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blackmagic

Whats the real solution to playoffs???

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3 minutes ago, Willie Stargell said:

The only facts you present are outcomes of actual games. Everything else is totally your opinion - which I’m not going to waste time arguing. 

Bc what other facts do i need to present other than perfect examples of why only district champs making playoffs would make no sense 

 

1980 raiders,  1997 Broncos, 2000 ravens,  2005 Steelers, 2007 giants,  2010 packers and 2011 giants

 

All finished second in their division 

 

All won Super Bowl 

 

In fact every team there defeated the division champs in the playoffs in a rematch on route to winning the Super Bowl 

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I’m sorry...you’ve gone to the NFL now?

hahahahaha

Can you, at the very least, realize that all of these are examples of empty rhetoric?

...Basically every team would be against it

...teams improve through the year

...would think that a good team will be at their best in November vs September

...you would have had a west Orange team eventually embarrassed in playoffs by someone else

...Which sounds like the clear winner  and who looks like the lucky winner

...a team getting lucky in first game

...isn't always the best team the entire season 

 

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1 minute ago, Willie Stargell said:

I’m sorry...you’ve gone to the NFL now?

hahahahaha

Can you, at the very least, realize that all of these are examples of empty rhetoric?

...Basically every team would be against it

...teams improve through the year

...would think that a good team will be at their best in November vs September

...you would have had a west Orange team eventually embarrassed in playoffs by someone else

...Which sounds like the clear winner  and who looks like the lucky winner

...a team getting lucky in first game

...isn't always the best team the entire season 

 

You telling me teams are the same level week 1 as in November? 

 

You must be joking 

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I want a winner of a game.

You want an escape plan for a team you personally think is “better” (despite evidence to the contrary) to get another chance.

just call it what it is...I’m a dinosaur. You’re the voice of the modern conscience. I get it. Doesn’t make me wrong. Doesn’t make you wrong. HOWEVER, you can’t dispute what modern thinking does...it waters things down to meld with relativism. Do what you want, but your system won’t be pure.

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1 minute ago, Willie Stargell said:

I want a winner of a game.

You want an escape plan for a team you personally think is “better” (despite evidence to the contrary) to get another chance.

just call it what it is...I’m a dinosaur. You’re the voice of the modern conscience. I get it. Doesn’t make me wrong. Doesn’t make you wrong. HOWEVER, you can’t dispute what modern thinking does...it waters things down to meld with relativism. Do what you want, but your system won’t be pure.

You have yet to explain how teams are the same exact level from beginning of the season and end of season 

 

I could write a entire book on teams losing the first game only to beat them in next matchup (or matchups, in some sports you play teams 2 3 or 4 times during the year)

 

Just ask Gainesville high school LMAO 

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I don’t have to explain anything.

You see, in my world, a winner is a winner...and a loser is a loser. 

Sorry about your feelings. It is what it is. If you want to be better, you win.

name calling, claiming everyone else is on your side and “lol-ing” are not viable forms of debate.

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1 minute ago, Willie Stargell said:

I don’t have to explain anything.

You see, in my world, a winner is a winner...and a loser is a loser. 

Sorry about your feelings. It is what it is. If you want to be better, you win.

name calling, claiming everyone else is on your side and “lol-ing” are not viable forms of debate.

Bc you can't prove it 

 

teams improve as season goes on 

 

So let me ask you this if a team plays in a 4 game series and 1 team wins First matchup and other team wins next 3 which team is better? 

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This kid has lost his mind. It’s melted.

I can’t prove it? That one team beat another? You’re the only one who can’t “prove” that...see ‘66 Palatka over Columbia.

you can’t come up with a scenario that works...now you want four game series as part of the post season? Why am I wasting my time?

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1 minute ago, Willie Stargell said:

This kid has lost his mind. It’s melted.

I can’t prove it? That one team beat another? You’re the only one who can’t “prove” that...see ‘66 Palatka over Columbia.

you can’t come up with a scenario that works...now you want four game series as part of the post season? Why am I wasting my time?

I have records to prove we beat Palatka i would glady show you the results if i could 

 

You can't prove that teams are the same level at beginning of season because it is not remotely possible 

 

Players mature during the season with experience so they aren't at same level at beginning of the season 

 

And fyi i was not asking for a 4 game series i was asking who is better if a team plays 4 times and wins 3 out of 4?

 

Is it the team who wins once or team who wins 3 times? 

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6 minutes ago, Willie Stargell said:

You have records. We have someone who played in the game...SMH...only this generation.

If that is case then @stoner77 what was the score you were told to this Palatka game 

 

If my records are wrong I'm going to investigate it myself 

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Willie,

I am not one for this system (I will do my part to improve it, but I prefer the previous system for the very reasons you stated that a win against other district opponents is a win, a loss is a loss). It is an apples to apples comparison. The current system (especially for 1A-4A) is not an apples to apples in comparison, could a team game the system to earn a playoff berth, yes. Did some teams do what the FHSAA suggested and schedule "good record" teams, yes (Columbia adding Trinity Christian and Bolles is a good example of that). 

As for the suggestion of eliminating huge numbers of classifications...

1) Don't touch 1A or 2A, these schools have their own unique situations that give them a competitive disadvantage when competing against other schools and need to be separated from everyone else. I would like to see more independent schools become 2A.

2) I think there are 428 teams 3A-8A schools. If you cut one classification, you would be at 85 teams per classification (which is essentially what it is now). So basically just combine 3A-4A and problems gets solved.

3) Use only 3 district per region (which should increase the size of all districts), Champion, Runner-up, 2 wild cards based on the Laz Index or Pinkos or even revised power points. 

---------------------
Alternatively, we take the top 64 teams according to the LaxIndex (since 1999-2015) (he didn't update 2016) and put them in a 8 districts of 8 (see below). That leaves 364 teams in 3A-7A (shrink by one classification) and we have 91 teams per classification with all of the teams that people want to run away from out of the districts. We put them in a classification (only Madison County is removed due to being 1A). Don't get me wrong, I know that some of these historical good teams are mediocre or below over the past 3-4 years. A couple of the teams are in awkward geographical locations (Glades Central, Vero Beach, North Marion)

We play 2 seasons, 2 teams per district with the worst district performance overall in new OPEN class (7A) will move out. 16 new teams join based off lazindex or pinkos or another process. 

Before anybody gets too worked up over the teams that are in here, remember this is looking at 1999-2015. I know some current teams would get creamed, but I am sure there would be adequate replacements. 


District 1
Lincoln High School
Amos P. Godby High School
Niceville High School
Pine Forest High School
Pace High School
Pensacola High School
Choctawhatchee High School
Milton High School

District 2
Bolles School
Columbia High School
St Augustine High School
Trinity Christian Academy
Duncan U. Fletcher High School
William M. Raines High School
Edward H. White High School
North Marion High School

District 3
Apopka High School
Mainland High School
Cocoa High School
Edgewater High School
Osceola High School
Lake Brantley High School
Dr. Phillips High School
Merritt Island High School

District 4
Lakeland Senior High School
Armwood High School
Hillsborough High School
HB Plant High School
Jefferson High School
Lake Gibson High School
South Sumter High School
Jesuit

District 5
Naples High School
Venice High School
Southeast High School
Charlotte High School
Glades Central Community High School
Fort Myers High School
Immokalee High School
Manatee High School

District 6
Deerfield Beach High School
Blanche Ely High School
Palm Bay Magnet High School
William T. Dwyer High School
Vero Beach High School
Palm Beach Gardens Community High School
Dillard High School
Atlantic Community High School

District 7
Miami Carol City Senior High School
St.Thomas Aquinas High School
Plantation High School
American Heritage School
Miramar High School
Miami Norland Senior High School
Monsignor Edward Pace High School
Cypress Bay High School

District 8
Booker T. Washington Senior High School
Christopher Columbus High School
Miami Northwestern Senior High
Miami Southridge Senior High School
Miami Killian Senior High School
South Dade Senior High School
Miami Jackson Senior High School
Miami Central Senior High School
 

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13 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Willie,

I am not one for this system (I will do my part to improve it, but I prefer the previous system for the very reasons you stated that a win against other district opponents is a win, a loss is a loss). It is an apples to apples comparison. The current system (especially for 1A-4A) is not an apples to apples in comparison, could a team game the system to earn a playoff berth, yes. Did some teams do what the FHSAA suggested and schedule "good record" teams, yes (Columbia adding Trinity Christian and Bolles is a good example of that). 

As for the suggestion of eliminating huge numbers of classifications...

1) Don't touch 1A or 2A, these schools have their own unique situations that give them a competitive disadvantage when competing against other schools and need to be separated from everyone else. I would like to see more independent schools become 2A.

2) I think there are 428 teams 3A-8A schools. If you cut one classification, you would be at 85 teams per classification (which is essentially what it is now). So basically just combine 3A-4A and problems gets solved.

3) Use only 3 district per region (which should increase the size of all districts), Champion, Runner-up, 2 wild cards based on the Laz Index or Pinkos or even revised power points. 

---------------------
Alternatively, we take the top 64 teams according to the LaxIndex (since 1999-2015) (he didn't update 2016) and put them in a 8 districts of 8 (see below). That leaves 364 teams in 3A-7A (shrink by one classification) and we have 91 teams per classification with all of the teams that people want to run away from out of the districts. We put them in a classification (only Madison County is removed due to being 1A). Don't get me wrong, I know that some of these historical good teams are mediocre or below over the past 3-4 years. A couple of the teams are in awkward geographical locations (Glades Central, Vero Beach, North Marion)

We play 2 seasons, 2 teams per district with the worst district performance overall in new OPEN class (7A) will move out. 16 new teams join based off lazindex or pinkos or another process. 

Before anybody gets too worked up over the teams that are in here, remember this is looking at 1999-2015. I know some current teams would get creamed, but I am sure there would be adequate replacements. 


District 1
Lincoln High School
Amos P. Godby High School
Niceville High School
Pine Forest High School
Pace High School
Pensacola High School
Choctawhatchee High School
Milton High School

District 2
Bolles School
Columbia High School
St Augustine High School
Trinity Christian Academy
Duncan U. Fletcher High School
William M. Raines High School
Edward H. White High School
North Marion High School

District 3
Apopka High School
Mainland High School
Cocoa High School
Edgewater High School
Osceola High School
Lake Brantley High School
Dr. Phillips High School
Merritt Island High School

District 4
Lakeland Senior High School
Armwood High School
Hillsborough High School
HB Plant High School
Jefferson High School
Lake Gibson High School
South Sumter High School
Jesuit

District 5
Naples High School
Venice High School
Southeast High School
Charlotte High School
Glades Central Community High School
Fort Myers High School
Immokalee High School
Manatee High School

District 6
Deerfield Beach High School
Blanche Ely High School
Palm Bay Magnet High School
William T. Dwyer High School
Vero Beach High School
Palm Beach Gardens Community High School
Dillard High School
Atlantic Community High School

District 7
Miami Carol City Senior High School
St.Thomas Aquinas High School
Plantation High School
American Heritage School
Miramar High School
Miami Norland Senior High School
Monsignor Edward Pace High School
Cypress Bay High School

District 8
Booker T. Washington Senior High School
Christopher Columbus High School
Miami Northwestern Senior High
Miami Southridge Senior High School
Miami Killian Senior High School
South Dade Senior High School
Miami Jackson Senior High School
Miami Central Senior High School
 

wow, your system aint as pissed at us as I expected, we could probably win that district 

 

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5 minutes ago, Willie Stargell said:

Dang, gatorman-uf...you put in a full days work to put that together!


Thanks... but only 30 minutes, Laz did most of the work with having the stats, from there it was just about creating a google map with all 64 teams and grouping them in colors. Takes very little time and then copying and pasting. 

Whatever system is used, the FHSAA has to show the full effects. For example, Josh has mentioned that there will be tweaks to the current system (Let's assume he is correct as he is a pretty knowledgeable guy), the FHSAA better show how the new points would apply to the last season so that we can see what effects it has.

If I am going to suggest that we take the top 64 teams and put them in a classification, I better be able to tell you who those 64 would be, how it groups together. Otherwise people are guessing who is in that grouping and not.
 

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Even though Columbiaman got a little flustered, I considered this good conversation. I am able to step back and see that, although I think something might be better, there is more than one way to skin a cat...not everyone is capable of pulling that off. Most resort to bully tactics like name calling...but I digress. If you want to know who the best team is for the entire season, then you need to measure the entire season...that seems like common sense to me, but common sense is rather uncommon anymore. The beginning of the season and the end of the season must have the same weight, if you're looking for an accurate measurement. With that said, I'm not sure taking the top-64 and putting them into some sort of "showcase" league is an answer that will work either.

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8 minutes ago, Willie Stargell said:

Even though Columbiaman got a little flustered, I considered this good conversation. I am able to step back and see that, although I think something might be better, there is more than one way to skin a cat...not everyone is capable of pulling that off. Most resort to bully tactics like name calling...but I digress. If you want to know who the best team is for the entire season, then you need to measure the entire season...that seems like common sense to me, but common sense is rather uncommon anymore. The beginning of the season and the end of the season must have the same weight, if you're looking for an accurate measurement. With that said, I'm not sure taking the top-64 and putting them into some sort of "showcase" league is an answer that will work either.

Then how does judging a team based on one loss make any sense? 

 

If we are judging on entire season then why would keeping a team out based on one slip up be determining who the better team is

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