FHSAA sets points system in stone

[09mrslick]

So potentially this could be the new 4A with some of these schools.

 

Booker T. Washington

Miami Edison

Miami Jackson

Hallandale

Cocoa

Glades Central

Raines

Rickards

Bishop Moore

Monsignor Edward Pace

American Heritage (Plantation)

Cardinal Gibbons

Bolles

[DisabledAccount]

So potentially this could be the new 4A with some of these schools.

 

Booker T. Washington

Miami Edison

Miami Jackson

Hallandale

Cocoa

Glades Central

Raines

Rickards

Bishop Moore

Monsignor Edward Pace

American Heritage (Plantation)

Cardinal Gibbons

Bolles

Bolles and AHP are both private and would be 5a in shark scenario

 

 

Same with bishop morre

[BrowardHandicapper]

Bolles and AHP are both private and would be 5a in shark scenario

 

 

Same with bishop morre

Lucky for them - with those teams.  Those PUBLIC teams.

[954gator]

This is going to be a complete disaster. We have the dumbest bunch of idiots running the fhsaa. The solutions are very simple.

 

 

5. Two champions bowls at the end of the playoffs. Optional participation. Can invite out of state teams if a champ bows out.

This would be pretty damn awesome IMO. 

[Zoe Boy]

There is no "competing" with...I don't want to go down this road again but kids (and their parents influience) actually want to go to schools like AHP for more than football. Some take advantage of the opportunity to be part of a great football program and academic program.....While some want to stay put at their "home" or public school.....You could only relate if you live in Broward or Dade but this concept of a school like AHP is recruiting all of the best players is overblown. I can name 5-10 public schools last year in Broward and Dade that put out as much or more D1 talent than AHP. If AHP has all of the talent then why does the best WR ( Deerfield Beach) and DB (Flanagan) in Broward play for public schools? How much better are AHP's RBs than Carol City or Miami Centrals ? How many QBs are as good as the AHP QB in SFL? AHP is stacked at secondary , I'll give you that.

 

If I told you Southridge has 18 Seniors with FBS offers and 11 of them were 3* recruits or higher would you believe me? Probably not because everyone is too busy counting heads at AHP assuming they are hoarding all of the best players. Unless you live down here, it is very hard to relate.

 

I'll bet you that the BTW versus Cocoa PUBLIC, Carol City versus Mainland PUBLIC game both have more talent on the field and FBS recruits combined than the AHP versus Bishop Moore PRIVATE game! Yet the private schools are "recruiting" all of the talent Heck, probably Delray Atlantic versus Deerfield Beach and Southridge versus Coral Gables do as well

 

Can anyone explain how all of that talent escaped from the Private schools?

They will never understand lol....

[09mrslick]

The private school factor only works in Broward. Blanche Ely is struggling just to win one game and Dillard can never pass the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs because the talent they have went elsewhere. Granted privates get kids but so does public schools. Boyd Anderson and Deerfield Beach I'm sure got some kids in.

 

Dade is way different. The powerhouse private school is Columbus which is down south so they only gravitate towards the Coral Gables, Southridge, Killian, Homestead and South Dade kids. Columbus will never be able to touch Carol City, Central, Northwestern, Jackson and Booker T. Washington area kids. For starters it's proximity and secondly it's school pride. A lot of these kids won't be able to get back and forth to school if they play for Columbus and a lot of kids want to play for their school/neighborhood.

[DarterBlue2]

There is no "competing" with...I don't want to go down this road again but kids (and their parents influience) actually want to go to schools like AHP for more than football.  Some take advantage of the opportunity to be part of a great football program and academic program.....While some want to stay put at their "home" or public school.....You could only relate if you live in Broward or Dade but this concept of a school like AHP is recruiting all of the best players is overblown.  I can name 5-10 public schools last year in Broward and Dade that put out as much or more D1 talent than AHP. If AHP has all of the talent then why does the best WR ( Deerfield Beach)  and DB (Flanagan)  in Broward play for public schools?  How much better are AHP's RBs than Carol City or Miami Centrals  ?  How many QBs are as good as the AHP QB in SFL?  AHP is stacked at secondary , I'll give you that. 

 

If I told you Southridge has 18 Seniors with FBS offers and 11 of them were 3* recruits or higher would you believe me?  Probably not because everyone is too busy counting heads at AHP assuming they are hoarding all of the best players.  Unless you live down here, it is very hard to relate.

 

I'll bet you that the BTW versus Cocoa PUBLIC, Carol City versus Mainland PUBLIC game both have more talent on the field and FBS recruits combined than the AHP versus Bishop Moore PRIVATE game!  Yet the private schools are "recruiting" all of the talent   Heck, probably Delray Atlantic versus Deerfield Beach and Southridge versus Coral Gables do as well 

 

Can anyone explain how all of that talent escaped from the Private schools?

It would escape from the Privates due to limitations on how many financial aid packages the Private can afford, and just how deep a roster they really want/need to be super competitive. That, and the fact that not all kids may be interested in what the Privates have to offer.

 

Dade/Broward is kind of unique in that the size of this urban area leads to a unique concentration of talent within a relatively small geographic boundary. Only the Tampa, Orlando and Jax metro areas could hope to compete for that kind of talent. Jax has Bolles and Trinity Christian, but Tampa has several Privates competing for the talent there and none have monopolized the landscape the way a Aquinas or recently a AHP has. And, until recently with Bishop Moore, the Orlando area Privates have not seriously made having a top flight program a priority. 

[Floridatech]

Yeah, public schools.

So they dont have to pay for that tuition huh

[Hwy17]

AHP's roster was never Miami loaded.  FHSAA does not allow "recruiting" ( transfers galore to a private school I'll give you) and most of their roster are kids within 8 miles of the school.

 

Geez...Really gets under your skin eh?  

 

If it makes you feel betterAHD and AHPs  programs have basically peaked.  Maybe 1 or 2 more strong years.  Things are going to be changing over there......  Not going to get into details but I would say by 2018 '19-ish their rosters and depth won't be as D1 loaded.  I'll just leave it at that.

  

 

Yes it does get under my skin and although I used AHP as an example, I know of public schools that do it too.  Cocoa was the example I used this year.  Back in 2005-2006, Lakeland was winning state titles, and the message boards were full of how many transfers they were getting not only from neighboring Polk county schools but from neighboring counties as well.  Hell, FHSAA had an investigation against Armwood and stripped them of their championship in 2011.  So the answer, lets make school choice the loophole for recruiting.  2011 -  I watched Southeast's program fall while and Palmetto rise as some of their best players transferred to play for the former assistant now HC at Palmetto.  Next year they all went over to Manatee.  So its not totally public vs private. 

[Hwy17]

There is no "competing" with...I don't want to go down this road again but kids (and their parents influience) actually want to go to schools like AHP for more than football.  Some take advantage of the opportunity to be part of a great football program and academic program.....While some want to stay put at their "home" or public school.....You could only relate if you live in Broward or Dade but this concept of a school like AHP is recruiting all of the best players is overblown.  I can name 5-10 public schools last year in Broward and Dade that put out as much or more D1 talent than AHP. If AHP has all of the talent then why does the best WR ( Deerfield Beach)  and DB (Flanagan)  in Broward play for public schools?  How much better are AHP's RBs than Carol City or Miami Centrals  ?  How many QBs are as good as the AHP QB in SFL?  AHP is stacked at secondary , I'll give you that. 

 

If I told you Southridge has 18 Seniors with FBS offers and 11 of them were 3* recruits or higher would you believe me?  Probably not because everyone is too busy counting heads at AHP assuming they are hoarding all of the best players.  Unless you live down here, it is very hard to relate.

 

I'll bet you that the BTW versus Cocoa PUBLIC, Carol City versus Mainland PUBLIC game both have more talent on the field and FBS recruits combined than the AHP versus Bishop Moore PRIVATE game!  Yet the private schools are "recruiting" all of the talent   Heck, probably Delray Atlantic versus Deerfield Beach and Southridge versus Coral Gables do as well 

 

Can anyone explain how all of that talent escaped from the Private schools?

 

 

Isn't Southridge an 8A school?   Letting in transfers while keeping your student body count down so can have an edge on the competition is the way to go.  Its like letting a welterweight gain 20 lbs after weigh in.  

[181pl]

Have to seperate public from private.

 

Private- list the schools from smallest to largest and split the teams into 2 or 3 classes, whichever is more equitable when the #s are processed.

 

Public- Same thing but with 4 classes.

 

No district should have less than 6 teams or more than 8 teams. Champ and runner up make it. Class champ has shot at an open bowl if they chose to play in it. Either against another class winner or an oos team.

[BrowardHandicapper]

It would escape from the Privates due to limitations on how many financial aid packages the Private can afford, and just how deep a roster they really want/need to be super competitive. That, and the fact that not all kids may be interested in what the Privates have to offer.

 

Dade/Broward is kind of unique in that the size of this urban area leads to a unique concentration of talent within a relatively small geographic boundary. Only the Tampa, Orlando and Jax metro areas could hope to compete for that kind of talent. Jax has Bolles and Trinity Christian, but Tampa has several Privates competing for the talent there and none have monopolized the landscape the way a Aquinas or recently a AHP has. And, until recently with Bishop Moore, the Orlando area Privates have not seriously made having a top flight program a priority. 

 

I'm going to respectfully disagree on this one DarterBlue2.....You actually believe that STA and AHP in Broward are more of a monopoly with talent then say Bolles and TCA in Jacksonville????  I don't think it's even close.  Relative to the area TCA and Bolles combined probably scoop up 50-60% of the FBS talent.  STA and AHP combined were probably less than 20% of Broward.    I don't know the Tampa area well enough to make an opinion but I am pretty confident that TCA and Bolles SIGNIFICANTLY and proportionately have their hand on more talent in Jacksonville than AHP and STA in Broward.  

I also am not talking about low tier D1 talent, Coconut Creek, Flanagan, Deerfield Beach, Hallandale (and others) all had players on their rosters at certain positions that STA and AHP could not match.  Can you say the same about the best of the best in Jacksonville?

 

The illusion that AHP and STA are more of a monopoly than TCA/Bolles is simply because it is more concentrated and more talent rich.    If you dissect and truly look at D1 talent and relate to monopoly and what they have their hand on - Jacksonville privates take the cake.  

[BrowardHandicapper]

So they dont have to pay for that tuition huh

That is correct.  Things are changing. Parents who are paying full tuition at these schools and their kids have nothing to do with sports are beginning to pull their kids out.  They are sick and tired of their tuition going up.  When that happens, schools take tiny financial hits.  Non-sports related parents start meeting with one another and they will meet with the school and tell them "enough is enough" sometimes...... When the school doesn't listen and they continue to raise the tuition sometimes those parents pull their kids.   The bottom line is schools have to make money and some are beginning to scrape the bottom of the bucket with financial/tuition aid.  Eventually even the financial/tuition aid relative to the athletic department can run out of other departments money....

[Cat_Scratch]

Wrong!

 

When a 4a school like Cocoa comes on here and brags about getting as many transfers as they do, IMO, they aren't really a 4a school any more.  - Not picking on or disrespecting Cocoa, just using them as an example, its the system that allows it.  I can throw some others in.  Why was there such outrage towards Armwood in 2011 or Lakeland in 2006 because of the transfers they got?  Now its legal to "recruit", we just call it school choice.

 

 

Can only have so many on the field?  -  Again, and I will use 2013 as an example as I posted a long piece on this that year.  American Heritage Plantation breezed through the 5a playoffs that year.  Mr. Highschool, Steve Berry, wrote an article on the other site about AHP that they had more than 25 division 1 recruits on their team.  The top 6 public schools in 5a that year all had a roster between 45-55 players with 3-6 division 1 recruits.  So how does a school like AHP get a roster the size nearly double any other 5a public school and more than quadruple the number of division 1 prospects?  Please answer me that?  Its a rip-off to the rest of the public schools in that division.  AHP is really an 8a school playing in class 5a.   While only 11 play on the field at one time, show many any team that can last long with all their players going both ways?  Injuries happen!  A school like AHP or Cocoa or others can simply plug another player in.  The rest of us end up putting in a freshman or sophmore that isn't quite ready for varsity.  

Cocoa doesn't get that many transfers. Less than the schools in the Dade area anyway. When I said they had 15 or what ever that number was, I was being sarcastic. We did get several this season and they came to Cocoa for the opportunity to advance to the college level on a scholarship.

 

Cocoa is an example of players putting themselves into position to take another step up the ladder. Same as any of the privates and publics that put athlete's on college teams.

Point is that Cocoa meets the requirements set by the FHSAA to play in class 4a. Heck, Cocoa fields less than 40 players every year. Most seasons it less than 35 where some 4a programs with transfers field 60 or 70 players.

The FHSAA has thought this through. If you want to change it then you need to work for the FHSAA.

[BrowardHandicapper]

Yes it does get under my skin and although I used AHP as an example, I know of public schools that do it too.  Cocoa was the example I used this year.  Back in 2005-2006, Lakeland was winning state titles, and the message boards were full of how many transfers they were getting not only from neighboring Polk county schools but from neighboring counties as well.  Hell, FHSAA had an investigation against Armwood and stripped them of their championship in 2011.  So the answer, lets make school choice the loophole for recruiting.  2011 -  I watched Southeast's program fall while and Palmetto rise as some of their best players transferred to play for the former assistant now HC at Palmetto.  Next year they all went over to Manatee.  So its not totally public vs private. 

 

The believe schools that you listed broke the FHSAA rules. AHP did not.  Perhaps it is the FHSAA rules for privates you should be angry at - not the private schools individually for playing by the rules handed to them.  

 

 Now the FHSAA has changed the rules so everyone is playing by the same rules - public or private.  That was the majority vote and that is the way it will be for now.  Will it still get under your skin since the rules are universal now?

[BrowardHandicapper]

Isn't Southridge an 8A school?   Letting in transfers while keeping your student body count down so can have an edge on the competition is the way to go.  Its like letting a welterweight gain 20 lbs after weigh in.  

 

Yeah, it is an 8A school. How many transfers do you really think Southridge had this year?  If South Florida is "stacking" so many "all-star" teams than how the hell can their be so many "stacked all-star" teams???? 

 

A stacked all star team is the best of the best for that area. Period.  Define otherwise.

 

Explain to me how Miami Central, Carol City, and Northwestern all in the same general area are all "stacking" teams when they are very equal on talent.  If you made a "stacked all-star team " from that District you have no idea what you would be dealing with.

 

In Broward last year, How the hell can you have 4 "stacked all-star " teams in a 15 mile radius.  Go ahead and explain that one please?

 

 

You lost me on the "letting in transfers in while keeping your student body count down"  Are you saying that generally or are you applying that statement with Southridge?

 

Southridge is an 8A school but technically is very low end 7A school.  Southridge has 1992 students and 7A enrollment is classified as 1,939 - 2,331.  That said , I don't think Southridge is trying to keep enrollment numbers down.  They are actually playing UP.

[gwdrum75]

So I guess FAMU high will be very popular next year

 

So will Ely and Ft. Lauderdale.

[Hwy17]

Cocoa doesn't get that many transfers. Less than the schools in the Dade area anyway. When I said they had 15 or what ever that number was, I was being sarcastic. We did get several this season and they came to Cocoa for the opportunity to advance to the college level on a scholarship.

 

Cocoa is an example of players putting themselves into position to take another step up the ladder. Same as any of the privates and publics that put athlete's on college teams.

Point is that Cocoa meets the requirements set by the FHSAA to play in class 4a. Heck, Cocoa fields less than 40 players every year. Most seasons it less than 35 where some 4a programs with transfers field 60 or 70 players.

The FHSAA has thought this through. If you want to change it then you need to work for the FHSAA.

 

So they come there for athletic reasons?  I have and never have had issues with parents wanting to send they kids elsewhere for academic reasons or because the school their kids are zoned for are not a good fit.  Lakewood Ranch is an example,  my friends in Bradenton tell me right now, no parent wants their kid to go to that school.  

 

When your able to get able to get starting players who otherwise you would not have had, but remain a 4a school, then your not a true 4a school.   The concept of classification was created years ago on the idea that the larger the student body population, the likelihood of having more athletes from the general population is increased.  Letting them cross lines compromises this concept.  

[Hwy17]

BrowardHandicapper:  Don't like it, still don't like it and probably never will.  Read my response to cat-scratch, what I'm referring to as keeping student body count down but letting transfers in.  Matters not to me whether public or private do it.  

My point about Southridge is that they aren't trying to play down a class.  Now if you want to talk about being forced to play up a class, my school fought FHSAA for years over that.   

[badbird]

I love how people justify their recruits err transfers by saying others do it more.  Cocoa got tired of getting their ass beat by BTW and went out and tried to stack the deck in their favor.  We will see if it pays off on Friday.  

[DisabledAccount]

I'm going to respectfully disagree on this one DarterBlue2.....You actually believe that STA and AHP in Broward are more of a monopoly with talent then say Bolles and TCA in Jacksonville???? I don't think it's even close. Relative to the area TCA and Bolles combined probably scoop up 50-60% of the FBS talent. STA and AHP combined were probably less than 20% of Broward. I don't know the Tampa area well enough to make an opinion but I am pretty confident that TCA and Bolles SIGNIFICANTLY and proportionately have their hand on more talent in Jacksonville than AHP and STA in Broward.

I also am not talking about low tier D1 talent, Coconut Creek, Flanagan, Deerfield Beach, Hallandale (and others) all had players on their rosters at certain positions that STA and AHP could not match. Can you say the same about the best of the best in Jacksonville?

 

The illusion that AHP and STA are more of a monopoly than TCA/Bolles is simply because it is more concentrated and more talent rich. If you dissect and truly look at D1 talent and relate to monopoly and what they have their hand on - Jacksonville privates take the cake.

The thing is though the talent in broward county vs duval county not even close

 

Broward all star team would wreck duval all star team so even though jax can get all the top players at one school they don't really come close to being able to beat a team like STA

[DisabledAccount]

Yeah, it is an 8A school. How many transfers do you really think Southridge had this year? If South Florida is "stacking" so many "all-star" teams than how the hell can their be so many "stacked all-star" teams????

 

A stacked all star team is the best of the best for that area. Period. Define otherwise.

 

Explain to me how Miami Central, Carol City, and Northwestern all in the same general area are all "stacking" teams when they are very equal on talent. If you made a "stacked all-star team " from that District you have no idea what you would be dealing with.

 

In Broward last year, How the hell can you have 4 "stacked all-star " teams in a 15 mile radius. Go ahead and explain that one please?

 

 

You lost me on the "letting in transfers in while keeping your student body count down" Are you saying that generally or are you applying that statement with Southridge?

 

Southridge is an 8A school but technically is very low end 7A school. Southridge has 1992 students and 7A enrollment is classified as 1,939 - 2,331. That said , I don't think Southridge is trying to keep enrollment numbers down. They are actually playing UP.

So why they in 8A?

[BrowardHandicapper]

The thing is though the talent in broward county vs duval county not even close

 

Broward all star team would wreck duval all star team so even though jax can get all the top players at one school they don't really come close to being able to beat a team like STA

That is my point.  TCA and Bolles have MORE OF THE LOCAL TALENT PROPORTIONALlTY than STA and AHP. Thus - the more of a "monopoly" to their area.

[DisabledAccount]

That is my point. TCA and Bolles have MORE OF THE LOCAL TALENT PROPORTIONALlTY than STA and AHP. Thus - the more of a "monopoly" to their area.

Ik that but even with those stacked rosters STA would blow them out of the building

 

That shows just how much stronger talent is in south Florida and why they keep getting state titles in the south

[BrowardHandicapper]

So why they in 8A?

Southridge is located way down south in Dade County.  It is very close to Homestead.  I think the lack of 7A schools in that area perhaps is the reason that they play 8A?