What is the difference between class 1A and Rural?

[PinellasFB]

No public schools made it past the second round in 1A.  It's completely unfair for a small public school to have to play in the same class as private schools.  This got me wondering why they couldn't drop to Rural class?  What's the difference/requirement for Rural classification?

[Nulli Secundus]

38 minutes ago, PinellasFB said:

No public schools made it past the second round in 1A.  It's completely unfair for a small public school to have to play in the same class as private schools.  This got me wondering why they couldn't drop to Rural class?  What's the difference/requirement for Rural classification?

You have single-handedly made an argument for performance based classes. 

[Dr. D]

16 hours ago, PinellasFB said:

No public schools made it past the second round in 1A.  It's completely unfair for a small public school to have to play in the same class as private schools.  This got me wondering why they couldn't drop to Rural class?  What's the difference/requirement for Rural classification?

To answer your question, FHSAA policies state that schools may be placed in the Rural classification if they are located in geographic areas as determined by the Rural Economic Development Initiative (REDI; Florida statute 288.0656), population density by zip code, and median family income by zip code.  The Rural classification is limited to the lowest 40 populated schools that meet these criteria and commit to the Rural classification in the sport of football.

Other states have wrestled with the public-private disparity.  In Tennessee, private schools are placed in separate classifications and playoff brackets from public schools.  In Georgia, public and private schools are placed in the same classifications, but private and public schools in the lowest 3 classifications are placed in separate playoff brackets. 

[JDHoss]

19 hours ago, Dr. D said:

To answer your question, FHSAA policies state that schools may be placed in the Rural classification if they are located in geographic areas as determined by the Rural Economic Development Initiative (REDI; Florida statute 288.0656), population density by zip code, and median family income by zip code.  The Rural classification is limited to the lowest 40 populated schools that meet these criteria and commit to the Rural classification in the sport of football.

 

Other states have wrestled with the public-private disparity.  In Tennessee, private schools are placed in separate classifications and playoff brackets from public schools.  In Georgia, public and private schools are placed in the same classifications, but private and public schools in the lowest 3 classifications are placed in separate playoff brackets. 

Virginia separates them as well, except for Liberty (University) Christian, who for whatever reason(s), decided they wanted to play in the public division and with their battalion of lawyers, told the VHSL they would sue them into Bolivia/oblivion if they opposed it. The Junior Pool Boys program has dominated Class AAA since they were admitted. 

[Dr. D]

With the exodus of smaller schools to the SSAA, as well as the expansion of the Rural classification, 1A has essentially become a private school classification (FAMU High is the only public school that I can identify in 1A).  The smaller public schools will definitely face an uphill battle in the new 2A.  The pendulum starts to swing back to the public schools in the new 3A.  Pending any adjustments in the appeal period.  

[nolebull813]

On 12/10/2025 at 8:26 AM, JDHoss said:

Virginia separates them as well, except for Liberty (University) Christian, who for whatever reason(s), decided they wanted to play in the public division and with their battalion of lawyers, told the VHSL they would sue them into Bolivia/oblivion if they opposed it. The Junior Pool Boys program has dominated Class AAA since they were admitted. 

Same for Texas: they separate the privates into the TAPPS league, but for whatever reason, Dallas Jesuit and Houston Jesuit participate in the UIL, (the main state organization)

So there are 1,200 plus public schools and 2 private schools. But neither has ever won a title or even sniffed it

[gatorman-uf]

On 12/10/2025 at 11:54 AM, Dr. D said:

With the exodus of smaller schools to the SSAA, as well as the expansion of the Rural classification, 1A has essentially become a private school classification (FAMU High is the only public school that I can identify in 1A).  The smaller public schools will definitely face an uphill battle in the new 2A.  The pendulum starts to swing back to the public schools in the new 3A.  Pending any adjustments in the appeal period.  

The fact that the FHSAA doesn't even consider a system based on rankings (and not school size) is beyond me. I have been proposing a promotion/relegation system for over 10 years, because the problems are plain enough.

 

What strikes me as odd with the movement of teams out of the FHSAA is that it isn't just bad small publics, but rural schools as well. The rural schools that don't play Bolles or Chaminade-Madonna. Rural schools that are running from playing Hawthorne, Madison County, and Blountstown. 

[Hwy17]

8 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

The fact that the FHSAA doesn't even consider a system based on rankings (and not school size) is beyond me. I have been proposing a promotion/relegation system for over 10 years, because the problems are plain enough.

 

What strikes me as odd with the movement of teams out of the FHSAA is that it isn't just bad small publics, but rural schools as well. The rural schools that don't play Bolles or Chaminade-Madonna. Rural schools that are running from playing Hawthorne, Madison County, and Blountstown. 

 

On 12/8/2025 at 9:06 PM, Nulli Secundus said:

You have single-handedly made an argument for performance based classes. 

So I've pondered on the idea of a promotion/relegation system for a while.  It has its merits.  However,  what criteria is going to get used to determine who moves up and who moves down?  Many of us go through cycles where we're up for a couple of years then back down.  If you don't follow a particular program,  it's hard to know what they're going to have from one season to the next.  Also the option of going independent or playing a couple of easier games is something you can do now. Never have I, or anyone I speak to,  says because we or another team had a bad year they should drop a class. Neither should we move up a class just because we made a playoff run.

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

 

So I've pondered on the idea of a promotion/relegation system for a while.  It has its merits.  However,  what criteria is going to get used to determine who moves up and who moves down?  Many of us go through cycles where we're up for a couple of years then back down.  If you don't follow a particular program,  it's hard to know what they're going to have from one season to the next.  Also the option of going independent or playing a couple of easier games is something you can do now. Never have I, or anyone I speak to,  says because we or another team had a bad year they should drop a class. Neither should we move up a class just because we made a playoff run.

The easiest answer is to use a four-year rolling average of teams from the MaxPreps rankings (power points). That way, if a team in 3A has one excellent year, but three below-average years, they might move up, but they probably won't. If that same team is in the regional finals every year, despite not winning a state title, that consistency means they are ready to move up in my opinion. 

You are moving about 10% up and down, which means you have to be elite in your classification or at the bottom of your classification.  Classes would become smaller at the top of the pyramid and larger at the bottom. Thus, to play with the elite teams, it is hard to get there.  32-32-64-64-128-128. The 128 team classifications would allow many of these SSIAA schools to face similar type programs. If a team is "recruiting" then their success will force them to move up and away from other teams who don't do that. 

[Hwy17]

20 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

The easiest answer is to use a four-year rolling average of teams from the MaxPreps rankings (power points). That way, if a team in 3A has one excellent year, but three below-average years, they might move up, but they probably won't. If that same team is in the regional finals every year, despite not winning a state title, that consistency means they are ready to move up in my opinion. 

You are moving about 10% up and down, which means you have to be elite in your classification or at the bottom of your classification.  Classes would become smaller at the top of the pyramid and larger at the bottom. Thus, to play with the elite teams, it is hard to get there.  32-32-64-64-128-128. The 128 team classifications would allow many of these SSIAA schools to face similar type programs. If a team is "recruiting" then their success will force them to move up and away from other teams who don't do that. 

Sounds great but what would end up happening is that good but not elite program gets punished for winning and likewise,  as soon as a larger school gets moved down and wins, the others will cry foul.

[gatorman-uf]

3 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Sounds great but what would end up happening is that good but not elite program gets punished for winning and likewise,  as soon as a larger school gets moved down and wins, the others will cry foul.

Take the 32 very best teams in Florida over the past four years, teams that are state champions or regional champions of this type. Those are the teams in 6A. Teams that were consistently 2nd or 3rd round teams; they become your 5A teams. Every two years, we would promote/relegate in football. You would take the 4 worst teams in 6A and send them down (teams 28-32), and we would move up the 4 very best teams from 5A or teams (33-36). So I am not sure how good teams would be promoted over elite teams. We are talking the 4 worst out of 32, and the 4 best of 32. So we aren't talking one good season will promote you up. 

And yes, large schools could move all the way down to 1A, but they are moving down to 1A because they aren't good. Take one of the worst 4A teams in the state (Jacksonville Englewood). They lost to Paxon, Wolfson, and Stanton. Three solely IB schools. Englewood isn't good. Do you really think the average 1A school would be scared to play them because they are a 4A or complain because they had to play them?

Remember the purpose of promotion and relegation is get good schools playing good schools and bad schools playing bad schools. As teams diminish and rise, allowing them to face similar types of teams. 

[Hwy17]

On 12/13/2025 at 2:17 PM, gatorman-uf said:

Take the 32 very best teams in Florida over the past four years, teams that are state champions or regional champions of this type. Those are the teams in 6A. Teams that were consistently 2nd or 3rd round teams; they become your 5A teams. Every two years, we would promote/relegate in football. You would take the 4 worst teams in 6A and send them down (teams 28-32), and we would move up the 4 very best teams from 5A or teams (33-36). So I am not sure how good teams would be promoted over elite teams. We are talking the 4 worst out of 32, and the 4 best of 32. So we aren't talking one good season will promote you up. 

And yes, large schools could move all the way down to 1A, but they are moving down to 1A because they aren't good. Take one of the worst 4A teams in the state (Jacksonville Englewood). They lost to Paxon, Wolfson, and Stanton. Three solely IB schools. Englewood isn't good. Do you really think the average 1A school would be scared to play them because they are a 4A or complain because they had to play them?

Remember the purpose of promotion and relegation is get good schools playing good schools and bad schools playing bad schools. As teams diminish and rise, allowing them to face similar types of teams. 

Looking around at some programs I know of who typically are considered bad, I notice a few had winning seasons this year and/or last year, and even made the playoffs.  They didn't need to be relegated down to find success.  They got better on their on. 

Also,  you and I both know FHSAA ability to take a system and make it worse. There's some really good programs who aren't quite "elite ". Consistent winning seasons and playoff appearances but don't  quite win a championship.  Those would be punished under a system that moves them up. 

[gatorman-uf]

On 12/15/2025 at 9:19 AM, Hwy17 said:

Looking around at some programs I know of who typically are considered bad, I notice a few had winning seasons this year and/or last year, and even made the playoffs.  They didn't need to be relegated down to find success.  They got better on their on. 

Also,  you and I both know FHSAA ability to take a system and make it worse. There's some really good programs who aren't quite "elite ". Consistent winning seasons and playoff appearances but don't  quite win a championship.  Those would be punished under a system that moves them up. 

You are right, teams can get better (coaching, graduation, and 8th graders becoming 9th graders). I am not saying teams shouldn't try to get better, I just think the system doesn't allow incremental growth without gaming the system. Some coaches realize that they need to schedule down, so they do. I just want the FHSAA to help coaches to do that.

They might be winners, but are they winners against similar competition? For years, there would be a team from the Pasco County area that would go 9-1 and make the regional finals only to be running clocked when they faced a team from way outside their area. They were winners, but not against quality competition.

But again, teams that are consistently regional finalists would be playing against teams that are also consistently regional finalists. That would be a better comparison for their level than winning against a bunch of teams that are not competitive.