To the Message Board Posters who support Vero Beach.

[Jambun82]

I have a question for the posters to the Message Board who support the Vero Beach Indians please. I would ask what you thought of the coaching performance, especially of the Head Coach, in tonight's 7A State Title loss to Lake Mary? Thank you.  Anyone else is welcome to answer as well. 

[Ray Icaza]

Have no partiality to either team and do think Coach J has done an excellent job at Vero over the years, but he may have over thunk the final couple of minutes of that game.  He has a RB that had gained almost 250 yards for the game and instead of giving it to him 3 straight times to pick up that final first down and kill the clock, everyone was able to witness what his plan was for that final possession.  Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but that did leave me scratching my head.  Hats off to Lake Mary for believing till the bitter end.  Miracles are real. 

[Trelle]

21 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Have no partiality to either team and do think Coach J has done an excellent job at Vero over the years, but he may have over thunk the final couple of minutes of that game.  He has a RB that had gained almost 250 yards for the game and instead of giving it to him 3 straight times to pick up that final first down and kill the clock, everyone was able to witness what his plan was for that final possession.  Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but that did leave me scratching my head.  Hats off to Lake Mary for believing till the bitter end.  Miracles are real. 

Pretty much what you said Ray… no idea what he was thinking, but he did get us that far. Don’t want to run him out of town or anything like that, but I do feel poor play calling cost us the game.

[Drogo]

6 minutes ago, Trelle said:

Pretty much what you said Ray… no idea what he was thinking, but he did get us that far. Don’t want to run him out of town or anything like that, but I do feel poor play calling cost us the game.

I was at the game, old time Vero people are not happy, it took Vero 44 years to get back here, and to lose a game like that, might have cost him his job

[Trelle]

17 minutes ago, Drogo said:

I was at the game, old time Vero people are not happy, it took Vero 44 years to get back here, and to lose a game like that, might have cost him his job

I’m trying to not let my emotions get the best of me lol. Yea, right now if he were let go it wouldn’t bother me either, the amount of talent/athletes we have is a big reason we got that far not just coaching and I do think other coaches may be able to utilize them better. Sadly we did have a lot of seniors that really made this team special that won’t be here next year. My facebook feed is also blown up with fire him/worst coaching ever comments all over the place. You’d think he would have learned from how FP Central lost earlier in the playoffs with there kneeling that cost them. Proud of the boys regardless, thy gave it there all.

[KeemD321]

56 minutes ago, Ray Icaza said:

Have no partiality to either team and do think Coach J has done an excellent job at Vero over the years, but he may have over thunk the final couple of minutes of that game.  He has a RB that had gained almost 250 yards for the game and instead of giving it to him 3 straight times to pick up that final first down and kill the clock, everyone was able to witness what his plan was for that final possession.  Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but that did leave me scratching my head.  Hats off to Lake Mary for believing till the bitter end.  Miracles are real. 

All facts. I was in awe. Rb averaged 10+ yards per carry. Didn't take enough time off the clock with the kneels. I get taking the  safety but then again I don't. The defense was playing good enough to punt it and try to flip the field. Sit back and play prevent, forcing a deeper throw and them needing a TD and conversion to tie. Instead of what transpired. The commentators were even foreshadowing everything that could go wrong, the confusion with the decisions and boy did it all go wrong. I feel for those Vero players. This was the year to do it. The RB, EJ, and #7 definitely were my co-players of the game for Vero 

[Jambun82]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

Have no partiality to either team and do think Coach J has done an excellent job at Vero over the years, but he may have over thunk the final couple of minutes of that game.  He has a RB that had gained almost 250 yards for the game and instead of giving it to him 3 straight times to pick up that final first down and kill the clock, everyone was able to witness what his plan was for that final possession.  Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but that did leave me scratching my head.  Hats off to Lake Mary for believing till the bitter end.  Miracles are real. 

What about the rest of the game leading up to the end of the fourth quarter?

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, Trelle said:

Pretty much what you said Ray… no idea what he was thinking, but he did get us that far. Don’t want to run him out of town or anything like that, but I do feel poor play calling cost us the game.

Anything else leading up to the end of the fourth quarter?

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I was at the game, old time Vero people are not happy, it took Vero 44 years to get back here, and to lose a game like that, might have cost him his job

How do you feel about the coaching throughout the game?

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, KeemD321 said:

All facts. I was in awe. Rb averaged 10+ yards per carry. Didn't take enough time off the clock with the kneels. I get taking the  safety but then again I don't. The defense was playing good enough to punt it and try to flip the field. Sit back and play prevent, forcing a deeper throw and them needing a TD and conversion to tie. Instead of what transpired. The commentators were even foreshadowing everything that could go wrong, the confusion with the decisions and boy did it all go wrong. I feel for those Vero players. This was the year to do it. The RB, EJ, and #7 definitely were my co-players of the game for Vero 

What about the coaching throughout the game leading up to the end of the fourth quarter? Also, NO FACES! Just kidding. make all the "faces" that you want to! 

[KeemD321]

5 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

What about the coaching throughout the game leading up to the end of the fourth quarter? Also, NO FACES! Just kidding. make all the "faces" that you want to! 

Honestly first half was flawless by Vero. Beginning of 2nd half they could've milked the clock more but still wasn't bad. Seemed like they had some key players out on the defensive side but they came back middle of the 4th. Stepped up and then the coaching blunder at the end 

[i4football]

The last game put the finishing touches to a number of games who's ending left me me saying WTF just happen!  Compound that with game changing officiating, coaching decisions that evening Ray Charles could see made no good sense....... something strange was going on in fort lauderdale....just a off the cuff reaction ???? 

[LongtimeVero]

What a night. I was replaying a loy of stuff while trying to get at least 4 hours sleep. Sadly, two missed kicks, Grubbs knee being down on one of their drives, and a prevent offense all comes down to a betted away pass, where maybe he should have caught it. I cant blame refs....unless we were Cocoa play St Thomas Aquinas, but they did miss alot. Hats off to Lake Mary, who made one more play than we did..... Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is never fun....

[Ray Icaza]

9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

What about the rest of the game leading up to the end of the fourth quarter?

His game plan up until the end seemed to be working for them.  Offensively, it seemed they could run at will so I think he could have done more of that, especially when using EJ White at QB as that would have limited LM time of possession, total plays they could hurt you with.  When we played them this year, that was the strategy to keep their offense off the field so they could have managed that a bit better.  Defensively, daring them to run while trying to take away the pass also seemed to be effective for most of the game as it led to 3 INT's.  Special team punting unit wasn't instilling a lot of confidence throughout the game and with the rain it probably played into his thinking.  Just my two cents. 

[JDHoss]

That's as bad of a coaching meltdown as I've seen in high school....maybe any level of football. I texted @MarkECannon even before the roof caved in on Vero and said that maybe the rain was short circuiting Jankowski's brain out. He channeled his inner Mike Watkins (FPC coach) by not understanding that there was too much time left to be taking three quick knees for chunk losses when your opponent has two timeouts left. Unlike Mike Watkins, who at least understood he needed to punt the football away, Jankowski compounded his poor decision on the three quick kneel downs by forfeiting two points of his EIGHT POINT LEAD by having White run out of the end zone. That call can actually work under certain circumstances, but this wasn't one of them.  

What would have been the correct sequence? Well....

* Run Hillsman (who had 238 yards on the night) three times, telling him above all to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* Run Hillsman twice, then have Monds run on a keeper after faking a third run to Hillsman, and stressing to Monds  to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* If that doesn't pick up a first down, you PUNT the football away. 

* You do those things because even if the worst case scenario happens like a scoop and score if you fumble or the punt is blocked and they score or recover a fumble and score in one play or they return the punt for a TD....you still have an EIGHT POINT LEAD, and they will STILL have to convert a 2 point PAT just to get the game to OVERTIME. Vero had what, close to 500 yards of offense on the night? I'd like their chances in OT. When Jankowski gave up two points of that 8 point lead, it automatically put Vero in danger. Yeah, it took a Hail Mary and a sheer miracle by the LM player to hand that off, but they were going to need a miracle play regardless. Did you want them to have one shot when you had an EIGHT POINT LEAD, or when you have a SIX POINT LEAD? 

As for the rest of the game, I really had no problem with the coaching. Vero had multiple explosive plays on offense that caused their defense to be on the field a lot more than normal, but most people find that to be an acceptable tradeoff. They also had some guys injured down the stretch, but that's just part of the game. 

In summary, this loss was 100% on Jankowski, and while I haven't seen any quotes from him yet, I hope he accepts the responsibility for that. He's a good coach with a lot of experience, but there is no way to polish up that final sequence. 

[MarkECannon]

I’ve spoken to, texted with and read on message boards stating the same thing.  Practically everyone is in disbelief about Vero’s coaching decisions late in the 4th quarter.  I attended Vero’s semifinal and state final games. IMO,  Vero’s coaching made crucial misjudgments late in both games.

The Palmetto game should have been over early in the 4th quarter but Vero must have decided to pretty much shut down the high powered offense that led to a 2 TD lead.  At that point Palmetto had no answer for what Vero was doing.  Then Vero played right back into Palmetto’s style of play resulting in 2 OT’s with Vero fortunately pulling out the 1 point victory.

 Against Lake Mary I call into question sending the field goal kicker out to attempt an approximately 35 yarder in the rain.  The poor kid hooked it just like he did against Norland in the kickoff classic and Palmetto in the semifinal.  Yes, it was 4th and about 10 against Lake Mary but you have very talented receivers going against a tired and smaller secondary.  That is the main strong matchup Vero had in the game.  Of course the Vero final debacle was the mismanagement in the final minutes.  
 

Vero had a really talented team that came away one play short of and the 7A title and a perfect season.  You have to give a lot of credit to the Vero coaching staff for achieving this.

* Come to think of it, Vero had a good lead in the Norland kickoff classic game.  Norland came back to tie it leading to the missed field goal mentioned above.  
So I actually witnessed this pattern 3 times.

[KeemD321]

1 hour ago, Ray Icaza said:

His game plan up until the end seemed to be working for them.  Offensively, it seemed they could run at will so I think he could have done more of that, especially when using EJ White at QB as that would have limited LM time of possession, total plays they could hurt you with.  When we played them this year, that was the strategy to keep their offense off the field so they could have managed that a bit better.  Defensively, daring them to run while trying to take away the pass also seemed to be effective for most of the game as it led to 3 INT's.  Special team punting unit wasn't instilling a lot of confidence throughout the game and with the rain it probably played into his thinking.  Just my two cents. 

Their passing defense tapered off a lil due to their CB Crutchfield being out majority of the 2nd half till the middle of the 4th. Which is one of the reasons why LM started getting deep passes off. Once he came back that's when the pass defense tightened down. He got all 3 interceptions for Vero

[Jambun82]

3 hours ago, LongtimeVero said:

What a night. I was replaying a loy of stuff while trying to get at least 4 hours sleep. Sadly, two missed kicks, Grubbs knee being down on one of their drives, and a prevent offense all comes down to a betted away pass, where maybe he should have caught it. I cant blame refs....unless we were Cocoa play St Thomas Aquinas, but they did miss alot. Hats off to Lake Mary, who made one more play than we did..... Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is never fun....

What about all of the procedural penalties throughout the game on Vero Beach? Would you consider that a coaching issue?

[Jambun82]

12 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

Honestly first half was flawless by Vero. Beginning of 2nd half they could've milked the clock more but still wasn't bad. Seemed like they had some key players out on the defensive side but they came back middle of the 4th. Stepped up and then the coaching blunder at the end 

Flawless first half? 

[Jambun82]

9 hours ago, i4football said:

The last game put the finishing touches to a number of games who's ending left me me saying WTF just happen!  Compound that with game changing officiating, coaching decisions that evening Ray Charles could see made no good sense....... something strange was going on in fort lauderdale....just a off the cuff reaction ???? 

What game changing officiating? 

[Jambun82]

2 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

His game plan up until the end seemed to be working for them.  Offensively, it seemed they could run at will so I think he could have done more of that, especially when using EJ White at QB as that would have limited LM time of possession, total plays they could hurt you with.  When we played them this year, that was the strategy to keep their offense off the field so they could have managed that a bit better.  Defensively, daring them to run while trying to take away the pass also seemed to be effective for most of the game as it led to 3 INT's.  Special team punting unit wasn't instilling a lot of confidence throughout the game and with the rain it probably played into his thinking.  Just my two cents. 

What about all of the procedural penalties throughout the game for Vero Beach? 

[Jambun82]

2 hours ago, JDHoss said:

That's as bad of a coaching meltdown as I've seen in high school....maybe any level of football. I texted @MarkECannon even before the roof caved in on Vero and said that maybe the rain was short circuiting Jankowski's brain out. He channeled his inner Mike Watkins (FPC coach) by not understanding that there was too much time left to be taking three quick knees for chunk losses when your opponent has two timeouts left. Unlike Mike Watkins, who at least understood he needed to punt the football away, Jankowski compounded his poor decision on the three quick kneel downs by forfeiting two points of his EIGHT POINT LEAD by having White run out of the end zone. That call can actually work under certain circumstances, but this wasn't one of them.  

 

 

 

What would have been the correct sequence? Well....

 

 

 

* Run Hillsman (who had 238 yards on the night) three times, telling him above all to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* Run Hillsman twice, then have Monds run on a keeper after faking a third run to Hillsman, and stressing to Monds  to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* If that doesn't pick up a first down, you PUNT the football away. 

* You do those things because even if the worst case scenario happens like a scoop and score if you fumble or the punt is blocked and they score or recover a fumble and score in one play or they return the punt for a TD....you still have an EIGHT POINT LEAD, and they will STILL have to convert a 2 point PAT just to get the game to OVERTIME. Vero had what, close to 500 yards of offense on the night? I'd like their chances in OT. When Jankowski gave up two points of that 8 point lead, it automatically put Vero in danger. Yeah, it took a Hail Mary and a sheer miracle by the LM player to hand that off, but they were going to need a miracle play regardless. Did you want them to have one shot when you had an EIGHT POINT LEAD, or when you have a SIX POINT LEAD? 

As for the rest of the game, I really had no problem with the coaching. Vero had multiple explosive plays on offense that caused their defense to be on the field a lot more than normal, but most people find that to be an acceptable tradeoff. They also had some guys injured down the stretch, but that's just part of the game. 

In summary, this loss was 100% on Jankowski, and while I haven't seen any quotes from him yet, I hope he accepts the responsibility for that. He's a good coach with a lot of experience, but there is no way to polish up that final sequence. 

What about all of the procedural penalties throughout the game for Vero Beach? 

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, MarkECannon said:

I’ve spoken to, texted with and read on message boards stating the same thing.  Practically everyone is in disbelief about Vero’s coaching decisions late in the 4th quarter.  I attended Vero’s semifinal and state final games. IMO,  Vero’s coaching made crucial misjudgments late in both games.

The Palmetto game should have been over early in the 4th quarter but Vero must have decided to pretty much shut down the high powered offense that led to a 2 TD lead.  At that point Palmetto had no answer for what Vero was doing.  Then Vero played right back into Palmetto’s style of play resulting in 2 OT’s with Vero fortunately pulling out the 1 point victory.

 Against Lake Mary I call into question sending the field goal kicker out to attempt an approximately 35 yarder in the rain.  The poor kid hooked it just like he did against Norland in the kickoff classic and Palmetto in the semifinal.  Yes, it was 4th and about 10 against Lake Mary but you have very talented receivers going against a tired and smaller secondary.  That is the main strong matchup Vero had in the game.  Of course the Vero final debacle was the mismanagement in the final minutes.  
 

Vero had a really talented team that came away one play short of and the 7A title and a perfect season.  You have to give a lot of credit to the Vero coaching staff for achieving this.

* Come to think of it, Vero had a good lead in the Norland kickoff classic game.  Norland came back to tie it leading to the missed field goal mentioned above.  
So I actually witnessed this pattern 3 times.

From what you are saying, it sounds as if this has been a problem/issue for Vero Beach throughout the season.  

[KeemD321]

12 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

What about all of the procedural penalties throughout the game on Vero Beach? Would you consider that a coaching issue?

The back to back to back penalties on the punt?

[KeemD321]

11 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Flawless first half? 

For the most part as far as playcalling. They just got overly conservative in the 2nd half offensively