Maybe the FHSAA got it right?

[gatorman-uf]

OK it hurts me to say this, but maybe the FHSAA ranking system is better than we gave it credit for? If the rankings were perfect, we would expect that the regional finals would be made up of only #1 and #2 seeds. Now, we know that a perfectly chalk bracket never happens in any sport, but the FHSAA rankings did pretty well.

4M: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 3 more being the #3 seed
3M: 7/8 were #1/2 and the other team being a #3
2M: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed
1M: (Skipping until next round as they only played 1 game, not enough time for chaos)
4S: 6/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
3S: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed
2S: 7/8 were #1/2 and the other team being a #3
1S: (Skipping until next round as they only played 1 game, not enough time for chaos)
1R: 6/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed

Overall: 38/56 for 68% and 12 more #3 seeds

I would still prefer a system with more transparency.
I would also note that after regionals, I don't think any ranking system truly matters, because to get to the final four you must be good and the differences so small that anything can happen. 

[DisabledAccount]

54 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

OK it hurts me to say this, but maybe the FHSAA ranking system is better than we gave it credit for? If the rankings were perfect, we would expect that the regional finals would be made up of only #1 and #2 seeds. Now, we know that a perfectly chalk bracket never happens in any sport, but the FHSAA rankings did pretty well.

4M: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 3 more being the #3 seed
3M: 7/8 were #1/2 and the other team being a #3
2M: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed
1M: (Skipping until next round as they only played 1 game, not enough time for chaos)
4S: 6/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
3S: 4/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed
2S: 7/8 were #1/2 and the other team being a #3
1S: (Skipping until next round as they only played 1 game, not enough time for chaos)
1R: 6/8 were #1 or #2 seeds, with 2 more being the #3 seed

Overall: 38/56 for 68% and 12 more #3 seeds

I would still prefer a system with more transparency.
I would also note that after regionals, I don't think any ranking system truly matters, because to get to the final four you must be good and the differences so small that anything can happen. 

How do these numbers compare to the transparent RPI from last year?

[181pl]

Maybe. Home field is big in the playoffs and mostly home teams won. District champs having home field occurs regardless. Difference with seedings is you play at the higher seed after the first round as opposed to traveling up or down the bracket as in years past. 

I kind of liked it when the perceived favorite travelled to another district champ up or down the bracket. Made that favorite prove it through adversity and made them better for the Final.

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Maybe. Home field is big in the playoffs and mostly home teams won. District champs having home field occurs regardless. Difference with seedings is you play at the higher seed after the first round as opposed to traveling up or down the bracket as in years past. 

I kind of liked it when the perceived favorite travelled to another district champ up or down the bracket. Made that favorite prove it through adversity and made them better for the Final.

So 9-1 teams should have to travel to 4-6 teams they already beat during the season ON THE ROAD just because "well your on the top of the bracket this year and we don't want to hurt this teams feelings by telling them they didn't actually earn the right to host and are only hosting because we have the creative mindset of a chimpmunk with a bracket that's barely good enough for a middle school playoff much less the high school playoff bracket in THE BEST FOOTBALL STATE IN THE COUNTRY" 

 

If a team wants to host they gotta win during the season, in Columbia case (even though Friday proved they were better than Escambia by beating Escambia in Pensacola and should have been the 2 seed) they did travel and win and now are highest seed left and get to play at home

[DisabledAccount]

What I would be curious about is if someone from GA can explain their postseason bracket as you have teams traveling across the state every round because of some weird setup but it allows for teams in the same county to play in the finals if they survive the gauntlet

[gatorman-uf]

20 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So 9-1 teams should have to travel to 4-6 teams they already beat during the season ON THE ROAD just because "well your on the top of the bracket this year and we don't want to hurt this teams feelings by telling them they didn't actually earn the right to host and are only hosting because we have the creative mindset of a chimpmunk with a bracket that's barely good enough for a middle school playoff much less the high school playoff bracket in THE BEST FOOTBALL STATE IN THE COUNTRY" 

Let it go dude. It has been over 5 years for the one time that you had to travel (like every other team).

[gatorman-uf]

RPI System not as good as ensuring "top seeds" win out. 


2021:
8A: 6/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
7A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
6A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 2 teams being a #3
5A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 3 teams being a #3
4A: 2/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
3A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
2A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
1A: 2/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four

28/52 or 58.3%

 

2019

8A: 3/8 were #1/2 and 3 teams being a #3
7A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 2 teams being a #3
6A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
5A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 0 teams being a #3
4A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
3A: 1/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
2A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
1A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four

28/52 or 58.3%

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

Let it go dude. It has been over 5 years for the one time that you had to travel (like every other team).

I point it out because it's a perfect example of why top/bottom failed as a "seeding system" and should have been changed 

[DisabledAccount]

People always want to get on their high horse and talk about teams having to EARN their playoff spot by being top 2 in a district but are wanting to flip their argument to teams being entitled to a host right because of some archaic system of flipping the bracket each year when it was just as easy to have a seeding system like now (even if it can be argued if RPI or point system was just as effective while being more transparent) 

 

You have seeding at every level of college or pro sports and it works so why would it not work in high school?

[181pl]

2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So 9-1 teams should have to travel to 4-6 teams they already beat during the season ON THE ROAD just because "well your on the top of the bracket this year and we don't want to hurt this teams feelings by telling them they didn't actually earn the right to host and are only hosting because we have the creative mindset of a chimpmunk with a bracket that's barely good enough for a middle school playoff much less the high school playoff bracket in THE BEST FOOTBALL STATE IN THE COUNTRY" 

 

If a team wants to host they gotta win during the season, in Columbia case (even though Friday proved they were better than Escambia by beating Escambia in Pensacola and should have been the 2 seed) they did travel and win and now are highest seed left and get to play at home

you seem to be having a problem with reading comprehension lately. I said I kind of liked it when it happened. It made good teams go on the road and get tougher in the playoffs. Endless debate gets us nowhere. I’m gonna have my opinions and you’re gonna have yours. Good luck to your Tigers. Hopefully they can beat choctow so you have something to root for for another week.

[181pl]

Legitimate seeding is mostly found in pro sports and is based solely on records and nothing else. It’s not a group of nerds getting together to decide who should be ranked higher than somebody else. In the NCAA it’s necessary for basketball because there are so many teams. In college football it’s subjective nonsense based on trying to get the most attractive TV matchups. In high school it’s not a very good idea.  Best ways is for a District champ and District runner-up to qualify and then you move up and down the bracket. The same applies to everyone and can change year to year. If a great team has to go on the road to beat a mediocre team so be it.

Again, my opinion.

[Dr. D]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

RPI System not as good as ensuring "top seeds" win out. 


2021:
8A: 6/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
7A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
6A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 2 teams being a #3
5A: 4/8 were #1/2 and 3 teams being a #3
4A: 2/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
3A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
2A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
1A: 2/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four

28/52 or 58.3%

 

2019

8A: 3/8 were #1/2 and 3 teams being a #3
7A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 2 teams being a #3
6A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 1 team being a #3
5A: 5/8 were #1/2 and 0 teams being a #3
4A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
3A: 1/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
2A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four
1A: 3/4 were #1 seed ****#1 and 2 seeds received 1st round byes, so I am only looking at Final Four

28/52 or 58.3%

You are conflating 2 variables.  The seeding is different this year because it is the first year that the FHSAA did not award automatic top-4 seeds to all district winners.  The seeding is more accurate this year for the simple reason that there are no more "undeserving" district winners with a top-4 seeds.  They are now seeded 5, 6, 7, or 8 where they belong.  With more accurate seeding, one would expect a higher proportion of higher seeds advancing compared to last year.  You can't say definitively whether the FHSAA Power Rankings were any more accurate than last year's RPI would have been in the same circumstances.  The use of the word "Maybe" in the topic line is about the best you can say.  At least we agree on the transparency issue, or lack thereof.  

[VeniceIndianFan]

9 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Legitimate seeding is mostly found in pro sports and is based solely on records and nothing else. It’s not a group of nerds getting together to decide who should be ranked higher than somebody else. In the NCAA it’s necessary for basketball because there are so many teams. In college football it’s subjective nonsense based on trying to get the most attractive TV matchups. In high school it’s not a very good idea.  Best ways is for a District champ and District runner-up to qualify and then you move up and down the bracket. The same applies to everyone and can change year to year. If a great team has to go on the road to beat a mediocre team so be it.

Again, my opinion.

But didn't Gadsen County make the playoffs at 0-10 a couple years ago as a runner-up? Not saying that your opinion is without merit, but I don't think that a runner-up who finishes 2-8 or similar automatically ought to get a playoff berth; much less deserve to host a playoff game. 

[DisabledAccount]

19 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Legitimate seeding is mostly found in pro sports and is based solely on records and nothing else. It’s not a group of nerds getting together to decide who should be ranked higher than somebody else. In the NCAA it’s necessary for basketball because there are so many teams. In college football it’s subjective nonsense based on trying to get the most attractive TV matchups. In high school it’s not a very good idea.  Best ways is for a District champ and District runner-up to qualify and then you move up and down the bracket. The same applies to everyone and can change year to year. If a great team has to go on the road to beat a mediocre team so be it.

Again, my opinion.

And that's your opinion which you have a right to even though I'll never agree with it but I at least respect the fact you are consistent with it 

 

Personally I feel the postseason has more transparency with the seeding and I like knowing based on where my team is seeded what games we would host without having to check the flipped bracket variable every week and all the combustion of it 

 

Regardless that seems to be set for all sports going forward and they don't plan to go back as most teams prefer having seeding to reward teams for their entire season performance

[Dr. D]

3 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

What I would be curious about is if someone from GA can explain their postseason bracket as you have teams traveling across the state every round because of some weird setup but it allows for teams in the same county to play in the finals if they survive the gauntlet

To answer your question, having lived in Georgia, it is a somewhat confusing but interesting system.  Each class has 8 regions (think "districts") with 6-8 teams per region.  Round-robin play with top 4 teams advancing based on region record.  So 32-team bracket.  One team from each region is placed in each of the four 8-team sub-brackets, cross-seeded with the adjacent region.  Bottom line is all 4 teams from a single region could conceivably qualify for the state semifinals (as could 2 teams from the same region qualify for the finals).  As this is not easily explained in words, view brackets on GHSAA website if you want a visual.   

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

To answer your question, having lived in Georgia, it is a somewhat confusing but interesting system.  Each class has 8 regions (think "districts") with 6-8 teams per region.  Round-robin play with top 4 teams advancing based on region record.  So 32-team bracket.  One team from each region is placed in each of the four 8-team sub-brackets, cross-seeded with the adjacent region.  Bottom line is all 4 teams from a single region could conceivably qualify for the state semifinals (as could 2 teams from the same region qualify for the finals).  As this is not easily explained in words, view brackets on GHSAA website if you want a visual.   

Do they have a standard for seeding?

[Dan in Daytona]

20 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

To answer your question, having lived in Georgia, it is a somewhat confusing but interesting system.  Each class has 8 regions (think "districts") with 6-8 teams per region.  Round-robin play with top 4 teams advancing based on region record.  So 32-team bracket.  One team from each region is placed in each of the four 8-team sub-brackets, cross-seeded with the adjacent region.  Bottom line is all 4 teams from a single region could conceivably qualify for the state semifinals (as could 2 teams from the same region qualify for the finals).  As this is not easily explained in words, view brackets on GHSAA website if you want a visual.   

I like the crisscrossing. Sorry your school can't afford it......wash some more cars. Also that Miami Central could play Miami Northwestern in the final. Or any number of neighboring powerhouses from the same area. ....SB ? 

[Dr. D]

57 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Do they have a standard for seeding?

Initially teams in the 8 regions (= Florida "districts") are seeded #1 - #4 based on their region records, head-to-head.  In the first round, #1 plays #4 in adjacent region, #2 plays #3, etc.  After the first round, you would play a team from a non-adjacent region.  The brackets are predetermined by region and region seed, so there is no overall seeding per se.  If the two "best" teams happen to be in the same region, it allows the possibility they could meet in the state finals, rather than in the Florida Regional finals.  Confused? 

[181pl]

7 hours ago, VeniceIndiansFootball said:

But didn't Gadsen County make the playoffs at 0-10 a couple years ago as a runner-up? Not saying that your opinion is without merit, but I don't think that a runner-up who finishes 2-8 or similar automatically ought to get a playoff berth; much less deserve to host a playoff game. 

You have to go back to previous conversations on this. I'm never for districts with less than 6 teams. 7 or 8 would be ideal. The Gadsen example can never happen in a sane world. That was the product of too many classes and the FHSAA being oversensitive to teams having to get on a bus to go and play...

[Manatee Magic]

The best era was when it only went up to 5A right when they added another playoff round and started letting runners-up in the playoffs.