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Metro/Suburban Plan voted on. PASSED


Nulli Secundus

Metro/Suburban Plan  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the Metro Plan Pass or Fail??

    • New plan will pass?
      8
    • New plan will fail?
      4
    • Vote will be postponed?
      3

This poll is closed to new votes

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  • Poll closed on 03/01/2022 at 11:00 PM

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On 3/1/2022 at 4:10 PM, Ray Icaza said:

We will compete in whatever format is dictated to us as Osceola has seldom had much of a voice in any policy making by the FHSAA.  I do not agreed that the bottom third of your plan playing for a championship would beat current regional champs of any of the current classifications as we have a lot of lousy teams out there, so we have a difference of opinion in that regard.  As I have repeatedly said, the available options to fix the real problem of TEAM CHOICE (Perspective's term) are non-existent.  This plan won't and neither will yours.   Yours will make about 250 pitiful programs very happy.

I guess I would rather make 250 happy than the 15 or so programs that this new program makes happy. I think sports should be enjoyed by all and how they enjoy it is going to be different for everyone. Some schools/communities want to compete on a very high level. They are year round programs, they started in 6th grade and continue through 12th. They view football as a way onto the next level (college). I think that is great.

I also recognize there are lots of programs, who aren't that level of committed and even if you gave them the best coaches at these top level schools, they aren't becoming elite programs. They simply don't have the school/community support, the demographics, or the money, but they recognize that football can be more than championships. It is about learning to play the sport, being part of the team, pushing yourself. If a championship happens to be involved, great, but for many of these type of programs they are happy to play 10 games and maybe win some, let them compete for a championship, I promise you, we have given state championships to teams that would be worse than the winners of my lowest classification, and if we do so what? Does it really take away from your school's potential state championship? If so, how? 

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Hi Gatorman.  Nice post above. You nailed it. 85 to 90% of schools know they are not going to win a state championship.  My school does not recruit but has had some good year and made playoffs. No chance to win state and we know it.  But we were in a district with comparable teams. Now this dumb plan puts two recruiting state powers in our district and we will lose by 40+.   The 2a metro is even worse than 3a. They crushed 8 divisions into 4 and made it impossible for any team that does not cheat or recruit to compete in metro so a few elects suburb teams who always get to semi finals can win.  That’s my problem with the plan. Helps few and hurts many. 

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Hillsborough High coach agrees with all of us that a simpler solution shouldve been private vs public.  I mean its so obvious that there has to be something else going on that prevented it, like good ol' boy network or someone got paid off.  

https://www.fox13news.com/sports/fhsaa-changes-football-classifications-but-did-they-fix-the-problem

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The one coach said it all . The plan was made by the suburb schools for the suburb schools and even had to play games to avoid their county being in the metro even though their population was higher than ones in the metro. Stinks of politics. The plans goal was to punish the few metro schools who cheat and win every state title. Most are from Miami Fort Lauderdale area but the other metro areas get punished for it. There was no consideration on how it would crush many schools in the metro 

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It’s a good thing we don’t have to deal with those pinnellas county annual state champions. Oh wait. No team has ever won one.  Nice suburb plan for them. They just got metro treatment where they get to get squeezed into four divisions and get to play the amazing Tampa catholic schools. WhT about level playing field for metro schools.  

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41 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Hi Gatorman.  Nice post above. You nailed it. 85 to 90% of schools know they are not going to win a state championship.  My school does not recruit but has had some good year and made playoffs. No chance to win state and we know it.  But we were in a district with comparable teams. Now this dumb plan puts two recruiting state powers in our district and we will lose by 40+.   The 2a metro is even worse than 3a. They crushed 8 divisions into 4 and made it impossible for any team that does not cheat or recruit to compete in metro so a few elects suburb teams who always get to semi finals can win.  That’s my problem with the plan. Helps few and hurts many. 

Your team is bad if you lose by 40 plus.  I mean terrible 

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On 2/28/2022 at 5:04 PM, Perspective said:

The plot thickens. 

Based on a cursory review of the FHSAA Board of Directors, Lee County has two representatives on the Board, while Seminole County has none.   The two Lee County members are Mr. Thomas Kenna (AD at Cape Coral H.S.) and Ms. Chris Patricca (a Lee County School Board member).   I'm just speculating, but perhaps the folks in Lee County didn't want to spend their limited post-season time driving southeast to get their butts kicked by South Florida teams on a regular basis and quietly figured out a way to slide into the Suburban group at the expense of Seminole. 

Or maybe I've just read too many John Grisham books over the years.  B)

Perspective, the article on this forum from Joshua does show how some of the board members voted.  So it would be a real convoluted Grisham novel to find evil intent from the Lee County Board Member, Ms. Patricca as she was a NO vote.  Meanwhile, Ralph Arza former coach, educator and state legislature out of Miami was one of the YES votes.  Too complicated a conspiracy for me to understand the ending.B)

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3 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

I guess I would rather make 250 happy than the 15 or so programs that this new program makes happy. I think sports should be enjoyed by all and how they enjoy it is going to be different for everyone. Some schools/communities want to compete on a very high level. They are year round programs, they started in 6th grade and continue through 12th. They view football as a way onto the next level (college). I think that is great.

I also recognize there are lots of programs, who aren't that level of committed and even if you gave them the best coaches at these top level schools, they aren't becoming elite programs. They simply don't have the school/community support, the demographics, or the money, but they recognize that football can be more than championships. It is about learning to play the sport, being part of the team, pushing yourself. If a championship happens to be involved, great, but for many of these type of programs they are happy to play 10 games and maybe win some, let them compete for a championship, I promise you, we have given state championships to teams that would be worse than the winners of my lowest classification, and if we do so what? Does it really take away from your school's potential state championship? If so, how? 

Thanks for putting forth some level headed reasoning in your argument, same as I have so we just need to agree to disagree.  Remember, there are approximately 500 high schools so a little Gator math leads me to believe the other 250 are also happy.  The other thing we can agree on is the split is pretty clear when most coaches were polled and maybe Joshua has the exact number; if my memory serves me right roughly 80% of Metro's were a NAY while 80% of Suburban's were a YAY.  I am convinced that my persuasion has been in vain, hope your Gator education has convinced you of the same.

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56 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Your team is bad if you lose by 40 plus.  I mean terrible 

He really means they are going to put a running clock on them by halftime.  He just doesn't get that schools with the superior team don't want to play schools like his as it isn't good for neither.  Within the framework everyone has been operating under the only real solution is to get better.

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1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

It’s a good thing we don’t have to deal with those pinnellas county annual state champions. Oh wait. No team has ever won one.  Nice suburb plan for them. They just got metro treatment where they get to get squeezed into four divisions and get to play the amazing Tampa catholic schools. WhT about level playing field for metro schools.  

Yeah Pinellas County just has too many schools within a mile or two of each other that divide the talent up such that no one team is loaded.  Add in a bunch of private schools in the area that cherry pick talent out of your area combined with easy transfers since the schools are so close to each other and youre left with a bunch of schools that cant compete.  This metro tag will just make a bunch of teams go independent and I dont blame them.  

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The point is when playing simulator schools our team is pretty good and even made the playoffs. The team works hard but is not a recruiting school so there is a limit to how far we can go and we are fine. Now we have to play schools with a lot more students than our who do cheat and recruit.  Yes we will lose by 40 just like they do to the teams they play in the state championship or semi finals. 

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Another consequence of this decision is smaller districts and regions, since one more class has been created.  The larger classes under the old system (5A-8A) had 81-82 teams, while the larger classes (2A-4A) under the new system will have 64-68 teams.  So each of these new classes will have 14-18 fewer teams.  The average district size will be 4 teams, with the possibility of some 5-team districts, and the probability of some 3-team districts.  In addition, each region will consist of 16-17 teams, and with 8 teams making the playoffs in each region, about 50% of the teams will make the playoffs in these classes.  The opportunity for postseason play has been increased, so that 40 more teams will make the playoffs across all classes this year.  More good/bad news from this decision, depending on your viewpoint.       

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19 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Agree with you, but how would a school differentiate between a student transferring for academic reasons, or "team choice" if the student's grades are good?

 

18 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

If they don't move into the zoned district for that school they would sit for one year to play sports period, so no determination needed.  The fact that they would still choose School Choice with that rule tells you the academics are the reason which is why it should be allowed at any point.

Ray's ideal is good. I was thinking first come first serve.

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13 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Perspective, the article on this forum from Joshua does show how some of the board members voted.  So it would be a real convoluted Grisham novel to find evil intent from the Lee County Board Member, Ms. Patricca as she was a NO vote.  Meanwhile, Ralph Arza former coach, educator and state legislature out of Miami was one of the YES votes.  Too complicated a conspiracy for me to understand the ending.B)

The conspiracy is you got board members voting who don't know, understand or care what they vote on. Just vote yes on who made a good presentation. 

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They had two members from Lee county. The second one voted for it. Deciding vote. No one has told us why they changed it from last years plan at all. It does not affect my school but Seminole county got bussed. I am sure the creators wanted no part of Seminole HS in 4A suburb.  Lee county schools are bad at football so lets go with Population density. Real nice. I get why the suburb wanted out and don't blame them.  They just did not worry about how 85% of the metro schools will get crushed by new plan and did not care. Next change will be move teams up and down within metro and suburbs with a success and playoff multiplier. Move the super teams up divisions and down who don't have success and they can salvage this dumpster fire move.. But that takes common sense which the FHSAA board has none.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Perspective, the article on this forum from Joshua does show how some of the board members voted.  So it would be a real convoluted Grisham novel to find evil intent from the Lee County Board Member, Ms. Patricca as she was a NO vote.  Meanwhile, Ralph Arza former coach, educator and state legislature out of Miami was one of the YES votes.  Too complicated a conspiracy for me to understand the ending.B)

Ray, I checked with Grisham and this is how he explained it to me:  Patricca and Arza are both involved in unhappy marriages.  They discovered that commonality sitting at a bar in Gainesville after one of the FHSAA board meetings.  They drank a little too much, starting consoling each other and one thing lead to another.  And, well, you can guess the rest.  Now, history repeats itself every time there's another board meeting.  

Anyway, the heavy lifting in this story was done when the Lee County Duo convinced the FHSAA staff to use the "population density" formula instead of straight population.  Even still, no one really knew how the vote would turn out.  So, Patricca and Arza cut a deal between the sheets.   Each agreed to vote the opposite way of the way they really wanted to vote.   That way, the final vote would come out the same, but it wouldn't look as bad for Patricca. 

Now, Grisham also told me that if he were writing the story, one or the other of the two having the affair would have double-crossed the other, but that would have lead to a different outcome with the final voting, so he's glad that didn't happen here.  He thinks the whole metro/suburban thing will make for interesting drama in the coming years, which increases the chances of a sequel or, in this day and age, a second and perhaps even a third season on Netflix. 

Now, just to be safe, please remember that Grisham writes fiction, which is exactly what this post is. 

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It was not too hard to figure out who played games with the idea. The Orlando area has zero members on the board and Lee had 2. Hocus pocus....Seminole gets added to the Metro and Lee  or Polk or Volusia who all have higher polulations stay suburban. another reason to never trust this lousy FHSAA board. Super sketch if you ask me.  

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Included in the agenda for this past Monday's BoD meeting is a PowerPoint presentation entitled "Metro/Suburban - A Search for Competitive Balance".  In the presentation. the author notes that the Open Enrollment Act has made it increasingly easier for players to transfer.  True.  His hypothesis is that in metro areas with a denser population, it is easier for players to find transportation to another school.  So population out, population density in.  Lee County out, Seminole County in.  Do they not have cars in Lee County?  Do Seminole County schools have a history of significant player transfer?

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1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Ray, I checked with Grisham and this is how he explained it to me:  Patricca and Arza are both involved in unhappy marriages.  They discovered that commonality sitting at a bar in Gainesville after one of the FHSAA board meetings.  They drank a little too much, starting consoling each other and one thing lead to another.  And, well, you can guess the rest.  Now, history repeats itself every time there's another board meeting.  

Anyway, the heavy lifting in this story was done when the Lee County Duo convinced the FHSAA staff to use the "population density" formula instead of straight population.  Even still, no one really knew how the vote would turn out.  So, Patricca and Arza cut a deal between the sheets.   Each agreed to vote the opposite way of the way they really wanted to vote.   That way, the final vote would come out the same, but it wouldn't look as bad for Patricca. 

Now, Grisham also told me that if he were writing the story, one or the other of the two having the affair would have double-crossed the other, but that would have lead to a different outcome with the final voting, so he's glad that didn't happen here.  He thinks the whole metro/suburban thing will make for interesting drama in the coming years, which increases the chances of a sequel or, in this day and age, a second and perhaps even a third season on Netflix. 

Now, just to be safe, please remember that Grisham writes fiction, which is exactly what this post is. 

Was really hoping you could unravel this mystery for me and you have come thru in Perspective fashion.  Love it. 

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Nice work on that facts. So let me get this straight. No one in polk county has a car and no schools there recruit.    No one in Volusia transfers to Mainland . come one. How many schools does Seminole even have. That county is too far from Downtown Orlando to get many transfers or recruits. I bet it had more to do with Lee county more than Seminole county and no one wanted Seminole HS in Suburban 4a. When a board meets and changes a plan behind closed doors, you know something fishy is happening. Hey i will give the suburb schools credit, they gerrymandered a team that would be in finals of 4a every year and replaced it with junk. All Lee county schools a bad. Only team worth a darn on SW coast is Naples and our area teams crush them yearly. 

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2 hours ago, Perspective said:

Quick question for anyone who might know the answer:

When the FHSAA/committee was looking at population numbers for the various counties, were they looking at total population or high school age population?  I'd be curious to know if there's any correlation between the two. 

Executive Director Tomyn did mention it during the meeting.

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On 3/4/2022 at 5:57 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Executive Director Tomyn did mention it during the meeting.

Thanks. 

So, if the goal was to slow down the movement of kids from one school to another, and if the thought is that the more kids there are in a particular area, the more likely there is to be movement, then wouldn't it have made more since to compare high school age populations/population densities than overall age populations/population densities? 

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