 PM, Floridaatlantic1 said:

It’s not hard to move to 15 per cent of each  class up and lowest 15 per cent down after each year with ratings. 
I feel like people are not understanding my point. The same 12 schools will always win suburban so who is really benefiting from this whole change.  Those schools just make semi finals now. 90 per cent of all schools have zero chance of a state. Championship so why screw them over so a semi finalist can win state. Who cares about those poor semi finalist when most schools will be hurt by this. Check out poor George Jenkins proposed district. That will happen in both metro and suburban squeezing three division into one. 

Agree the best way is to move up the top 15% and move down the bottom 15%.The proponents say the Metro/Suburban is to bring competitive  balance yet Madison can stay 1A and will win State every year or is the competitive balance only for the schools who are pushing this. I know i would like to see the true rural 1A schools pull out and start their on thing.I heard if they try to go Districts a lot of 1A schools will just go Independent. Do you know how many schools have to be in a class for them to have a State Series? The only 1A schools who can stay on the field with Madison are the ones who get in a lot of Transfers and we all know what happened to Trenton but that was their only chance to stay on the field with them.

[Tigerskin]

23 hours ago, Joshua Wilson said:

All you are doing at that point is shifting one group of teams up and moving another down just basically putting teams that don't move right back into the same situation with a different group of teams. Football is not soccer. 

But when the teams move up ,the next year will be a whole new group of teams make the playoffs in that class which would bring more of the balance everybody is asking for.