An officiating travesty: the story of Venice-SFA tonight.

[Ray Icaza]

34 minutes ago, ohs vargas said:

Venice use to stream most of there games on youtube, now they only stream pregame.

 

They now stream on the website below, but you have to buy a virtual ticket to watch the games live or watch a rerun. 

https://www.veniceindianfootball.org/

Thanks for the info, but my opinion after watching the game won't change the results so I'll pass on giving them money.

[KeemD321]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:21 PM, goblu said:

For whatever reason, this rule is widely misinterpreted or unfamiliar to many.  It doesn't matter if the student started, doesn't matter if they were on varsity, doesn't matter if they participated at all.  Once you enter 9th grade you have 8 consecutive semesters of athletic eligibility.  Anyone who entered 9th grade in 2018, as these players did, is no longer eligible to participate in high school sports.

Again if this info is easily accessible then I'm sure every team and association that approved to schedule them knows which would forfeit their season. Or maybe they weren't in 9th grade in 2018. Not saying they were or weren't, just haven't seen any information verifying these claims. Either way the game was played and the outcome came out to be what it clearly should have been, just less of a point differential. 

I'm just curious to know, if the outcome was different and Venice won, would those claims still be put out there?

[goblu]

22 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

Again if this info is easily accessible then I'm sure every team and association that approved to schedule them knows which would forfeit their season. Or maybe they weren't in 9th grade in 2018. Not saying they were or weren't, just haven't seen any information verifying these claims. Either way the game was played and the outcome came out to be what it clearly should have been, just less of a point differential. 

I'm just curious to know, if the outcome was different and Venice won, would those claims still be put out there?

St. Frances isn't a member of any conference, league or state athletic association.  Since they don't play under any governing body there is no one to declare the players ineligible or to declare a forfeit.  If you schedule them you have no idea what you're getting.  As for the players it's easy to check that they were class of 2022 at their previous schools.

Still wondering why there wasn't a post-game handshake.

[KeemD321]

Just now, goblu said:

St. Frances isn't a member of any conference, league or state athletic association.  Since they don't play under any governing body there is no one to declare the players ineligible or to declare a forfeit.  If you schedule them you have no idea what you're getting.  As for the players it's easy to check that they were class of 2022 at their previous schools.

Still wondering why there wasn't a post-game handshake.

That's on the governing associations they are approved to play against. Also don't FHSAA backed schools have to play teams that are governed by a conference, league or association?

There probably wasn't a handshake due to some possible tension or just a mutual agreement. Who knows. 

I know when SFA played Desoto there wasn't a post game handshake due to extreme disrespect on behalf of Desoto. Also. Desoto didn't even attempt to line up for post game handshakes when SFA started to line up at the 50. Desoto just walked off the field. 

[KeemD321]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:27 PM, goblu said:

St. Frances isn't a member of any conference, league or state athletic association.  Since they don't play under any governing body there is no one to declare the players ineligible or to declare a forfeit.  If you schedule them you have no idea what you're getting.  As for the players it's easy to check that they were class of 2022 at their previous schools.

Still wondering why there wasn't a post-game handshake.

So I just watched this weeks recap/preview show for Elite 100 Prospects which covers all of central Florida, the topic of Venice was brought up since they played Seminole. There was some claims made that if true very well could be key reason for there not being a post game handshake between SFA and Venice. 

Also, maybe some light could be shed on the penalty differential of the Seminole game by the ones who watched it.

@VeniceIndiansFootball @ohs vargas @Ray Icaza @goblu

[ohs vargas]

2 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

So I just watched this weeks recap/preview show for Elite 100 Prospects which covers all of central Florida, the topic of Venice was brought up since they played Seminole. There was some claims made that if true very well could be key reason for there not being a post game handshake between SFA and Venice. 

Also, maybe some light could be shed on the penalty differential of the Seminole game by the ones who watched it.

@VeniceIndiansFootball @ohs vargas @Ray Icaza @goblu

I did not watch the full game, only highlights and saw the Seminole players and coaches tweeting about it.

But I did also watch the Elite 100 recap/preview and he stated

"He seen Seminole had 30+ Penalties to Venice's 2 Penalties, so anytime i see stuff like that.  I know for a fact that Seminole is not that undisciplined of a team."

I def need to see where i can find those penalty stats, because if those Penalty numbers are correct. 

It does not look good for Venice at all.

[KeemD321]

43 minutes ago, ohs vargas said:

I did not watch the full game, only highlights and saw the Seminole players and coaches tweeting about it.

But I did also watch the Elite 100 recap/preview and he stated

"He seen Seminole had 30+ Penalties to Venice's 2 Penalties, so anytime i see stuff like that.  I know for a fact that Seminole is not that undisciplined of a team."

I def need to see where i can find those penalty stats, because if those Penalty numbers are correct. 

It does not look good for Venice at all.

Yea that's why I was wondering if anyone had any info on that. 

And if the other topic is true then that'll make things 100x worse. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 10/6/2022 at 11:35 AM, KeemD321 said:

So I just watched this weeks recap/preview show for Elite 100 Prospects which covers all of central Florida, the topic of Venice was brought up since they played Seminole. There was some claims made that if true very well could be key reason for there not being a post game handshake between SFA and Venice. 

Also, maybe some light could be shed on the penalty differential of the Seminole game by the ones who watched it.

@VeniceIndiansFootball @ohs vargas @Ray Icaza @goblu

If you watched the game instead of listening to the biased anti-referee garbage on this message board, you would know that SFA earned all of their penalties and didn't play up to their standard. There were plays where two SFA linemen had to hold Damon Wilson just to slow him down and he still didn't relent. SFA jumped offsides on almost every "hard count" that Venice pulled, and they were holding constantly; you could see it on the ESPN replays.

There was a play in the second quarter where Da'shawn Womack accidentally put his hands in Michael Peavley's facemask and pulled on it with his bodyweight to try to move him out of the way, and his neck bent unnaturally to the right. As such, a flag was thrown for a facemask. His neck could have been snapped on the play, potentially killing him, and SFA gets hissy about a penalty? What a horrible example to set for your kids. And then Messay Hailemariam has the guts to blame their poor first-half performance on "homecooking." What a joke. What I will say, though, is that Venice's touchdown that went through the endzone should have been ruled a touchback. I didn't see it at first but the replay made it clear. The referee judging the ball on this particular play was an elderly man, so perhaps the foul-up was excusable if his vision was poor but nonetheless, these plays can't just slip through the cracks.

In the end, SFA was the better team and proved it in a big way. They made the plays necessary to win the game and proved why they are the best team in the nation. Venice did put up a decent fight against the #1 team in the nation and if there's any lesson to be learned from this game, it's that on any given Friday, anything can happen! l hope to see you all next year once again SFA!

Go Indians!

[VeniceIndianFan]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:55 PM, goblu said:

Maybe the officials were just trying to level the playing field what with all the ineligible 5th year players on the St. Frances team.  Is that why there was no post-game handshake?

SFA is a great team, but I seriously doubt there were 5th year players on that squad. Seems a bit far-reaching

[KeemD321]

7 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

If you watched the game instead of listening to the biased anti-referee garbage on this message board, you would know that SFA earned all of their penalties and didn't play up to their standard. There were plays where two SFA linemen had to hold Damon Wilson just to slow him down and he still didn't relent. SFA jumped offsides on almost every "hard count" that Venice pulled, and they were holding constantly; you could see it on the ESPN replays.

There was a play in the second quarter where Da'shawn Womack accidentally put his hands in Michael Peavley's facemask and pulled on it with his bodyweight to try to move him out of the way, and his neck bent unnaturally to the right. As such, a flag was thrown for a facemask. His neck could have been snapped on the play, potentially killing him, and SFA gets hissy about a penalty? What a horrible example to set for your kids. And then Messay Hailemariam has the guts to blame their poor first-half performance on "homecooking." What a joke. What I will say, though, is that Venice's touchdown that went through the endzone should have been ruled a touchback. I didn't see it at first but the replay made it clear. The referee judging the ball on this particular play was an elderly man, so perhaps the foul-up was excusable if his vision was poor but nonetheless, these plays can't just slip through the cracks.

In the end, SFA was the better team and proved it in a big way. They made the plays necessary to win the game and proved why they are the best team in the nation. Venice did put up a decent fight against the #1 team in the nation and if there's any lesson to be learned from this game, it's that on any given Friday, anything can happen! l hope to see you all next year once again SFA!

Go Indians!

Thanks for the response but I'm definitely confused about this one. I never said anything about the job the refs did in the SFA game, so I don't understand why you're coming at me with, "if I watched the game instead of listening to the biased anti-ref garbage."

I literally asked what happened to see why the thread was made to get thoughts and perspective. I actually watched the replay and my only issue was the touchdown that should've been a touchback. Also, I voiced my opinion questioning the unwarranted allegations about SFA that didn't have any proof provided.

As far as my post you quoted; you didn't acknowledge anything I said. You could've just posted what you said without quoting me if that was the case.

Again, I didn't bash Venice or the refs and didn't make any excuses about penalties. I just asked for anyone that watched the Venice vs Seminole game to shed some light on the penalty differential that was put out there. 

Also, my main point was to get everyone's opinion and some light shed on the claims that were made on the Elite 100 Prospects recap show from last week. Which is why I referred back to another poster questioning why SFA didn't do a post game handshake. Those claims could very well be the reason why. 

[goblu]

10 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

SFA is a great team, but I seriously doubt there were 5th year players on that squad. Seems a bit far-reaching

Sorry but it's true.

[Beek]

deleted. wrong thread

[VeniceIndianFan]

4 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

Thanks for the response but I'm definitely confused about this one. I never said anything about the job the refs did in the SFA game, so I don't understand why you're coming at me with, "if I watched the game instead of listening to the biased anti-ref garbage."

I literally asked what happened to see why the thread was made to get thoughts and perspective. I actually watched the replay and my only issue was the touchdown that should've been a touchback. Also, I voiced my opinion questioning the unwarranted allegations about SFA that didn't have any proof provided.

As far as my post you quoted; you didn't acknowledge anything I said. You could've just posted what you said without quoting me if that was the case.

Again, I didn't bash Venice or the refs and didn't make any excuses about penalties. I just asked for anyone that watched the Venice vs Seminole game to shed some light on the penalty differential that was put out there. 

Also, my main point was to get everyone's opinion and some light shed on the claims that were made on the Elite 100 Prospects recap show from last week. Which is why I referred back to another poster questioning why SFA didn't do a post game handshake. Those claims could very well be the reason why. 

I responded to the wrong post. My apologies. I wasn't upset about people saying that Venice shouldn't have played SFA, but a referee pile-on just seems wrong and short-sighted. There are men in their 70's and 80's officiating plays out there. Have to give them credit as I do not think I could do it at their age. It's a very tough job and takes years of refining to do well. As far as your post, I didn't hear anything about why SFA and Venice didn't shake hands. I know that there was a time when Biff Poggi was still at SFA that the coaching staffs liked each other. Coach Peacock knew Poggi outside of football and respected him; part of the reason that a game between Venice and SFA was possible in 2019. Perhaps something went on behind the scenes that I'm missing. I didn't actually get to see the Venice vs Seminole game, so I won't comment on this matter further.

As far as the false allegations against SFA, there are NO ineligible 5th year players on that team. I don't even know where that rumor came from, but it is absolutely ridiculous and seems a bit defamatory. The only school I know of that allows 5th-year players (on a separate squad,) is St. Thomas More of Connecticut, a private Christian school that may have a chance at the national championship this season. So to claim that a school is playing with 19- and 20-year Olds at the high school level just seems absurd. 

[nolebull813]

I think it’s common knowledge that Venice has their own personal ref crews that tilt the scales in their favor. That’s why they try and have a record breaking amount of home games. 

[VeniceIndianFan]

35 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

I think it’s common knowledge that Venice has their own personal ref crews that tilt the scales in their favor. That’s why they try and have a record breaking amount of home games. 

What evidence do you have to back-up such a ridiculous claim?

[goblu]

24 minutes ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

As far as the false allegations against SFA, there are NO ineligible 5th year players on that team. I don't even know where that rumor came from, but it is absolutely ridiculous and seems a bit defamatory. The only school I know of that allows 5th-year players (on a separate squad,) is St. Thomas More of Connecticut, a private Christian school that may have a chance at the national championship this season. So to claim that a school is playing with 19- and 20-year Olds at the high school level just seems absurd. 

Sam Greene and Kameron Howard were freshman at Bishop McNamara High School in 2018.  Durell Robinson was a sophomore on the 2019 Bishop McNamara roster.  Donovan Dyson was a junior at St. Vincent Pallotti High School in 2020 and Kahari Finley was listed as a senior at Frederick Douglas High School in 2021 (he was actually on their JV roster as a 2022 in 2017) but may have ended up at Rock Creek for the 2021 season.

[VeniceIndianFan]

5 minutes ago, goblu said:

Sam Greene and Kameron Howard were freshman at Bishop McNamara High School in 2018.  Durell Robinson was a sophomore on the 2019 Bishop McNamara roster.  Donovan Dyson was a junior at St. Vincent Pallotti High School in 2020 and Kahari Finley was listed as a senior at Frederick Douglas High School in 2021 (he was actually on their JV roster as a 2022 in 2017) but may have ended up at Rock Creek for the 2021 season.

If these are true, why is SFA allowed to compete at the high school level? IMG and St. Thomas More have separate squads for kids that want to play a 5th year. Nobody objected that SFA keeps them on varsity?

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

What evidence do you have to back-up such a ridiculous claim?

The get the same treatment I have seen with other teams who have ref crews in their back pocket 

[VeniceIndianFan]

4 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

The get the same treatment I have seen with other teams who have ref crews in their back pocket 

Such as whom? 

[KeemD321]

1 hour ago, goblu said:

Sam Greene and Kameron Howard were freshman at Bishop McNamara High School in 2018.  Durell Robinson was a sophomore on the 2019 Bishop McNamara roster.  Donovan Dyson was a junior at St. Vincent Pallotti High School in 2020 and Kahari Finley was listed as a senior at Frederick Douglas High School in 2021 (he was actually on their JV roster as a 2022 in 2017) but may have ended up at Rock Creek for the 2021 season.

Again I ask where's the evidence of this and can you reference where you got the information? Can't just throw out allegations without any proof. 

[goblu]

14 minutes ago, KeemD321 said:

Again I ask where's the evidence of this and can you reference where you got the information? Can't just throw out allegations without any proof. 

https://www.hudl.com/profile/11771250/Samuel-Dudley-Greene/about

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/58186/Boys-JV-Football/team

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/12023/Boys-Varsity-Football/team

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/49780/Boys-Junior-Varsity/team

 

[VeniceIndianFan]

So, within about 10 posts the narrative changes from: Venice never should have scheduled SFA! To: The referees helped Venice keep it close! To: Referees are incompetent, corrupt, and are ruining football! To: Venice has their own set of referees that they use to taint football games! And finally: The only reason SFA beat Venice was because they are illegally allowing 5th year 19- and 20- year Olds to play on their varsity squad! What a disgraceful display of ignorance. 

Here's my take: SFA deserves all the credit they get and for what it's worth, I'm very glad that they are putting these young men in such fortuitous positions to succeed. In their football history, they have gone from struggling to compete with public schools in Maryland to being so damn scary that their own conference has boycotted them in a span of only 4 years. That is a pretty mind-blowing fact to wrap your head around! Going into the game, I thought Venice would have chances to stay in the game if they got off to a good start and didn't let the talent disparity shake them early on. All things considered, I thought Venice had an ok first half.  It fell apart after halftime, with SFA figuring out that Venice was filling the A and C gaps; they took advantage on the first play of the second half when Dejuan Williams burst thru the B gap between Tyler Lewis and Collin Adkins for a 75-yard touchdown. It was all downhill from there, with Venice getting only a few nice plays to keep the game respectable.

Yes, there were some questionable plays and penalties. Yes, Venice's fumble should have been a touchback, which I did not see in real time. Did it change the outcome of the game? NO! So why are people on this board so infatuated with this baseless idea that the referees ruined the game and are moreover tarnishing the game of football? It makes no sense to me.

 

[nolebull813]

2 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

Such as whom? 

The Pop Warner team my sons team played last week 

[VeniceIndianFan]

3 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

The Pop Warner team my sons team played last week 

So, in layman's terms: You have no evidence whatsoever that Venice has their own "taint team" of referees to change the outcome of games for them, and only made the statement to defame Venice because you are upset that a split-second fumble went their way. SMDH

[KeemD321]

53 minutes ago, goblu said:

https://www.hudl.com/profile/11771250/Samuel-Dudley-Greene/about

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/58186/Boys-JV-Football/team

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/12023/Boys-Varsity-Football/team

https://www.hudl.com/team/v2/49780/Boys-Junior-Varsity/team

 

So here's my rebuttal to the Hudl links. You putting that the Hudl accounts is evidence holds the same weight as using maxpreps rosters, rankings and schedules as evidence. Just like how scores and roster updates can be submitted by anyone. You do know the Hudl accounts are usually made by the players themselves. Proof being that the profiles are showing as being on a current team roster for a school they aren't even attending.

Do you live in the DMV area following the schools or did you look up rosters to check them out?