Cocoa Beach factor in play-offs

[Bamarod]

As of now in 4A we have an eligible Cocoa Beach (4-2) team making play-offs and in another region BTW might not make it. I realize changes will be made next year for qualification but this is a textbook example of the problem. Ranked #2 in 4A BTW had one of the toughest schedules in the state or country for that matter. Cocoa Beach has wins against #515,#549,#550,#565 in the state and none of those teams have a winning record, combined 7-24 record.

 From my glance, Cocoa Beach did the opposite of BTW by looking for the weakest schedule it could book hoping wins against the pathetic would garner more points than losses to mediocre teams.  This is the key point in this topic, we don't want to reward this kind of scheduling by Cocoa Beach and the penalty has to be missing play-offs.Every school should at minimum be trying to schedule a couple games each year where they are challenging themselves(even expecting a loss). Cocoa Beaches losses were to #335 and #428, not exactly powerhouses, but at least indicative of where more of their games should of been scheduled to be considered for a play-off birth.

I just brought this up because I realized Cocoa Beach and BTW were now in the same class, how ironic it could be as terrible a playoff game with Cocoa Beach included would be and how sad BTW being excluded.

[nolebull813]

That would be a tragedy. 

This new product is trash and needs to be modified asap!

 

[DarterBlue2]

1 minute ago, nolebull813 said:

That would be a tragedy. 

This new product is trash and needs to be modified asap!

 

Why don't you submit proposed changes to the FHSAA?

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

That would be a tragedy. 

This new product is trash and needs to be modified asap!

 

If this new system is trash then old one was a dumpster fire

[Bamarod]

14 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

If this new system is trash then old one was a dumpster fire

I don't think anyone will argue that one. People who implemented this plan should have foreseen the issue of people tanking on schedules. I guess more points need to be added for scheduling and losing to a better opponent. This should prevent more and more schools from going lower in class but actually working with one another to make better match-ups and not settling like Cocoa Beach for example.  

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, Bamarod said:

I don't think anyone will argue that one. People who implemented this plan should have foreseen the issue of people tanking on schedules. I guess more points need to be added for scheduling and losing to a better opponent. This should prevent more and more schools from going lower in class but actually working with one another to make better match-ups and not settling like Cocoa Beach for example.  

They can always fix the points so that could happen this off season 

[nolebull813]

23 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Why don't you submit proposed changes to the FHSAA?

They won't listen. 

They needed to eliminate class 2A. There was 29 teams in it and almost all of them were hot garbage. There are a lot of independent conferences like the SSAC, North Florida, Southeastern etc. These conferences would have been open arms to these garbage teams. Because these small conferences have nothing but garbage teams. 

The teams that didn't want to do that could go independent altogether. There are plenty of Indy teams right now so a few more wouldn't hurt. 

Do that or just combine 1A and 2A again and tell 1A to stop being scared and compete with Jax UC and Champagnat. Personally ever since the split because 1A was scared of 2A teams, I feel the top 1A teams were better. 

Hell Jax UC won 2A the same year they lost to a 1A first round loser! 

So those were the options to cut a class 

more coming 

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

They won't listen. 

They needed to eliminate class 2A. There was 29 teams in it and almost all of them were hot garbage. There are a lot of independent conferences like the SSAC, North Florida, Southeastern etc. These conferences would have been open arms to these garbage teams. Because these small conferences have nothing but garbage teams. 

The teams that didn't want to do that could go independent altogether. There are plenty of Indy teams right now so a few more wouldn't hurt. 

Do that or just combine 1A and 2A again and tell 1A to stop being scared and compete with Jax UC and Champagnat. Personally ever since the split because 1A was scared of 2A teams, I feel the top 1A teams were better. 

Hell Jax UC won 2A the same year they lost to a 1A first round loser! 

So those were the options to cut a class 

more coming 

Other states have a rural class

 

These new rules led to a exodus in 3 and 4a to 5a

 

What they should do is combine 2 and 3a 

 

Both are mostly private schools so they will live 

 

And if Madison is 1a then so should Newberry and Fort White 

[nolebull813]

They can chop the 6 highest classes into 4 easy. 

There were an average of 85 teams per class in 5A-8A. And there were about 45 teams each in 3A and 4A. 

So 85 teams in 16 districts is an average of 5.3 teams per district. 

Adding those 90 teams from 3A and 4A to the 4 new classes would make each class have about 107 teams and 6.6 teams per district. 

So basically cutting 2 classes out would add about 1-2 teams per district. That's nothing. It would help with travel, and larger districts help with scheduling. 

So the state could have 5 classes and the district races and playoffs would be outstanding. 

[nolebull813]

8 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Other states have a rural class

 

These new rules led to a exodus in 3 and 4a to 5a

 

What they should do is combine 2 and 3a 

 

Both are mostly private schools so they will live 

 

And if Madison is 1a then so should Newberry and Fort White 

Who gives a shit that they are rural? That makes it sound like Madison County and Pahokee can't compete with these chump 2A teams. 

I bet 1A wins more than they lose vs 2A if you went down the line 

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, nolebull813 said:

Who gives a shit that they are rural? That makes it sound like Madison County and Pahokee can't compete with these chump 2A teams. 

I bet 1A wins more than they lose vs 2A if you went down the line 

Those 2 can

 

Heck those 2 could win in 5a

 

My point is it would be far easier and smarter to combine 2 and 3a

 

The top teams in 2a could compete in 3a and teams like university Christian and north Florida Christian would add a little bit of depth to 3a north tp replace Trinity Christian plus Champagnat could be added to the south 

 

Plus Cambridge and victory Christian could be added to region 2 of 3a

 

 

And while they at it put newberry and fort white back in 1a and give that class a little more depth

 

So you clear 1 class and improve 2 of them

[nolebull813]

No I think NFC and UC would get crushed by Chaminade and Oxbridge. No team in 2A would have a shot in hell at winning 3A

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

No I think NFC and UC would get crushed by Chaminade and Oxbridge. No team in 2A would have a shot in hell at winning 3A

Oxbridge is supposed to struggle next year 

 

CCC in south region 

 

 

So Tampa Catholic and MCC would be favorites in 3a north

 

Trust me they could use a little more depth in 3a north 

[DisabledAccount]

Explain to me this

 

What does leaving them in 2a accomplish for anyone? 

[Cat_Scratch]

21 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Other states have a rural class

 

These new rules led to a exodus in 3 and 4a to 5a

 

What they should do is combine 2 and 3a 

 

Both are mostly private schools so they will live 

 

And if Madison is 1a then so should Newberry and Fort White 

Or combine 1 and 2A and 3 and 4A. Just have 2 classes and some of those teams would drop to Indy class.

[badbird]

The small schools complained so much which is why we have 4 classes with half the teams.

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Cat_Scratch said:

Or combine 1 and 2A and 3 and 4A. Just have 2 classes and some of those teams would drop to Indy class.

I don't like idea of privates and publics in same class 

 

Other states seperate them why can't Florida

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, badbird said:

The small schools complained so much which is why we have 4 classes with half the teams.

I have no problem with a rural class if managed right but if Madison is 1a then so should newberry and fort white 

 

Heck a team like Taylor County should be in the rural class

 

But having 2a and 3a Which are basically 2 seperate small private classes makes no sense, those should be combined 

[badbird]

Put all the 2a 3a private in one and all the 1a 2a 3a public in one.  Combine 4-8 into 4 classes.  Drops you from 8 classes to 6 and probably no More 3 team districts

[gatorman-uf]

1A only has 35 teams not like they are swimming in teams.
2A is fine, but more of the independent schools should play in the classification. No, 2A isn't going to be competitive with many schools. It is why we place schools in classifications to ensure similar level schools (based on size face each other). 
3A - there might be 6 public schools in 3A, moving them up to 4A is a little harsh.

As for why we don't combine all the private schools into one classification, they pretty much are. Look at 2A and 3A, almost all private schools. Also when you look at the 2A vs 3A schools in terms of players, there is a huge difference in #. Once you get into 5A and above there aren't that many teams and can't make a whole classification.
8A - Columbus, Belen
7A - STA,
6A - Archbishop McCarthy
5A - Bolles, Bishop Kenny, Trinity Christian, Tampa Jesuit, Bishop Moore, John Carroll, American Heritage (Plantation), Cardinal Gibbons, 

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Yes, we should go down one classification 4A-8A which would add about 20 teams per classification and maybe one team per district. 
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The whole reason 1A was created was to ensure fairness, basically 1A schools threatened to leave the FHSAA or all go independent because they were tired of playing the private schools like Trinity Christian, Trinity Catholic, University Christian and NFC (I like the fact people accuse the small private schools of complaining, but forget the rural public schools also whined). Heck, they even whined when some public schools were 7 student over the cap of 600. Even when these small public schools did make it the state championships (before the creation of the rural league), they did not perform well. So why would they ever combine 1A with anything. Additionally 1A football has one of the highest attendance in state championship despite the drive of at least one team from the Panhandle. 
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As for 2A and 3A combining, again. Fairness, a 2A school is looking at most 290 students (most are a lot less), divide that by 2 for the number of boys and you are at 145, divide them by equal grade level and you are looking at 36 boys per grade level, and maybe 7-8 of those play football. Small private schools want to play other small private schools who are facing similar restrictions. Many of these schools do not take football seriously as it just one avenue for them. Their entire football staff might be 3-5 guys who are volunteers. Do not confuse all private schools with STA and Bolles.
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As for what does "keeping them in 2A do for anyone" maybe it is not about your ego, maybe it is about those kids. Maybe, every school doesn't want to compete for a mythical national championship but offer an extracurricular that encourages teamwork, leadership, and fellowship. Maybe, those schools don't give shit if it benefits anybody else, but their own players and communities. Let them play their football, you play yours, the two don't have to interfere. That is why you keep it. Additionally, the FHSAA benefits by making some money from their playoff games.

[gatorman-uf]

I will also continue to say the old system was not a dumpster fire, the very best teams always made the playoffs. Did a team that today we might consider the 6th seed not make the playoffs in the old system? Yep. Did a team that would be ranked 16th in the new system be in the playoffs occasionally? Yep.

But those sins are a lot smaller than the consensus best teams in the classifications not making it. And again, the really bad teams making the playoffs happens because of small districts, something that was easier to fix than the radical chance this untested was. 

In the old system, some of the best teams might have been on the road for 4 games, but they were in it. We have had numerous posts about how 2 top ranked teams might miss the playoffs all together for scheduling tough. The thing is that if those teams scheduled tough in the old system, they still make the playoffs. I will continually ask and nobody ever seems to answer, but how did the old system discourage teams from playing a tough schedule? If you lost against a good team, it didn't hurt your chances of ultimately achieving your goal of making the playoffs and winning a state championship. Now, if you schedule tough and lose a couple, you might not be in the playoffs.

Teams are going to figure this out quickly. Again, the problem of blowouts is because we put teams of different quality in the same districts/classifications. Look at Bolles playing Westside (Jacksonville) or this Friday playing Terry Parker. Bolles is already playing up, but neither Parker not Westside should be competing against Bolles.

The current system says 35 points for a Category 4 win vs 30 for a Category 1 loss. Some say that losing to a 10-0 by 1 point should mean more than beating an 0-10 by 50. They say decrease the Category 4 win points and increase Category 1 loss points. At that point, you will see teams schedule tougher, but to what end? One of the original proposals did something similar and an 0-10 Creekside would have made the playoffs that year because of the difficulty of their schedule. 

Again, if you want better games, eliminate one classification from 4A-8A. The longer a team goes without making the playoffs subtract students from their population, the more and deeper they make it, add more students. This will eventually even out. With bad schools moving down, good schools moving up. As bad schools move down they will become more competitive, learn to win, and able to move back up. As good schools move up, they will become less dominating and either become better or move back down to become competitive.

[DisabledAccount]

Well there goes double digit years of playoff streaks 

[peezy28]

12 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I don't like idea of privates and publics in same class 

 

Other states seperate them why can't Florida

 

Because we are Florida.... We shouldn't run from competition. 

[Laid]

13 hours ago, nolebull813 said:

They won't listen. 

They needed to eliminate class 2A. There was 29 teams in it and almost all of them were hot garbage. There are a lot of independent conferences like the SSAC, North Florida, Southeastern etc. These conferences would have been open arms to these garbage teams. Because these small conferences have nothing but garbage teams. 

The teams that didn't want to do that could go independent altogether. There are plenty of Indy teams right now so a few more wouldn't hurt. 

Do that or just combine 1A and 2A again and tell 1A to stop being scared and compete with Jax UC and Champagnat. Personally ever since the split because 1A was scared of 2A teams, I feel the top 1A teams were better. 

Hell Jax UC won 2A the same year they lost to a 1A first round loser! 

So those were the options to cut a class 

more coming 

Pahokee isn't scared of no one in 2a

[DisabledAccount]

53 minutes ago, peezy28 said:

 

Because we are Florida.... We shouldn't run from competition. 

And Columbia has beaten bolles and Trinity Christian in past 3 years

 

Don't mean we should be in same class as privates