West Orange 70-32 over Lyman

[STILL KRUNK]

Hey congratulations to West Orange victorious over a good 5-5 Lyman team.  Hats off to Coach Thomas and Gomez; doing good things with the Greyhounds.  Not a huge fan of bowl games, but I think the WO Seniors deserved it.  btw, the 70 points was by the end of the 3rd quarter just so Dawg doesn't think there was any late piling on.

One thing is for sure, last night, the two teams that were on the field, and for all who saw, at 10:30 pm there was no question who the better team was last night and there would be no question who would advance if it were a playoff scenario.

The Warriors are definitely one of the top 8 teams in the region, if not the hottest team in Region 1 right now..... I know it, YOU know it, EVERYBODY who played us knows it, Heck, Region 1 and the East side of Region 2 knows it......FHSAA and the POINT SYSTEM just don't know it.  The real problem, is when made aware of this and many other issues concerning other schools and our system and watching it play out before our eyes, the powers that be decided to ride out a bad scenario............sad really............because the only ones that lose are 18 year old young men who won't receive that shot again - EVER.

Maybe we should just let the kids play it out on the field instead of trying to figure out how to weigh, or how much weight or, what class is who, and who played who and every Prognosticator telling kids who have a very short window to play a game they LOVE, that this 7-3 is better than this 6-4, this 5-5 is better than that 8-2.........PUT THE BALL DOWN AND LET THE KIDS PLAY! Let them sort it out. Let them COMPETE and FAIL, Let them BATTLE and PERSEVERE, Let them STRUGGLE with insurmountable odds and ENDURE. Let them EXHAUST THEMSELVES with every thing that they are, ALL for 3 hours of their week, for 3 months a year, for 3 year of their life and let the CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.

MAYBE, just maybe, we should line up everybody who has a shot (16 teams in a Region - Lyman would have been 16th in Region 1 at 5-5). and LET THEM PLAY especially, when there is little to no effect on the powers that be

THAT is what I have always understood the FHSAA to be, THAT is what I played under in my scholastic career, THAT is what I signed up for to coach, THAT is what we pride ourselves on in the State of Florida - COMPETITION!  SO LET THEM COMPETE!

 

WILL ALWAYS BE,

KRUNK

 

 

 

 

[nolebull813]

Why do you not like bowl games? I feel there should be 20-30 a year at least. 

There is literally no downside to them. 

It gives the seniors who missed the playoffs 1 last game where 99 percent of them will never play another down in their life. 

And it gives your younger guys an extra week of practice and 1 more game to gain extra experience. 

Can you list all the cons of them? 

[STILL KRUNK]

Because when your goal is to get in the playoffs and be the best in the State, the T-shirt and the Trophy does not always motivate that group to perform one last time.

I would rather see those teams (if within the top 16 in the region) play in the 1st round.

Example, West Orange and Lyman.....If those two teams were playing their Respective opponent tonight, West Orange would be advancing to 2nd round and Lyman possibly, don't let the spread of the game fool you, Lyman is a good team.  They should get a shot, even if it is the #1 seed.

We do this in every other sport in every single division of play except BCS (who is coming around slowly).

When we start caring about the sport, its integrity, the athlete and the game, MORE THAN the system, the logistics and the finances then we may experience great things about ourselves, about people, growth of kids and achievement.

You can have the bowl games if you like, I've played in a couple, just seen it go bad some times, more times that i would like to see and THAT is definitely not how you want to end a season or career.

[nolebull813]

Hey you are preaching to the choir about the whack ass playoff system we have. 

No matter how they tweak it, as long as it's watered down like it is now it's gonna stink. There's nothing you can do to improve it unless you combine the classes. 

The point system sucks because you are at the mercy of how your opponents do. What if a stud QB goes down to injury and the team tanks? Your points go down. 

The only positive thing about it is no 2-8 and 3-7 teams are littered in it. 

[dawgs]

was pretty shocked to see the 70 spot.  lyman is a solid team this year.  years to come, im not so sure... unless they got alot coming back, the lower levels(jv/9th teams) were pretty bad.  but...

70 thru 3 is impressive.  nice job coach.  

so you want to add a round to the playoffs?  so we extend the season another week? is that in the front or in the back end or do we eliminate the by weeks and play straight thru.  or eliminate a week of games and just play 9?

something has to give in your idea.  not a bad one, dont dislike it.  but isnt that watering down the playoffs?

wasnt that the goal?  stop the bs from entering the playoffs?

its not the system itself they have in place,  its the point spreads.  losing shouldnt count nearly as much as it does.  

for example

you schedule 10 playoff teams from last fall and go 0-10, they all go 10-0,9-1,8-2, so you earn 33 points per loss

how friggin close are you to qualifying?  i know its unrealistic and your not in the playoff hunt with 330 points/33. per game,

but it sure is close.  too close for comfort i think.

 

[STILL KRUNK]

42 minutes ago, nolebull813 said:

Hey you are preaching to the choir about the whack ass playoff system we have. 

No matter how they tweak it, as long as it's watered down like it is now it's gonna stink. There's nothing you can do to improve it unless you combine the classes. 

The point system sucks because you are at the mercy of how your opponents do. What if a stud QB goes down to injury and the team tanks? Your points go down. 

The only positive thing about it is no 2-8 and 3-7 teams are littered in it. 

Right on the 2-8's or how a about 4 teams SELF-REPORTING the day after last district match up and every team that played them now factor in a CAT 4 win........YIPPIE!

If you win your district fine, there is some thing to be said about winning your season, no problem here. Now you want to strengthen districts or increase district size or wipe out a classification and put more teams together, that is fine, but you win District you deserve a shot a playoffs - at any level, Yeah even MAC Conference Champions deserve a BCS shot, YEAH I said it right here. floridahsfootball.com!

the problem comes in those with the 2nd and 3rd place teams, Literally 1 or 2 plays may separate a lot of those district titles. put 1, 2 and 3 in if they are top 16.  The state Champion each year is not always the most talented, it may be hardest workers, fewest injuries, whatever, that LASTED, ENDURED they are the best TEAM that year and deserve to be called CHAMPIONS!

[STILL KRUNK]

5 minutes ago, dawgs said:

was pretty shocked to see the 70 spot.  lyman is a solid team this year.  years to come, im not so sure... unless they got alot coming back, the lower levels(jv/9th teams) were pretty bad.  but...

70 thru 3 is impressive.  nice job coach.  

so you want to add a round to the playoffs?  so we extend the season another week? is that in the front or in the back end or do we eliminate the by weeks and play straight thru.  or eliminate a week of games and just play 9?

something has to give in your idea.  not a bad one, dont dislike it.  but isnt that watering down the playoffs?

wasnt that the goal?  stop the bs from entering the playoffs?

its not the system itself they have in place,  its the point spreads.  losing shouldnt count nearly as much as it does.  

for example

you schedule 10 playoff teams from last fall and go 0-10, they all go 10-0,9-1,8-2, so you earn 33 points per loss

how friggin close are you to qualifying?  i know its unrealistic and your not in the playoff hunt with 330 points/33. per game,

but it sure is close.  too close for comfort i think.

 

I would Play 9. You could play 9, give errbody week 10 OPEN, so FHSAA can git it all sckrait..... if they don't need it, then let school take their open when they want it.  Our Week 11 now would be Round 1, Round 2 is now still Round 2, same time, same place.

I don't think its a dilution of playoffs. Baseball, Basketball, swimming, BOWLING, swimming all have post season meets with Majority if not all in it.  I wold put all but like i said, Lyman would be 16th at 5-5, 17th was 2-8.....there is a delineation there and REALLY, 2-8 arguing to get in....?????? If anything I would say it takes the "committee" out of the decision making and leaves in the hands of the kids and that alone is worth putting 16 in...NOT district winner and runner up, Winner deserve to be IN, runner up may, Let Laz or Pinkos measure ALL facets of the season and determine seed.  I am even ok leaving district winner in top seeds, but you will see some blasted out of the water, but I'm OK with leaving it, they are IN.  Different griping being IN or OUT or about what seed you are ......that is not what is happening.

Yes that is what I'm saying, too close/easy to manipulate and FAVORS to GOOD to AVERAGE team NOT generally your BEST.  

Example, some teams, i will use West Orange as an example (it think many, Apopka DP, Booker T) cannot find games other than each other. West Orange had some of the team that are IN THE PLAYOFFS flat out say "No we don't want to play yall." That Good - Average team(s) can say that and then has the pick of whomever they want to play - lower class Cat 1s will play them in hopes to pick them off, Average same Class will play them because they think they can match up

So YES West Orange 6-4 is stronger than Spruce Creek's record, I believe Boone's record, Seminole Lake Mary, is a little tougher for me to call .....but wait......hold on........I'm gonna say it.......West 6-4 is Stronger than Flagler Palm Coast's...... OH MY KRUNK, NOYOUDIDN'T!?!?!?!?!?!

I know, i did, i did, 1 things for sure.......We would have known for sure Tonight would not we have.

[Dan in Daytona]

Coach, I've been with you and your point of view up till now. Sure FPC and Spruce Creek didn't beat any super team this year. But FPC did win their district and go undefeated. Spruce Creek on the other hand would have been undefeated had not the ref's blown an inadvertent whistle on a pick 6. You lost 4 games and Apopka was the ONLY good team you beat and the ONLY team with a winning record. You beat a historical weak Olympia team in week one and you go to the playoffs too !  My homer team Mainland didn't beat anybody worth a damn all season long either.  But in our region four teams from district 16 made the playoffs with a murderous schedule. You could have done the same thing. Sure no one thinks this new system is great and hopefully things will be adjusted in the off season. I feel your pain coach and mean no disrespect, but with only one quality win and four loses you need to move on. Peace     

[STILL KRUNK]

Dan I appreciate that and you said it with class. I can absolutely respect that. But again if you are counting win/loss exclusively that would be the conclusion. 

No disrespect taken, but with no disrespect, without that inadvertent whistle...FPC would have 1 loss to SC and the only Cat 1 game EITHER had played.

Answer me this, IF FPC or SC, would have played DP, Apopka, Wekiva, Jones....would they have won?  Does that change your mind at all. Do losses/close losses to Cat 1 teams matter to you?  We will see in the next few weeks how Dist 1 matches up with the rest. Won't have to speculate.

I simply said Dan West Orange is Top 8 you can take out whichever one you want, but saying a team is deserving just because their 8-2 doesn't weigh the whole pig!  

[Dan in Daytona]

37 minutes ago, STILL KRUNK said:

Dan I appreciate that and you said it with class. I can absolutely respect that. But again if you are counting win/loss exclusively that would be the conclusion. 

No disrespect taken, but with no disrespect, without that inadvertent whistle...FPC would have 1 loss to SC and the only Cat 1 game EITHER had played.

Answer me this, IF FPC or SC, would have played DP, Apopka, Wekiva, Jones....would they have won?  Does that change your mind at all. Do losses/close losses to Cat 1 teams matter to you?  We will see in the next few weeks how Dist 1 matches up with the rest. Won't have to speculate.

I simply said Dan West Orange is Top 8 you can take out whichever one you want, but saying a team is deserving just because their 8-2 doesn't weigh the whole pig!  

I agree 100%. FPC, Spruce Creek, Mainland, PB Heritage, Dillard, and many others would not have made it in your district. But would you have made it in 6A-16 ? Many districts have only one race horse, and some of those aren't really thoroughbreds (See:FPC).  High school Football like life itself isn't always fair. Without a multiple format like you mentioned in other sports,where all teams qualify, nothing would be beyond reproach. Get involved with the process coach. Give your thoughts to the FHSAA. You input may open minds. Good luck in the future. God knows the kids today sure need the steady hand and guidance they receive from you guys every afternoon. I tip my hat to all you coaches. 

[STILL KRUNK]

1 hour ago, Dan in Daytona said:

I agree 100%. FPC, Spruce Creek, Mainland, PB Heritage, Dillard, and many others would not have made it in your district. But would you have made it in 6A-16 ? Many districts have only one race horse, and some of those aren't really thoroughbreds (See:FPC).  High school Football like life itself isn't always fair. Without a multiple format like you mentioned in other sports,where all teams qualify, nothing would be beyond reproach. Get involved with the process coach. Give your thoughts to the FHSAA. You input may open minds. Good luck in the future. God knows the kids today sure need the steady hand and guidance they receive from you guys every afternoon. I tip my hat to all you coaches. 

Thank you Coach, I have and will continue to do.

[Pipe Dreams]

West Orange had a nice season.

 

Agree with Krunk about scheduling. They were probably a 7-8 team in region 1 under the perfect playoff system but no one schedules western Orange County teams. That is a fact and is why DP and Apopka always play each other.

When you create bubbles like that the teams just devour each other into lower winning percentages.

West Orange County is loaded with talent. The only area of the state with more talent in a smaller area is 305.

[dawgs]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:43 AM, Pipe Dreams said:

West Orange had a nice season.

 

Agree with Krunk about scheduling. They were probably a 7-8 team in region 1 under the perfect playoff system but no one schedules western Orange County teams. That is a fact and is why DP and Apopka always play each other.

When you create bubbles like that the teams just devour each other into lower winning percentages.

West Orange County is loaded with talent. The only area of the state with more talent in a smaller area is 305.

i dont disagree with the western orlando playing each other because nobody else will.

however.....

when the county AD from 3-4 years ago would say this in those january meeting of the minds that control orange county football,

"we will take care of ourselves before we travel out of county, the metro is more important than anything else"

and they still feel that way.....

put 19 teams scheudles on the white board, put your district games up there.  any similar openings between teams and HE WOULD MAKE YOU PLAY EACH OTHER, no question.

it may not be the same now, but it has been like that for awhile now.....

 

[Pipe Dreams]

Interesting.

That's how East River finished 9-1. They avoided competition.

[dawgs]

10 minutes ago, Pipe Dreams said:

Interesting.

That's how East River finished 9-1. They avoided competition.

yes and no.

look at their district

windermere-new program winless

celebration-since the lyman staff left they have fallen back to old storm

liberty,

harmony,

st cloud, lake nona, the only legit teams that could win the district, besides east river.

the non dist games were timber creek(forfiet win, they lost the game and the points for the forfiet put them in the playoffs, harmony may have gotten in if not)

cypress creek-falls into the celebration and windermere category,

university-orlando, their best players the last 2 season have transferrred to east river, they too fall into cypress creek category

freedom-always a 3.4.5 win team.  not since andy johnson have they been good.

so what did ER do?  with all the non metro games, they were forced to pick up those bottom 3, they won them, as they should.

and to KRUNKs thoughts-they had zero category 1 win or even played a cat 1 game.  but they did win 8 of them on the field.  sure does make that new staff look like they know wtf they are doing!

 

heres a thought, make the category wins worth alot more than the category 3/4 wins.  i know its already like that, but make it really worth the while to schedule a tough team.  beat a 8-2 team and you deserve alot more points than beating 0-10 windermere.  not just 10,15 more.