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DB4

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32 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

As far as I know this has been standard procedure at Trinity Catholic from the first day that the school had a football team in 2001. "The expectation is to be able to compete at that high level and to make lengthy playoff runs every year and compete for state championships.” This comes directly from the administration and has been the school's rallying cry from the get go. This may have been the school's first football coach Kerwin Bell's talk to his team to get his team motivated. And, I think it did because the Celtics have been successful for most of those 16 years. Thomas is not taking over a team that are novices. He is taking over a team that went through some major changes in 2015 and it carried over to 2016 and partially 2017. Although in 2017 the team was coalescing and defeating most of its opponents. When Joe Sturdivant arrived on the scene from IMG Academy, he totally changed the offensive and defensive formations. He also changed the team philosophy that had worked for many years. Those drastic changes may work with a college or NFL team. Not so much with a HS team. The AD, Bond, has been with the school a long time and has overseen some great teams in those years. I feel that you may be misinterpreting what he stated to a reporter as he was just reiterating a phrase that has been with OTC from the beginning. Pretty harmless I would think. 

Understand, where you are coming from, Proseteye.  How many programs in the state of Florida make lengthy playoff runs every year?  That expectation is unrealistic for about 99.8% of hs teams in the state.  

"Expectation" is a mighty big word today.  When one said it 40 years ago, it was taken in perspective.  Studies show kids today are harder on themselves than ever.  When they see their coach get sacked after 2 seasons, the word "expectation" hits home.   

They'll feel the overwhelming pressure to be a winner soon enough, in college.  And how about the hs coach who doesn't want to coach at a higher level because he doesn't want that level of stress?  We've ruined it for those guys.

Sorry I sound preachy at times, but high school is sacred ground for me...time for good men with a vocation to build character in younger men without the overwhelming pressure to win all the time.  Kids and coaches don't need politically motivated, ra ra public statements to motivate them.   

Those statements simply serve to set the coach/team up for failure in the public's eye when things don't work out as planned.  College and pro coaches are expected to make public promises and deliver.  There is no need for public promises at the high school level.  Always best to undercommit and overdeliver.  

 

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25 minutes ago, Sonofablitz said:

Thomas got his tail beat off in Alabama. Took over a dynasty team. First coach to not make the playoffs in over 30 years at that school. 1a and 3a are totally different animals.

Of course that is your opinion and you may well be right. May I ask what is your association with the school? The funny thing is that Sturdivant took a perennially playoff and championship team and did little to nothing over 3 seasons.  I like Joe and in fact we used to communicate quite often. However, he admitted that he could not get the team back to what it was before his arrival. I believe that this was one of the reasons he decided to leave. I don't really feel that 1A is that much different than 3A. You have Madison, Pahokee, Baker, Dixie County, and some others in 1A and they are every bit as good as any 3A team as far as fundamentals. We shall see how Coach Thomas does with the Celtic's program. You are correct that the team is losing a bunch of Seniors to graduation. But, those Seniors did not produce very well and, as such, the underclassmen will have to step up. We also don't know how many players from other schools will enroll at Trinity over the summer. The way I look at it the Celtics have nothing to lose.

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On 3/2/2018 at 12:19 PM, Mashburns said:

Explain how it was left in decent shape and what pieces you referring to? when the entire staff last season went to the paper talking about the community and admin.? the big kid they had at runningback last season is the brother of one of the coaches that was very negative about the program to the paper. At Glades central he was left with James Blackman QB at FSU, Q. Allen division one receiver, J. Way division one receiver, Vickers division one runningback, Trey Green division one defensive back, and etc Seminole Ridge has nothing compared to that and they will play a much tougher schedule but if you know something I don't I don't see how this was a good hire for a program looking to become more stable. 

I said the foundation and resources were left in good shape. Meaning they have a great weight program and financial assets. Also, that is not his real Brother. But, that Coaches beef wasn't about the actual program. There was a lot of back in forth between other Teachers and the football staff. Would that continue under Casko? Only time will tell. Like I said, he wasn't a good fit at GC for many reasons that I don't need to name. Now, I don;t know who else interviewed for the position, so I can't say he was the best guy for the job. Only time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Sonofablitz said:

Thomas got his tail beat off in Alabama. Took over a dynasty team. First coach to not make the playoffs in over 30 years at that school. 1a and 3a are totally different animals.

That surprises me because high school football in Alabama don't even come close to comparing to Florida 

 

Florida is almost a lock as a top 3 state every year and alabama is not even top 10 state 

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57 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

That surprises me because high school football in Alabama don't even come close to comparing to Florida 

 

Florida is almost a lock as a top 3 state every year and alabama is not even top 10 state 

For whatever reason, Alabama doesn't seem to get the press of Florida or Georgia hs football..at least that is my perception.  I am not sure why.  Only makes sense that a state with Univ of Alabama and Auburn in it would be loaded.  Unlike Florida, their public schools don't have as many private school powerhouses competing for talent. 

Everyone has heard of Hoover, but there are a number of other lesser know big school programs in Alabama that could likely give the better public school programs in FL all they could handle.   They don't seem to get love by the polls though.  I chuckle when I see some Midwest programs ranked in the top 25  and Alabama schools that could likely blow their doors off not in even the top 50.  The number of FL hs's showing up in the national polls may be a bit inflated simply because of the state's reputation.

 

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11 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

For whatever reason, Alabama doesn't seem to get the press of Florida or Georgia hs football..at least that is my perception.  I am not sure why.  Only makes sense that a state with Univ of Alabama and Auburn in it would be loaded.  Unlike Florida, their public schools don't have as many private school powerhouses competing for talent. 

Everyone has heard of Hoover, but there are a number of other lesser know big school programs in Alabama that could likely give the better public school programs in FL all they could handle.   They don't seem to get love by the polls though.  I chuckle when I see some Midwest programs ranked in the top 25  and Alabama schools that could likely blow their doors off not in even the top 50.  The number of FL hs's showing up in the national polls may be a bit inflated simply because of the state's reputation.

 

Hoover is solid but overall once you get past the few at the top it's not that deep a state 

 

I can only think of Maybe 3 or 4 who i would see as a top 25 team here in Florida 

 

You bring up those 2 schools in Alabama and auburn but both recruit a lot from other states (like Florida) so I don't know if I can say they fullfill the needs of those schools by the state itself 

 

Not that Alabama don't have talent in the state but it seems the state is limited in depth compared to power states

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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Hoover is solid but overall once you get past the few at the top it's not that deep a state 

 

I can only think of Maybe 3 or 4 who i would see as a top 25 team here in Florida 

 

You bring up those 2 schools in Alabama and auburn but both recruit a lot from other states (like Florida) so I don't know if I can say they fullfill the needs of those schools by the state itself 

 

Not that Alabama don't have talent in the state but it seems the state is limited in depth compared to power states

I would be careful about judging unless you have actually seen some of these teams play:).  

Back in 2014, a "no-name" team(at that time) from Alabama destroyed our 7A state semifinalist Niceville.  Next think you know that team is nationally ranked.  

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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Hoover is solid but overall once you get past the few at the top it's not that deep a state 

 

I can only think of Maybe 3 or 4 who i would see as a top 25 team here in Florida 

 

You bring up those 2 schools in Alabama and auburn but both recruit a lot from other states (like Florida) so I don't know if I can say they fullfill the needs of those schools by the state itself 

 

Not that Alabama don't have talent in the state but it seems the state is limited in depth compared to power states

Half of Auburn's roster and 1/3 of Alabama's roster is filled by in-state kids.  Those are teams who could have whoever they want in the country, but choose to take a lot of kids from Alabama.   ...not that this automatically means there are a lot of good teams there. 

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/aub-m-footbl-mtt.html

There are only 3 Alabama teams in the top 250 according to Maxpreps.  Just law of averages, one would expect 5.  Phenix City Central, a strong program and state semifinalist in their biggest classification, missed the top 250.  There are 27 Florida teams ranked ahead of them.  No way.

Am telling you, the Alabama schools are very underrated.  I'm not an Alabama homey, either.  They are not playing on a national scale as much as the Florida schools, so are flying under the radar.  Belee dat!   

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56 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Half of Auburn's roster and 1/3 of Alabama's roster is filled by in-state kids.  Those are teams who could have whoever they want in the country, but choose to take a lot of kids from Alabama.   ...not that this automatically means there are a lot of good teams there. 

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/aub-m-footbl-mtt.html

There are only 3 Alabama teams in the top 250 according to Maxpreps.  Just law of averages, one would expect 5.  Phenix City Central, a strong program and state semifinalist in their biggest classification, missed the top 250.  There are 27 Florida teams ranked ahead of them.  No way.

Am telling you, the Alabama schools are very underrated.  I'm not an Alabama homey, either.  They are not playing on a national scale as much as the Florida schools, so are flying under the radar.  Belee dat!   

They may be underrated but i just can't see them being able to stack up to Florida 

 

Here is the top 25 maxpreps teams from each state (i think the Florida rankings aren't that good but due to time constraints I'll use them) 

 

FL top 25

1 IMG
2 AHP 
3 Venice 
4 Miami Northwestern 
5 Armwood 
6 Miami Central 
7 Chaminade 
8 Dr Phillips 
9 St Augustine 
10 Cardinal Gibbons 
11 Raines
12 Cocoa
13 Wekiva 
14 Bartram Trail 
15 St Thomas Aquinas 
16 Carol City 
17 Oxbridge Academy 
18 Immokalee 
19 Madison County 
20 Plant
21 Riverview 
22 Winter Park 
23 Viera 
24 Osceola
25 Miami

 

 

AL top 25

1 Hoover
2 Pinson Valley 
3 Thompson 
4 Central
5 McGill-Toolen 
6 Austin 
7 Hewitt-Trussville 
8 Clay-Chalkville
9 Wetumpka
10 Auburn 
11 Oxford 
12 Mountain Brook
13 St Paul's Episcopal 
14 Spanish Fort
15 Spain Park 
16 Park Crossing 
17 Hillcrest
18 Opelika
19 Lee 
20 Bob Jones 
21 Shades Valley 
22 Homewood
23 Oak Mountain 
24 Vestavia Hills 
25 UMS-Wright Prep

 

 

 

 

 

If you lined up 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and so on I couldn't see alabama winning many games here 

 

Don't mean state of Alabama is terrible but Florida is just on another level 

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5 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

They may be underrated but i just can't see them being able to stack up to Florida 

 

Here is the top 25 maxpreps teams from each state (i think the Florida rankings aren't that good but due to time constraints I'll use them) 

 

FL top 25

1 IMG
2 AHP 
3 Venice 
4 Miami Northwestern 
5 Armwood 
6 Miami Central 
7 Chaminade 
8 Dr Phillips 
9 St Augustine 
10 Cardinal Gibbons 
11 Raines
12 Cocoa
13 Wekiva 
14 Bartram Trail 
15 St Thomas Aquinas 
16 Carol City 
17 Oxbridge Academy 
18 Immokalee 
19 Madison County 
20 Plant
21 Riverview 
22 Winter Park 
23 Viera 
24 Osceola
25 Miami

 

 

AL top 25

1 Hoover
2 Pinson Valley 
3 Thompson 
4 Central
5 McGill-Toolen 
6 Austin 
7 Hewitt-Trussville 
8 Clay-Chalkville
9 Wetumpka
10 Auburn 
11 Oxford 
12 Mountain Brook
13 St Paul's Episcopal 
14 Spanish Fort
15 Spain Park 
16 Park Crossing 
17 Hillcrest
18 Opelika
19 Lee 
20 Bob Jones 
21 Shades Valley 
22 Homewood
23 Oak Mountain 
24 Vestavia Hills 
25 UMS-Wright Prep

 

 

 

 

 

If you lined up 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and so on I couldn't see alabama winning many games here 

 

Don't mean state of Alabama is terrible but Florida is just on another level 

Hey buddy,

Am curious what criteria you are using to judge the teams from Alabama, ie poll rankings, records, etc.   When I first moved to Georgia I was blown away by the quality, having always thought Florida was so superior.  For that reason, I  would be hesitant to judge the teams from Alabama without seeing them play. 

I've been in every part of Alabama.  Like some impoverished pockets in Florida, there are areas of Alabama that believe football is the only way out and they take their football very seriously.  If we are talking North Dakota, yeah, I probably don't need a lot of convincing that Florida is on another level.   

I think we sometimes talk about Florida as if the whole state is filled with very good teams.  If Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties fell into the ocean and IMG disappeared, Florida would not be nearly as special.  It is those counties that make Florida so strong.  That's not saying there are not very good teams elsewhere.  But they are spread out.  

South Florida is on another level than Alabama.  Southwest Florida, North Florida, north central Florida...not so sure. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Hey buddy,

Am curious what criteria you are using to judge the teams from Alabama, ie poll rankings, records, etc.   When I first moved to Georgia I was blown away by the quality, having always thought Florida was so superior.  For that reason, I  would be hesitant to judge the teams from Alabama without seeing them play. 

I've been in every part of Alabama.  Like some impoverished pockets in Florida, there are areas of Alabama that believe football is the only way out and they take their football very seriously.  If we are talking North Dakota, yeah, I probably don't need a lot of convincing that Florida is on another level.   

I think we sometimes talk about Florida as if the whole state is filled with very good teams.  If Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties fell into the ocean and IMG disappeared, Florida would not be nearly as special.  It is those counties that make Florida so strong.  That's not saying there are not very good teams elsewhere.  But they are spread out.  

South Florida is on another level than Alabama.  Southwest Florida, North Florida, north central Florida...not so sure. 

 

 

Don’t discount duval, the Orlando and Tampa areas with brevard county too

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17 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:

Don’t discount duval, the Orlando and Tampa areas with brevard county too

Hey Zoe Boy,

There are some great teams in those areas, but am not absolutely certain the density of great teams is such that we could say those areas are on a completely different level than major metro areas in Alabama.  ...southest FL..yes

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17 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Hey Zoe Boy,

There are some great teams in those areas, but am not absolutely certain the density of great teams is such that we could say those areas are on a completely different level than major metro areas in Alabama.  ...southest FL..yes

In Alabama metro area how many great teams comes to mind? I only can think of Hoover n prattvile..??

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44 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:

Don’t discount duval, the Orlando and Tampa areas with brevard county too

Duval would be so much better but the coaching there isn't that good and the administrations in duval don't know how to run a football team 

 

Otherwise they wouldn't fire coaches almost every year 

 

 

Tampa has talent but the county central funding and central scheduling holds their best teams from ever having a realistic shot at winning state 

 

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19 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:

In Alabama metro area how many great teams comes to mind? I only can think of Hoover n prattvile..??

Just so you know my definition of "great," the only Tampa area programs I would consider "great" are Armwood and Plant.  ..in Jacksonville, Bolles and Raines.  So, I don't throw the word around lightly.  ...whereas in southeast FL, there are a bunch.  

There are strong programs nobody has heard of in Alabama because, for whatever reason, the polls don't give them love:wub:  ...a few I can think of... McGill Toolen, Hewitt Trussville, Phenix City Central, Spain Park, Bob Jones, Auburn.

If you check out their records, they may not look terribly impressive, but keep in mind some of these teams beat each other up during the season..just like a Booker T has a season with a poor record but we all know that they are better than their record. 

I'm NOT saying they ARE definitely better than most of our top 25 teams.  I'm simply saying that it is a closer call than some may think(how many folks on the board have actually lived up there..I would think not too many)  and I wouldn't be to eager to bet my money if say, a Bartram Trail or Tampa Plant played one of them.

 

 

 

   

 

 

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10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

Just so you know my definition of "great," the only Tampa area programs I would consider "great" are Armwood and Plant.  ..in Jacksonville, Bolles and Raines.  So, I don't throw the word around lightly.  ...whereas in southeast FL, there are a bunch.  

There are strong programs nobody has heard of in Alabama because, for whatever reason, the polls don't give them love:wub:  ...a few I can think of... McGill Toolen, Hewitt Trussville, Phenix City Central, Spain Park, Bob Jones, Auburn.

If you check out their records, they may not look terribly impressive, but keep in mind some of these teams beat each other up during the season..just like a Booker T has a season with a poor record but we all know that they are better than their record. 

I'm NOT saying they ARE definitely better than most of our top 25 teams.  I'm simply saying that it is a closer call than some may think(how many folks on the board have actually lived up there..I would think not too many)  and I wouldn't be to eager to bet my money if say, a Bartram Trail or Tampa Plant played one of them.

 

 

 

   

 

 

Would you say Tampa,Orlando and Daytona/Brevard County Central Fla as of Dade,Broward, Palm Beach sfla?

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16 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

Just so you know my definition of "great," the only Tampa area programs I would consider "great" are Armwood and Plant.  ..in Jacksonville, Bolles and Raines.  So, I don't throw the word around lightly.  ...whereas in southeast FL, there are a bunch.  

There are strong programs nobody has heard of in Alabama because, for whatever reason, the polls don't give them love:wub:  ...a few I can think of... McGill Toolen, Hewitt Trussville, Phenix City Central, Spain Park, Bob Jones, Auburn.

If you check out their records, they may not look terribly impressive, but keep in mind some of these teams beat each other up during the season..just like a Booker T has a season with a poor record but we all know that they are better than their record. 

I'm NOT saying they ARE definitely better than most of our top 25 teams.  I'm simply saying that it is a closer call than some may think(how many folks on the board have actually lived up there..I would think not too many)  and I wouldn't be to eager to bet my money if say, a Bartram Trail or Tampa Plant played one of them.

 

 

 

   

 

 

You list Bolles in Jacksonville but not Trinity Christian? 

 

And if Bartram trail played Hoover they likely get running clocked, bartram is decent but not elite 

 

I expect a drop-off this year similar to their 2014 team but they probably make playoffs unlike that year when they didn't but they won't be returning to state or final 4

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2 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You list Bolles in Jacksonville but not Trinity Christian? 

 

And if Bartram trail played Hoover they likely get running clocked, bartram is decent but not elite 

 

I expect a drop-off this year similar to their 2014 team but they probably make playoffs unlike that year when they didn't but they won't be returning to state or final 4

Sure, one could debate Trinity Christian is great and maybe even one or two more I forgot.  My point is simply that there are a limited number of truly great programs in certain areas of the state.  Just as every area in Florida does not look like Orlando (like some northerners think), not every area in Florida has a disproportionate number of great teams like Dade/Broward/Palm Beach.  

You mentioned earlier "I can only think of Maybe 3 or 4 who i would see as a top 25 team here in Florida."  Bartram Trail is #14 and Plant#20.  I would not be willing to bet money there are only 3 or 4 teams in Alabama better than them.   I would bet there are at least ten teams in Alabama who could give those two(or any of the lower ranked team on the rankings list) all they could handle, if not defeat them.  

Last year Hewitt Trussville put up 78 on a decent Manatee team and in 2014 Clay Chalkville beat Florida #14 ranked Niceville in 44-23.  I bet those results really surprised some folks who had never heard of those programs.  In some posts last year, I showed the limited success some of our teams have had playing oos teams.  Yes there was home field advantage for many of the oos teams and maybe even some home cookin'.  But if we have THAT many truly great teams in FL, we should be winning more oos games than we have. 

I truly believe that the rest of the country is slowly catching up with Florida.  The merry-go-round of players and coaches is holding back progress in Florida while certain other states are progressing. 

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9 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Sure, one could debate Trinity Christian is great and maybe even one or two more I forgot.  My point is simply that there are a limited number of truly great programs in certain areas of the state.  Just as every area in Florida does not look like Orlando (like some northerners think), not every area in Florida has a disproportionate number of great teams like Dade/Broward/Palm Beach.  

You mentioned earlier "I can only think of Maybe 3 or 4 who i would see as a top 25 team here in Florida."  Bartram Trail is #14 and Plant#20.  I would not be willing to bet money there are only 3 or 4 teams in Alabama better than them.   I would bet there are at least ten teams in Alabama who could give those two(or any of the lower ranked team on the rankings list) all they could handle, if not defeat them.  

Last year Hewitt Trussville put up 78 on a decent Manatee team and in 2014 Clay Chalkville beat Florida #14 ranked Niceville in 44-23.  I bet those results really surprised some folks who had never heard of those programs.  In some posts last year, I showed the limited success some of our teams have had playing oos teams.  Yes there was home field advantage for many of the oos teams and maybe even some home cookin'.  But if we have THAT many truly great teams in FL, we should be winning more oos games than we have. 

I truly believe that the rest of the country is slowly catching up with Florida.  The merry-go-round of players and coaches is holding back progress in Florida while certain other states are progressing. 

First off that same manatee team lost to Lincoln if i remember correctly and we beat Lincoln by 37 in playoffs 

 

That game was 2 years ago if i remember correctly 

 

 

I'll use GA as a example 

 

 

Teams like lowndes play weak FL teams, i think plant was only team who top 50 when they played 

 

All were in GA 

 

 

 

Grayson played img and Miami Central before but also played isb this past year 

 

 

Colquitt played AHP and lost but also play lower level FL teams 

 

 

Fact is most oos teams fear FL and they will instead schedule a 400th ranked team in state and act like they beat a powerhouse but won't have the guts to play a elite team and these FL teams won't turn a game down even if they will get blown out 

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I just moved to Alabama and while I haven't been here for a football season, I'll give a few thoughts:

-One reason why the publics dont have as much worry as the publics is that there is a separate organization for the privates (AISA). Now there are privates that play in the AHSAA, not sure what the stipulations are on them playing there though.

-In the short time that I've been here, transferring is not nearly the issue it is in Florida. I've seen a couple kids tweet about transferring but not many.

-Some stuff is tough to evaluate in my opinion, but I think the coaching in Alabama probably helps equal out whatever talent disparity there may be between FL and AL. They pay coaches better here, head coaches are ADs, just like in Texas.

-The top schools in AL can definitely compete with the top schools in FL. And keep in mind, a 6A in Alabama would be closer to 4A in Florida.

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24 minutes ago, DB4 said:

I just moved to Alabama and while I haven't been here for a football season, I'll give a few thoughts:

-One reason why the publics dont have as much worry as the publics is that there is a separate organization for the privates (AISA). Now there are privates that play in the AHSAA, not sure what the stipulations are on them playing there though.

-In the short time that I've been here, transferring is not nearly the issue it is in Florida. I've seen a couple kids tweet about transferring but not many.

-Some stuff is tough to evaluate in my opinion, but I think the coaching in Alabama probably helps equal out whatever talent disparity there may be between FL and AL. They pay coaches better here, head coaches are ADs, just like in Texas.

-The top schools in AL can definitely compete with the top schools in FL. And keep in mind, a 6A in Alabama would be closer to 4A in Florida.

They have either a 1.5 student population multiplier or 2.0

 

I forgot which 

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25 minutes ago, DB4 said:

I just moved to Alabama and while I haven't been here for a football season, I'll give a few thoughts:

-One reason why the publics dont have as much worry as the publics is that there is a separate organization for the privates (AISA). Now there are privates that play in the AHSAA, not sure what the stipulations are on them playing there though.

-In the short time that I've been here, transferring is not nearly the issue it is in Florida. I've seen a couple kids tweet about transferring but not many.

-Some stuff is tough to evaluate in my opinion, but I think the coaching in Alabama probably helps equal out whatever talent disparity there may be between FL and AL. They pay coaches better here, head coaches are ADs, just like in Texas.

-The top schools in AL can definitely compete with the top schools in FL. And keep in mind, a 6A in Alabama would be closer to 4A in Florida.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that exactly 

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