Metro/Suburban Plan voted on. PASSED

[Floridaatlantic1]

Hi Perspective, 

They picked winners and losers. The suburban people created this garbage plan and then tweeked it to benefit certain counties . The plan did not care the effects on metro teams and counties that have very little recruiting or schools that do not recruit. The same teams will win state in suburban and metro just like always. I am sure that no school in the very populous county of Polk huh. Hitn ...the school that was busted for recruiting a few times and their nickname rhymes with said foughts. 

[DisabledAccount]

3 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Hi Perspective, 

They picked winners and losers. The suburban people created this garbage plan and then tweeked it to benefit certain counties . The plan did not care the effects on metro teams and counties that have very little recruiting or schools that do not recruit. The same teams will win state in suburban and metro just like always. I am sure that no school in the very populous county of Polk huh. Hitn ...the school that was busted for recruiting a few times and their nickname rhymes with said foughts. 

And which metro counties don't get lots of transfers? 

 

You very sure of yourself but I'm waiting to see when the real reason for you bashing this comes out, are you some Dillard fan who thinks STA is the problem even though Dillard got more transfers this off-season 

 

Maybe if these public schools weren't trying to cheat worse than the privates we wouldn't have this mess 

[badbird]

11 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And which metro counties don't get lots of transfers? 

 

You very sure of yourself but I'm waiting to see when the real reason for you bashing this comes out, are you some Dillard fan who thinks STA is the problem even though Dillard got more transfers this off-season 

 

Maybe if these public schools weren't trying to cheat worse than the privates we wouldn't have this mess 

Maybe if the suburban coaches and rural coaches weren't cry babies we wouldn't have this mess.  They are the reason we have 8 now 9 classes and they are also the reason we have rural and now suburban.  Participation trophies, just hand them out to everyone.  Florida football is a joke.

[Nulli Secundus]

4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Hi Perspective, 

They picked winners and losers. The suburban people created this garbage plan and then tweeked it to benefit certain counties . The plan did not care the effects on metro teams and counties that have very little recruiting or schools that do not recruit. The same teams will win state in suburban and metro just like always. I am sure that no school in the very populous county of Polk huh. Hitn ...the school that was busted for recruiting a few times and their nickname rhymes with said foughts. 

[Ray Icaza]

31 minutes ago, badbird said:

Maybe if the suburban coaches and rural coaches weren't cry babies we wouldn't have this mess.  They are the reason we have 8 now 9 classes and they are also the reason we have rural and now suburban.  Participation trophies, just hand them out to everyone.  Florida football is a joke.

If 8 was too many, why wouldn't 6 be too many or 4 or even 2.  Why not let everyone that wants to compete for a "REAL" state championship voluntarily sign up for that "ONE" division regardless of enrollment, private, public, metro, rural or any other designation.  Based on your logic the real champion is a singular team, anything else is a participation trophy.  The ones that don't can sign-up in the "PARTICIPATION DIVISION" so they can have their sense of accomplishment.

[badbird]

9 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

If 8 was too many, why wouldn't 6 be too many or 4 or even 2.  Why not let everyone that wants to compete for a "REAL" state championship voluntarily sign up for that "ONE" division regardless of enrollment, private, public, metro, rural or any other designation.  Based on your logic the real champion is a singular team, anything else is a participation trophy.  The ones that don't can sign-up in the "PARTICIPATION DIVISION" so they can have their sense of accomplishment.

When 50% of the teams make the playoffs and you have 3 team districts you have too many classes.  

We have 8 state champions in their class based off enrollment.  We don't have a true state champion.  If we did relegation we would have one true state champion but I'm ok having multiple state champions just stop watering it down.  Tired of blowouts in the playoffs.  They aren't even fun to watch.

 

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, badbird said:

When 50% of the teams make the playoffs and you have 3 team districts you have too many classes.  

There is no real champion.  We have 8 state champions in there class based off enrollment.

 

I understand that, but you still haven't refuted the argument of only 1 real champion. Or why 3 is better than 1 or 3 is better than 5.  Other than rural schools with population under 500-600 who have a real disadvantage in the age of "SCHOOL CHOICE", enrollment plays almost "ZERO" role in team success.  Every team is operating under the same rule regarding transfers so just have a True State Champion. 

[badbird]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

I understand that, but you still haven't refuted the argument of only 1 real champion. Or why 3 is better than 1 or 3 is better than 5.  Other than rural schools with population under 500-600 who have a real disadvantage in the age of "SCHOOL CHOICE", enrollment plays almost "ZERO" role in team success.  Every team is operating under the same rule regarding transfers so just have a True State Champion. 

I don't understand what you are talking about.

I could care less if we have 1 or 6 champions.  Just give me something more competitive

[Ray Icaza]

1 minute ago, badbird said:

I don't understand what you are talking about.

I could care less if we have 1 or 6 champions.  Just give me something more competitive

DITTO!

[Jesse]

24 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

I understand that, but you still haven't refuted the argument of only 1 real champion. Or why 3 is better than 1 or 3 is better than 5.  Other than rural schools with population under 500-600 who have a real disadvantage in the age of "SCHOOL CHOICE", enrollment plays almost "ZERO" role in team success.  Every team is operating under the same rule regarding transfers so just have a True State Champion. 

So enrollment does not matter, your correct. Also transfers makes the difference, madison county kids are just better period.  Just like miami kids are better than most. In Florida the talent on the field wins , have all the numbers you want.  But I like Madison because they proved school population,  county population doesn't matter.  It's all about how the program strives in its environment.  Blountstown makes choices to play weak teams. South walton is 4A but check they schedule a fat joke. Let's go through and see what percentage of the ones crying is playing weak teams. That's probably the reason for more changes. I feel like 70 percent of teams should be playing each other more. But too many like to think easy schedule equals easy title or deep run because they get a high seed. I say small classes like 6 and make more teams play each other.  No more sorry 1A getting only rural bring back privates. If you to soft play basketball year round.  I swear these kids in 1A are so lazy man,  it's the same in cross country and track, even basketball. What has happen is with more classes more teams will lay back and chill even more.  Just watch 

[Nulli Secundus]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

If 8 was too many, why wouldn't 6 be too many or 4 or even 2.  Why not let everyone that wants to compete for a "REAL" state championship voluntarily sign up for that "ONE" division regardless of enrollment, private, public, metro, rural or any other designation.  Based on your logic the real champion is a singular team, anything else is a participation trophy.  The ones that don't can sign-up in the "PARTICIPATION DIVISION" so they can have their sense of accomplishment.

 

1 hour ago, badbird said:

When 50% of the teams make the playoffs and you have 3 team districts you have too many classes.  

We have 8 state champions in their class based off enrollment.  We don't have a true state champion.  If we did relegation we would have one true state champion but I'm ok having multiple state champions just stop watering it down.  Tired of blowouts in the playoffs.  They aren't even fun to watch.

 

 

1 hour ago, badbird said:

I don't understand what you are talking about.

I could care less if we have 1 or 6 champions.  Just give me something more competitive

One true champion would be fun to see and could be done.  That's why it will never happen.

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

Maybe if the suburban coaches and rural coaches weren't cry babies we wouldn't have this mess.  They are the reason we have 8 now 9 classes and they are also the reason we have rural and now suburban.  Participation trophies, just hand them out to everyone.  Florida football is a joke.

By your logic we should only have one state champion since anything additional is participation trophies 

 

It's not as if other states don't have similar systems to this one but because this state is full of people who hate any form of change they whining about it 

 

Guess what it's not the 1960s, LIFE CHANGES DEAL WITH IT 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

I don't understand what you are talking about.

I could care less if we have 1 or 6 champions.  Just give me something more competitive

How do you know this won't be more competitive?? 

 

The whole point of this is to put a system that will lead to less complete mismatches in the playoffs and finals and for all we know this will actually do that but your complaining because they aren't using a broken idea of student enrollment equals an equal shot of contending? Give me a break student enrollment being used for classifications was broken the minute the stupid dumbasses running this state passed school choice and allowed public schools in the metro areas to get 20 transfers a year which is more than chaminade, Aquinas or AHP get 99% of the past decade 

[badbird]

17 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

How do you know this won't be more competitive?? 

 

The whole point of this is to put a system that will lead to less complete mismatches in the playoffs and finals and for all we know this will actually do that but your complaining because they aren't using a broken idea of student enrollment equals an equal shot of contending? Give me a break student enrollment being used for classifications was broken the minute the stupid dumbasses running this state passed school choice and allowed public schools in the metro areas to get 20 transfers a year which is more than chaminade, Aquinas or AHP get 99% of the past decade 

This is your same response to the last change they made.  I know it won't work because I'm a football guy.  There will be 9 watered down classes.   Just because a team is in the metro doesn't mean they will get a lot of transfers and just because a team is not in the metro doesn't mean they won't get a lot of transfers.  Seminole County is Metro and they have way less player movement than Brevard or Polk who is Suburban.  Do you want me to start naming all the suburban schools that load up on transfers?  The suburban teams are happy because they don't have to deal with Miami schools or the really good private schools.  Suburban football will be a joke except for the few teams that get all the players.  

 

Where the frick am I crying about enrollment?  I've never said enrollment matters.  Once again you can't read or you put words into someone's mouth.  The only thing that matters is the 22 on the field.  The size of the school is not that important.  Cypress Creek has 4k kids and they would never beat Madison with 600 kids.

 

People like you is why we have this new stupid system.  You cry you can't compete with the large metro schools that get all the transfers.  Lee/Riverside was your DADDY.  You guys are just a bunch of whiny bitches.  Take your participation trophy if you ever win it.  By the way this new metro/suburban benefits my school.  I still think it's really dumb and not the right move.

 

The true answer is to move people up and down based on performance.  However this probably won't ever happen because people don't want to be called out for being garbage.

[Floridaatlantic1]

I just read in paper that the Venice Coach says he wants to appeal to FHSAA for his team to play in the Metro division. So if the Suburban is not a second rate fake championship, than why is the probable 4A state suburban champ trying to leave it? 

Enrollment matter some. Its just not the end be all. But it does help if your school is 2 and half time the size of another if the programs are similar in talent and lack of recruiting. 

I doubt Seminole county has as much movement as Polk or Volusia but not familiar with that area as much. I do know a certain school in Polk takes all the best kids from other Polk teams. 

 

[Perspective]

56 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I just read in paper that the Venice Coach says he wants to appeal to FHSAA for his team to play in the Metro division. So if the Suburban is not a second rate fake championship, than why is the probable 4A state suburban champ trying to leave it? 

 

I'll avoid the snarky, snide retort and ask the serious question:  I wonder if the suburban designation is having a detrimental impact on Venice's ability to attract incoming transfers?   Hard to be an elite program when you're not playing the elite programs.  

If the appeal is granted, would that mean that Venice would have to play most, if not all, of its district road games in Hillsborough County?  Likewise, I pity the Hillsborough teams that have to travel back and forth on I-75 on a Friday afternoon for a Friday night game. 

[badbird]

2 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I'll avoid the snarky, snide retort and ask the serious question:  I wonder if the suburban designation is having a detrimental impact on Venice's ability to attract incoming transfers?   Hard to be an elite program when you're not playing the elite programs.  

If the appeal is granted, would that mean that Venice would have to play most, if not all, of its district road games in Hillsborough County?  Likewise, I pity the Hillsborough teams that have to travel back and forth on I-75 on a Friday afternoon for a Friday night game. 

They can be a 1 team district.  I'm sure we will have plenty of 3 team districts, why not a 1 team district?  

[VeniceIndianFan]

15 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I'll avoid the snarky, snide retort and ask the serious question:  I wonder if the suburban designation is having a detrimental impact on Venice's ability to attract incoming transfers?   Hard to be an elite program when you're not playing the elite programs.  

If the appeal is granted, would that mean that Venice would have to play most, if not all, of its district road games in Hillsborough County?  Likewise, I pity the Hillsborough teams that have to travel back and forth on I-75 on a Friday afternoon for a Friday night game. 

There’s way too much traffic on I-75 on Friday afternoons. I’ve see too many heart-wrenching accidents on those roads. I likewise feel sorry for those football teams having to make the long trip. Don’t know if the appeal will pass but Venice is really more suburban than metro. Venice may have become more juvenile in recent years but we are still predominantly a retirement community; case in point, the strong majority of my neighbors are all well into their 60’s and beyond. But they’re the nicest people you’ll ever meet. So I’m not entirely sure how Venice fits into a “Metro” classification. We are a little town in Southwest Sarasota County with a dominant elderly population. Not exactly a “hustling-bustling city.”

[Ray Icaza]

I will also avoid the snarky retort, but is it possible this announcement by Venice is symbolic in nature to shut up the critics that say top suburban schools are running away and hiding.  Seems to me they would understand the implications if this request were granted.  Why would they allow them to move up and not allow a Metro program to move down.  Sure would put the FHSAA in a bind, so they may know the answer prior to asking the question.  Isn't that what good lawyer usually do?

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

This is your same response to the last change they made.  I know it won't work because I'm a football guy.  There will be 9 watered down classes.   Just because a team is in the metro doesn't mean they will get a lot of transfers and just because a team is not in the metro doesn't mean they won't get a lot of transfers.  Seminole County is Metro and they have way less player movement than Brevard or Polk who is Suburban.  Do you want me to start naming all the suburban schools that load up on transfers?  The suburban teams are happy because they don't have to deal with Miami schools or the really good private schools.  Suburban football will be a joke except for the few teams that get all the players.  

 

Where the frick am I crying about enrollment?  I've never said enrollment matters.  Once again you can't read or you put words into someone's mouth.  The only thing that matters is the 22 on the field.  The size of the school is not that important.  Cypress Creek has 4k kids and they would never beat Madison with 600 kids.

 

People like you is why we have this new stupid system.  You cry you can't compete with the large metro schools that get all the transfers.  Lee/Riverside was your DADDY.  You guys are just a bunch of whiny bitches.  Take your participation trophy if you ever win it.  By the way this new metro/suburban benefits my school.  I still think it's really dumb and not the right move.

 

The true answer is to move people up and down based on performance.  However this probably won't ever happen because people don't want to be called out for being garbage.

Only because they recruited from 3 counties and on top of that went out of their way to intentionally try to injure our players but it won't stop us from scheduling teams like TCA or Bolles

 

When's the last time your program took on a private school of that level but our program is a whiny bitch? Until your stepping up your competition who the hell are you to talk shit about what my school does because most the metro teams in Jacksonville are still afraid of TCA and Bolles but Columbia has never been afraid to take them on 

 

Everyone on here thinks they are an expert but none of the clowns on here know a damn thing about 99% of the teams they talk about and no matter how much evidence is shown to prove it they gonna be right back next thread spreading the same bullshit again 

 

All because you all think STA and AHP are the problems but don't have a problem with Miami Central or Northwestern getting 20 transfers a season because you all think it's a one time thing WHEN IT HAPPENS EVERY SEASON 

 

Everyone accuses STA of recruiting when Dillard is getting as many transfers if not more than STA this year and nobody wants to talk about that 

 

Dillard has taken more players from DFB than STA and Cardinal Gibbons combined but Dillard the only school nobody thinks is recruiting in that conversation

 

Every damn thread on this board is like talking through a brick wall 

 

Oh and another thing my rankings are also better than anyone here considering I ranked all 8 state champs at highest in their classification in the preseason so I think I do a good job on evaluating the teams in this state but go ahead and keep believing everyone here's an expert but this board has tanked since guys like Broward and Zoe stopped posting because so many on here are either like Jesse where he jumps into conversations he knows nothing about or spread the same misinformation and lies in every thread and while debates used to be fun here now a days it's just embarrassing to even talk football here because nobody can even make the debates interesting

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

This is your same response to the last change they made.  I know it won't work because I'm a football guy.  There will be 9 watered down classes.   Just because a team is in the metro doesn't mean they will get a lot of transfers and just because a team is not in the metro doesn't mean they won't get a lot of transfers.  Seminole County is Metro and they have way less player movement than Brevard or Polk who is Suburban.  Do you want me to start naming all the suburban schools that load up on transfers?  The suburban teams are happy because they don't have to deal with Miami schools or the really good private schools.  Suburban football will be a joke except for the few teams that get all the players.  

 

Where the frick am I crying about enrollment?  I've never said enrollment matters.  Once again you can't read or you put words into someone's mouth.  The only thing that matters is the 22 on the field.  The size of the school is not that important.  Cypress Creek has 4k kids and they would never beat Madison with 600 kids.

 

People like you is why we have this new stupid system.  You cry you can't compete with the large metro schools that get all the transfers.  Lee/Riverside was your DADDY.  You guys are just a bunch of whiny bitches.  Take your participation trophy if you ever win it.  By the way this new metro/suburban benefits my school.  I still think it's really dumb and not the right move.

 

The true answer is to move people up and down based on performance.  However this probably won't ever happen because people don't want to be called out for being garbage.

You bitched about the last change in fact I don't remember a change in the last 8 or so years you have actually supported

 

Moving away from district runner ups, RPI, metro/suburban

 

Which change did you actually say anything positive about? 

 

If you think district champs/runner ups should have stayed it's the same thing because if the FHSAA is smart this new system could be a way to slowly remove student enrollment from the equation which is why I want to wait and see where it goes 

 

The problem is the people on these committees are too conservative and won't accept a massive sudden change, everything has to be gradual to work their way out of the mess 

 

If it was up to them we would still have the district champs/runner up system which rewards second best teams in garbage districts

 

 

And I supported the point system/RPI because I always felt we needed some form of seeding for the playoffs because that flip every year bullshit was something that resembled a middle school format and it was pathetic so of course I would support and defend anything that moves us out of the 19th century

[badbird]

34 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You bitched about the last change in fact I don't remember a change in the last 8 or so years you have actually supported

 

Moving away from district runner ups, RPI, metro/suburban

 

Which change did you actually say anything positive about? 

 

If you think district champs/runner ups should have stayed it's the same thing because if the FHSAA is smart this new system could be a way to slowly remove student enrollment from the equation which is why I want to wait and see where it goes 

 

The problem is the people on these committees are too conservative and won't accept a massive sudden change, everything has to be gradual to work their way out of the mess 

 

If it was up to them we would still have the district champs/runner up system which rewards second best teams in garbage districts

 

 

And I supported the point system/RPI because I always felt we needed some form of seeding for the playoffs because that flip every year bullshit was something that resembled a middle school format and it was pathetic so of course I would support and defend anything that moves us out of the 19th century

Quote

 

I didn't read it all but I'll comment on the first part.  The RPI was a failure, that's the only other thing I didn't support.  They are getting rid of it because it sucked.  I prefer the maxpreps rankings, Id rather have Pinkos (RIP).  So I like they are going to maxpreps over the RPI.  So there's one thing I support.    

 

Adding more classes is going to make smaller districts and more shittier teams will get into the playoffs.  Something you're against.  When more than 50% of the teams make the playoffs, up to 60% in the smaller classes, you get what we have.  Only going to be worse with another class added.  I was against the RPI(it sucked) but I wasn't against runner ups not getting in.  I was for smaller number of classes and more teams in a district.  Also meaning a less percentage of teams would make the playoffs creating more competitive classes.  Not hard to follow buddy.  

[badbird]

28 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

because if the FHSAA is smart

I could laugh at this all day.

[Nulli Secundus]

2 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I just read in paper that the Venice Coach says he wants to appeal to FHSAA for his team to play in the Metro division. So if the Suburban is not a second rate fake championship, than why is the probable 4A state suburban champ trying to leave it? 

Enrollment matter some. Its just not the end be all. But it does help if your school is 2 and half time the size of another if the programs are similar in talent and lack of recruiting. 

I doubt Seminole county has as much movement as Polk or Volusia but not familiar with that area as much. I do know a certain school in Polk takes all the best kids from other Polk teams. 

 

You must be referring to that charter school known as Lake Wales High.

[Floridaatlantic1]

The Venice coach could be using it as a promo for Suburban but it has already been established that the Metro is the BIG BOY real state champs and the Suburban will be the scrub fake state championships even if the champ would have won the metro like Venice.  We will never know now. The suburban schools won their independence but they don't get to have it both ways. You cant say please FHSAA split the state into two because we cant compete with metro schools and then say they are the equivalent state champs.