Week 1 Top Dozen games

[Ray Icaza]

41 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Responding to Nolebull's comment with an SAT-like question for everyone on this board:

Here's the scenario (and I'm making it as blatantly obvious as I can):  Assistant coach for Local High School ("LHS") identifies a rising junior skill position player from another high school that the LHS coach believes could be a real difference-maker for his team.  The LHS coach pulls the kid aside after a 7-on-7 tournament and starts extolling the virtues of LHS and telling the kid what a great fit the kid would be.  He then meets up with the kid's parents and offers them housing right down the street from LHS.  He then tells them he can make arrangements for the kid's mom to get a new "job" at the car dealership owned by former LHS quarterback and long-time LHS booster, Rooster Calhoun, who took LHS to the state championship game back in 1974.   In short, the coach commits what everyone and their brother could only describe as 'recruiting,' and extends an offer of what everyone and their sister could only conclude would be 'impermissible benefits.'  And the kid and his family members willingly participate in the recruitment process and, ultimately, gladly accept the benefits. 

Who should be punished:

A.  The assistant coach.

B.  The head coach (and, yes, I was intentionally vague on whether the head coach participated in or had knowledge of the actions).

C.  The school.

D.  The kid.

E.  All of the above. 

Unlike the SAT, you are not limited to one answer.   Put down the letter for each one (unless you think all should be punished, in which event you can just put down "E"). 

 

Is this a common sense question or should we be getting an "EXPERT" in here to tell us the answer?

[nolebull813]

So crazy to me. Some kid can live in extreme poverty, and is offered a way to completely change the dynamic of his family’s living situation for the better while at the same time enhancing his education, and increasing his access to a free college education. 
 

And the response from people almost exclusively more well off than him and his family is, is NO!!!! You must stay in a failing school, in extreme poverty, and decrease the chances of college with the hopes of creating generational wealth!!!!

”But why sir?? Why can’t I help me and my family for decades to come?” 
 

“Because peasant, the high school you are leaving might not win as many football games without you stuck in your vicious cycle!!!!!”

[nolebull813]

It is in cruel jest that some FHSAA investigator making six figures, driving a luxury company vehicle up to a trailer or public housing knocking on the door to tell some high school student that the punishment for trying to pull his family out of poverty is athletic ineligibility, essentially crushing his primary chance to escape poverty and change the trajectory of his family’s life for years to come. 
 

you can disagree with what I’m saying, but please spare me any moral lecture about wanting to do right and what’s best for student athletes, especially ones in extreme need. 

[h8r]

19 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

It is in cruel jest that some FHSAA investigator making six figures, driving a luxury company vehicle up to a trailer or public housing knocking on the door to tell some high school student that the punishment for trying to pull his family out of poverty is athletic ineligibility, essentially crushing his primary chance to escape poverty and change the trajectory of his family’s life for years to come. 
 

you can disagree with what I’m saying, but please spare me any moral lecture about wanting to do right and what’s best for student athletes, especially ones in extreme need. 

do some orlando sentinel research.  the moffett guy brought 10-15 kids, tfa had over 30 transfers.  the kids started particpating in spring ball, but were not enrolled in tfa.  then they attended summer workouts and were not enrolled in tfa,  he was also the main catalyst at winter park, as ray said above.  he got them in trouble a couple times.  took 7 starters from timber creek 1 year, day before fall season started.  illegal addresses, no home at the address, just a mailbox, all from a 2nd coach on the winter park team who ownd a real estate business.....

when questioned(fhsaa has relased this, its a simple search) the kids all said coach moffett told me to come here.....

those 30 transfers dont even really go to tfa, they are enrolled in the school, but are housed in a portable and doing florida virtual school 2 days a week to keep up with being able to graduate(hearsay, i dont know it to be 100% true, know someone who was around the program last fall).

[nolebull813]

Leesbrug is an F rated school and one of the worst in all of Florida and the country. 
 

These kids getting an opportunity at TFA can and will change their life for the better. Kudos to this guy for helping kids out of unfortunate circumstances no fault of their own. TFA is one of the top private schools in CFLA. 
 

If every kid could leave Leesburg for a top rated private school I would applaud it 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

Good thing he rescued those 7 kids from Timber Creek. The Avalon community is a scary place. So poverty stricken over there. 

[Longtime Observer]

9 hours ago, Perspective said:

Responding to Nolebull's comment with an SAT-like question for everyone on this board:

Here's the scenario (and I'm making it as blatantly obvious as I can):  Assistant coach for Local High School ("LHS") identifies a rising junior skill position player from another high school that the LHS coach believes could be a real difference-maker for his team.  The LHS coach pulls the kid aside after a 7-on-7 tournament and starts extolling the virtues of LHS and telling the kid what a great fit the kid would be.  He then meets up with the kid's parents and offers them housing right down the street from LHS.  He then tells them he can make arrangements for the kid's mom to get a new "job" at the car dealership owned by former LHS quarterback and long-time LHS booster, Rooster Calhoun, who took LHS to the state championship game back in 1974.   In short, the coach commits what everyone and their brother could only describe as 'recruiting,' and extends an offer of what everyone and their sister could only conclude would be 'impermissible benefits.'  And the kid and his family members willingly participate in the recruitment process and, ultimately, gladly accept the benefits. 

Who should be punished:

A.  The assistant coach.

B.  The head coach (and, yes, I was intentionally vague on whether the head coach participated in or had knowledge of the actions).

C.  The school.

D.  The kid.

E.  All of the above. 

Unlike the SAT, you are not limited to one answer.   Put down the letter for each one (unless you think all should be punished, in which event you can just put down "E"). 

 

Imagine if all of the above were true...but the practice was within thre rules and available to all other schools. What's the problem then? This assumes the communist revolution has not yet fully taken hold, and the deliberate equal dustribution of resources is not a thing.

[Longtime Observer]

4 hours ago, h8r said:

do some orlando sentinel research.  the moffett guy brought 10-15 kids, tfa had over 30 transfers.  the kids started particpating in spring ball, but were not enrolled in tfa.  then they attended summer workouts and were not enrolled in tfa,  he was also the main catalyst at winter park, as ray said above.  he got them in trouble a couple times.  took 7 starters from timber creek 1 year, day before fall season started.  illegal addresses, no home at the address, just a mailbox, all from a 2nd coach on the winter park team who ownd a real estate business.....

when questioned(fhsaa has relased this, its a simple search) the kids all said coach moffett told me to come here.....

those 30 transfers dont even really go to tfa, they are enrolled in the school, but are housed in a portable and doing florida virtual school 2 days a week to keep up with being able to graduate(hearsay, i dont know it to be 100% true, know someone who was around the program last fall).

It's baloney for sure. It also describes the current reality in many places, most notably Dade and Broward counties. There are kids- many prominent players- who don't attend the school they play for. They play for some fly-by-night private or online school that doesn't have football. Ridiculous, but true.

[nolebull813]

2 hours ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

Good thing he rescued those 7 kids from Timber Creek. The Avalon community is a scary place. So poverty stricken over there. 

My son goes to a school that has million dollar homes and crack houses and trailers all in the zone. And everything in between. 
 

Avila is one of the richest neighborhoods in Tampa. It’s in the Gaither district which has some slummy areas and a lot of bad kids who don’t want to be educated. Just cause crime and problems for the kids that do 

[Ray Icaza]

6 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

So crazy to me. Some kid can live in extreme poverty, and is offered a way to completely change the dynamic of his family’s living situation for the better while at the same time enhancing his education, and increasing his access to a free college education. 
 

And the response from people almost exclusively more well off than him and his family is, is NO!!!! You must stay in a failing school, in extreme poverty, and decrease the chances of college with the hopes of creating generational wealth!!!!

”But why sir?? Why can’t I help me and my family for decades to come?” 
 

“Because peasant, the high school you are leaving might not win as many football games without you stuck in your vicious cycle!!!!!”

Sounds like your intentions are genuine, but your argument is weak.  NO ONE is telling any student he or she can't transfer to a better school be it for academics or athletics and here is where your argument falls apart.  We have "SCHOOL CHOICE" for that very reason, but that doesn't include coaches, their agents, parents or others actively trying to recruit an athlete simply because he can help their program win offering them any number of perks.   Osceola is a relatively low income county compared to the surrounding Orange, Seminole, Brevard and Volusia thus a Title 1 school.  However, the administration, faculty, coaches and support staff do a very good job with the kids they are handed be it on the education front or athletics.  We just had a DB transfer to Lakeland HS and my guess is he and his parents have their reasons for doing so that they deem beneficial for his senior year.  We had a RB transfer in from Toho probably with a similar scenario.  That I have no problem with and the way the program is supposed to work.  TFA and the kids (30 as others have pointed out) that went there is an abomination that can only be chalked up to recruiting which is illegal and thankfully has consequences for ALL!!

[Longtime Observer]

10 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Is this a common sense question or should we be getting an "EXPERT" in here to tell us the answer?

Perhaps we should spend $20 million for an expert to tell us 

[Longtime Observer]

10 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Sounds like your intentions are genuine, but your argument is weak.  NO ONE is telling any student he or she can't transfer to a better school be it for academics or athletics and here is where your argument falls apart.  We have "SCHOOL CHOICE" for that very reason, but that doesn't include coaches, their agents, parents or others actively trying to recruit an athlete simply because he can help their program win offering them any number of perks.   Osceola is a relatively low income county compared to the surrounding Orange, Seminole, Brevard and Volusia thus a Title 1 school.  However, the administration, faculty, coaches and support staff do a very good job with the kids they are handed be it on the education front or athletics.  We just had a DB transfer to Lakeland HS and my guess is he and his parents have their reasons for doing so that they deem beneficial for his senior year.  We had a RB transfer in from Toho probably with a similar scenario.  That I have no problem with and the way the program is supposed to work.  TFA and the kids (30 as others have pointed out) that went there is an abomination that can only be chalked up to recruiting which is illegal and thankfully has consequences for ALL!!

Was the DB who transferred to Lakeland at all involved with, or related to, the awful tragedy that occured with the head coach's family? Obviosuly not to a significant degree as he played there last year. I just recall seeing some names involved last I checked and I wonder. Perhaps not something to discuss publicly. Anyway, I see on the depth chart the Kowboys submitted to the FHSAA for the state title game he was a backup, and three of the starters were underclassmen. So, he's likely in a similar situation at Lakeland where he'll compete for, but not be promised, a starting spot.  

[Ray Icaza]

2 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

Was the DB who transferred to Lakeland at all involved with, or related to, the awful tragedy that occured with the head coach's family? Obviosuly not to a significant degree as he played there last year. I just recall seeing some names involved last I checked and I wonder. Perhaps not something to discuss publicly. Anyway, I see on the depth chart the Kowboys submitted to the FHSAA for the state title game he was a backup, and three of the starters were underclassmen. So, he's likely in a similar situation at Lakeland where he'll compete for, but not be promised, a starting spot.  

No, this kid has good parents with good jobs and his older brother started for us several seasons and attended LIU on scholarship this past year.  His Dad is a very savvy football guy and he must have been onboard with the decision.  The WHY is always a guessing game, thus speculation so I hope you appreciate me not opining on reasons.  We hope it works in his favor, but you never know as I think he will have to compete for playing time in the secondary there just as he was doing here.  Thankfully our coaching staff believe in merit and all starting positions have to be earned, which I fully support.   Reason given why players transferred to TFA have little merit as they certainly don't apply to the 2 we lost to them last year.  The OL we lost is from a very well to do family whose Dad is a prominent OB/ GYN doctor in the central FL area and after last season and looking ahead to this season, it remains a real head scratcher as to WHY??  Over the summer I am sure we will gain a few and lose a few with the hope in each of those moves it truly benefits the student/player, not the coach that is only trying to make a name for himself by taking shortcuts.

[PinellasFB]

I frequently have to go to wresting tournaments at Osceola HS.  In fact, I was just there the past four days for Summer Slam.  That neighborhood looks pretty low income.  I can imagine it wouldn't take much $$$ to get some of those kids to transfer out.  That area is also a talent hotbed so I bet the struggle is real to hang on to those kids?

[Ray Icaza]

15 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

I frequently have to go to wresting tournaments at Osceola HS.  In fact, I was just there the past four days for Summer Slam.  That neighborhood looks pretty low income.  I can imagine it wouldn't take much $$$ to get some of those kids to transfer out.  That area is also a talent hotbed so I bet the struggle is real to hang on to those kids?

Well we certainly don't have perks to offer top area players to transfer into our program, but we do have lots of Tradition, competition and solid coaching that prepares players for the next level.   That consistency, continuity, discipline, hard work, etc.. also isn't for everyone as we see some come and not last in our program.  At the present time, we don't seem to be as well positioned as we were last year at this time for success into the playoff rounds but time will tell.  As I have clearly pointed out in previous years we do lose as many or more than what we gain on average and outsiders claiming we steal all the surrounding talent are clueless.   Our wrestling program has been extremely successful over the years but currently going thru a coaching change so will see how that affects that program.   I think to be considered a Title 1 school 40%+ of the student body must qualify for the lunch program;  I would guess we are probably closer to 60% but don't quote me on that. 

[MarkECannon]

Go to an Osceola home game, especially a big game, and you will see why kids want to play there.  It’s one of those places you wish your program was if it isn’t already.  Great atmosphere, pageantry, sense of community.  You will be impressed.  

[PinellasFB]

28 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:

Go to an Osceola home game, especially a big game, and you will see why kids want to play there.  It’s one of those places you wish your program was if it isn’t already.  Great atmosphere, pageantry, sense of community.  You will be impressed.  

Man I'm jealous.  Very few of the Pinellas and Tampa teams have any sense of community and home games are pretty much dead except for the wealthier areas or rare areas with a true sense of community like Tarpon Springs.  Palm Harbor is a wealthier area in the county and we always bring way more to away games than the home team, even for the traditionally decent teams around here.  East Lake and Steinbrenner, both in our district, have great home atmospheres but both schools are also wealthy.  

[Ray Icaza]

57 minutes ago, MarkECannon said:

Go to an Osceola home game, especially a big game, and you will see why kids want to play there.  It’s one of those places you wish your program was if it isn’t already.  Great atmosphere, pageantry, sense of community.  You will be impressed.  

Everything is relative for me growing up here.  In the mid to late 70's early 80's when we played out at the Silver Spurs arena and our population was a fraction what it is today, we attracted fans in the thousands to big home games.  Today, despite consistently fielding excellent teams year after year the attendance is typically in the hundreds which I consider a paltry number.  I see the work the coaches and players put in so feel they should get alot more support than they do.  The least that can happen in the upcoming year is for all our coaches to be paid better than they have for the value they provide the school system and the kids they impact. 

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, MarkECannon said:

Go to an Osceola home game, especially a big game, and you will see why kids want to play there.  It’s one of those places you wish your program was if it isn’t already.  Great atmosphere, pageantry, sense of community.  You will be impressed.  

I went one time. It was when Tampa Bay Tech played Osceola in the playoffs. TBT had Deon Cain as their quarterback. He went on to be a receiver for Clemson and in the NFL. 
 

Osceola bullied them all night. The game wasn’t close. I went on the field after the game and saw someone in media interviewing Cain, and it was an emotional moment for him. His voice was breaking when he was talking. That was his last high school football game. It was all over at that moment.He just looked like he was overcome with emotion realizing he just finished his high school career. 
 

It was a pretty surreal moment to see someone in real time going through that trying to keep it all together. 
 

Even though he knew he was playing college football it was still hard on him. I know it’s hard on all football players who play their last game. especially the 99% who will never play football again in their life. That’s why I don’t understand why coaches don’t play bowl games. Give the seniors who missed the playoffs won last game. 

[Ray Icaza]

I was also there that night for the TBT game as I was the previous week when we beat Lakeland in those same playoffs as well as the following week when we beat Niceville.  That 2014 team was pretty good, but as a heavy run team we ran into the best defensive front I had seen at the HS level in the state championship when we got bullied by STA with Nick Bosa and Co. who were unblockable. 

[FBGUY1989]

5 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

Man I'm jealous.  Very few of the Pinellas and Tampa teams have any sense of community and home games are pretty much dead except for the wealthier areas or rare areas with a true sense of community like Tarpon Springs.  Palm Harbor is a wealthier area in the county and we always bring way more to away games than the home team, even for the traditionally decent teams around here.  East Lake and Steinbrenner, both in our district, have great home atmospheres but both schools are also wealthy.  

What about Armwood and Plant. They're pretty good every year and I'm sure people want to see them play.

[Perspective]

18 hours ago, FBGUY1989 said:

What about Armwood and Plant. They're pretty good every year and I'm sure people want to see them play.

Armwood and Plant still draw good crowds, especially when they play each other.   Plant's crowds dwindled a little after Coach Weiner left and the team struggled for a year or two, but they seem to be back on track again under Coach Brown and the good crowds have returned.  Apparently, there's a correlation between winning and crowd size. 

[MarkECannon]

Plant has a pretty good atmosphere.  The home side has the stands with the roof.  The water tower hovers over the stadium with PLANT on it.  I don’t know if they have replaced the old field turf recently but it needed to be.  The concessions are in the end zone and are good.  The visitors stands are adequate but could be improved compared with the rest of the stadium.  The Plant band is one of the best while they are in the stands.  The roof over the home side captures their sound.  It looks and sounds, dare I say the word . . . Amazing.  If you hang out on the end zone side near the concessions you can pick up interesting conversations.  It’s usually Plant parents that are loosely paying attention to the game.  A subject that may be discussed is which vacation home their family is going to spend Thanksgiving.  It’s a tough decision whether to stay at their place in the mountains of North Carolina or their place in the Keys.  (Full disclosure, my mother graduated from Plant in 1954 so I have a warm appreciation for the school).

Armwood on the other hand is one of my least favorite stadiums in the state.  It’s the common sterile steel stadium that is common for unfortunately a lot of schools in Florida.  Not much that makes you think you are at Armwood except for the usual senior banners inside the entrance.  The crowd really isn’t very engaged with the game even when it is a big game.  A lot of ignorance in the crowd if you know what I am saying.  It is kind of cool that you can see the I-4 traffic from one side of the end zone.  Here’s a tip.  Go to the visitors concession side which is the one closer to I-4.  The home side concessions are too close to the stands causing an almost crush of humanity just to buy a hot dog.  Their band has improved in recent years.  It used to be one of the smallest I had ever seen for a big football school.

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

Plant was rolling in the mid to late 2000's. The turnaround that Coach Weiner was able to operate was pretty great. 

[PinellasFB]

On 6/8/2025 at 7:35 PM, FBGUY1989 said:

What about Armwood and Plant. They're pretty good every year and I'm sure people want to see them play.

I'm mostly talking about Pinellas County.  Armwood is a much more rural area with a strong tradition so I assumed they have a great atmosphere.  I don't know much about Plant other than they are south Tampa, which has $$$. They probably have decent support but city teams, like Pinellas, typically struggle in atmosphere.