Consolidate 1A-4A

[badbird]

8 hours ago, KeemD321 said:

Yea but look at what Trinity Christian is doing in 5A. They were unstoppable in 3A and would still be in that consolidated class besides this season they would lose to Chaminade. Yes Merritt Island Christian is private but they are no match for none of those teams in both of those consolidated classes. Atleast Cocoa Beach would put up points. MIC has only won about 2 or 3 games in the past 5 seasons combined

If we care about if teams are good or not then use gatorman's idea where we put the top 90 team in one class then the next best 90 in another and so on.  There are tons of schools that are no match for any good team in their class.  Merrit Island Christian couldn't compete in the Sac and probably should be independent.  I think they were last year and the only reason they are not is because they eliminated districts so they can still schedule whomever they want.  Trinity Christian dominated 3A for years now Chaminade will.    

[SPCjessica2004]

The issue I have with the setup and proposed setups is that they're based on student enrollment population. I'm going to call a spade a spade, we live in a world of backdoor recruiting.  Trinity Christian has less than 500 students, yet they have how many D-1 kids? Chaminade-Madonna goes from being the poster child of 1-9 teams making the playoffs and getting their butt kicked 3 years ago, to now a team with 9 power 5 division 1 guys. CCC has won how many regional championships in an area that is known for its parity among private schools?  It goes on at public schools just as much as private schools and you have to do it to compete these days. The FHSAA IMHO has turned a blind eye toward the issue since it's next to being uncontrollable.

Now, as I've pointed out in years past- for every Chaminade, Trinity there are 2-3 private schools wondering how they'll finish a 10 game season with 17 players total.  I think simply looking at reported numbers is a good way to start looking at grouping teams into classifications, but there has to be a better way of giving teams a chance to win without having machines in their face.  

We tend to treat high school football as college football, I'm guilty of it. We say things like "This team sucks" and "those guys suck" but the tone is far more than a neighborhood rivalry, we now have people reading maxpreps without ever seeing a team and determining their worth on message boards and declaring that other teams have no chance.  This is what high school football has become to most people, it's a business now.  Hey, I'm the first one to raise my hand btw- because I've said some nasty things about teams I've never seen.

Point is this, if we're going to to find a way to classify teams has to take into consideration more than population- it has to take into consideration all schools- not just your top 5 teams and break it up in a way that there's competition. So, it's probably got to have a formula that's part enrollment based, part success based.


 

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

The issue I have with the setup and proposed setups is that they're based on student enrollment population. I'm going to call a spade a spade, we live in a world of backdoor recruiting.  Trinity Christian has less than 500 students, yet they have how many D-1 kids? Chaminade-Madonna goes from being the poster child of 1-9 teams making the playoffs and getting their butt kicked 3 years ago, to now a team with 9 power 5 division 1 guys. CCC has won how many regional championships in an area that is known for its parity among private schools?  It goes on at public schools just as much as private schools and you have to do it to compete these days. The FHSAA IMHO has turned a blind eye toward the issue since it's next to being uncontrollable.

Now, as I've pointed out in years past- for every Chaminade, Trinity there are 2-3 private schools wondering how they'll finish a 10 game season with 17 players total.  I think simply looking at reported numbers is a good way to start looking at grouping teams into classifications, but there has to be a better way of giving teams a chance to win without having machines in their face.  

We tend to treat high school football as college football, I'm guilty of it. We say things like "This team sucks" and "those guys suck" but the tone is far more than a neighborhood rivalry, we now have people reading maxpreps without ever seeing a team and determining their worth on message boards and declaring that other teams have no chance.  This is what high school football has become to most people, it's a business now.  Hey, I'm the first one to raise my hand btw- because I've said some nasty things about teams I've never seen.

Point is this, if we're going to to find a way to classify teams has to take into consideration more than population- it has to take into consideration all schools- not just your top 5 teams and break it up in a way that there's competition. So, it's probably got to have a formula that's part enrollment based, part success based.


 

Absolutely

 

You have teams like colonial and cypress creek with over 3k students and even Ferguson with 4k students yet i would expect a team like Madison to beat them convincly

 

Some schools have loads of students yet couldn't beat a school 1/5th their size 

[SPCjessica2004]

38 minutes ago, badbird said:

Trinity Christian dominated 3A for years now Chaminade will.    

I couldn't disagree with you more. Chaminade is the best team this year and Oxbridge is right on their tail. You're only looking at the here and now and what's reported on message boards, you need to look at what's going on in the background.  Chaminade had to cash a lot of I-O-U's to afford the athletes on their roster. They need to win this year.

[SPCjessica2004]

Columbia,

I'll take a look!

3 minutes ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

 

[badbird]

1 hour ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

I couldn't disagree with you more. Chaminade is the best team this year and Oxbridge is right on their tail. You're only looking at the here and now and what's reported on message boards, you need to look at what's going on in the background.  Chaminade had to cash a lot of I-O-U's to afford the athletes on their roster. They need to win this year.

If it isn't them it will be another school that will dominate.  In the lower classes one or two schools load up ever year and another 4 or 5 load up but not near to the level of Oxbridge or Chaminade and then you have the rest of the schools that can't compete with any of the 6 or 7 schools and the 4 or 5 can't compete with the one or two.  Which is why we get blowout city in the playoffs.  Unfortunately it will never be fixed and we are wasting our time talking about it.  Sadly high school football in the lower classes is becoming very boring and uninteresting to me.  I use to love going to all the state title games.  I might attend 2 of the 8 now.  

[SPCjessica2004]

4 minutes ago, badbird said:

If it isn't them it will be another school that will dominate.  In the lower classes one or two schools load up ever year and another 4 or 5 load up but not near to the level of Oxbridge or Chaminade and then you have the rest of the schools that can't compete with any of the 6 or 7 schools and the 4 or 5 can't compete with the one or two.  Which is why we get blowout city in the playoffs.  Unfortunately it will never be fixed and we are wasting our time talking about it.  Sadly high school football in the lower classes is becoming very boring and uninteresting to me.  I use to love going to all the state title games.  I might attend 2 of the 8 now.  

Now, that I agree with 100%.   Class 3A usually has 2 national powerhouses, 2 really good teams that beat everyone else but can't beat the 2 national powerhouses and then a group of average to slightly above average football teams and then the merry minimums.

 

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

Point is this, if we're going to to find a way to classify teams has to take into consideration more than population- it has to take into consideration all schools- not just your top 5 teams and break it up in a way that there's competition. So, it's probably got to have a formula that's part enrollment based, part success based.


 

In the past, I have offered a rudimentary formula of this:
add 5% of current student population for each round that a team advances. 
subtract 10% for each year that that they don't make playoffs.
Use the last 4 years with 4 years ago counting .25, 3 years ago counting .5, 2 years ago counting .75, and last year counting 1

The goal is that good schools move up, bad schools move down, while still basing on some sort of population and success.
Also the FHSAA should use a 5 year average instead of one year snap shot for student populations, sometimes you will notice teams have wild fluctuations in terms of numbers. (Always lower in FHSAA redistricting years).

----------------
Ultimately, we want good district and playoff games. I just don't think the current system is set-up to do that (in any sport). I think a system where team success as well as student population, maybe roster size are more important factors would do a better service. 

 

[SPCjessica2004]

11 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

In the past, I have offered a rudimentary formula of this:
add 5% of current student population for each round that a team advances. 
subtract 10% for each year that that they don't make playoffs.
Use the last 4 years with 4 years ago counting .25, 3 years ago counting .5, 2 years ago counting .75, and last year counting 1

The goal is that good schools move up, bad schools move down, while still basing on some sort of population and success.
Also the FHSAA should use a 5 year average instead of one year snap shot for student populations, sometimes you will notice teams have wild fluctuations in terms of numbers. (Always lower in FHSAA redistricting years).

----------------
Ultimately, we want good district and playoff games. I just don't think the current system is set-up to do that (in any sport). I think a system where team success as well as student population, maybe roster size are more important factors would do a better service. 

 

I really like that concept. It allows teams to compete against teams with similar means while also keeping teams with similar success rates together.

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Also the FHSAA should use a 5 year average instead of one year snap shot for student populations, sometimes you will notice teams have wild fluctuations in terms of numbers. (Always lower in FHSAA redistricting years)

I'm sure this is 100% accurate 

 

Keep in mind there is a rule in place that if the school you attend doesn't have the sport you want to play you can have eligibility to a different school in your zone and play

 

So if a school is close they could technically have players in these schools and use them for athletic purposes 

 

Now I'm not saying i know any schools specifically who do that but saying it's possible 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

I really like that concept. It allows teams to compete against teams with similar means while also keeping teams with similar success rates together.

I have a similar idea only thing is i split them up differently then gatorman does

[blackmagic]

14 hours ago, badbird said:

so where is your cutoff?  800? 600?  or do we put them back with private schools who also have under 600.  If it is all about # of students then playing Trinity Christian with 428 students shouldn't be a concern.  I would rather play Cypress Creek with 3500 lol.  I don't think rural should be with private but I think that 650 number should be bumped up a bit to 800 to expand the number of teams.  

It is a concern if of the 428, 50 kids are hand picked into the school just to play football. But thats not the case for public schools.. I know you are trying to make a point but public and private are 2 different things.  There is no way a public 3500 student school should not be able to put a quality product on the field when a 200 student school can. 

I see it the other way. The 650 number should be bumped down. And the historically 1A school would be left in 1A...

[Dorsey Reaves]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:02 PM, badbird said:

because Trinity Christian should be in 3A.  they moved up to be in a district.  Isn't Merrit island Christian private?  Cocoa beach is public

Take the private schools out let them play each other then u don’t have small public schools make it to state and get destroyed by private school with kids from all over America on it that just happened to wind up Jacksonville 

[badbird]

41 minutes ago, Dorsey Reaves said:

Take the private schools out let them play each other then u don’t have small public schools make it to state and get destroyed by private school with kids from all over America on it that just happened to wind up Jacksonville 

i did see previous page

[s1nglewing]

The rural schools will have nothing to do with playing an urban recruit factory for a championship. That's why the rural 1A designation came about in the first place - much of what is now 1A were going to create their own association and drop FHSAA because they felt they couldn't compete (usually rightly so) with equivalently sized urban/private schools that could attract good players across high density population areas.

[badbird]

State Semi's

1A Closest game 18 points average margin of victory 19

2A Closest game 21 points average margin of victory 29.5

3A closest game 41 points average margin of victory 43.5

4A closest game 35 points average margin of victory 37.5

Overall Closest game 18 points average margin of victory 32.4

Well we might get a good game in the state finals but the playoffs have been sad

[gatorman-uf]

6 hours ago, badbird said:

State Semi's

1A Closest game 18 points average margin of victory 19

2A Closest game 21 points average margin of victory 29.5

3A closest game 41 points average margin of victory 43.5

4A closest game 35 points average margin of victory 37.5

Overall Closest game 18 points average margin of victory 32.4

Well we might get a good game in the state finals but the playoffs have been sad

But the new playoff system was supposed to fix this... i swear somebody has said this

[DisabledAccount]

10 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

But the new playoff system was supposed to fix this... i swear somebody has said this

It is 

 

Never said it would be immediate 

 

More changes have to come with it

 

 

And yes ik you already have a idea but biggest issue i have with it is you put every good team in 1 class which waters down the others 

 

 

I'm almost done with mine so I'll show you soon 

[badbird]

15 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

It is 

 

Never said it would be immediate 

 

More changes have to come with it

 

 

And yes ik you already have a idea but biggest issue i have with it is you put every good team in 1 class which waters down the others 

 

 

I'm almost done with mine so I'll show you soon 

it won't unless they cut the # of classes

[Cat_Scratch]

4A should be a good State title game. Raines looks pretty good, and Cocoa  has had their hands full a few times. I don't expect a blowout.