NAUGHTS SURVIVE

[Ray Icaza]

If you wanted to watch 2 tremendous defensive teams you needed to be in Lakeland tonight.  Not sure what their mindset was as maybe they thought the first game was a fluke and they would just blow us out as they had the other 11 teams on their schedule but nothing could be further from the truth.  They continually hurt themselves (trash talking, etc.) drawing 5 Unsportsmanlike Penalties during the game.   We actually ran the ball against them better than I thought we would and though I don't know the stats may have outgained them overall.  Final score was 14-7 with them mounting one drive the entire game which was an impressive 16-17 play 89 yard drive for their first TD in the 3rd quarter tying the game.  Their second score was a 60 yard TD run by Tyler Williams which ended up being the margin of victory.   Outside that, we kept their running attack in check all night.   I believe we had 3 or 4 time consuming drives of our own getting into the red zone twice and coming up empty on interceptions.  Each of those picks it appeared that our QB and WR weren't on the same page as both times it was thrown directly to the defender with the WR nowhere in the area.   We just shot ourselves in the foot on a couple of plays which could have changed the outcome.  My hats off to our tremendous group of seniors that have given us 3 years of outstanding teams with hopes of a state title, but it just wasn't to be.  Good luck to Lakeland in the finals. 

[Nulli Secundus]

26 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

If you wanted to watch 2 tremendous defensive teams you needed to be in Lakeland tonight.  Not sure what their mindset was as maybe they thought the first game was a fluke and they would just blow us out as they had the other 11 teams on their schedule but nothing could be further from the truth.  They continually hurt themselves (trash talking, etc.) drawing 5 Unsportsmanlike Penalties during the game.   We actually ran the ball against them better than I thought we would and though I don't know the stats may have outgained them overall.  Final score was 14-7 with them mounting one drive the entire game which was an impressive 16-17 play 89 yard drive for their first TD in the 3rd quarter tying the game.  Their second score was a 60 yard TD run by Tyler Williams which ended up being the margin of victory.   Outside that, we kept their running attack in check all night.   I believe we had 3 or 4 time consuming drives of our own getting into the red zone twice and coming up empty on interceptions.  Each of those picks it appeared that our QB and WR weren't on the same page as both times it was thrown directly to the defender with the WR nowhere in the area.   We just shot ourselves in the foot on a couple of plays which could have changed the outcome.  My hats off to our tremendous group of seniors that have given us 3 years of outstanding teams with hopes of a state title, but it just wasn't to be.  Good luck to Lakeland in the finals. 

When I get nervous, I get quiet.  This Lakeland team should be blowing people away but for the reasons you've outlined they have hurt themselves all season and that can be a killer in tight games.  Congratulations on the Kowboys season.  Great rivalry!!

[Ray Icaza]

1 minute ago, Nulli Secundus said:

When I get nervous, I get quiet.  This Lakeland team should be bowing people away but for the reasons you've outlined that they have struggled with all season, that can be a killer in tight games.  Congratulations on the Kowboys season.  Great rivalry!!

It definitely is, you have any inside info if they are returning the favor and traveling to Kissimmee next year?

[Nulli Secundus]

8 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

It definitely is, you have any inside info if they are returning the favor and traveling to Kissimmee next year?

I would like to say yes but I'm not sure what provisions were made for that series. I'll find out before I say anything.

[Beek]

Please understand this is just my outside opinion. I was at the game. Saw everything. Osceola should have won that game easy if in my opinion there weren't a few play calling mistakes. The first one was a big momentum shift. Osceola had 2nd and 1 very close to the endzone, (dont recall the exact yard, but inside the 15 for sure) They passed the ball!  The run is what got them there and they were moving the ball well on the ground. The pass was way off target and was picked off and started Lakeland's comeback. Had Osceola scored, which it looked very likely they would have been up 14-0 (assuming extra point).

Lakeland would have been in panic mode to try and make up 2 scores in a very short time. The second one was the "trick play". 4th and 4 in the red zone with the game on the line! Do what got you there! rely on your runners! Wouldnt have been 4th and 4 had they not attempted a pass earlier in the series. 

Understand, it is easy to be a armchair coach. (I am somewhat qualified though) I am not criticizing the coaches or play calls. Just giving my opinion. Same thing goes for "prevent defense"  all that does is prevent you from winning. Stick to what got you there and your teams strengths. 

Also Congratulations to EP for Osceola county coach of the year. Well done!

[badbird]

QB had a bad game.  2nd and 1 play was the momentum changer for sure.  He had a guy open in the flats but decided to throw across his body to no one, well no one in white.  State semi's on the road and you turn it over 3-4 times you usually won't win especially playing against Bill Castle, who by the way passed Corky Rogers as the all time winningest coach in Florida last week.  

Congrats to Coach EP on a great year but this was expected out of Osceola.  Coach Beek you should have been the county coach of the year.   I hope to see Poinciana back in a district soon and on the rise.  

[Beek]

1 hour ago, badbird said:

QB had a bad game.  2nd and 1 play was the momentum changer for sure.  He had a guy open in the flats but decided to throw across his body to no one, well no one in white.  State semi's on the road and you turn it over 3-4 times you usually won't win especially playing against Bill Castle, who by the way passed Corky Rogers as the all time winningest coach in Florida last week.  

Congrats to Coach EP on a great year but this was expected out of Osceola.  Coach Beek you should have been the county coach of the year.   I hope to see Poinciana back in a district soon and on the rise.  

I appreciate the vote of confidence on county coach of the year, but overcoming the stigma of poinciana is hard to do!   Should be, county coaching staff of the year. Couldnt do what i do without a great staff! We do hope to have a similar season next year. If we are able to continue in this direction. It is my plan to enter district play on the next 2 year cycle. 

[Ray Icaza]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:45 AM, Beek said:

Please understand this is just my outside opinion. I was at the game. Saw everything. Osceola should have won that game easy if in my opinion there weren't a few play calling mistakes. The first one was a big momentum shift. Osceola had 2nd and 1 very close to the endzone, (dont recall the exact yard, but inside the 15 for sure) They passed the ball!  The run is what got them there and they were moving the ball well on the ground. The pass was way off target and was picked off and started Lakeland's comeback. Had Osceola scored, which it looked very likely they would have been up 14-0 (assuming extra point).

Lakeland would have been in panic mode to try and make up 2 scores in a very short time. The second one was the "trick play". 4th and 4 in the red zone with the game on the line! Do what got you there! rely on your runners! Wouldnt have been 4th and 4 had they not attempted a pass earlier in the series. 

Understand, it is easy to be a armchair coach. (I am somewhat qualified though) I am not criticizing the coaches or play calls. Just giving my opinion. Same thing goes for "prevent defense"  all that does is prevent you from winning. Stick to what got you there and your teams strengths. 

Also Congratulations to EP for Osceola county coach of the year. Well done!

Will start by saying I truly respect Coach Beek's opinion, but I have to disagree that our Kowboys should have won that game EASY.   Lakeland is an extremely talented team that in my opinion should be favored in a couple of weeks vs Venice. They do need better discipline as a team and if anything that could be their downfall.  If Coach meant we could have won or should have won that game and outplayed Lakeland, I would agree with that assessment.  The other disagreement I would have is his questioning the play calling as opposed to the execution.  The example he gives on our opening drive of the 3rd quarter where another TD would have definitely put the foot on Lakeland's neck when down on about the 15 yard line was not a bad play call.  Yes, we were pretty successful moving the ball on the ground on that drive to get to that second and 1 or 2.  Going for the jugular thru the air on that second down knowing if it failed you still have 2 more DOWNS to pick up a first on the ground in my humble opinion was a good call.  What possessed our QB to not just throw it away when the primary target was covered rather than lofting a lazy pass into the middle of the end zone where the only player in the area was a defender was a bad decision on his part, not a bad play call.  Not taking anything away from Lakeland's all world secondary, but all 3 of their INT's were on similar bad decisions by our QB  rather than great defensive prowess.  As I stated in the beginning, we ran the ball well this game opposed to the first game but I think that was due to us mixing it up with a good amount of passing.  The double reverse at the end I could see someone questioning as that was asking alot in a pressure situation to execute.  Since stats for Osceola have not been posted for this game I can only give you an opinion that I believe we probably had roughly 125-150 yards on the ground and about the same thru the air (good balance).  So to say our success was the ground game is inaccurate.  Lakeland has posted their stats and these are their numbers:  38 yards passing and 157 rushing for a total of 195 with 65 or so coming on 1 play on the ground.   These numbers as opposed to their usual offensive output against all 11 of their other opponents reflects the sentiment of who should have won.  

[Beek]

What I meant by easy, was had you scored at that point it would have been very difficult for them to have a comeback and score 3 times with the momentum on Osceola's side.

Your momentum was on the ground side. Your running back was gashing them almost every run. Yes there were successful throws. and was balanced by yards gained. But big plays versus grinding it out, ball control, playing keep away from the other team.  

What i was questioning in the play calling is taking into account the quarterbacks decision making. Not the actual play call. But when the QB is likely to do what he did. I dont know if i would have made that play call with so much on the line. Again, just my arm-chair opinion, I was not in the seat, having to make that decision in real time. Just my opinion.

[Ray Icaza]

40 minutes ago, Beek said:

What I meant by easy, was had you scored at that point it would have been very difficult for them to have a comeback and score 3 times with the momentum on Osceola's side.

Your momentum was on the ground side. Your running back was gashing them almost every run. Yes there were successful throws. and was balanced by yards gained. But big plays versus grinding it out, ball control, playing keep away from the other team.  

What i was questioning in the play calling is taking into account the quarterbacks decision making. Not the actual play call. But when the QB is likely to do what he did. I dont know if i would have made that play call with so much on the line. Again, just my arm-chair opinion, I was not in the seat, having to make that decision in real time. Just my opinion.

I concurred with the importance of that second score, especially coming out of half-time so no disagreement there.  Taevion Swint (our lead and top producing back) according to our local paper gained 108 yards on 25 carries; that is a tough and grind it out 4 yards per carry against one of the best defenses in the state.  At least in my view that doesn't qualify for "gashing them almost every run".   Secondly, if the QB is likely to do what he did why would you throw the ball on any down?  I like you was in those stands sitting directly on the 50 yard line about 6 rows up, but unlike you I not only played for Osceola but been a close observer of our team for 50 plus years.  Before Coach EP and company started mixing in more passing (past 2 years) we have basically been a RUN ONLY offense which led to our demise in state championship games against great defensive teams.  Sometimes in lopsided fashion.   The only couple of years in recent memory that the offense opened was under Coach Rolson, a defensive minded coach which we didn't really need as we have always been stout in that category.  What he did do was hire an excellent OC in Ty Ensor who's playing calling was brilliant and who wasn't afraid to throw the ball when we not only had one of our best RB's ever in Bubba Brown but also had T' Bell pulling the strings at QB.  Those years we even beat Lakeland and probably would have had a good shot at beating STA in the championship had T' Bell not got injured vs Bartram Trail in the semi's the week before.  For whatever reason we seem to have good RB's but God Bless EP and company for opening it up more. 

[h8r]

while I agree with the opening it up more,

but riddle me this batman, the games lost, wasnt it due to interceptions/turnovers by the offense?  maybe Im wrong,

but

that ancient offense that coach Nichols ran, sure did alot of damage vs almost everyone.  

nobody runs that 1970s offesne anymore and similar to single wing, which apk, coach rolson,  is a testament to this, as is Coach Darlington at 1st year deland, who almost beat ohs,

you cant prepare for it in 3 days.....timing, execution angle blocks, etc.

what beats that boring offense that CAN open up when needed-see Ty Ensor comment- is jimmies and joes.  not xs and os.  doesnt matter what offense or defense you run, if my dudes are better, then you get your face kicked in or win by 1, 

i say that if the cowboys with the K ran the flexbone last year vs west orange, they would have won.

i can also see the state champ wrestler being a triple option qb that would thrive in that offense, him and swint on the edge in a triple look, good friggin luck stopping that.  throw in the dudes at db/wr that yall got and you cant line up 8 in the box to stop it.....

open it up and start looking just like everyone else.  which isnt easy to prep for, but is easier if you see it every week.

just sayin

h8r

[Ray Icaza]

Robin, Our Lone State Championship was in 1998 under Coach Scible and it featured Willie Green out of the I-formation.  With an athletic, big QB (Bobby Sippio) available to run and throw that was hard to defend.  I love Coach Nick but his brilliant Single-Wing has zero championships in 4 attempts.  But I guess you must be right to continue doing the things you have always done and expect a different outcome.  Think they have a name for that but at my advanced age I forget.  Just Saying.

[Ray Icaza]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:33 AM, Nulli Secundus said:

I would like to say yes but I'm not sure what provisions were made for that series. I'll find out before I say anything.

Nulli, just saw a nice article in our local paper emphasizing the great football rivalry between the two schools and was thrilled to learn that Lakeland is reciprocating with a regular season game at our place next year.  Will definitely be different squads but expect another great game where I hope we can gain ground on the overall record.  Again, good luck in the finals as I think the Naughts ground game will be the difference.

[h8r]

On 12/6/2022 at 12:36 PM, Ray Icaza said:

Robin, Our Lone State Championship was in 1998 under Coach Scible and it featured Willie Green out of the I-formation.  With an athletic, big QB (Bobby Sippio) available to run and throw that was hard to defend.  I love Coach Nick but his brilliant Single-Wing has zero championships in 4 attempts.  But I guess you must be right to continue doing the things you have always done and expect a different outcome.  Think they have a name for that but at my advanced age I forget.  Just Saying.

Well Batman,

I shall call em like I see em......

Coach Nichols, did, not, run, the, single wing......

And yes zero championships,

but bewteen him and Coach Rolson, getting there more than 4x, sure is not insanity.....

You have to be in the big game in order to be able to win the big game.  With all those major d1 kids running around at markus paul field, you sure would think that running that saturday afternoon offense would produce at the very least, a shot to win it in the big game.  2x2, 3x1, teams see it weekly, if not daily.  easy to figure out how to defend it.  ask anyone with a backside in the stands, they will tell you.  

those same people cant even find the ball in a good flexbone and swear to the holy man that trap and power are the same play and why not "open it up" to win via the pass.....dare that wing t team run counter criss cross and it goes untouched as 10 guys flow to the buck sweep, and that same "open it up guy" calls it a gimmick play and would never work vs a real team or better coached team....

Flexbone is not single wing, nor is single wing the wing t as is double tight double wing, is none of those either.

some similar principles, sure, maybe, kinda, but definetly not the same.

the amount of teams that win state titles in the country running wing t, flexbone, single wing, is overwhelmingly larger than those trying to fit a square hole into a round peg and run the spread(is that an offense or a formation?).....

heaven forbid we look at corky rogers and his incredible amount of wins and what did he run at jax bolles......the delaware wing t.....he did kinda good.....won a couple titles with it.

h8r

 

[badbird]

In 2014 and 2015 Osceola ran into two of the best defenses ever seen in the state of Florida in STA 2014 and Flanagan 2015.  

 

[Ray Icaza]

4 hours ago, h8r said:

Well Batman,

I shall call em like I see em......

Coach Nichols, did, not, run, the, single wing......

And yes zero championships,

but bewteen him and Coach Rolson, getting there more than 4x, sure is not insanity.....

You have to be in the big game in order to be able to win the big game.  With all those major d1 kids running around at markus paul field, you sure would think that running that saturday afternoon offense would produce at the very least, a shot to win it in the big game.  2x2, 3x1, teams see it weekly, if not daily.  easy to figure out how to defend it.  ask anyone with a backside in the stands, they will tell you.  

those same people cant even find the ball in a good flexbone and swear to the holy man that trap and power are the same play and why not "open it up" to win via the pass.....dare that wing t team run counter criss cross and it goes untouched as 10 guys flow to the buck sweep, and that same "open it up guy" calls it a gimmick play and would never work vs a real team or better coached team....

Flexbone is not single wing, nor is single wing the wing t as is double tight double wing, is none of those either.

some similar principles, sure, maybe, kinda, but definetly not the same.

the amount of teams that win state titles in the country running wing t, flexbone, single wing, is overwhelmingly larger than those trying to fit a square hole into a round peg and run the spread(is that an offense or a formation?).....

heaven forbid we look at corky rogers and his incredible amount of wins and what did he run at jax bolles......the delaware wing t.....he did kinda good.....won a couple titles with it.

h8r

 

Well professor, thanks for the quick education on offensive nomenclature as I plead ignorance.   However, it does seem to appear that you do agree that whatever formation running the ball 92-93% of time could use some balance.  That is the only point I was trying to make as when I pulled the stats that are available under Coach Nick this is exactly what we did and against the very best defenses you're chances of success diminish.  That all changed three years ago as during his final year we did increase our passing to about 35% and we have continued that trend the last 2 years which I wholeheartedly support.  In addition, your implication of turnovers as the cause of our losses is a bit simplistic.  The only team that was true was our loss to Jones who I felt we were definitely better than.  Early in the season Seminole was a better team than us and we lost due to poor blocking on a game winning PAT, which led to the loss in OT.  Turnovers had zero impact on that outcome.  As for Lakeland, they were higher ranked all year and no poll had us ahead of them or favored in either game.  The first game the TO's were even 4 vs 4 but definitely affected the outcome in the semi's.   If however we would have tried to run the ball against them 92-93% of the time in my humble opinion their margin of victory would have been more lopsided.  The passing kept them off balance and I feel for the young man that wishes he had those 3 throws back. 

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, badbird said:

In 2014 and 2015 Osceola ran into two of the best defenses ever seen in the state of Florida in STA 2014 and Flanagan 2015.  

 

Badbird, you WILL be excited for all of the State Championship games over the next two weeks. I expect and demand nothing less! 

[badbird]

12 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Badbird, you WILL be excited for all of the State Championship games over the next two weeks. I expect and demand nothing less! 

Sorry to disappoint but I will not watch or follow any of them.  I'm pulling for Mainland and Apopka other than that I could care less about the others.

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, badbird said:

Sorry to disappoint but I will not watch or follow any of them.  I'm pulling for Mainland and Apopka other than that I could care less about the others.

All right, I will allow that this time. I will tell you about that Apopka-Columbus game, one team will be ready for the game, and will perform. That, I am very confident about.