FHSAA classification proposal

[gatorman-uf]

On 11/2/2025 at 11:40 PM, Nulli Secundus said:

This is not rocket science.  In the age of open transfers, the classes need to be based on performance, not enrollment but what the hell do I know?  The FHSAA could pay a consultant $250K for the info that I and a few other posters have provided for free.  Yes, I'm a proponent for reclassifying every year as personnel changes every year, right!?  Beyond disgusted.

I have not paid attention, but are you saying the FHSAA paid someone 250K to come up with that plan? Please tell me I am misreading that. 

[Nulli Secundus]

6 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I have not paid attention, but are you saying the FHSAA paid someone 250K to come up with that plan? Please tell me I am misreading that. 

Hey Gatorman.  No they didn't pay anyone but maybe they should've if these are the best options availed to the FHSAA.

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, Nulli Secundus said:

Hey Gatorman.  No they didn't pay anyone but maybe they should've if these are the best options availed to the FHSAA.

I hate to undercut you Nulli, but I'll do it for $200K.  It won't be as good as yours, but it'll be better than what they've got!  

[Nulli Secundus]

53 minutes ago, Perspective said:

I hate to undercut you Nulli, but I'll do it for $200K.  It won't be as good as yours, but it'll be better than what they've got!  

Bill the state!

[Dr. D]

All this talk about computer rankings makes me grateful that we have games this week and can settle things on the field, where football is meant to be judged, not in some computer closet in El Dorado Hills, California.  On the realignment front, one needs to look no further than neighboring Georgia, where the GHSA has released its realignment, to see how to do it right: https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/reclassification/GHSA_Proposed_Region_Alignment_for_2026-2028_11-10-2025.pdf

Beautiful 6/7/8/9-team regions (i.e. “districts” in Florida language) with round-robin play, to determine a true, well-earned championship.  I am hoping that the FHSAA will do away with the ridiculous 2/3/4-team districts when the realignment results are released.  Even though everyone seems married to computer rankings, maybe the computer savants herein could confirm that larger districts would at least produce better computer rankings due to the larger number of common opponents.  Anyway, let’s hope that the FHSAA gets this right, although that may be expecting too much.  And good luck to your favorite team!      

[181pl]

4 public school classes. 12 districts each of at least 7 teams per. Top two make it. Four wild cards per section based on points for deserving teams left out. 

2 private school classes with 4 Regions each. Top 8 in each region make it. 

Publics and privates can play each other during regular season. Open Bowl like California at end of playoffs for two highest ranked teams if they want to play. Or GEICO style national game if available…

 

[SoftballGuy]

15 minutes ago, 181pl said:

4 public school classes. 12 districts each of at least 7 teams per. Top two make it. Four wild cards per section based on points for deserving teams left out. 

2 private school classes with 4 Regions each. Top 8 in each region make it. 

Publics and privates can play each other during regular season. Open Bowl like California at end of playoffs for two highest ranked teams if they want to play. Or GEICO style national game if available…

 

Take it up with Tallahassee. They are the ones who refuse to let publics and privates be separated which is something you have been told hundreds of times

How you can be told something hundreds of times and still keep suggesting it makes me want to put my own head through a wall

[181pl]

3 hours ago, SoftballGuy said:

Take it up with Tallahassee. They are the ones who refuse to let publics and privates be separated which is something you have been told hundreds of times

How you can be told something hundreds of times and still keep suggesting it makes me want to put my own head through a wall

does it really matter something has been stated hundreds of times? It still doesn’t make it right. I can still have my own opinions. You don’t have to read the damn thing.

 

Meanwhile, the same group of people keep coming up with the most inane and nonsensical ways to handle the playoffs and the classifications. Wonder if that has any direct correlation to the huge drop in coverage and popularity of the sport over the last 10 or 15 years?

[SoftballGuy]

2 hours ago, 181pl said:

does it really matter something has been stated hundreds of times? It still doesn’t make it right. I can still have my own opinions. You don’t have to read the damn thing.

 

Meanwhile, the same group of people keep coming up with the most inane and nonsensical ways to handle the playoffs and the classifications. Wonder if that has any direct correlation to the huge drop in coverage and popularity of the sport over the last 10 or 15 years?

I've suggested multiple ideas that break away from the norm and that would fix a lot of the current issues and our incompetent state leadership won't touch it 

[Dr. D]

There were 120 first round games played in the 8 FHSAA classifications this weekend.  The median (50% higher/50% lower) margin of victory was 28 points.  52 games (43%) were decided by 35+ points (running clock).  Only 31 games (26%) were decided by 14 points or less.  Other than a handful of competitive games, it was another round of lopsided games and blowouts.  Yes, sign me up for more of the same in the next reclassification cycle.  Sheesh!  

[SoftballGuy]

39 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

There were 120 first round games played in the 8 FHSAA classifications this weekend.  The median (50% higher/50% lower) margin of victory was 28 points.  52 games (43%) were decided by 35+ points (running clock).  Only 31 games (26%) were decided by 14 points or less.  Other than a handful of competitive games, it was another round of lopsided games and blowouts.  Yes, sign me up for more of the same in the next reclassification cycle.  Sheesh!  

This wouldn't have happened if they kept metro suburban like I said until I was blue in the face 

Of course the fhsaa thought going back to a broken clock would suddenly mean the clock would fix itself and look at the results 

[gatorman-uf]

19 hours ago, Dr. D said:

There were 120 first round games played in the 8 FHSAA classifications this weekend.  The median (50% higher/50% lower) margin of victory was 28 points.  52 games (43%) were decided by 35+ points (running clock).  Only 31 games (26%) were decided by 14 points or less.  Other than a handful of competitive games, it was another round of lopsided games and blowouts.  Yes, sign me up for more of the same in the next reclassification cycle.  Sheesh!  

Wouldn't that be expected in any situation where we are seeding teams? Like the gap between a #1 and #8 is supposed to be big. If that continues in the 2nd round or the state finals, I think that is the bigger problem.

And no, I am not suggesting that the system is good. For than 10 years, I have suggested that we do a classification system based on previous seasons' success rather than population. 

[Dr. D]

Yes, that’s exactly what you would expect in Classes with widely disparate talent levels.  Just as is often seen in the opening round of NCAA March Madness.  And if one finds that desirable or entertaining, then so be it.  My point is that there are a multitude of ways to potentially provide more equitable competition in the regular season and playoffs.  For all the whining, the Metro-Suburban set-up provided more competitive playoffs.  Other methods (as you point out) have been proposed on these pages.  But perhaps I am in the minority view, and the status quo is acceptable to those involved.  

[SoftballGuy]

52 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

Yes, that’s exactly what you would expect in Classes with widely disparate talent levels.  Just as is often seen in the opening round of NCAA March Madness.  And if one finds that desirable or entertaining, then so be it.  My point is that there are a multitude of ways to potentially provide more equitable competition in the regular season and playoffs.  For all the whining, the Metro-Suburban set-up provided more competitive playoffs.  Other methods (as you point out) have been proposed on these pages.  But perhaps I am in the minority view, and the status quo is acceptable to those involved.  

Its acceptable to the clowns running the fhsaa but thats what happens when the governor who has no experience running athletics decides to reform the fhsaa board of directors with corporate "yes men" 

You end up with people completely clueless on the needs of the athletic programs because they never followed the growing issues on a year to year basis and are trying to treat athletics like it's the 70s before school choice, open transfers, etc was a major concern or issue

Metro suburban worked because it was the only thing the fhsaa ever did to address the talent discrepancy between teams recruiting in large metros and the smaller areas of the state 

After all Chaminade-Madonna has a very small enrollment yet can beat anyone larger typically. Same goes for schools like Booker T Washington, Trinity Christian,  Bolles,  Cocoa. Like I can keep naming schools who routinely beat schools 3 times their size which shows how little enrollment matters when you can recruit from your entire county line or sometimes even into another county 

[Ray Icaza]

53 minutes ago, Dr. D said:

Yes, that’s exactly what you would expect in Classes with widely disparate talent levels.  Just as is often seen in the opening round of NCAA March Madness.  And if one finds that desirable or entertaining, then so be it.  My point is that there are a multitude of ways to potentially provide more equitable competition in the regular season and playoffs.  For all the whining, the Metro-Suburban set-up provided more competitive playoffs.  Other methods (as you point out) have been proposed on these pages.  But perhaps I am in the minority view, and the status quo is acceptable to those involved.  

We should all want competitiveness as well as fairness and no question those 2 metrics were better achieved with the Suburban/Metro formula and yes, I was in favor of that system as were many around the state.  Some folks wanted to smear the achievement of teams in the Suburban part as not being real champions, but most of us weren't fazed by that characterization.   In time, the necessary tweaks could have been made to make it even better but the Metro schools that clearly have the competitive advantage due to surrounding populations didn't want to limit the championships they could collect if they had to beat each other to do it.   Sad that the solution from those loud voices returned us to the mess we are trying to make better.   Dr. D, you might hold the view of the little guy in this universe but not the minority. 

[SoftballGuy]

15 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

We should all want competitiveness as well as fairness and no question those 2 metrics were better achieved with the Suburban/Metro formula and yes, I was in favor of that system as were many around the state.  Some folks wanted to smear the achievement of teams in the Suburban part as not being real champions, but most of us weren't fazed by that characterization.   In time, the necessary tweaks could have been made to make it even better but the Metro schools that clearly have the competitive advantage due to surrounding populations didn't want to limit the championships they could collect if they had to beat each other to do it.   Sad that the solution from those loud voices returned us to the mess we are trying to make better.   Dr. D, you might hold the view of the little guy in this universe but not the minority. 

Unfortunately that ended up being all the morons in Tallahassee saw and as a result we went back to a broken system that was failing for over a decade because they somehow thought undoing the only thing that actually made athletics competitive this century was somehow a good thing 

[SoftballGuy]

The reality is you can drop a classification or two 

But it will never make athletics more competitive because using student population is no longer an efficient way to determine the competitive level of programs and any change made will continue to fail because the foundation is rotting at the seams

[gbrown977]

1 hour ago, SoftballGuy said:

The reality is you can drop a classification or two 

But it will never make athletics more competitive because using student population is no longer an efficient way to determine the competitive level of programs and any change made will continue to fail because the foundation is rotting at the seams

Agreed. SSAA does not look at population for the Atlantic League. 4 of the 5 largest schools didn't make it out of the 1st round. #9 vs #14 in enrollment out of 20 play for the State Championship this weekend. #10 and #15 made the semifinals 

[Dr. D]

It was interesting to watch the last FHSAA Board of Directors’ meeting and hear the Executive Director say that he would like to adopt some type of competitive equity model, if only the coaches would agree. 

He specifically referenced the California model (which I think has some merit), where playoff brackets are based solely on end-of-regular season rankings.  For example, the highest ranked 16 teams in the rankings are placed in the Open Division.  The next 64 highest ranked teams (#17-80) are placed in Class 1, then the next 64 (#81-144) are placed in Class 2, and so on.  School enrollment doesn’t matter, records in previous years don’t matter, the number of transfers doesn’t matter; the only thing that matters is how teams performed in that particular year so that teams are grouped with comparable teams for the playoffs.

Again, many possible ways to get there, and no system is perfect.  But my question is why wouldn’t the majority of coaches be in favor of a competitive equity model of some kind?  My suspicion is either the coaches don’t see the big picture, or the FHSAA Football Advisory Committee is not representing the interests of the coaches, or the FHSAA Board of Directors has no interest in changing the status quo, regardless of input.    

[SoftballGuy]

4 hours ago, Dr. D said:

It was interesting to watch the last FHSAA Board of Directors’ meeting and hear the Executive Director say that he would like to adopt some type of competitive equity model, if only the coaches would agree. 

He specifically referenced the California model (which I think has some merit), where playoff brackets are based solely on end-of-regular season rankings.  For example, the highest ranked 16 teams in the rankings are placed in the Open Division.  The next 64 highest ranked teams (#17-80) are placed in Class 1, then the next 64 (#81-144) are placed in Class 2, and so on.  School enrollment doesn’t matter, records in previous years don’t matter, the number of transfers doesn’t matter; the only thing that matters is how teams performed in that particular year so that teams are grouped with comparable teams for the playoffs.

Again, many possible ways to get there, and no system is perfect.  But my question is why wouldn’t the majority of coaches be in favor of a competitive equity model of some kind?  My suspicion is either the coaches don’t see the big picture, or the FHSAA Football Advisory Committee is not representing the interests of the coaches, or the FHSAA Board of Directors has no interest in changing the status quo, regardless of input.    

They could have used metro suburban as a path towards that and went backwards 

And you hit the nail on the head with this one. 

the FHSAA Board of Directors has no interest in changing the status quo, regardless of input.   

[Perspective]

14 hours ago, Dr. D said:

It was interesting to watch the last FHSAA Board of Directors’ meeting and hear the Executive Director say that he would like to adopt some type of competitive equity model, if only the coaches would agree. 

  

Serious question:  why do the coaches need to agree?  Last time I checked, the FHSAA Board of Directors made the rules and the coaches are expected to follow them.  To my knowledge, the coaches don't get a vote.  That would be like a congressman saying "Yeah, I'd be in favor of that proposal if only all the 8 and 9 year olds in my district would agree."

[Perspective]

Just now, Perspective said:

Serious question:  why do the coaches need to agree?  Last time I checked, the FHSAA Board of Directors made the rules and the coaches are expected to follow them.  To my knowledge, the coaches don't get a vote.  That would be like a congressman saying "Yeah, I'd be in favor of that proposal if only all the 8 and 9 year olds in my district would agree."

And oh, by the way, there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that you're going to be able to get all of the coaches in Florida to agree on anything . . . except maybe higher pay.  

[SoftballGuy]

9 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Serious question:  why do the coaches need to agree?  Last time I checked, the FHSAA Board of Directors made the rules and the coaches are expected to follow them.  To my knowledge, the coaches don't get a vote.  That would be like a congressman saying "Yeah, I'd be in favor of that proposal if only all the 8 and 9 year olds in my district would agree."

Because if the coaches are unhappy and in good standing with their athletic Directors they can get their team pulled from the fhsaa and then that's typically what creates the 2 and 3 team districts which destroys a regions structure 

[Perspective]

15 minutes ago, SoftballGuy said:

Because if the coaches are unhappy and in good standing with their athletic Directors they can get their team pulled from the fhsaa and then that's typically what creates the 2 and 3 team districts which destroys a regions structure 

OK, so let me make sure I've got this right . . . there are coaches out there that are so opposed to a "competitive equity model" that they would cozy up to their AD in an effort to convince the AD to pull their school from the FHSAA and there are AD's out there that would be willing to do that?!?  That's whack.  I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm just saying that's crazy.  

[SoftballGuy]

5 hours ago, Perspective said:

OK, so let me make sure I've got this right . . . there are coaches out there that are so opposed to a "competitive equity model" that they would cozy up to their AD in an effort to convince the AD to pull their school from the FHSAA and there are AD's out there that would be willing to do that?!?  That's whack.  I'm not saying that you're wrong; I'm just saying that's crazy.  

You also have some schools where the head football coach is also the AD so if they are unhappy they would have the power to do that