Is this true?

[Nulli Secundus]

10 minutes ago, Dan in Daytona said:

I think the answer is in your last sentence. It would be very unpopular and the smaller schools (Cocoa, Bolles, Chaminade, and a few others being the exceptions) would cry like hell over the size disparity. Also some play 14-15 games now with playoffs. An "8" team champions playoff would add 3 more games. You can almost hear the bleeding hearts screaming now about danger, injury, and exploitation. 

Believe it or not, I could see larger programs complaining as well because it greatly decreases their chances at a title.  There are small schools that thrive on taking on larger programs and would welcome the opportunity to prove it on the field.  Having 1 class, the Florida elite will rise to the top and it's not impossible.  I've been working out the numbers and putting together a map with a breakdown of how the plan could work.  I'll provide details later on in the week.  Again, it would not be the popular choice but certainly the right one (in my opinion).  Any player and coach would know that no matter if their team went the distance or not, they played the best and that adds value and proves once and for all that Florida is the nationwide leader in competitiveness.

[Perspective]

A one-class/single/ultimate state champion system will be adopted in Florida only if and when a national tournament is created, as that would be the only/fairest way to truly determine which team should represent the state of Florida. 

[Nulli Secundus]

1 minute ago, Perspective said:

A one-class/single/ultimate state champion system will be adopted in Florida only if and when a national tournament is created, as that would be the only/fairest way to truly determine which team should represent the state of Florida. 

Well it will NEVER happen.

[DisabledAccount]

3 hours ago, skyway said:

There are just too many "suburban" places where super teams are possible, which makes it impossible to legislate the parity you want. The Pensacola, Bradenton/Sarasota, Brevard and Polk county areas all have the potential for "super" teams that most from any county couldn't compete with. Pine Forest, Bradenton Southeast, Manatee, Sarasota Riverview, Venice, Lakeland have all had nationally elite teams in my lifetime. PF and Lakeland both have national championships following blow-out wins in state title games. Venice blew out "metro" teams in both the state semis and finals just last year. Any of these programs could raid all the other local schools and build a team untouchable in their class (and it looks like one has done just that for 2022.) 

The real difference is between programs who are able to build super rosters and those who can't. It's mostly the rural schools that can't do this.

Fun fact: if IMG ever was approved to play for FHSAA titles, they'd be "suburban". 

Well I could definitely make an argument that I would have done the metro/suburban split a bit different but it's still a step in the right direction

 

What nobody on this board or in the state has been able to give a competent argument for is how in the previous system would we ever have seen state title games become more competitive when the FHSAA HAS NO WAY TO CONTROL TRANSFERS 

 

Again if anyone wants to give me a case go right ahead but I bet right now there isn't a person on this board who can justify how any playoff system was gonna fix that issue and how student enrollment is still the "best" way to determine "competitive balance" in the current wild west of transfers

 

But If anyone wants to try I'm all ears 

[Dan in Daytona]

3 hours ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Believe it or not, I could see larger programs complaining as well because it greatly decreases their chances at a title.  There are small schools that thrive on taking on larger programs and would welcome the opportunity to prove it on the field.  Having 1 class, the Florida elite will rise to the top and it's not impossible.  I've been working out the numbers and putting together a map with a breakdown of how the plan could work.  I'll provide details later on in the week.  Again, it would not be the popular choice but certainly the right one (in my opinion).  Any player and coach would know that no matter if their team went the distance or not, they played the best and that adds value and proves once and for all that Florida is the nationwide leader in competitiveness.

Who knew a snake's brain cells were bigger than his testicles ?  You had that coming....... from a WILDCAT   

[Nulli Secundus]

2 hours ago, Dan in Daytona said:

Who knew a snake's brain cells were bigger than his testicles ?  You had that coming....... from a WILDCAT   

I thought you knew I was more than a handsome face.  Rattlers have to EARN our degrees!

[nolebull813]

Why is it that Brevard and Polk can be considered suburban with disadvantages against the metro areas, but they have teams with multiple championships over their history including ones In the current era? 
 

How did Lakeland beat STA a few years ago? How did Venice beat Apopka last year? How is this possible? 

 

[nolebull813]

suburban Venice outscored the 3 metro teams in the 3rd round, semi finals and finals by a combined 119-21!!! 

how is this possible?

 

[Perspective]

Nolebull, while I think your questions are rhetorical, I'll answer them anyway. 

Venice and Lakeland are a lot a like.   While they may not be in a true metro county, they are both located in or close to high population areas.  In other words, there are plenty of other high schools close by.  Relatively, speaking, none of those 'close by schools' have a football tradition that rivals Lakeland (in Polk) or Venice (in Sarasota).  Both schools have long-time coaches (Castle and Peacock) and tremendous fan/alumni support.  Both schools teetered close to the edge (and likely crossed the line a few times) with respect to transfers prior to school choice and both established themselves as the preeminent program in their area before the rules/laws changed.  And because neither school is at capacity, they can accept transfers that may become attracted to their programs, however that may happen.   In short, they have all the ingredients necessary for a successful program:  coaching, athletes and community support. 

[Nulli Secundus]

38 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Nolebull, while I think your questions are rhetorical, I'll answer them anyway. 

Venice and Lakeland are a lot a like.   While they may not be in a true metro county, they are both located in or close to high population areas.  In other words, there are plenty of other high schools close by.  Relatively, speaking, none of those 'close by schools' have a football tradition that rivals Lakeland (in Polk) or Venice (in Sarasota).  Both schools have long-time coaches (Castle and Peacock) and tremendous fan/alumni support.  Both schools teetered close to the edge (and likely crossed the line a few times) with respect to transfers prior to school choice and both established themselves as the preeminent program in their area before the rules/laws changed.  And because neither school is at capacity, they can accept transfers that may become attracted to their programs, however that may happen.   In short, they have all the ingredients necessary for a successful program:  coaching, athletes and community support. 

Shhhhhh.  You know that question was meant for someone else.  Just sit back and watch the show 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

Why is it that Brevard and Polk can be considered suburban with disadvantages against the metro areas, but they have teams with multiple championships over their history including ones In the current era? 
 

How did Lakeland beat STA a few years ago? How did Venice beat Apopka last year? How is this possible? 

 

Did you not bother reading upwards? I said that both should have been listed as metros but they were able to sneak into suburban because they had people on the committees fighting for them 

 

It doesn't mean there aren't schools who can't compete for a title because of the current transfer rules but it's obvious even though you said your only issue was the number of classes that this will never get though to you 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

suburban Venice outscored the 3 metro teams in the 3rd round, semi finals and finals by a combined 119-21!!! 

how is this possible?

 

Oh please Venice had tons of transfers and probably got more than a few metro teams who have won state lately but you know this and if all you can do is reference Lakeland, Cocoa and Venice as your entire argument for metro suburban being a failure then your argument is on thin ice "fact checker"

 

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Nolebull, while I think your questions are rhetorical, I'll answer them anyway. 

Venice and Lakeland are a lot a like.   While they may not be in a true metro county, they are both located in or close to high population areas.  In other words, there are plenty of other high schools close by.  Relatively, speaking, none of those 'close by schools' have a football tradition that rivals Lakeland (in Polk) or Venice (in Sarasota).  Both schools have long-time coaches (Castle and Peacock) and tremendous fan/alumni support.  Both schools teetered close to the edge (and likely crossed the line a few times) with respect to transfers prior to school choice and both established themselves as the preeminent program in their area before the rules/laws changed.  And because neither school is at capacity, they can accept transfers that may become attracted to their programs, however that may happen.   In short, they have all the ingredients necessary for a successful program:  coaching, athletes and community support. 

I was about to type this type of response but Perspective did the hard work for me so this^^^^

[DisabledAccount]

15 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well I could definitely make an argument that I would have done the metro/suburban split a bit different but it's still a step in the right direction

 

What nobody on this board or in the state has been able to give a competent argument for is how in the previous system would we ever have seen state title games become more competitive when the FHSAA HAS NO WAY TO CONTROL TRANSFERS 

 

Again if anyone wants to give me a case go right ahead but I bet right now there isn't a person on this board who can justify how any playoff system was gonna fix that issue and how student enrollment is still the "best" way to determine "competitive balance" in the current wild west of transfers

 

But If anyone wants to try I'm all ears 

@nolebull813maybe try to prove this argument and I'll be impressed 

[skyway]

15 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well I could definitely make an argument that I would have done the metro/suburban split a bit different but it's still a step in the right direction

 

What nobody on this board or in the state has been able to give a competent argument for is how in the previous system would we ever have seen state title games become more competitive when the FHSAA HAS NO WAY TO CONTROL TRANSFERS 

 

Again if anyone wants to give me a case go right ahead but I bet right now there isn't a person on this board who can justify how any playoff system was gonna fix that issue and how student enrollment is still the "best" way to determine "competitive balance" in the current wild west of transfers

 

But If anyone wants to try I'm all ears 

I think "Perspective" gives a hint of how it could potentially (not very likely) happen. Someone like Shyster Joe puts together a national tourney, mostly for his pets SFA and IMG, then joined by Mater Dei/SJB and a handful of other programs choose to make themselves eligible. In Florida, that's STA, Central, AH, Chaminade and maybe a couple of others depending on the year (Lakeland may opt in for a year like 2022). So, those few teams would opt out of FHSAA to play in a national tourney. That's not very many teams, but, if those are gone, the blowouts in state title games are mostly gone.

The blowouts are almost entirely from a handful of teams. The remaining teams- the vast majority of the state- aren't likely to blow through state title games. Remember, even Jesuit, an elite team to be sure, did not blow out it's state title game opponent. This all boils down to STA against a 7A without any other power teams (let us not forget that from 2017-2020, STA lost twice and won two hard-fought titles) and Central against a bunch of "suburban" teams in over their heads.

[Floridaatlantic1]

The Lakeland Polk being suburban and lee being suburban is pure corruption.  As far as suburban competitiveness. Madison wins for sure it’s division.  
cocoa wins for fun it’s division Naples wins

venice Lakewood or Osceola wins big division

boy is that some parity to justify dumb suburban idea. Some rotten schools get to get beat by 60 by cocoa in semis and finals 

 

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The Lakeland Polk being suburban and lee being suburban is pure corruption.  As far as suburban competitiveness. Madison wins for sure it’s division.  
cocoa wins for fun it’s division Naples wins

venice Lakewood or Osceola wins big division

boy is that some parity to justify dumb suburban idea. Some rotten schools get to get beat by 60 by cocoa in semis and finals 

 

And when they don't you will admit I'm right!!! Take the bet or get your ass off your fake high horse 

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, Floridaatlantic1 said:

The Lakeland Polk being suburban and lee being suburban is pure corruption.  As far as suburban competitiveness. Madison wins for sure it’s division.  
cocoa wins for fun it’s division Naples wins

venice Lakewood or Osceola wins big division

boy is that some parity to justify dumb suburban idea. Some rotten schools get to get beat by 60 by cocoa in semis and finals 

 

Lakewood is in metro genius!! 

 

But I'm the one who doesn't know football huh? Pathetic

[DisabledAccount]

 

 

Class 2M - Region R2 - District D8

School City

Boca Ciega (Gulfport) Gulfport

Gibbs (St. Petersburg) St. Petersburg

Lakewood (St. Petersburg) St. Petersburg

 

 

[Nulli Secundus]

48 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Lakewood is in metro genius!! 

 

But I'm the one who doesn't know football huh? Pathetic

Football and geography... Shiiiiiiiit  Great post Columbia.

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Lakewood is in metro genius!! 

 

But I'm the one who doesn't know football huh? Pathetic

Think it was an honest typo on his part...  Meant to type Lakeland not Lakewood. 

[DisabledAccount]

45 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Think it was an honest typo on his part...  Meant to type Lakeland not Lakewood. 

Well considering he thinks Naples will cakewalk 3S I'm not entirely sure that it wasn't just a lack of football knowledge

 

When's the last time Naples beat a state champion of any classification?

[nolebull813]

34 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well considering he thinks Naples will cakewalk 3S I'm not entirely sure that it wasn't just a lack of football knowledge

 

When's the last time Naples beat a state champion of any classification?

2007 they beat the Connecticut state champ Greenwich High 

[Ray Icaza]

27 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well considering he thinks Naples will cakewalk 3S I'm not entirely sure that it wasn't just a lack of football knowledge

 

When's the last time Naples beat a state champion of any classification?

Not sticking up for this guy as his views and mine on Metro/Suburban are 180 degrees apart.  His dissing excellent programs like our school and categorizing us as "Losers" because we lose against stacked Broward/Dade squads in state championships game is a bridge too far thus I ignore his rants.  As several of us have pointed out, this brave gentleman hiding in his basement won't even declare his HS loyalty to a team.   No respect given, so none returned. 

[nolebull813]

4 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

@nolebull813maybe try to prove this argument and I'll be impressed 

I already did. The classes would be condensed to 5, so you most likely would have seen the state champions from last year play each other or close to it.

5 classes would assure that garbage teams couldn’t make the finals 

[DisabledAccount]

14 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

I already did. The classes would be condensed to 5, so you most likely would have seen the state champions from last year play each other or close to it.

5 classes would assure that garbage teams couldn’t make the finals 

So you think Pine Forest against Miami Central would have been close? 

 

Merritt Island vs Cardinal Gibbons?

 

I'm not sold that there wouldn't have still been situations under the previous system where the north team makes it to the finals and has to face a recruited up powerhouse like Miami Central and then get blasted