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On 3/5/2018 at 11:27 AM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

That surprises me because high school football in Alabama don't even come close to comparing to Florida 

 

Florida is almost a lock as a top 3 state every year and alabama is not even top 10 state 

You'd be foolish to think that like that top 3 to 5 teams in Bama could not compete with our states best or any states best for that.  Hoover beat the Fighting Tebows many years ago.

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3 minutes ago, peezy28 said:

You'd be foolish to think that like that top 3 to 5 teams in Bama could not compete with our states best or any states best for that.  Hoover beat the Fighting Tebows many years ago.

First 

 

You can say that about several states (Maryland/DC, Arizona, hawaii, ect) 

 

But Alabama don't even come close in depth to FL 

 

Same with those states as well

 

 

Also who you mean by the fighting Tebow's? 

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On 3/6/2018 at 11:55 AM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Duval would be so much better but the coaching there isn't that good and the administrations in duval don't know how to run a football team 

 

Otherwise they wouldn't fire coaches almost every year 

 

 

Tampa has talent but the county central funding and central scheduling holds their best teams from ever having a realistic shot at winning state 

 

AGAIN!  This is proven false by the  the 8 titles since 2003 and even more state title appearances by Tampa Area schools (The Tampa bay area is more than Hillsborough).

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4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

First 

 

You can say that about several states (Maryland/DC, Arizona, hawaii, ect) 

 

But Alabama don't even come close in depth to FL 

 

Same with those states as well

 

 

Also who you mean by the fighting Tebow's? 

Hoover beat Nease during their 1st title year with Tebow. It was a long time ago and depicted in the MTV reality show 2 A days (look up the vid).  Oh and your right, I don't think Bama has the depth but they are not like a bunch of trash teams. 

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1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But Alabama don't even come close in depth to FL 

Same with those states as well

Also who you mean by the fighting Tebow's? 

1 hour ago, peezy28 said:

You'd be foolish to think that like that top 3 to 5 teams in Bama could not compete with our states best or any states best for that.  Hoover beat the Fighting Tebows many years ago.

Florida's population is about quadruple that of Alabama.  Generally speaking, the high schools there are much smaller.   So, comparing the two states is not exactly apples to apples.

To the right of each name is the FL classification where theTop 25 Alabama high schools would play if they were in Florida.  With the exception of AHP, match the top 10 5A teams in AL versus Florida's top 10 5A teams and, at the very least, I think they would give those teams all they could handle, if not beat them.  Several of those teams would be very capable of making the FL 5A state final.   Concerning 4A top 10 matchups..I feel pretty confident saying the Alabama schools would get the best of the FL schools.

1 Hoover  7A
2 Pinson Valley 4A
3 Thompson 5A
4 Central 5A
5 McGill-Toolen 5A
6 Austin 4A
7 Hewitt-Trussville 5A
8 Clay-Chalkville 4A
9 Wetumpka 4A
10 Auburn 6A
11 Oxford 4A
12 Mountain Brook 5A
13 St Paul's Episcopal 3A
14 Spanish Fort 4A
15 Spain Park 5A
16 Park Crossing 4A
17 Hillcrest 4A
18 Opelika 4A
19 Lee 5A
20 Bob Jones 5A
21 Shades Valley 5A
22 Homewood 4A
23 Oak Mountain 5A
24 Vestavia Hills 5A
25 UMS-Wright Prep 3A

  •  

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FL top 25

1 IMG
2 AHP 
3 Venice 
4 Miami Northwestern 
5 Armwood 
6 Miami Central 
7 Chaminade 
8 Dr Phillips 
9 St Augustine 
10 Cardinal Gibbons 
11 Raines
12 Cocoa
13 Wekiva 
14 Bartram Trail 
15 St Thomas Aquinas 
16 Carol City 
17 Oxbridge Academy 
18 Immokalee 
19 Madison County 
20 Plant
21 Riverview 
22 Winter Park 
23 Viera 
24 Osceola
25 Miami

 

 

AL top 25

1 Hoover
2 Pinson Valley 
3 Thompson 
4 Central
5 McGill-Toolen 
6 Austin 
7 Hewitt-Trussville 
8 Clay-Chalkville
9 Wetumpka
10 Auburn 
11 Oxford 
12 Mountain Brook
13 St Paul's Episcopal 
14 Spanish Fort
15 Spain Park 
16 Park Crossing 
17 Hillcrest
18 Opelika
19 Lee 
20 Bob Jones 
21 Shades Valley 
22 Homewood
23 Oak Mountain 
24 Vestavia Hills 
25 UMS-Wright Prep

 

 

 

 

1 FL  IMG (Ind) vs 1 AL Hoover (7a)

2 FL AHP (5a) vs 2 AL Pinson Valley (4a)

3 FL Venice (7a) vs 3 AL Thompson (5a)

4 FL Miami Northwestern (6a) vs 4 AL Central (5a)

5 FL Armwood (6a) vs 5 AL McGill-Toolen (5a)

6 FL Miami Central (6a) vs 6 AL Austin (4a)

7 FL Chaminade Madonna (3a) vs 7 AL Hewitt-Trusville (5a)

8 FL Dr Phillips (8a) vs 8 AL Clay-Chalkville (4a)

9 FL St Augustine (6a) vs 9 AL Wetumpka (4a)

10 FL Cardinal Gibbons (5a) vs 10 AL Auburn (6a)

11 FL Raines (4a) vs 11 AL Oxford (4a)

12 FL Cocoa (4a) vs 12 AL Mountain Brook (5a)

13 FL Wekiva (8a) vs 13 AL St Paul's Episcopal (3a)

14 FL Bartram Trail (7a) vs 14 AL Spanish Fort (4a)

15 FL St Thomas Aquinas (7a) vs 15 AL Spain Park (5a)

16 FL Miami Carol City (6a) vs 16 AL Park Crossing (4a)

17 FL Oxbridge Academy (3a) vs 17 AL Hillcrest (4a)

18 FL Immokalee (5a) vs 18 AL Opelika (4a)

19 FL Madison County (1a) vs 19 AL Lee (5a)

20 FL Plant (7a) vs 20 AL Bob Jones (5a)

21 FL Riverview (8a) vs 21 AL Shades Valley (5a)

22 FL Winter Park (8a) vs 22 AL Homewood (4a)

23 FL Viera (7a) vs 23 AL Oak Mountain (5a)

24 FL Osceola (8a) vs 24 AL Vestavia Hills (5a)

25 FL Miami (8a) vs 25 AL UMS-Wright Prep (3a)

 

 

Now realistically how many games would Alabama be favored there? 

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23 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Florida's population is about quadruple that of Alabama.  Generally speaking, the high schools there are much smaller.   So, comparing the two states is not exactly apples to apples.

To the right of each name is the FL classification where theTop 25 Alabama high schools would play if they were in Florida.  With the exception of AHP, match the top 10 5A teams in AL versus Florida's top 10 5A teams and, at the very least, I think they would give those teams all they could handle, if not beat them.  Several of those teams would be very capable of making the FL 5A state final.   Concerning 4A top 10 matchups..I feel pretty confident saying the Alabama schools would get the best of the FL schools.

1 Hoover  7A
2 Pinson Valley 4A
3 Thompson 5A
4 Central 5A
5 McGill-Toolen 5A
6 Austin 4A
7 Hewitt-Trussville 5A
8 Clay-Chalkville 4A
9 Wetumpka 4A
10 Auburn 6A
11 Oxford 4A
12 Mountain Brook 5A
13 St Paul's Episcopal 3A
14 Spanish Fort 4A
15 Spain Park 5A
16 Park Crossing 4A
17 Hillcrest 4A
18 Opelika 4A
19 Lee 5A
20 Bob Jones 5A
21 Shades Valley 5A
22 Homewood 4A
23 Oak Mountain 5A
24 Vestavia Hills 5A
25 UMS-Wright Prep 3A

  •  

There are several states (including Alabama) who have solid teams at the top that could compete but does a team having a few elite teams at the top make the state itself elite? 

 

I probably came off a little harsh in my statement about the state of Alabama football quality but it's just facts that very few states can match the depth of Florida 

 

States like Georgia and Texas come to mind and also to a slightly lesser extent California (mainly because California is usually top heavy while states like FL, GA and TX have strong depth)

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2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

There are several states (including Alabama) who have solid teams at the top that could compete but does a team having a few elite teams at the top make the state itself elite? 

I probably came off a little harsh in my statement about the state of Alabama football quality but it's just facts that very few states can match the depth of Florida 

States like Georgia and Texas come to mind and also to a slightly lesser extent California (mainly because California is usually top heavy while states like FL, GA and TX have strong depth)

You are comparing a middleweight boxer to a heavyweight.  The largest cities in Alabama...Birmingham, Montgomery, Huntsville and Mobile...each have about 200,000 people...about the same size as Tallahassee.   Although the heavyweight might beat the middleweight in a fight, it does not necessarily make the latter any less elite.  Put high schools from those Alabama cities up against schools from Tallahassee and you've got a fair fight. 

I'd encourage you to spend time there and judge the quality of football up close rather than from afar.  The rosters of  Auburn and AL are loaded with "local" kids from high schools you have never heard of...because a lot of them are smaller schools that do not make the national polls.  

 

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Just now, OldSchoolLion said:

You are comparing a middleweight boxer to a heavyweight.  The largest cities in Alabama...Birmingham, Montgomery, Huntsville and Mobile...each have about 200,000 people...about the same size as Tallahassee.   Although the heavyweight might beat the middleweight in a fight, it does not necessarily make the latter any less elite.  Put high schools from those Alabama cities up against schools from Tallahassee and you've got a fair fight. 

I'd encourage you to spend time there and judge the quality of football up close rather than from afar.  The rosters of  Auburn and AL are loaded with "local" kids from high schools you have never heard of...because a lot of them are smaller schools that do not make the national polls.  

 

Tallahassee might be the weakest big city in the state when it comes to football 

 

At least in past few years

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2 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

You are comparing a middleweight boxer to a heavyweight.  The largest cities in Alabama...Birmingham, Montgomery, Huntsville and Mobile...each have about 200,000 people...about the same size as Tallahassee.   Although the heavyweight might beat the middleweight in a fight, it does not necessarily make the latter any less elite.  Put high schools from those Alabama cities up against schools from Tallahassee and you've got a fair fight. 

I'd encourage you to spend time there and judge the quality of football up close rather than from afar.  The rosters of  Auburn and AL are loaded with "local" kids from high schools you have never heard of...because a lot of them are smaller schools that do not make the national polls.  

 

I agree

 

Alabama is a good state,  for their size

 

So is Mississippi, Louisiana, Hawaii, and Arizona 

 

When you compare them to those states they will look good (other middleweight fighters)

 

But if you compare them to heavyweights (FL, GA, TX, OH, CA) it won't be good 

 

That's not really a knock on Alabama that is just facts, they just don't have the overall size to match larger powerhouse states in depth

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Sigh, I know you had to learn to a proper comparison in high school.
Alabama has 1/4 of the population of Florida, so if you think that Florida has 25 "elite" teams than Bama should only have to have about 6 in order to have a proper ratio.
Second, counting IMG as a Florida school is stupid, that is a school that could be located in any state is essentially a national school with their open recruiting. 
Third, comparing school sizes is important. 11 of the florida schools on your top 25 list are 7A and 8A, only Hoover would be in that designation from Alabama. Additionally, 5 of the schools (not in the above 11) are private schools, so 16 of your schools are private or larger than almost every school in Bama. Come'on Now, apples to apples comparison. 
Fourth, if Tallahassee is weak and Columbia lost to them... you know what, nervermind... I already know
 

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2 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Sigh, I know you had to learn to a proper comparison in high school.
Alabama has 1/4 of the population of Florida, so if you think that Florida has 25 "elite" teams than Bama should only have to have about 6 in order to have a proper ratio.
Second, counting IMG as a Florida school is stupid, that is a school that could be located in any state is essentially a national school with their open recruiting. 
Third, comparing school sizes is important. 11 of the florida schools on your top 25 list are 7A and 8A, only Hoover would be in that designation from Alabama. Additionally, 5 of the schools (not in the above 11) are private schools, so 16 of your schools are private or larger than almost every school in Bama. Come'on Now, apples to apples comparison. 
Fourth, if Tallahassee is weak and Columbia lost to them... you know what, nervermind... I already know
 

Congrats they found a way to win 1 time in 5 tries at Gene Cox since 2013

 

Just like buchholz got 1 win since 2008 over us

 

Both are outliers that don't match the overall trend 

 

 

Also i only counted IMG because i was using the maxpreps rankings for both, had i used my rankings i wouldnt have included them

 

Also you need to take context of population, FL has 4 times population but a heavy portion of that population are people who never played a single high school sport in the state, you have to compare high school players not population 

 

70 year old retirees don't help FL in high school football argument 

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2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

To determine the top football baby factories, cleveland.com tabulated state totals for where NFL players were born and then calculated a ranking -- based on a ratio of current players from each state to births in the early 1990s when a big share of today's players were born.  The top five states are all from the Southeast. 

23407448-mmmain.png

Rank State Ratio (y) NFL Players (x)
1 Florida 1 in 4,095 201
2 Georgia 1 in 4,132 114
3 South Carolina 1 in 4,745 51
4 Alabama 1 in 4,818 55
5 Louisiana 1 in 5,017 60
6 Hawaii 1 in 6,462 13
7 Mississippi 1 in 7,000 26
8 Nebraska 1 in 7,692 13
9 Nevada 1 in 7,833 12
10 Ohio 1 in 8,226 84
11 Texas 1 in 8,818 154
12 Tennessee 1 in 9,515 33
13 North Carolina 1 in 9,711 45
14 Wisconsin 1 in 10,786 28
15 New Jersey 1 in 10,809 47
16 Delaware 1 in 11,250 4
17 Oklahoma 1 in 11,333 18
18 Maryland 1 in 11,517 29
19 Arizona 1 in 11,680 25
20 Virginia 1 in 11,800 35
21 Pennsylvania 1 in 11,831 59
22 Missouri 1 in 12,577 26
23 California 1 in 12,809 199
24 Arkansas 1 in 13,545 11
25 Iowa 1 in 13,583 12
26 Oregon 1 in 13,769 13
27 Utah 1 in 14,182 11
28 Colorado 1 in 14,313 16
29 Idaho 1 in 14,600 5
30 Michigan 1 in 15,049 41
31 Minnesota 1 in 15,611 18
32 Washington 1 in 17,789 19
33 North Dakota 1 in 18,500 2
34 Illinois 1 in 19,452 42
35 Connecticut 1 in 20,400 10
36 Indiana 1 in 21,176 17
37 Kansas 1 in 22,857 7
38 South Dakota 1 in 23,500 2
38 West Virginia 1 in 23,500 4
40 Kentucky 1 in 25,222 9
41 Wyoming 1 in 28,000 1
42 Massachusetts 1 in 37,200 10
43 New Mexico 1 in 39,333 3
44 New York 1 in 42,552 29
45 Montana 1 in 49,000 1
46 New Hampshire 1 in 69,000 1
47 Alaska NA 0
47 Maine NA 0
47 Rhode Island NA 0
47 Vermont NA 0

nfl-players-home-statespng-fb305c4df5b052b3.png

@gatorman-uf

 

This data is much more relavant since it is taking data only from players in each state 

 

It isn't counting excess population from people who never played sports

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Data says born in a state, not played football in the state for the first map...
How about this...
in 2010, Florida had 1,228, 382 15-19 year olds
In 2010, Alabama had 320,197 15-19 year olds which again is 1/4 of the Population of Florida (old people or not, Florida has more high school age players). 
So once again, however many teams you want Florida to have that are elite, divide that number by 4 and that should be the expectation of Alabama. 
And until you actually leave Columbia County on something other than a school bus to watch a team that is not Columbia High School, why don't we calm down on insisting that nobody plays as good as football as Florida.

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7 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Data says born in a state, not played football in the state for the first map...
How about this...
in 2010, Florida had 1,228, 382 15-19 year olds
In 2010, Alabama had 320,197 15-19 year olds which again is 1/4 of the Population of Florida (old people or not, Florida has more high school age players). 

So once again, however many teams you want Florida to have that are elite, divide that number by 4 and that should be the expectation of Alabama. 
And until you actually leave Columbia County on something other than a school bus to watch a team that is not Columbia High School, why don't we calm down on insisting that nobody plays as good as football as Florida.

This what i mean

 

At least this data is fair 

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1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

Sigh, I know you had to learn to a proper comparison in high school.
Alabama has 1/4 of the population of Florida, so if you think that Florida has 25 "elite" teams than Bama should only have to have about 6 in order to have a proper ratio.
Second, counting IMG as a Florida school is stupid, that is a school that could be located in any state is essentially a national school with their open recruiting. 
Third, comparing school sizes is important. 11 of the florida schools on your top 25 list are 7A and 8A, only Hoover would be in that designation from Alabama. Additionally, 5 of the schools (not in the above 11) are private schools, so 16 of your schools are private or larger than almost every school in Bama. Come'on Now, apples to apples comparison. 
Fourth, if Tallahassee is weak and Columbia lost to them... you know what, nervermind... I already know
 

If IMG disappeared and Miami-Dade, Broward and PalmBeach slid off into the Atlantic, we would not be beating our chest.  They are what gives Florida most of its depth.  St Thomas, IMG, Central, Booker T, etc, have brought Florida acclaim with success in OOS games, while most of our teams are not proven against top-flight OOS competition.

We sometimes talk about the entire state of Florida as if it is far superior to other states.  Put the top 10 teams from Atlanta or Dallas against the top 10 from Tampa Orlando or Jacksonville, and we would likely be in trouble, especially in the #6-10 range.

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13 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

If IMG disappeared and Miami-Dade, Broward and PalmBeach slid off into the Atlantic, we would not be beating our chest.  They are what gives Florida most of its depth.  St Thomas, IMG, Central, Booker T, etc, have brought Florida acclaim with success in OOS games, while most of our teams are not proven against top-flight OOS competition.

We sometimes talk about the entire state of Florida as if it is far superior to other states.  Put the top 10 teams from Atlanta or Dallas against the top 10 from Tampa Orlando or Jacksonville, and we would likely be in trouble, especially in the #6-10 range.

And if you take out Atlanta metro area then a lot of the elite programs currently in GA is gone

 

We can go back and forth on that kind of argument so agree to disagree 

 

Now i agree with Jacksonville which i have stated my opinion about the "depth" before in the past

 

Tampa is similar to Jacksonville recently as both are really top heavy

 

Orlando metro does have some depth though

 

But explain to me why it's fair to compare the top tier metros in GA and TX to the 2nd tier metros in FL? 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And if you take out Atlanta metro area then a lot of the elite programs currently in GA is gone

We can go back and forth on that kind of argument so agree to disagree 

Now i agree with Jacksonville which i have stated my opinion about the "depth" before in the past

Tampa is similar to Jacksonville recently as both are really top heavy

Orlando metro does have some depth though

But explain to me why it's fair to compare the top tier metros in GA and TX to the 2nd tier metros in FL? 

 

More than half of the entire population of Georgia lives in the Atlanta MSA.  So, one would expect a large portion of its top-ranked teams to be there. Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties account for about 25% of the population of Florida, yet a large proportion of its elite-level teams are there.   The remainder of Florida's counties combined have about twice as many people as the Atlanta MSA.  From your list above, the best of the other counties would be...Venice, Armwood, Dr Phillips, St Augustine, Raines, Cocoa, Wekiva.  Even with half of the population to pull from, the Atlanta MSA's top 7 would give them all they could handle.

The point is simply that much of Florida is no more special than many places in the South.  You need to see it for yourself, ColumbiaFan.  

 

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On 7/17/2018 at 12:47 PM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

 

Seems that every time Belleview gets a coach that wins they leave. Trying to find a replacement this soon before the season starts really messes up a team.

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