KICKOFF Classics must see games

[PinellasFB]

20 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

Rise Prep from Miami 66 miles away?

Yes.  They have a strong presence in Broward too.

[PinellasFB]

3 hours ago, MarkECannon said:

IMG’s tuition is between $75,000- $95,000.  I’ve spoken to some parents of IMG football players.  They told me it was all on scholarship.

Yeah the national team is 100% scholarship.  I know a kid who transferred there as a non-scholarship varsity player (not the national team).  Needless to say, his parents are loaded.

[Longtime Observer]

On 6/10/2025 at 7:27 PM, DILLARDBOYZ954 said:

Gonna be a nice indicator to start the season which it counted 

I think we can count on the game "counting" as far as both trying their best to win. If MNW blows Lakeland out, I promise I won't switch up and pretend they didn't try! It's also going to be a really good "gate" for an 11th non-playoff game. Hope the crowd is big!

[nolebull813]

1 hour ago, PinellasFB said:

Yes.  They have a strong presence in Broward too.

So how does that work? They go to Rise and then travel 60 miles to West Boca for football activities? 

[FBGUY1989]

6 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

What about the public schools? They get double digit transfers every year. No one ever says a peep about them. Public schools actually have it easier because they don’t have to jump through financial aid and tuition barriers. The only difference is it appears that when giving the opportunity kids want to get the better education along with the top-notch football experience.
 

Miami Northwestern is not in a desirable location for families to move to, but they can get 20 transfers in one off-season. Does that mean they are IMG?

Yes the location where Northwestern is located is not a desirable neighborhood to live in but a kid might live in Brickell, Miami Shores or on the Beach somewhere.

[PinellasFB]

1 hour ago, nolebull813 said:

So how does that work? They go to Rise and then travel 60 miles to West Boca for football activities? 

No, Rise Prep is a remote school where you typically dual enroll between online HS classes and Dade county community college classes, of which I'm sure most will choose the online DCCC class offerings.  Student athletes at RPA can then choose any school to play for.  This is how Broward athletes can attend.  While RPA seems legit academically, the sketchy part is their role in sports where they are nothing short of true hired guns sent to various teams in the area.  It just never "feels right" that a big portion of West Boca's team doesn't even attend West Boca.  

[Perspective]

11 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

No, Rise Prep is a remote school where you typically dual enroll between online HS classes and Dade county community college classes, of which I'm sure most will choose the online DCCC class offerings.  Student athletes at RPA can then choose any school to play for.  This is how Broward athletes can attend.  While RPA seems legit academically, the sketchy part is their role in sports where they are nothing short of true hired guns sent to various teams in the area.  It just never "feels right" that a big portion of West Boca's team doesn't even attend West Boca.  

Respectfully, this just isn't the way that high school sports are supposed to work. 

[Ray Icaza]

13 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

No, Rise Prep is a remote school where you typically dual enroll between online HS classes and Dade county community college classes, of which I'm sure most will choose the online DCCC class offerings.  Student athletes at RPA can then choose any school to play for.  This is how Broward athletes can attend.  While RPA seems legit academically, the sketchy part is their role in sports where they are nothing short of true hired guns sent to various teams in the area.  It just never "feels right" that a big portion of West Boca's team doesn't even attend West Boca.  

Thanks for that insight, as I never knew programs like this existed who appears to have the sole purpose of acquiring talent in the surrounding area.  Never sits well with our program in retrospect losing to teams in a championship game that did it that way.  Reminds me of our losing to Flanagan HS in a similar fashion as well. 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

This system is bad in Florida HS wrestling as well. kids will take home school classes on the computer and wrestle for a school 3 hours away. They find places close to home to train at and then on the weekends they drive to whatever tournament that school is participating at that weekend and wear their singlet. 

[nolebull813]

15 hours ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

This system is bad in Florida HS wrestling as well. kids will take home school classes on the computer and wrestle for a school 3 hours away. They find places close to home to train at and then on the weekends they drive to whatever tournament that school is participating at that weekend and wear their singlet. 

If you go through ALLLLLLL that craziness travel and lose the typical high school experience with prom, homecoming, friends, girlfriends etc. Just to play a sport then doesn’t that kind of tell you how important that decision is to that kid and his parents? You are not going to do all of that for a hobby. This is something that they most likely are investing time, money and effort into hoping that it takes them to the next level and doing it locally minimizes that chance in their opinion 

[Longtime Observer]

18 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

If you go through ALLLLLLL that craziness travel and lose the typical high school experience with prom, homecoming, friends, girlfriends etc. Just to play a sport then doesn’t that kind of tell you how important that decision is to that kid and his parents? You are not going to do all of that for a hobby. This is something that they most likely are investing time, money and effort into hoping that it takes them to the next level and doing it locally minimizes that chance in their opinion 

And this helps to underscore the reality that K-12 SCHOOLS should be completely separate from big-time, for-profit sports. In truth, they already are in every way but the official way. Make big-time, for-profit sports REGIONAL rather than attached to K-12 schools.

[nolebull813]

16 minutes ago, Longtime Observer said:

And this helps to underscore the reality that K-12 SCHOOLS should be completely separate from big-time, for-profit sports. In truth, they already are in every way but the official way. Make big-time, for-profit sports REGIONAL rather than attached to K-12 schools.

But that would be punishing programs who are successful. For example. Brandon High is/was a national powerhouse for wrestling for decades. So if you have a kid in the Tampa area who is coming up in elementary and middle school and is a stud wrestler, it would a huge disservice of the parents to not at least try everything they can to get their kid to Brandon. That is the pathway to success. 
 

So why should Brandon be punished by having state championship aspirations stripped away because they laid a foundation of excellence in their craft? 
 

Brandon doesn’t need to recruit. Anyone who wrestles knows Brandon wrestling. So if studs are showing up at their door in droves, why should they have to turn them away and crush their dream? Or have to be punished, sentenced to expensive regional AAU-type competition? 

[THAT S--T WAS FUNNY]

This aint your daddy's Brandon wrestling team anymore. Brandon has fallen off the globe from what they were when we were in HS. But now you have top teams like South Dade, Lake Gibson, Somerset Academy, and Tampa Jesuit that pretty much dominate the sport in the state of florida. Somerset is a school that takes full advantage of the situation that I explained earlier. They also have a lot of kids that go there and wrestle in grades 6 through 8th and then transfer to South Dade for freshman year or stay at Somerset. They even had a kid the past few years that would play football for Western HS and wrestle for Somerset. It is what it is....The system is F'ed and there aint no going back. 

[nolebull813]

33 minutes ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

This aint your daddy's Brandon wrestling team anymore. Brandon has fallen off the globe from what they were when we were in HS. But now you have top teams like South Dade, Lake Gibson, Somerset Academy, and Tampa Jesuit that pretty much dominate the sport in the state of florida. Somerset is a school that takes full advantage of the situation that I explained earlier. They also have a lot of kids that go there and wrestle in grades 6 through 8th and then transfer to South Dade for freshman year or stay at Somerset. They even had a kid the past few years that would play football for Western HS and wrestle for Somerset. It is what it is....The system is F'ed and there aint no going back. 

Coach Cozart must have retired. Thats why I said “was/is” because I wasn’t sure if they were still a power. 

[Longtime Observer]

5 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

But that would be punishing programs who are successful. For example. Brandon High is/was a national powerhouse for wrestling for decades. So if you have a kid in the Tampa area who is coming up in elementary and middle school and is a stud wrestler, it would a huge disservice of the parents to not at least try everything they can to get their kid to Brandon. That is the pathway to success. 
 

So why should Brandon be punished by having state championship aspirations stripped away because they laid a foundation of excellence in their craft? 
 

Brandon doesn’t need to recruit. Anyone who wrestles knows Brandon wrestling. So if studs are showing up at their door in droves, why should they have to turn them away and crush their dream? Or have to be punished, sentenced to expensive regional AAU-type competition? 

First, high school wrestling, to my limited knowledge, is not at a big-time, big $ level like football and basketball. So, I don't think that comparison works for what I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to schools offering sports as extracurriculars per se.

If we return to football, perhaps we could use my alma mater as an example. What you've said about Brandon wrestling can mostly be said for Lakeland football. So, under my plan, Lakeland High school no longer offers a football program operating at anywhere near the financial level it is now. It would be a club sport, if they fielded a team of any kind at all. What effect would that have on the football players in Polk county? It would almost certainly be a benefit. As is mostly already the case, kids zoned for all sorts of different schools play football for Lakeland. It's an attempt at a...regional all-star team. There would absolutely be one or two Polk/regional all-star programs existing. What would be gone are the dysfunctional programs already lacking support. This would lead to a consolidation of resources such that the exisiting major programs have more $ invested, better coaches and fan support. The kids see themselves as representing Polk county, and not a particular school, anyway. 

[h8r]

15 hours ago, THAT S--T WAS FUNNY said:

This aint your daddy's Brandon wrestling team anymore. Brandon has fallen off the globe from what they were when we were in HS. But now you have top teams like South Dade, Lake Gibson, Somerset Academy, and Tampa Jesuit that pretty much dominate the sport in the state of florida. Somerset is a school that takes full advantage of the situation that I explained earlier. They also have a lot of kids that go there and wrestle in grades 6 through 8th and then transfer to South Dade for freshman year or stay at Somerset. They even had a kid the past few years that would play football for Western HS and wrestle for Somerset. It is what it is....The system is F'ed and there aint no going back. 

south dade has been a top team for well over 20 years!  lake gibson gets all the transfers in central florida it wants, read a wrestling message board and see the truth behind that.  there are kids that transfer from brandon and go to lake gibson and win big, has happened 2 or 3 times in the last few seasons.  south dade long time hc just retired and his long time assistant, who wrestled for him, is taking over.  could be a new power house in the state.  jesuit is alwasy good and has been for a long time, dating back 15 plus years.  brandon is not near what they were when cozart was in charge(even though his son is hc and he is still coming in working with kids, sitting in the corner, coaching offseason kids).  

[Ray Icaza]

13 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

First, high school wrestling, to my limited knowledge, is not at a big-time, big $ level like football and basketball. So, I don't think that comparison works for what I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to schools offering sports as extracurriculars per se.

If we return to football, perhaps we could use my alma mater as an example. What you've said about Brandon wrestling can mostly be said for Lakeland football. So, under my plan, Lakeland High school no longer offers a football program operating at anywhere near the financial level it is now. It would be a club sport, if they fielded a team of any kind at all. What effect would that have on the football players in Polk county? It would almost certainly be a benefit. As is mostly already the case, kids zoned for all sorts of different schools play football for Lakeland. It's an attempt at a...regional all-star team. There would absolutely be one or two Polk/regional all-star programs existing. What would be gone are the dysfunctional programs already lacking support. This would lead to a consolidation of resources such that the exisiting major programs have more $ invested, better coaches and fan support. The kids see themselves as representing Polk county, and not a particular school, anyway. 

Interesting concept and we should be open to consider these kinds of possibilities going forward as the current environment for HS football is not ideal. 

[Dr. D]

On 6/14/2025 at 7:43 PM, Longtime Observer said:

First, high school wrestling, to my limited knowledge, is not at a big-time, big $ level like football and basketball. So, I don't think that comparison works for what I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to schools offering sports as extracurriculars per se.

If we return to football, perhaps we could use my alma mater as an example. What you've said about Brandon wrestling can mostly be said for Lakeland football. So, under my plan, Lakeland High school no longer offers a football program operating at anywhere near the financial level it is now. It would be a club sport, if they fielded a team of any kind at all. What effect would that have on the football players in Polk county? It would almost certainly be a benefit. As is mostly already the case, kids zoned for all sorts of different schools play football for Lakeland. It's an attempt at a...regional all-star team. There would absolutely be one or two Polk/regional all-star programs existing. What would be gone are the dysfunctional programs already lacking support. This would lead to a consolidation of resources such that the existing major programs have more $ invested, better coaches and fan support. The kids see themselves as representing Polk county, and not a particular school, anyway. 

I agree that this is an interesting concept.  But Florida has 67 counties, and what might work well in your county could be a bust in others.  No question that you could potentially get more money invested, better coaching, and better quality of play with regional all-star teams.  But you lost me when you state that you would get better fan support.  While high school football may be transactional to some, it is still an emotional experience for many.  It's not just the play on the field; it's about the sights and sounds in the stadium on Friday night, and if the home team wins, all the better.  Yes, the hardcore fan will always make an effort to see an "all-star" game, but I don't think that holds true for the casual fan who knows the QB who lives down the street or has a son/daughter in the band or some other personal connection to the school.  I'll travel 50 miles to see my local school play on Friday, but I personally would not travel 20 miles to see a game with just a handful of players from my local community, no matter how high the quality of play.  And I think that's true of the majority of fans who typically attend games and support their local high school.  My belief is you would end up with the typical AAU basketball crowd - parents, hardcore fans, scouts, and hangers-on.  Again, probably a better model for the football purist, but I don't see it being more popular in terms of fan support in large parts of the state.

[Longtime Observer]

1 hour ago, Dr. D said:

I agree that this is an interesting concept.  But Florida has 67 counties, and what might work well in your county could be a bust in others.  No question that you could potentially get more money invested, better coaching, and better quality of play with regional all-star teams.  But you lost me when you state that you would get better fan support.  While high school football may be transactional to some, it is still an emotional experience for many.  It's not just the play on the field; it's about the sights and sounds in the stadium on Friday night, and if the home team wins, all the better.  Yes, the hardcore fan will always make an effort to see an "all-star" game, but I don't think that holds true for the casual fan who knows the QB who lives down the street or has a son/daughter in the band or some other personal connection to the school.  I'll travel 50 miles to see my local school play on Friday, but I personally would not travel 20 miles to see a game with just a handful of players from my local community, no matter how high the quality of play.  And I think that's true of the majority of fans who typically attend games and support their local high school.  My belief is you would end up with the typical AAU basketball crowd - parents, hardcore fans, scouts, and hangers-on.  Again, probably a better model for the football purist, but I don't see it being more popular in terms of fan support in large parts of the state.

It woudn't have to be strictly tied to counties. Just general regional areas. The number of programs would depend on the level of interest and number of players in a given area. Dade/broward area might have 5+ programs, while Polk/Heartland might have 1-2, for example.

The key phrase you mention in deciding what game to attend is "my local school". This seems to be more about them being the local program, rather than it being your alma mater. This would still be an option for you, as the idea is to have higher caliber programs that represent a geographic area. You'd root for your local team against a strong team from another area. All of the players on your local team are from your area, though they can attend a variety of schools for academics.

A Manatee county program can appeal to all of the residents of Manatee county, including those who may have attended historically poor programs when they were at each individual school. Now, if Bayshore is your high school, you're basically frozen out of having a team to root for that can win. It's been that way for decades. Manatee (and Southeast back in the day) have been so dominant that it's got to be hard to get excited to even a tiny degree. Because a form of what I propose already exists to a lesser, informal extent, the lower level programs are actually much worse now than the past. Bayshore failed to score a single point in eight (8) games last year. How many fans attended their games? Contrast that with the number of people who'd like to support the program if it was ever a little bit close to mattering. I bet there's plenty of folks who'd be willing to invest time/money, but are abstaining because it is hopeless.

Sharply reducing the number of programs as I propose allows all of the folks in the Bradenton area to unite around 1 strong team. Everyone is included, regardless of where academic classes occur. Each Friday night would see the Manatee county area program face another strong program from another area. For example, the Manatee elite program vs. East Hillsborough elite one week. Another week, Manatee vs. Sarasota elite. Etc. All the best players, coaches and all in the community who want a team to root for are consolidated. Ticket sales, booster contributions and other investments are consolidated into a much smaller number of elite programs. 

You see this to a small degree in a place like Texas, where there are fewer but larger high schools with mega support. Allen High, for example, is known for having massive, super impressive facilities. But, Allen High has over 5,000 students! They could've very easily split that up into three high schools. And then all three would be smaller, with potential stars and donors diluted to the point that none of the three programs offer anything remotely close to what the huge Allen High offers now. At a super large school, everything end up being bigger or more robust. Academically, many feel that comes with trade-off costs. So, it may not be the case that super large schools are best overall for students. BUT, when it comes to sports programs, the benefits are obvious. If you separate schools from mega, for-profit sports programs, school enrollment doesn't matter any more. A Manatee county area super program pulling in fans from all over the area, could be something very special. Of course, they'd face special programs from other areas as well. So, the quality of play would be better. Also, with fewer programs in this super league, the need for officials is also less. This should lead to cutting the worst performing officials and eliminate the shortage we face currently.  

I've never gotten the impression that AAU teams were tied to geographic areas and regional pride. And, the AAU championships have never been seen as THE championships. They're also held in summer, when folks aren't paying attention to basketball. But, sure, considerations around how to avoid making such a league another kind of AAU thing would be important.

[PinellasFB]

Both my boys wrestle and play football.  I am very familiar with the home schooled wrestlers who are free agents wrestling for the various power programs in the state.  I can say with great certainty that nearly 100% will not earn a college scholarship in wrestling because wrestling is literally the hardest sport to earn a full ride in.  There are only 10 collegiate weight classes compared to 14 in high school.  You could be the state champ at your weight class but to wrestle at the next level, you will also have to be better than other kids at a weight class above and below you.  Additionally, there are only 70 D1 wrestling schools and not a single D3, D2 or D1 team in Florida.  Finally, Pennsylvania is so far above every other state in wrestling that they will take half of the scholarships, leaving crumbs for everyone else. 

Last note, wrestling also has very poor NIL prospects.  So kids that are sacrificing their HS experience to wrestle three hours away are doing it for only high school glory, nothing else.  After wrestling is over, what can they do with their shitty education?  The kids I know that are home school athletes pretty much just train all day.  I wonder when they even go to school at home? 

[Longtime Observer]

Just announced that Miami Northwestern will face Lakeland Aug. 16 at 7pm at...Vero Beach High. So, a somewhat middle ground for each. Weird venue to be sure!

[FBGUY1989]

2 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Just announced that Miami Northwestern will face Lakeland Aug. 16 at 7pm at...Vero Beach High. So, a somewhat middle ground for each. Weird venue to be sure!

Lakeland must be having renovations done to their stadium.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, Longtime Observer said:

Just announced that Miami Northwestern will face Lakeland Aug. 16 at 7pm at...Vero Beach High. So, a somewhat middle ground for each. Weird venue to be sure!

Although not much is known yet, apparently it’s the marquee game of the “Treasure Coast Kickoff Classic”- an event being put on by the Treasure Coast Sports Commission. Nothing else has been announced but I would expect Vero to play Friday night August 15, but as they have not made any schedule announcements yet this year, so their opponent is TBD. 

This is the first time Vero has ever hosted an event like this, as they’ve always played a traditional KOC game that week. 

[DILLARDBOYZ954]

44 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Although not much is known yet, apparently it’s the marquee game of the “Treasure Coast Kickoff Classic”- an event being put on by the Treasure Coast Sports Commission. Nothing else has been announced but I would expect Vero to play Friday night August 15, but as they have not made any schedule announcements yet this year, so their opponent is TBD. 

This is the first time Vero has ever hosted an event like this, as they’ve always played a traditional KOC game that week. 

I’m hearing , it’s Lakeland vs Miami northwestern, Vero Vs Miami norland , and carol city vs Lincoln Tallahassee 

[nolebull813]

10 hours ago, DILLARDBOYZ954 said:

I’m hearing , it’s Lakeland vs Miami northwestern, Vero Vs Miami norland , and carol city vs Lincoln Tallahassee 

Too bad this wasn’t a regular season event