LAKELAND Calls out dade county

[cribboy305]

1 hour ago, FBGUY1989 said:

I don't agree because if your a private school you should be able to complete and beat the best of the best. Look at St. Thomas and you see Jesuit best Northwestern in 2021 which I wasn't expecting that. Yes Dade schools are on another level but I feel like they are being penalized in this new system.

without a doubt i feel the same way. have yall seen 2m in miami? it makes 0 since but i hear its a power ranking system going on so there may be an instance where central & northwestern can meet up in the state championship.

[Ray Icaza]

3 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

I don't agree because if your a private school you should be able to complete and beat the best of the best. Look at St. Thomas and you see Jesuit best Northwestern in 2021 which I wasn't expecting that. Yes Dade schools are on another level but I feel like they are being penalized in this new system.

Penalized in what way, because they have to play the best of the best?  Because they have to play another team that is dealing with the same deck of cards to win a championship?  Or are you implying they should still be beating up on the counties of lesser caliber due to sheer numbers?

[DisabledAccount]

6 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

I don't agree because if your a private school you should be able to complete and beat the best of the best. Look at St. Thomas and you see Jesuit best Northwestern in 2021 which I wasn't expecting that. Yes Dade schools are on another level but I feel like they are being penalized in this new system.

Miami Northwestern had like 4 times the transfers that Jesuit did 

 

Miami Northwestern got out coached and outplayed by a hungry Jesuit team

[DisabledAccount]

4 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Just out of curiosity, is that why the top privates are located almost exclusively in Metro areas?  Dade, Broward, Duval, Hillsborough.

Because private schools are like current publics

 

Privates in isolated areas don't have any real advantage, the advantage someone like Bolles or TCA has in Duval is they are better structured and better coached than 99% of the teams in Duval county so players want to go there 

 

They tend to do better in metro areas when they have better coaching and resources than other struggling publics who change coaches every year or 2 but if they are isolated like say Aucilla Christian what advantage does it really give them to pull from Jefferson County when they would have to face TCA who plays with Duval kids

[DisabledAccount]

6 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

I don't agree because if your a private school you should be able to complete and beat the best of the best. Look at St. Thomas and you see Jesuit best Northwestern in 2021 which I wasn't expecting that. Yes Dade schools are on another level but I feel like they are being penalized in this new system.

The only mistake they made with this metro/suburban thing is that they couldn't completely abolish the student enrollment aspect because that is a broken system and has been for a while 

 

You got schools of 300 who can destroy schools of 3k kids

 

Talent pools have become county wide for teams so using county population does a better service towards fixing the problem 

[FBGUY1989]

3 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Penalized in what way, because they have to play the best of the best?  Because they have to play another team that is dealing with the same deck of cards to win a championship?  Or are you implying they should still be beating up on the counties of lesser caliber due to sheer numbers?

Do you rather see them all beat up on each other then having them all have a chance winning a state title because this is exactly what it sounds like. Look we all know when it comes to the playoffs except those few years but the road to state goes through Miami/Broward If you're a school in Central or North Florida and hear Booker T. Washington, Central, Northwestern or St. Thomas which the chances of all four in the first round getting knocked out isn't happening but you'd be jumping up and down because you now know it's up in the air and it's anyone's game.

[Perspective]

12 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Just out of curiosity, is that why the top privates are located almost exclusively in Metro areas?  Dade, Broward, Duval, Hillsborough.

Simple:  the private schools in these counties have a larger talent pool to recruit, er, try to attract potential incoming students from.   

[Ray Icaza]

8 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

Do you rather see them all beat up on each other then having them all have a chance winning a state title because this is exactly what it sounds like. Look we all know when it comes to the playoffs except those few years but the road to state goes through Miami/Broward If you're a school in Central or North Florida and hear Booker T. Washington, Central, Northwestern or St. Thomas which the chances of all four in the first round getting knocked out isn't happening but you'd be jumping up and down because you now know it's up in the air and it's anyone's game.

If population centers don't have a huge advantage, then why have different classifications for school population and not just have one overall champion.  It was an effort (student enrollment) to level the playing field and neither you or anyone else seemed to disagree with this format.  The argument that a Suburban is not a true champion is the same argument I could make with 5 or 6 different classifications as we all know that very few would stand a chance against the Miami or Broward powerhouses.  You may call it beating up on each other, but yet that is what playoffs are supposed to be all about.   As you correctly pointed out, the best vs the best.  Your real beef is now you won't have a chance at multiple titles using only the classification system that has been in place for years, happily ignoring the same inequity with population centers. 

[Ray Icaza]

51 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Simple:  the private schools in these counties have a larger talent pool to recruit, er, try to attract potential incoming students from.   

Funny how that works .

[Perspective]

8 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Miami Northwestern had like 4 times the transfers that Jesuit did 

 

Miami Northwestern got out coached and outplayed by a hungry Jesuit team

Historically, Jesuit has not relied on transfers.   That's not their 'business model.'  They've made a few exceptions over the years - most notably the QB that transferred in as a senior a couple of years ago.  But, Jesuit's business model is to identify the talented kids before they start high school (when most of them are flying under the radar) and then start coaching them up and letting the weight room work its magic over the next couple of years. 

Mind you, many of these kids would want nothing to do with Jesuit (and Jesuit would likely want nothing to do with these kids) were it not for football.  That said, the kids often end up in a better academic and social environment by going to Jesuit than by going to the public school for which they would be zoned (and, yes, I understand that even this part of the equation has changed over the last few years). 

For what it's worth, Berkeley pretty much follows the same model.  I suspect many of the private schools in the state do the same thing, although I'm pretty sure that STA is a little more liberal in its transfer policy. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

5 hours ago, Perspective said:

Simple:  the private schools in these counties have a larger talent pool to recruit, er, try to attract potential incoming students from.   

But under this new plan we can now eliminate public schools who will complain about losing the ballgame with an excuse because the publics and privates are finally being pulled closer to the middle of the “competitive spectrum,” so to speak. Of course, private schools will still have more money and resources than your average public school, but the competitive imbalance is finally being addressed and will (hopefully) foster more competition in the playoffs and district play. 

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, Perspective said:

Historically, Jesuit has not relied on transfers.   That's not their 'business model.'  They've made a few exceptions over the years - most notably the QB that transferred in as a senior a couple of years ago.  But, Jesuit's business model is to identify the talented kids before they start high school (when most of them are flying under the radar) and then start coaching them up and letting the weight room work its magic over the next couple of years. 

Mind you, many of these kids would want nothing to do with Jesuit (and Jesuit would likely want nothing to do with these kids) were it not for football.  That said, the kids often end up in a better academic and social environment by going to Jesuit than by going to the public school for which they would be zoned (and, yes, I understand that even this part of the equation has changed over the last few years). 

For what it's worth, Berkeley pretty much follows the same model.  I suspect many of the private schools in the state do the same thing, although I'm pretty sure that STA is a little more liberal in its transfer policy. 

STA may accept some more transfers than Jesuit or Berkeley but they do tend to build up most of their talent in their program to their credit 

 

If they are 4 year players than I don't have an issue with them having a "open zoning policy" because that's basically how publics now operate 

[DisabledAccount]

11 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Funny how that works .

But to be fair publics can do the same now with the current rules 

[Ray Icaza]

19 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But to be fair publics can do the same now with the current rules 

True, which is why THEY (either publics or privates in Metro areas) don't like the Metro/Suburban plan.  Those top schools that have dominated 4-6 classifications in the old system now are jammed into maybe 2-3 classifications that have similar potential for transfer advantages which they don't like.  Both liked the old system that provided them with that unfair advantage and now they will have to beat other schools with comparable advantages.  Is that the reason all the pushback is coming from the Metros??

[Perspective]

11 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But to be fair publics can do the same now with the current rules 

That is not true of all public schools. 

[DisabledAccount]

9 hours ago, Perspective said:

That is not true of all public schools. 

Nor does it apply to all privates 

 

Not all private schools go out and actively recruit talent to fill a sports team, some don't even prioritize sports 

 

There are probably more public schools out there who have coaches texting kids parents than privates (actively recruiting)

[skyway]

Again, it isn't the schools behind this. It's the players. They see each other out at camps, tournaments, pick-up games and on social media, chat it up, and try to build super teams. The coaches may have an idea of what's going on, but I don't think they're directing or guiding it. Not directly, anyway. It's pretty easy for everyone to see where a team could use help. And they all know who the best players at those positions in the area are. So, the dominoes can fall pretty quickly without a coach saying/doing anything. 

[Perspective]

16 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Nor does it apply to all privates 

 

Not all private schools go out and actively recruit talent to fill a sports team, some don't even prioritize sports 

 

There are probably more public schools out there who have coaches texting kids parents than privates (actively recruiting)

Columbia, you missed my point.  Even if kids decide that they want to transfer into a particular school (by whatever means they may be enticed to do so), they cannot transfer into schools that are at capacity, at least not in HIllsborough County.  Best example I can give you is Plant High School in Tampa.   It's an "A" school and its "over capacity" because the kids who live in the Plant district have the absolute right to go there.   (As an aside, there are a number of kids, including athletes, who live in the Plant district, but who attend Jesuit or Berkeley instead of Plant for any number of reasons).  But, a stud football player who happens to live in another school district can 'choose' to attend the school in the district for which he is zoned or almost any other school in the county - public or private -  except for Plant.    So, my point is that no all public schools have the ability to accept transfers, much less go out and 'encourage' kids to attend their school.  In my view, that results in an uneven playing field.   

[cribboy305]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:21 AM, Perspective said:

Columbia, you missed my point.  Even if kids decide that they want to transfer into a particular school (by whatever means they may be enticed to do so), they cannot transfer into schools that are at capacity, at least not in HIllsborough County.  Best example I can give you is Plant High School in Tampa.   It's an "A" school and its "over capacity" because the kids who live in the Plant district have the absolute right to go there.   (As an aside, there are a number of kids, including athletes, who live in the Plant district, but who attend Jesuit or Berkeley instead of Plant for any number of reasons).  But, a stud football player who happens to live in another school district can 'choose' to attend the school in the district for which he is zoned or almost any other school in the county - public or private -  except for Plant.    So, my point is that no all public schools have the ability to accept transfers, much less go out and 'encourage' kids to attend their school.  In my view, that results in an uneven playing field.   

how so? only 11 on defense & 11 on O. you are right, some teams have it better than others when it comes to talent pool but understand hard work always beats talent. some counties can afford better coaching staffs & better facilities, would you say that was an unfair playing field?

[FBGUY1989]

14 minutes ago, cribboy305 said:

how so? only 11 on defense & 11 on O. you are right, some teams have it better than others when it comes to talent pool but understand hard work always beats talent. some counties can afford better coaching staffs & better facilities, would you say that was an unfair playing field?

Your right. Miami schools don't even have their own football field compared to other parts of the state including their counterparts in Broward County 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, cribboy305 said:

how so? only 11 on defense & 11 on O. you are right, some teams have it better than others when it comes to talent pool but understand hard work always beats talent. some counties can afford better coaching staffs & better facilities, would you say that was an unfair playing field?

Hard work isn't gonna overcome a team with 15-20 FBS transfers onto a team already top 10 in FL when the other team maybe gets 20 FBS level players over a 10-15 year window 

 

Get real, at the end of the day having teams from counties of 50k sharing a classification with Dade Broward and the other counties of 1M people to pull from was never going to go well especially now that schools like Miami Central and Northwestern can get 20 transfers in a single off-season (and yes I can back that up so don't even bother denying it) all because of some archaic idea that school enrollment is a great way to keep a level playing field 

 

If it was then we wouldn't see schools of 300 able to beat schools of 2-3k 

 

What is SFL so afraid of? That they won't get anymore matchups with Baker County or Buchholz in the playoffs to coast to a easy win? 

[DisabledAccount]

52 minutes ago, FBGUY1989 said:

Your right. Miami schools don't even have their own football field compared to other parts of the state including their counterparts in Broward County 

I'm sure most teams would be glad to play in a neighborhood park to get access to 30 FBS players overnight

 

Having a stadium isn't much an advantage with that much talent on the field unless the other team has comparable talent 

[FBGUY1989]

6 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Hard work isn't gonna overcome a team with 15-20 FBS transfers onto a team already top 10 in FL when the other team maybe gets 20 FBS level players over a 10-15 year window 

 

Get real, at the end of the day having teams from counties of 50k sharing a classification with Dade Broward and the other counties of 1M people to pull from was never going to go well especially now that schools like Miami Central and Northwestern can get 20 transfers in a single off-season (and yes I can back that up so don't even bother denying it) all because of some archaic idea that school enrollment is a great way to keep a level playing field 

 

If it was then we wouldn't see schools of 300 able to beat schools of 2-3k 

 

What is SFL so afraid of? That they won't get anymore matchups with Baker County or Buchholz in the playoffs to coast to a easy win? 

Your missing the point. Miami schools aren't scared to play anyone it's just that now they have to beat up on each other. In 2019 Booker T. Washington, Columbus, Central and Northwestern all brought a state title back and you might now see that again.

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

11 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

Your missing the point. Miami schools aren't scared to play anyone it's just that now they have to beat up on each other. In 2019 Booker T. Washington, Columbus, Central and Northwestern all brought a state title back and you might now see that again.

I look at it like this MIAMI central,MNW, carol city & throwback Jackson & carol city wasn’t scared to play nobody. 
 

but the rest of MIAMI outside of Columbus don’t be wanting no smoke with true contenders. Miami get the put as a whole when it comes to toughness & fearlessness but in reality it’s just a GOOD 5 schools in Mia that really want that smoke. 

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

11 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

Your missing the point. Miami schools aren't scared to play anyone it's just that now they have to beat up on each other. In 2019 Booker T. Washington, Columbus, Central and Northwestern all brought a state title back and you might now see that again.

As far as the beating up on each other statement I look at it like this, you’re looking at it from a “MIA STANDPOINT” as you want all the MIAMI powers to win it all in different classifications aka “ONE EAT ALL EAT” 

but I look at it like this yall beat up on each other most years in the regular season for bragging rights. Why not play each other in a setting where it really counts & leave it all on the field. 
 

i would love for Dillard to play a STA or MIAMI central or Venice or etc in the state championship rather then the first or second round.