Coach Pay

[gatorman-uf]

Every couple of years, a newspaper writes a similar article. 

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2022/03/08/do-florida-high-school-football-coaches-deserve-better-pay/

[badbird]

Lake county hasn't increased the supplement pay for coaches in 20 plus years.  

[PinellasFB]

So these HCs for other states, are they teachers too or just fulltime HCs?  I noticed other states have so much better facilities and their schemes are way more advanced, indicating high level coaching.  It's easy to say "just pay more" to coaches but where do these other states get their funding?  If it's boosters then most of metro public FL is out of luck because there just isnt the local community support like in Texas or Georgia, for example.  Friday night lights is the event of the week every week in Texas whereas I attend games here in Pinellas that sometimes have barely any attendance, even for a good team (Northeast HS last year comes to mind).  

[Ray Icaza]

Regardless of community support, quality of coaching, strength of booster club or any other impediment HC at every school put in alot of time.  The supplement they get is ridiculously low no matter how you look at it.  Should definitely be fixed as most make their local community better. 

[PinellasFB]

39 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Regardless of community support, quality of coaching, strength of booster club or any other impediment HC at every school put in alot of time.  The supplement they get is ridiculously low no matter how you look at it.  Should definitely be fixed as most make their local community better. 

absolutely agree they are undercompensated but I'm just wondering where would these funds come from since all the public schools are already broke?

[Ray Icaza]

8 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

absolutely agree they are undercompensated but I'm just wondering where would these funds come from since all the public schools are already broke?

Most school boards squander alot of money on things they shouldn't.  My guess is most could easily find a carve out in their budget if properly motivated. 

[Captain Morgan]

The problem with the pay in Florida falls with the school board for the counties. Take Alachua county for example, let’s say Hawthorne is fully committed to football and want to pay a lot of money. They have to get creative and give the coach summer hours, or drivers Ed ect to up his pay. They can’t just say the football coach gets paid 85,000 and he teaches PE. If they did then every other school in Alachua county would have to pay the same amount. That’s why you see the larger salaries in Florida from single county schools or counties with 2-3 schools only. Georgia is primarily one county schools such as Lowndes or Colquitt. They only have to pay 1 head coach. You don’t have 6-8 schools that could care less about football getting paid the same amount. Texas is the same way, most of their school districts have only a few schools. 

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

The problem with the pay in Florida falls with the school board for the counties. Take Alachua county for example, let’s say Hawthorne is fully committed to football and want to pay a lot of money. They have to get creative and give the coach summer hours, or drivers Ed ect to up his pay. They can’t just say the football coach gets paid 85,000 and he teaches PE. If they did then every other school in Alachua county would have to pay the same amount. That’s why you see the larger salaries in Florida from single county schools or counties with 2-3 schools only. Georgia is primarily one county schools such as Lowndes or Colquitt. They only have to pay 1 head coach. You don’t have 6-8 schools that could care less about football getting paid the same amount. Texas is the same way, most of their school districts have only a few schools. 

Lowndes county has 3 schools actually I believe but that aside that's actually an interesting explanation that I haven't seen given in the past with this topic 

[gatorman-uf]

26 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Lowndes county has 3 schools actually I believe but that aside that's actually an interesting explanation that I haven't seen given in the past with this topic 

Lowndes County has 2 public schools (Lowndes and Valdosta), but the City of Valdosta has their own school board/school, so what Captain Morgan suggests still applies as City of Valdosta and Lowndes County have their own school board and would be single schools.

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, gatorman-uf said:

Lowndes County has 2 public schools (Lowndes and Valdosta), but the City of Valdosta has their own school board/school, so what Captain Morgan suggests still applies as City of Valdosta and Lowndes County have their own school board and would be single schools.

Is valwood not considered a lowndes county school?

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, gatorman-uf said:

Lowndes County has 2 public schools (Lowndes and Valdosta), but the City of Valdosta has their own school board/school, so what Captain Morgan suggests still applies as City of Valdosta and Lowndes County have their own school board and would be single schools.

And I remember that now that you mentioned It

 

Isn't one a county school and the other a city school even though I think both are located within the city limits

[gatorman-uf]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Is valwood not considered a lowndes county school?

Private School

[gatorman-uf]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And I remember that now that you mentioned It

Isn't one a county school and the other a city school even though I think both are located within the city limits

Yes

[PinellasFB]

13 hours ago, Captain Morgan said:

The problem with the pay in Florida falls with the school board for the counties. Take Alachua county for example, let’s say Hawthorne is fully committed to football and want to pay a lot of money. They have to get creative and give the coach summer hours, or drivers Ed ect to up his pay. They can’t just say the football coach gets paid 85,000 and he teaches PE. If they did then every other school in Alachua county would have to pay the same amount. That’s why you see the larger salaries in Florida from single county schools or counties with 2-3 schools only. Georgia is primarily one county schools such as Lowndes or Colquitt. They only have to pay 1 head coach. You don’t have 6-8 schools that could care less about football getting paid the same amount. Texas is the same way, most of their school districts have only a few schools. 

Lowndes has Valdosta HS, another power program in addition to Lowndes, but what you said is the drum I've been beating for Florida metro as the problem.  Too many schools.  You have to pay 10-15 coaches in the same geographic area you'd have to pay 3-5 coaches in Texas or GA.  Just too many mouths to feed and that's why I said its easy to say "pay them more" but much harder to actually come up with the funds.  In addition to more coaches to pay, the other problem is there are less fans per school.  No one school identifies with a community since there are so many within a few miles of each other.  Without strong boosters, each school has far less booster funds to use than Texas or GA. 

I dont recommend bigger high schools either.  My son goes to a 2500 enrollment school and that feels too big.  He's just a number there and a big school feels like he's just getting herded through the system, even at an A rated school like PHU.  I cant tell you how many classes each day he deals with substitute teachers, for example.  There really is no solution other than for a school to create a strong booster club and try to get local community support but good luck with that.  I'm in our booster club and its pretty much parents-only donating, with a few local businesses helping out.

[Floridaatlantic1]

Another issue with the increase in pay for coaches is if you raised the Head football coach and assistant by say 4000 a year each. Every other sport at the school would want the same pay and no way the school board want to deal with that cost. 

[Nulli Secundus]

14 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Another issue with the increase in pay for coaches is if you raised the Head football coach and assistant by say 4000 a year each. Every other sport at the school would want the same pay and no way the school board want to deal with that cost. 

Very true.  That could easily create a ripple effect that school districts are not willing to make.  

[Perspective]

31 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Another issue with the increase in pay for coaches is if you raised the Head football coach and assistant by say 4000 a year each. Every other sport at the school would want the same pay and no way the school board want to deal with that cost. 

Interesting point.   How is this issue currently handled?   Does the answer depend on what county you're in?  Do head baseball coaches make as much as head football coaches?  Does the girl's flag football coach make as much as the boys head football coach? 

Clearly, colleges and universities have figured out a way to pay their football coaches more than the coaches of other sports (perhaps through the creation of athletic associations, booster clubs, etc. that pay or supplement coaching salaries.  But is that just historical?

I can certainly make the argument that head football coaches deserve higher pay because football generates the most revenue.  But that argument doesn't always work from a legal standpoint. 

So, getting back to my first couple of questions:  do the coaches of all high school sports receive the same stipend?

[Floridaatlantic1]

The pay for head coaches and assistants are similar in the big sports that have long seasons. They reduce the pay according to length of season. Still not fair that a football spends a million hours and gets paid same as bowling coach practically. This would be a union issue for sure if they paid the fb coach alot more than other sports. 

[Ray Icaza]

Football coaches oversee and manage alot more kids than other sports as well as a half dozen or more assistants.  They should get significantly more but don't.  A successful program as earlier pointed out will drive revenue that helps minor sports get funded.  Any issue with the union should be addressed with a sliding scale just like teachers based on years of service; if he is successful and you retain him he can make alot more than a new coach at another county school.  A new teacher does not get paid nearly what a 20 year veteran does.  

[Floridaatlantic1]

Your right Ray but the new teacher pay is the same as a 10 year veteran right now after last years pay raise bill. It made starting pay  alot better for new teachers but had no money for vets. 

[Ray Icaza]

4 hours ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

Your right Ray but the new teacher pay is the same as a 10 year veteran right now after last years pay raise bill. It made starting pay  alot better for new teachers but had no money for vets. 

Only a temporary glitch as I understand it since DeSantis has another round of raises scheduled for those with experience.  Historically, someone with 5 years earns more than a rookie, someone with 10 more than those with 5.  So my analogy is correct tying it back to coaches.

[Captain Morgan]

Some schools implement sports to be self sufficient. That means whatever expenses they have they must cover through gate money or fundraising. I know one school where the football team keeps all the gate money and that is a big advantage. That doesn’t help with coaches pay because they don’t let you use that money for salary, however it gives the program more money to spend so the qb club can direct funds to the coach instead of buying uniforms or whatever. 

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Only a temporary glitch as I understand it since DeSantis has another round of raises scheduled for those with experience.  Historically, someone with 5 years earns more than a rookie, someone with 10 more than those with 5.  So my analogy is correct tying it back to coaches.

Hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... This won't be fixed for years, if ever. The legislature is only focused on raising base pay (starting salary). 31 counties still hadn't reached the goal amount of $47.5K, because the legislature didn't actually put enough in the budget to make it happen, thus leading to people thinking teachers would all be at the $47.5K number, but many were not.
Yes, in more expensive counties where the starting salaries were already above that, the districts and unions had more flexibility with the money, but if your county was at 39K, they might have gotten to 43K and made experienced who were at 43K earn the same amount as new teachers. Basically, for some counties, you are compressing the entire salary schedule one salary level. Over many years it might decompress, but if the state legislature turns around and does the same compression, you undue it all again. If they ever get all counties to the $47.5K, they then will set a new goal of $55K, which will again compress the salary schedules. This is the new norm. The state legislature does not care about experience, tenure, or knowledge. They would prefer the opposite for teachers so that they don't build any social/political capital and speak out. 

[DisabledAccount]

27 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... This won't be fixed for years, if ever. The legislature is only focused on raising base pay (starting salary). 31 counties still hadn't reached the goal amount of $47.5K, because the legislature didn't actually put enough in the budget to make it happen, thus leading to people thinking teachers would all be at the $47.5K number, but many were not.
Yes, in more expensive counties where the starting salaries were already above that, the districts and unions had more flexibility with the money, but if your county was at 39K, they might have gotten to 43K and made experienced who were at 43K earn the same amount as new teachers. Basically, for some counties, you are compressing the entire salary schedule one salary level. Over many years it might decompress, but if the state legislature turns around and does the same compression, you undue it all again. If they ever get all counties to the $47.5K, they then will set a new goal of $55K, which will again compress the salary schedules. This is the new norm. The state legislature does not care about experience, tenure, or knowledge. They would prefer the opposite for teachers so that they don't build any social/political capital and speak out. 

Of course because the people in charge at the state level are full of insecure losers who need to push their weight around to scare people from calling them out 

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

Hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... hahahaha.... This won't be fixed for years, if ever. The legislature is only focused on raising base pay (starting salary). 31 counties still hadn't reached the goal amount of $47.5K, because the legislature didn't actually put enough in the budget to make it happen, thus leading to people thinking teachers would all be at the $47.5K number, but many were not.
Yes, in more expensive counties where the starting salaries were already above that, the districts and unions had more flexibility with the money, but if your county was at 39K, they might have gotten to 43K and made experienced who were at 43K earn the same amount as new teachers. Basically, for some counties, you are compressing the entire salary schedule one salary level. Over many years it might decompress, but if the state legislature turns around and does the same compression, you undue it all again. If they ever get all counties to the $47.5K, they then will set a new goal of $55K, which will again compress the salary schedules. This is the new norm. The state legislature does not care about experience, tenure, or knowledge. They would prefer the opposite for teachers so that they don't build any social/political capital and speak out. 

Staying clear of this discussion as I sense political undertones and don't need more warnings.  Time will tell.