Comparison of 6 teams in 3S

[DisabledAccount]

2 hours ago, Perspective said:

I respectfully disagree.   The FHSAA can, indeed, punish recruiting.   Their hands may indeed be tied when it comes to transfers (so the "haves" schools will continue to attract kids from "have nots" schools), but recruiting is still prohibited.

That said, I'd be interested to know how many illegal recruiting cases were considered this past year by the FHSAA and how many schools were punished for breaking this rule. 

But the margin of proof for recruiting has to be significant (have to show direct proof in form of texts or video/audio recordings of a coach or administrator telling a player to come to a specific school)

 

There's almost no way to track player recruiting other players which is normally what happens 

[Proseteye]

14 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Was already proposed a few years back and it didn't get past the first round of the advisory committees 

I still like, IMO, the only plausible scenario, which I believe was adapted by the FHSAA a few years back, and that was a student transferring would have to sit out sports in the year he was transferring. It didn't completely shut down transfers for sports only, but it surely limited them. I don't seriously think that the Florida Legislature envisioned students transferring for sports only when they approved unlimited student transfers anywhere in the State. Their intension was to allow students to transfer out of schools performing poorly academically to schools performing better academically. 

[Perspective]

58 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

 I don't seriously think that the Florida Legislature envisioned students transferring for sports only when they approved unlimited student transfers anywhere in the State. Their intension was to allow students to transfer out of schools performing poorly academically to schools performing better academically. 

If you truly believe this, I've got a bridge in Polk County that I'd like to sell you.   

[Nulli Secundus]

5 hours ago, Perspective said:

If you truly believe this, I've got a bridge in Polk County that I'd like to sell you.   

Central Polk Parkway coming.  What you charging?

[Floridaatlantic1]

I have seen many cases where the fhsaa busts a school for blatant recruiting violations and teams still gets to play in playoffs with recruited players so they are basically saying it’s ok even if by laws say it isn’t. So if no enforcement the. Make all teams with over four transfers in a year play 8a. Let cheaters beat each other up .

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

I have seen many cases where the fhsaa busts a school for blatant recruiting violations and teams still gets to play in playoffs with recruited players so they are basically saying it’s ok even if by laws say it isn’t. So if no enforcement the. Make all teams with over four transfers in a year play 8a. Let cheaters beat each other up .

Over 4 transfers? Hell that would be like 300-400 teams in Florida every year 

 

I would have said anyone over 10 total or anyone who gets more than 5 players rated 3* or better through the composite rankings 

[Ray Icaza]

Again, it's not just the number but the complete picture.  At the end of football season during the 2nd semester this year we had two families moved into our area with a couple of very talented freshman football players.  One played at Westport HS in Ocala last year, while the other at Thompson Valley HS in Colorado; both will make an impact during the next couple of years.  How likely is it we "Recruited" these two to move to Kissimmee and should they be punished and made to sit a year for transferring in?   Or counted against the 4 or 6 or whatever the number?  Sitting out a year is a rule I would support for a local kid that for whatever reason decides to switch to play football for a school he isn't zoned for.  But that would not apply to this real example I gave you which recently happened with one moving over 100 miles and the other a couple thousand.  Not always as cut and dry as it seems.  

[DisabledAccount]

30 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Again, it's not just the number but the complete picture.  At the end of football season during the 2nd semester this year we had two families moved into our area with a couple of very talented freshman football players.  One played at Westport HS in Ocala last year, while the other at Thompson Valley HS in Colorado; both will make an impact during the next couple of years.  How likely is it we "Recruited" these two to move to Kissimmee and should they be punished and made to sit a year for transferring in?   Or counted against the 4 or 6 or whatever the number?  Sitting out a year is a rule I would support for a local kid that for whatever reason decides to switch to play football for a school he isn't zoned for.  But that would not apply to this real example I gave you which recently happened with one moving over 100 miles and the other a couple thousand.  Not always as cut and dry as it seems.  

The FHSAA doesn't want to have to decide "oh this is the cutoff" and the state legislature will be ready in the wings to strip them of all power and put some figurehead in that would basically punish any rural schools or public schools for existing since they would rather all kids went to private schools so they can save money as private schools aren't funded by the state 

[DisabledAccount]

Long story short for as much as some out there may hate this system if we left it up to those clowns in Tallahassee it would be 10X worse 

[nolebull813]

The word “transfer” doesn’t mean “better” 

Not all transfers are created equal. If Columbia got 12 transfers from Ft White, Interlachen, Bell and Branford that’s not gonna make them better. 
 

So to keep using the word transfer as some naughty word that only applies to the 4 and 5 stars is asinine. And there is only so many to go around. 

[nolebull813]

I think the FHSAA should just keep changing the rules until Columbia wins a title, then get back to the real competition and consolidate to 5 classes. 

[nolebull813]

The thing that is most funny to me is enrollment is used in every state in the country to classify teams, and was used in Florida the last 60 years, but the second it starts to benefit the teams that just started gaining success the last decade or so NOW all of a sudden it’s an outdated format???

And the lies and excuses made up to create the metro/suburban split are squashed when plenty of “suburban” teams have enjoyed much success against their metro counterparts recently. 
 

Armwood lost in the finals like 5 years in a row to a Miami team. You can’t blame transfers. Armwood was stocked and ready. 
 

I’ll tell you why and it’s not a secret. Miami football is better overall than Hillsborough. 
 

when ColumbiaClown aka Factchecker says “was AHP vs Baker County and STA vs Buchholz good”? No they weren’t good, but that’s because football is better in Broward than freaking Gainesville and Macclenny. Has nothing to do with transfers. The football is just better. That’s the reason. 

[nolebull813]

Suburban team Venice beats the dog crap out of Metro West Orange, Miami Columbus and Apopka to win the large class state title. 
 

The FHSAA: “we can’t take this shit anymore!!!!! The metro area teams like West Orange, Columbus and Apopka have WAY too much advantages over a suburban teams. We need to split them up to give weak little teams like Venice a chance!!!!!!!

[Ray Icaza]

28 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Suburban team Venice beats the dog crap out of Metro West Orange, Miami Columbus and Apopka to win the large class state title. 
 

The FHSAA: “we can’t take this shit anymore!!!!! The metro area teams like West Orange, Columbus and Apopka have WAY too much advantages over a suburban teams. We need to split them up to give weak little teams like Venice a chance!!!!!!!

Find a singular example and it negates the actual data?  How many times in the last decade has that happened in 8A?  And we do have more than one class with them all falling into this same pattern over the last decade which you totally ignore.  Teams like Venice, Cocoa, Armwood, Lakeland that have relied heavily on transfers to compete with the south FL powerhouses may occasionally slip up and win one.  But any honest person looking at the numbers knows that is not going to happen hardly ever.  You are dug in and that is fine, just the outlier example you provide makes for a weak argument.  

[DisabledAccount]

59 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

The thing that is most funny to me is enrollment is used in every state in the country to classify teams, and was used in Florida the last 60 years, but the second it starts to benefit the teams that just started gaining success the last decade or so NOW all of a sudden it’s an outdated format???

And the lies and excuses made up to create the metro/suburban split are squashed when plenty of “suburban” teams have enjoyed much success against their metro counterparts recently. 
 

Armwood lost in the finals like 5 years in a row to a Miami team. You can’t blame transfers. Armwood was stocked and ready. 
 

I’ll tell you why and it’s not a secret. Miami football is better overall than Hillsborough. 
 

when ColumbiaClown aka Factchecker says “was AHP vs Baker County and STA vs Buchholz good”? No they weren’t good, but that’s because football is better in Broward than freaking Gainesville and Macclenny. Has nothing to do with transfers. The football is just better. That’s the reason. 

How many other states have an open transfer policy?

 

This has gotten into a hamster wheel because you clearly think that system was perfect you probably also want the flip every year with bracket bullshit and champs and runner ups back 

 

You just want it because your conservative and hate any form of change, be honest about it 

 

You don't hate metro suburban you just hate anything that goes against the status quo because you deem it too "progressive" for you 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

The thing that is most funny to me is enrollment is used in every state in the country to classify teams, and was used in Florida the last 60 years, but the second it starts to benefit the teams that just started gaining success the last decade or so NOW all of a sudden it’s an outdated format???

And the lies and excuses made up to create the metro/suburban split are squashed when plenty of “suburban” teams have enjoyed much success against their metro counterparts recently. 
 

Armwood lost in the finals like 5 years in a row to a Miami team. You can’t blame transfers. Armwood was stocked and ready. 
 

I’ll tell you why and it’s not a secret. Miami football is better overall than Hillsborough. 
 

when ColumbiaClown aka Factchecker says “was AHP vs Baker County and STA vs Buchholz good”? No they weren’t good, but that’s because football is better in Broward than freaking Gainesville and Macclenny. Has nothing to do with transfers. The football is just better. That’s the reason. 

If those games are so lopsided why the HELL WOULD YOU WANT THEM TO SHARE A CLASSIFICATION WITH EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF HAVING GOOD TEAMS IN THE SAME CLASSIFICATION?!!

 

Enrollment was out of date the moment the morons in Tallahassee made it possible for kids to group up at a few schools in counties with over 1M population and I been saying this even before the metro suburban thing 

 

Those matchups will never get leveled out and become competitive because your talking about teams in these metros that literally are pulling from an entire county and getting the best players 

 

Same with Miami Central

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

The word “transfer” doesn’t mean “better” 

Not all transfers are created equal. If Columbia got 12 transfers from Ft White, Interlachen, Bell and Branford that’s not gonna make them better. 
 

So to keep using the word transfer as some naughty word that only applies to the 4 and 5 stars is asinine. And there is only so many to go around. 

So a team getting 15-20 3* players at the high school level won't change the game? Are you freaking kidding me? That's a dumber take than listening to Kirk Herbstreit doing a broadcast on a high school game and doing nothing but promoting the ESPN 300 for the entire damn broadcast

 

If some these rural teams can only get a few "FBS" level players and a metro can get 15,20,25+ come in during a single off-season how the hell are they supposed to compete? 

 

"Oh I'm sorry you don't have a million people to pull from, your a garbage team who should just fold their program"

 

Yeah right that makes sense in what damn planet

[nolebull813]

What if the metro teams that are losing kids to transfer started to complain and say they can’t compete with local powers who are getting all the talent? Then do they split the classes up based on transfers? And remember that’s a flawed logic because the word transfer doesn’t mean good. 
 

They would have to classify teams not just based on transfers but by their star ranking. What site do they use? 247? Rivals? Calpreps? Let me know!!! 
 

Realignment will look like this 

Class 1A Rural - Lol

Class 2A - 0 transfers 

Class 3A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating of the transfers is less than 3

Class 4A - 4-6 transfers but the average star rating is less than 3 

Class 5A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is less than 3

Class 6A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 7A - 4-6 transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 8A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 9A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

Class 10A - 4 to 6 transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

Class 11A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, nolebull813 said:

What if the metro teams that are losing kids to transfer started to complain and say they can’t compete with local powers who are getting all the talent? Then do they split the classes up based on transfers? And remember that’s a flawed logic because the word transfer doesn’t mean good. 
 

They would have to classify teams not just based on transfers but by their star ranking. What site do they use? 247? Rivals? Calpreps? Let me know!!! 
 

Realignment will look like this 

Class 1A Rural - Lol

Class 2A - 0 transfers 

Class 3A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating of the transfers is less than 3

Class 4A - 4-6 transfers but the average star rating is less than 3 

Class 5A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is less than 3

Class 6A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 7A - 4-6 transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 8A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is between 3 and 4

Class 9A - 1 to 3 transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

Class 10A - 4 to 6 transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

Class 11A - 7 plus transfers but the average star rating is between 4 and 5

 

I already answered this one buddy, clearly your slipping a bit 

 

11 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Over 4 transfers? Hell that would be like 300-400 teams in Florida every year 

 

I would have said anyone over 10 total or anyone who gets more than 5 players rated 3* or better through the composite rankings 

 

 

I think the biggest issue is more that we would actually have to get a system in place that charts every transfer and create a lockdown date where no athletic transfer can come in (maybe early July) and from there the FHSAA uses the active database and geographic proximity to create the districts, teams would be told a general idea of what weeks to leave open for district play or would just get teams to tentatively set interest in playing a team and set the weeks after districts are set 

 

I think I can do something with your idea though that will actually make you satisfied

[DisabledAccount]

Realignment will look like this 

 

Class 1A Rural - (basically its own classification anyway)

 

Class 2A - 3 or less transfers and average rating is lower that 3* composite 

 

Class 3A - 4-8 transfers but average rating is lower than 3* composite

 

Class 4A - 8+ transfers but average rating is lower than 3* composite

 

Class 5A - less than 6 transfers but the composite ranking average is 4* or higher 

 

Class 6A - more than 6 transfers but the composite ranking average is 4* or higher

 

 

 

There nolebull, satisfied?

 

1A is basically its own thing with a few set teams and the rest of the state would be divided into 5 classifications 

[Dr. D]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

The thing that is most funny to me is enrollment is used in every state in the country to classify teams, and was used in Florida the last 60 years, but the second it starts to benefit the teams that just started gaining success the last decade or so NOW all of a sudden it’s an outdated format???

And the lies and excuses made up to create the metro/suburban split are squashed when plenty of “suburban” teams have enjoyed much success against their metro counterparts recently. 
 

Armwood lost in the finals like 5 years in a row to a Miami team. You can’t blame transfers. Armwood was stocked and ready. 
 

I’ll tell you why and it’s not a secret. Miami football is better overall than Hillsborough. 
 

when ColumbiaClown aka Factchecker says “was AHP vs Baker County and STA vs Buchholz good”? No they weren’t good, but that’s because football is better in Broward than freaking Gainesville and Macclenny. Has nothing to do with transfers. The football is just better. That’s the reason. 

On Monday when discussing class size/number, you said, "we shouldn’t just accept a poor product because other states do".  But today you suggest we should stick with enrollment for classification purposes because "every state in the country" does so.  So should we follow the example of other states, or not?  Being the first to do something different is not necessarily wrong, it's called innovation.  Circumstances change.  Time will tell if it's the right call.  

[nolebull813]

I was being sarcastic. 
 

it should be 5 classes based on enrollment with the 100 smallest teams in the state as 1A and so on. 

[nolebull813]

1 minute ago, Dr. D said:

On Monday when discussing class size/number, you said, "we shouldn’t just accept a poor product because other states do".  But today you suggest we should stick with enrollment for classification purposes because "every state in the country" does so.  So should we follow the example of other states, or not?  Being the first to do something different is not necessarily wrong, it's called innovation.  Circumstances change.  Time will tell if it's the right call.  

Enrollment is fine. South Florida is just better at the game of football than North Florida. The individual talent backs it up. 
 

They are essentially separating it because one part of the state is better than the other part so they have to separate it to make the inferior part feel better. 
 

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, nolebull813 said:

I was being sarcastic. 
 

it should be 5 classes based on enrollment with the 100 smallest teams in the state as 1A and so on. 

Enrollment was only created because a LONG LONG LONG time ago, probably about the same time they were signing the declaration of independence it was decided that school enrollment numbers was a correlation of teams on "a level playing field"

 

Remind me how exactly St Thomas Aquinas and Buchholz are on a level playing field now that teams can pull from an entire county for talent 

 

How about Miami Central being on a level playing field with Lake Minneola or Escambia

 

When you realize that student enrollment was only EVER used to create a balance which is now obsolete then you can understand we need something that actually accounts for the changes the idiots in Tallahassee created

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, nolebull813 said:

Enrollment is fine. South Florida is just better at the game of football than North Florida. The individual talent backs it up. 
 

They are essentially separating it because one part of the state is better than the other part so they have to separate it to make the inferior part feel better. 
 

 

You separate it because the state numbers continue to go down and lack of interest means less people investing in the schools which is why FL can't keep up with other states like TX and GA

 

Why are you so determined to keep these blowouts in the finals?