FHSAA seeding/ranking Q

[181pl]

Why rank/seed these teams? Seems like in the regional brackets the number one seed is playing a higher seeded team in its regional semi matchup than the lower rated seed in the opposite game? Thought the point was to keep teams playing in that format in the regional playoffs?

Looking at the brackets there are several examples of a 1 playing a 4 and a 2 playing a 5 or lower?

 

[Ray Icaza]

22 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Why rank/seed these teams? Seems like in the regional brackets the number one seed is playing a higher seeded team in its regional semi matchup than the lower rated seed in the opposite game? Thought the point was to keep teams playing in that format in the regional playoffs?

Looking at the brackets there are several examples of a 1 playing a 4 and a 2 playing a 5 or lower?

 

FHSAA rankings are "Slightly Off"??  Your example is present in our bracket as #1 Vero plays #4 Melbourne, while #2 Osceola plays #6 Treasure Coast.  Even though Vero has the "Higher" seed they are probably good with this opponent as opposed to Treasure Coast.   Thus your question is pointing out perceived accuracy in their ranking formula as we would have been playing #3 Martin County if they were really a better playoff team than Treasure Coast who thumped them last Friday in the first round.  

[181pl]

No my question was simply why aren’t the matchups in round 2 according to the seeding of the teams remaining?

For example, if there is a 1, 2, 4, and 7 left, it should be 1 v 7 and 2 v 4? But this didn’t happen? So it was simply bracketed in the regions once the playoffs started, regardless of the outcome of games (ie, no reseeding). 

[DarterBlue2]

4 minutes ago, 181pl said:

No my question was simply why aren’t the matchups in round 2 according to the seeding of the teams remaining?

For example, if there is a 1, 2, 4, and 7 left, it should be 1 v 7 and 2 v 4? But this didn’t happen? So it was simply bracketed in the regions once the playoffs started, regardless of the outcome of games (ie, no reseeding). 

Reseeding done only for semifinals. 

[Perspective]

28 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Reseeding done only for semifinals. 

Darter, I think you're correct.   But, to 181's point, why is the reseeding philosophy appropriate for semifinals?  If it makes sense to re-seed then, why doesn't it make sense to re-seed after every game?  

For the most part, these are rhetorical questions, as I believe you have accurately stated how it is. 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Darter, I think you're correct.   But, to 181's point, why is the reseeding philosophy appropriate for semifinals?  If it makes sense to re-seed then, why doesn't it make sense to re-seed after every game?  

For the most part, these are rhetorical questions, as I believe you have accurately stated how it is. 

His question is a good one. For that matter, each team's rank should be reevaluated after each playoff win. But like so many other things with this system, there are wide holes that need to be filled. I think there will further changes soon. If I am right, I hope they are for better and not worse.  

[Ray Icaza]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Darter, I think you're correct.   But, to 181's point, why is the reseeding philosophy appropriate for semifinals?  If it makes sense to re-seed then, why doesn't it make sense to re-seed after every game?  

For the most part, these are rhetorical questions, as I believe you have accurately stated how it is. 

UF Gatorman posed this same question as his lead for a thread this past Sunday.  I don't know the correct answer, but I believe Dr. D to be a reliable source and he states in the FHSAA rules the semi seedings are based on seedings at the end of the regular season.  No re-seeding takes place after the regionals are done.   So who is right??  Darter, this does not imply you are not a reliable source as I believe quite the opposite.

[Dr. D]

The reseeding is done after the regional finals are completed, using the end-of-regular season FHSAA Power Rankings.  The remaining 4 teams are seeded 1 vs. 4, 2 vs. 3 for the state semifinals.  Directly from the FHSAA Football Manual, and same procedure as last year.  

But there is no reason the regional semifinals could not be reseeded as well, if the desire was there.  The NFL essentially does the same thing after the first round of games, prior to the conference semifinals.

[DarterBlue2]

29 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

UF Gatorman posed this same question as his lead for a thread this past Sunday.  I don't know the correct answer, but I believe Dr. D to be a reliable source and he states in the FHSAA rules the semi seedings are based on seedings at the end of the regular season.  No re-seeding takes place after the regionals are done.   So who is right??  Darter, this does not imply you are not a reliable source as I believe quite the opposite.

The language I used was misleading. Dr. D's clarification immediately above is correct. It is what I intended to say, but did not. 

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

The reseeding is done after the regional finals are completed, using the end-of-regular season FHSAA Power Rankings.  The remaining 4 teams are seeded 1 vs. 4, 2 vs. 3 for the state semifinals.  Directly from the FHSAA Football Manual, and same procedure as last year.  

But there is no reason the regional semifinals could not be reseeded as well, if the desire was there.  The NFL essentially does the same thing after the first round of games, prior to the conference semifinals.

Just to be clear if I understand your description, they assign the #1 thru #4 seeding for the semi's WITHOUT taking into account the outcome of the 3 regional games.   If that is what you are describing essential there is no change as each team's relative rank remains the same.  A team like ours that was a #7 seed can become a #4 while a Bartram Trail #1 seed will stay a #1 if they win out. 

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, Ray Icaza said:

Just to be clear if I understand your description, they assign the #1 thru #4 seeding for the semi's WITHOUT taking into account the outcome of the 3 regional games.   If that is what you are describing essential there is no change as each team's relative rank remains the same.  A team like ours that was a #7 seed can become a #4 while a Bartram Trail #1 seed will stay a #1 if they win out. 

That's my interpretation; I believe it's his, too. But obviously I can't speak for him. 

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

That's my interpretation; I believe it's his, too. But obviously I can't speak for him. 

Then realistically, there is zero change in the seeding ORDER despite the results of the regional games. 

[DarterBlue2]

14 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Then realistically, there is zero change in the seeding ORDER despite the results of the regional games. 

Correct. But unlike the Regional semifinals and finals, at least the games are rebalanced with 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3, if you will. In short, the highest seeded team, theoretically, gets the worst team in its semifinal. Of course, this may not prove to be the case in all instances as I am sure some of the lowest seeded teams in the semis will make the final and perhaps one or two may even win it all. 

[Jesse]

49 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Correct. But unlike the Regional semifinals and finals, at least the games are rebalanced with 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3, if you will. In short, the highest seeded team, theoretically, gets the worst team in its semifinal. Of course, this may not prove to be the case in all instances as I am sure some of the lowest seeded teams in the semis will make the final and perhaps one or two may even win it all. 

Madison county all the way

[181pl]

I think the easiest way of saying this is that after each round, the highest remaining seed should play the lowest remaining seed at home. The other games would be set this way as well, the next higher seed plays the next lowest seed remaining. I’m talking within the regions. Then when they get out of regional play and into the semi finals, the FHSAA could reseed based on their rankings.

[Dr. D]

Sounds reasonable.  Need someone on the inside to take it to the Football Advisory Committee.  But as it stands now, the results of the regional quarterfinals, regional semifinals, and regional finals have no impact on the seeding for the state semifinals.  So hypothetically if Bartram Trail wins 4S-1, Lakeland 4S-2, Osceola 4S-3, and Venice 4S-4; then Osceola (#4) would play at Bartram Trail (#1), and Venice (#3) would play at Lakeland (#2) in the semifinals, based on the end-of-regular season Power Rankings.  But in the (unlikely) event that Lakeland lost to Lake Minneola, Osceola would become the #3 seed and play at #2 seed Venice.  So, there is an opportunity for teams to move up on the seed line, but it relies on higher ranked teams being upset.

[181pl]

How is BT rated higher than L? lol

[DarterBlue2]

3 minutes ago, 181pl said:

How is BT rated higher than L? lol

I believe they may actually deserve their ranking. But time will tell. Last year they had a very promising sophomore QB. He's now a junior and has largely fulfilled his promise. 

[181pl]

3 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

I believe they may actually deserve their ranking. But time will tell. Last year they had a very promising sophomore QB. He's now a junior and has largely fulfilled his promise. 

if they survive and the game is played at BT, then they probably have a punchers chance. But I would certainly favor Lakeland

[Ray Icaza]

11 minutes ago, 181pl said:

How is BT rated higher than L? lol

According to the FHSAA, they have a slightly better strength of schedule than Lakeland and both are undefeated.  One could make the argument for them to be reversed but undoubtedly, they are the top 2 teams in 4S based on the results on the field.   Plus, there is little advantage in who is seeded higher as they both stay home for the entirety of the playoffs until the championship at a neutral site. 

[Ray Icaza]

39 minutes ago, 181pl said:

if they survive and the game is played at BT, then they probably have a punchers chance. But I would certainly favor Lakeland

That scenario is mathematically impossible.