To the Message Board Posters who support Vero Beach.

[KeemD321]

19 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

What are you talking about? Are you claiming that the game officials made up the penalties? 

Never said that or implied it. Just stating from the broadcast. The angle and view that was being shown there was no clear cut infraction on the following 2 punt attempts. And what made it more confusing was that the commentators basically implied the exact same logic

[Ray Icaza]

6 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Does that say anything about coaching to you? 

It might be an indicator, but you gotta remember you are dealing with mostly 16-17 year olds and I don't hold them to as high a standard as a full-grown adult officiating that screws up. 

[Jambun82]

3 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

It might be an indicator, but you gotta remember you are dealing with mostly 16-17 year olds and I don't hold them to as high a standard as a full-grown adult officiating that screws up. 

What about the 16-17 year old players on the teams that did not get procedural penalties in the 15th game of the season? Which full-grown adult officiating crew are you referring to who "screwed up"? 

[Jambun82]

5 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

Never said that or implied it. Just stating from the broadcast. The angle and view that was being shown there was no clear cut infraction on the following 2 punt attempts. And what made it more confusing was that the commentators basically implied the exact same logic

Austin Lyon is a good commentator and a good man. He admits when he gets something wrong, and is willing to listen to get better. Jeff Carlson is a complete hack who not only doesn't know what he is talking about, he actually thinks he is superior to other people who know a lot more than him. The stream broadcast, while very good, does not always show the exact angle that would show a foul such as that being committed. 

[Ray Icaza]

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

What about the 16-17 year old players on the teams that did not get procedural penalties in the 15th game of the season? Which full-grown adult officiating crew are you referring to who "screwed up"? 

I am speaking in general terms, not on a specific incident or game.  Does your question about which official imply that NO official in their 15th game screws up?

[Trelle]

Jambun someone posted this on Facebook and curious if this is true since the FHSAA rules are based off of NFHS, although I do know that some do differ. What’s your take, should that have been a dead ball penalty right there? 
 

“NFHS Football Rule 9-1-3

Assisting the Runner

"No player shall assist the runner by grasping, pulling, pushing or lifting him to advance."

Approved Ruling / Interpretation

• A teammate taking or stripping the ball from a runner in order to advance it is considered assisting the runner.
• The act of grasping the ball carrier or the ball itself to gain yardage is illegal unless it is a legal handoff or backward pitch initiated by the runner.

Penalty (Rule 9-1-3)

• 5 yards
• Spot foul
• Ball becomes dead immediately when the illegal assistance 

The player who took the ball from the receiver approached him from the front and was never behind them during the exchange. The ball was handed to him in front him and not a backwards lateral. It states that a handoff in front of the line of scrimmage applies to this and is considered illegal. As stated in just curious about this if the play should have been called dead right there. Win/loose state championship or kick off classic I’d just like to get your take on this one particular play compared to what the rules would be. The screenshot is at the moment the players exchanged the ball. In front of the original recover and beyond the line of scrimmage. Thank you.

 

Lake Mary Hail Mary Exchange

[LongtimeVero]

Guys, thank you for all the varing opinions. Alot of you have been on this Earth a while, and seen alot of different teams play. Its never one play that loses a game. Kinda think some players thought the game was in hand. Had Vero not missed two kicks, you could have a different game. 44 years ago I watched the "lil rascals" win a championship againt PC Mosley. I hope Im wrong, but I dont think Ill see Vero back there again, before the Lord calls me home.

 Thanks for all the info and such through the last year.

 Recon Ill talk to you all in August. God bless you all!

[Jambun82]

10 hours ago, Ray Icaza said:

I am speaking in general terms, not on a specific incident or game.  Does your question about which official imply that NO official in their 15th game screws up?

All right. No, of course not. 

[Jambun82]

3 hours ago, Trelle said:

Jambun someone posted this on Facebook and curious if this is true since the FHSAA rules are based off of NFHS, although I do know that some do differ. What’s your take, should that have been a dead ball penalty right there? 
 

 

 

 

“NFHS Football Rule 9-1-3

 

 

 

Assisting the Runner

"No player shall assist the runner by grasping, pulling, pushing or lifting him to advance."

Approved Ruling / Interpretation

• A teammate taking or stripping the ball from a runner in order to advance it is considered assisting the runner.
• The act of grasping the ball carrier or the ball itself to gain yardage is illegal unless it is a legal handoff or backward pitch initiated by the runner.

Penalty (Rule 9-1-3)

• 5 yards
• Spot foul
• Ball becomes dead immediately when the illegal assistance 

The player who took the ball from the receiver approached him from the front and was never behind them during the exchange. The ball was handed to him in front him and not a backwards lateral. It states that a handoff in front of the line of scrimmage applies to this and is considered illegal. As stated in just curious about this if the play should have been called dead right there. Win/loose state championship or kick off classic I’d just like to get your take on this one particular play compared to what the rules would be. The screenshot is at the moment the players exchanged the ball. In front of the original recover and beyond the line of scrimmage. Thank you.

 

Lake Mary Hail Mary Exchange

I have seen that play many times, and in my view that was NOT a forward hand off. An illegal forward handing foul has to be a clear arm forward by the player handing the ball off, and I did not see that on that play. Also,  if it was a foul, that play would not have been blown dead immediately as no live-ball foul ends a play/down. The penalty for illegal forward handing is five yards and a loss of down. Loss of down is loss of the right to replay the down, so if there was a foul on that play, Lake Mary would have not received another play and since the game clock had reached 00:00, the game would have been over right then. 

[Jambun82]

49 minutes ago, LongtimeVero said:

Guys, thank you for all the varing opinions. Alot of you have been on this Earth a while, and seen alot of different teams play. Its never one play that loses a game. Kinda think some players thought the game was in hand. Had Vero not missed two kicks, you could have a different game. 44 years ago I watched the "lil rascals" win a championship againt PC Mosley. I hope Im wrong, but I dont think Ill see Vero back there again, before the Lord calls me home.

 Thanks for all the info and such through the last year.

 Recon Ill talk to you all in August. God bless you all!

LongtimeVero, do you have any thoughts/ideas about the performance of the coaching staff of Vero Beach in that game? 

[i4football]

On 12/14/2025 at 11:28 AM, JDHoss said:

That's as bad of a coaching meltdown as I've seen in high school....maybe any level of football. I texted @MarkECannon even before the roof caved in on Vero and said that maybe the rain was short circuiting Jankowski's brain out. He channeled his inner Mike Watkins (FPC coach) by not understanding that there was too much time left to be taking three quick knees for chunk losses when your opponent has two timeouts left. Unlike Mike Watkins, who at least understood he needed to punt the football away, Jankowski compounded his poor decision on the three quick kneel downs by forfeiting two points of his EIGHT POINT LEAD by having White run out of the end zone. That call can actually work under certain circumstances, but this wasn't one of them.  

 

 

 

 

What would have been the correct sequence? Well....

 

 

 

* Run Hillsman (who had 238 yards on the night) three times, telling him above all to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* Run Hillsman twice, then have Monds run on a keeper after faking a third run to Hillsman, and stressing to Monds  to secure the football and stay in bounds.

* If that doesn't pick up a first down, you PUNT the football away. 

* You do those things because even if the worst case scenario happens like a scoop and score if you fumble or the punt is blocked and they score or recover a fumble and score in one play or they return the punt for a TD....you still have an EIGHT POINT LEAD, and they will STILL have to convert a 2 point PAT just to get the game to OVERTIME. Vero had what, close to 500 yards of offense on the night? I'd like their chances in OT. When Jankowski gave up two points of that 8 point lead, it automatically put Vero in danger. Yeah, it took a Hail Mary and a sheer miracle by the LM player to hand that off, but they were going to need a miracle play regardless. Did you want them to have one shot when you had an EIGHT POINT LEAD, or when you have a SIX POINT LEAD? 

As for the rest of the game, I really had no problem with the coaching. Vero had multiple explosive plays on offense that caused their defense to be on the field a lot more than normal, but most people find that to be an acceptable tradeoff. They also had some guys injured down the stretch, but that's just part of the game. 

In summary, this loss was 100% on Jankowski, and while I haven't seen any quotes from him yet, I hope he accepts the responsibility for that. He's a good coach with a lot of experience, but there is no way to polish up that final sequence. 

After that Vero Beach-Lake Mary 7A title game finish that felt like somebody slipped a laxative in the football gods' coffee. I watched the replay about six times last night—partly for analysis, partly because I couldn't sleep after remembering my own clock-management disasters back when I was slinging Frostys at the Wendy's drive-thru on State Route 4 in Ohio. Kid pulls up at 1:58 a.m., orders four Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers and a large Coke, hands me a twenty, and I give him change for a fifty because I'm too busy staring at the cashier with the low-cut shirt. Cost me the drawer being short and a stern talking-to from the manager who looked like he ate nails for breakfast. Lesson learned: when the clock's ticking down, don't do something stupid that'll cost you the win... or twenty-three bucks.                             Anyway, this poor fan's rant hits like a hangover after a Buckeyes loss to Michigan (don't get me started—2006 still keeps me up some nights). Calls it the worst coaching meltdown he's seen at any level, says Jankowski's brain got short-circuited by the rain worse than when I tried to fix my ex-wife's toaster while standing in a puddle. Strong words. And honestly... he's got a point that don't need much polishing.The poster lays out the smart play: feed Hillsman—who'd already trucked for 238 yards like he was mad at the turf—three straight times. Tell him, "Son, hold that ball like it's the last beer at a tailgate and stay in bounds." If you need a first down, fake to him and let Monds keep it. Worst case, you punt, they get it inside their 30, still down eight, and even if they block it and house it (or fumble-six the other way), you're still ahead by two or six. They'd need the TD plus the deuce just to tie and go to overtime. And with Vero's offense humming for damn near 500 yards? I'd take my chances in free football over giving Lake Mary a "TD + extra point and we win" scenario.Instead, the safety flips the math, good return sets 'em up at the 42, and boom—Hail Mary, lateral, guy runs it in like he's got rockets in his cleats. Game over. Heartbreak city.Now look, I've seen coaches pull the intentional safety and it works—usually when you're nursing a skinny lead and just want to bleed the clock dead. But when you're up eight? That's like me back in my chasing-skirts days deciding to buy a woman flowers after she already said yes. Unnecessary risk, pal.Credit where due: Jankowski's a hell of a coach, built Vero into a machine, and the rest of the game plan was solid. Explosive plays happen, defense gets gassed, injuries pile up—that's football, not malpractice. But that last sequence? Yeah, that's gonna be on the film-room blooper reel for a long time. Hope he owns it like a man, because trying to spin that one would be harder than explaining to my old Wendy's manager why the drawer was short again the next weekend.Lake Mary earned it with that miracle—first title, sweet revenge for last year. Vero folks, chin up. Y'all were 14-0 getting there and you'll reload. Just maybe next time... run the damn ball three times and punt.Alright, I'm gonna go pour a scotch and pretend 2006 never happened. Y'all behave

[LongtimeVero]

10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

LongtimeVero, do you have any thoughts/ideas about the performance of the coaching staff of Vero Beach in that game? 

I saw your post earlier, and had to thunk on it a tad. Against Palmetto we are up by 14 and on the 50 yard line.We had just recovered a fumble.Time to run and run the clock out...No, we run a double reverse and loose 15 yards.. Once again failed to put a team away. I like Coach J, but he is not a championship style coach. This one sticks in my craw a tad. Watched Billy Graham crusade repeats on the long drive home, to seek forgiveness for some of my dadgum language. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas!

 

[Drogo]

38 minutes ago, LongtimeVero said:

I saw your post earlier, and had to thunk on it a tad. Against Palmetto we are up by 14 and on the 50 yard line.We had just recovered a fumble.Time to run and run the clock out...No, we run a double reverse and loose 15 yards.. Once again failed to put a team away. I like Coach J, but he is not a championship style coach. This one sticks in my craw a tad. Watched Billy Graham crusade repeats on the long drive home, to seek forgiveness for some of my dadgum language. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas!

 

I think that’s why this one hit Vero folks so bad, it was obviously for the state championship and it took Vero 44 years to get back there. Lenny is a great coach, has built Vero into what it is, but definitely had a pattern of panicking and over thinking things when the pressure gets the worst. 
 

Anyone who has watched Vero during these situations has seen it repeatedly - we’ve all commented on it to ourselves and each other, but Lenny is definitely a “my way or the highway” type of guy when it comes to the offense. His refusal to listen to his staff hurt them at the worst possible time in the worst possible way. Hopefully this experience will allow him to finally listen to reason when people are trying to talk him out of making it more difficult than it needs to be.  Was the coaching decisions the only thing that cost them the game? Absolutely not, but it most certainly led to Lake Mary having the opportunity to win. 

I’m with you though, teams like this don’t come around here but once in a lifetime, so I personally feel Vero squandered their best shot to win it all again. 

[Jambun82]

2 hours ago, LongtimeVero said:

I saw your post earlier, and had to thunk on it a tad. Against Palmetto we are up by 14 and on the 50 yard line.We had just recovered a fumble.Time to run and run the clock out...No, we run a double reverse and loose 15 yards.. Once again failed to put a team away. I like Coach J, but he is not a championship style coach. This one sticks in my craw a tad. Watched Billy Graham crusade repeats on the long drive home, to seek forgiveness for some of my dadgum language. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas!

 

Thank you for your point-of-view. Merry Christmas to you and your family as well. I had a chance to meet Billy Livings once, and that area has always been intriguing to me. During the NFHS Network broadcast, it was mentioned that Vero Beach, unlike many areas of Florida, has not experienced much rapid growth over the past several years, and there is still a heightened sense of community there. 

[Jambun82]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I think that’s why this one hit Vero folks so bad, it was obviously for the state championship and it took Vero 44 years to get back there. Lenny is a great coach, has built Vero into what it is, but definitely had a pattern of panicking and over thinking things when the pressure gets the worst. 
 

Anyone who has watched Vero during these situations has seen it repeatedly - we’ve all commented on it to ourselves and each other, but Lenny is definitely a “my way or the highway” type of guy when it comes to the offense. His refusal to listen to his staff hurt them at the worst possible time in the worst possible way. Hopefully this experience will allow him to finally listen to reason when people are trying to talk him out of making it more difficult than it needs to be.  Was the coaching decisions the only thing that cost them the game? Absolutely not, but it most certainly led to Lake Mary having the opportunity to win. 

I’m with you though, teams like this don’t come around here but once in a lifetime, so I personally feel Vero squandered their best shot to win it all again. 

Drogo, do you expect to see any ramifications or consequences from what happened in the game? 

[MarkECannon]

13 hours ago, i4football said:

I was slinging Frostys at the Wendy's drive-thru on State Route 4 in Ohio. Kid pulls up at 1:58 a.m., orders four Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers and a large Coke, hands me a twenty,

You’re teasing me aren’t you?  I love it.  BTW, I’ll take a sack full of Baconators and a large drum of Frosty.  Make sure it’s chocolate.  Funny thing is I’ve been to every state bordering but never been to Ohio.
 

[Drogo]

7 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Drogo, do you expect to see any ramifications or consequences from what happened in the game? 

I doubt it, after all Lenny has a stellar record and did get them there, initially emotions called for his dismissal, but most people calmed down and realized despite this crushing loss, it was a fantastic year and Vero was in a position few teams get to. 

[Jambun82]

4 hours ago, Drogo said:

I doubt it, after all Lenny has a stellar record and did get them there, initially emotions called for his dismissal, but most people calmed down and realized despite this crushing loss, it was a fantastic year and Vero was in a position few teams get to. 

Do you feel that the Indians are a well-coached team overall? Are some of the issues that popped up in the State Championship Game indicative of a trend, or was it an anomaly in that game? 

[JDHoss]

On 12/15/2025 at 1:19 PM, h8r said:

know where the easiest place on the planet is to coach from is?  the bleachers, the couch, the bar.  til you are put into that situation, nobody knows what kind of pressure it is.  

whos to say that they line up to punt and in the pouring rain a bad snap, a missed catch on the snap(punters are not the best of athletes), a shanked punt, a blocked punt.  

giving up the safety, ran 10 full seconds off the clock, 

the squib to me was the part that i questioned more than anything, kick it high and deep, in the rain, let a kid look up in the rain drops to get the ball.  squib set up a chance to give them a chance to hail mary it.

again, til youve worn the whistle, sat in the chair, made all the calls, told the contingent what to do and how, we will never ever know what that pressure is like.  Ive flipped so many burgers off my grill in my life, but have no idea what it would be like to work at mcdonalds during rush hour and theyn need 75 of them right now.  

im gonna venture to say that coach feels terrible and is questioning everything right now and probably will for rest of his life.  firing him isnt the answer, thats knee jerk reaction.  did everyone forget that they were 14-0 before the game? after a season of not having one of the top 2028 qbs in the nation out for almost all of it, 9 or 10 games?  to throw a wr in at qb and not lose stride, defintely isnt a coaching blunder...i bet he has hugged more players and told more people he was sorry for how he coached than anyone will ever do in their life.  

fire the coach is always the answer, but how about catch the hail mary not knock it down?  did anyone say cut the kid that missed it?  or we should fire the kids who got back to back false starts on punt?

coach defintely didnt play reps saturday night, but it solely lies on him.  but does he get any credit for any of the wins?  heck no.

hypocrites....

hater out.

The last 1:18 of that game rivals any coaching meltdown at any level that I've ever seen. You have an 8 point lead and the football at your own 40. Your opponent has two timeouts, meaning that those first two plays aren't going to milk much of the clock. You have a RB that has rushed for well over 200 yards on the night. Instead of giving the football to Hillsman while stressing ball security in staying inbounds, you snap the ball 7 yards deep to Monds three times and he takes a quick knee. You CAN'T be going that far backwards in that situation. Then you compound the yardage lost by having EJ White take a safety, giving up a worst case scenario of going to overtime, and putting your team in a worst case scenario of LOSING the football game in REGULATION. When Vero took over at the 40, the worst case scenario is that you fumble or are forced to punt and it's blocked. If that happens and LM scores, they still have to convert the 2 point PAT to get to overtime. In no universe should this game have been won in regulation by Lake Mary. Should Jankowitz be fire? No, of course not. His record is stellar and he seems to be a good man, but the last 1:18 of that meltdown can't be rationalized by anyone. 

[Drogo]

3 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Do you feel that the Indians are a well-coached team overall? Are some of the issues that popped up in the State Championship Game indicative of a trend, or was it an anomaly in that game? 

Vero is a well run team, but has had trouble with penalties, and the 18 they received in the championship certainly helped towards the loss. As far as the coaching miscues, yes, in my opinion, they were part of a trend of over thinking and panicked clock watching decision making.
Vero has tended to play not to lose instead of keeping their foot on the gas to win the game, it almost cost them in the semi’s and obviously everyone saw what happened in the final. 

[Jambun82]

5 hours ago, Drogo said:

Vero is a well run team, but has had trouble with penalties, and the 18 they received in the championship certainly helped towards the loss. As far as the coaching miscues, yes, in my opinion, they were part of a trend of over thinking and panicked clock watching decision making.
Vero has tended to play not to lose instead of keeping their foot on the gas to win the game, it almost cost them in the semi’s and obviously everyone saw what happened in the final. 

All right, thank you.