Analysis of point system with these playoffs

[Viperx]

If you say that the new @FHSAA point system hasn't worked, take a look at some of the state championship and state semifinal games we are going to have the next two weeks... incredible what we are getting here!

 

From Josh.
 

Is he saying the truth, or being misguided with this point system.

 

8A been really close with their games

7A looks about the same along with 6A.

5A had some good games.

4A to 1A looks like it needs to be combined a little.

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, Viperx said:

If you say that the new @FHSAA point system hasn't worked, take a look at some of the state championship and state semifinal games we are going to have the next two weeks... incredible what we are getting here!

 

From Josh.
 

Is he saying the truth, or being misguided with this point system.

 

8A been really close with their games

7A looks about the same along with 6A.

5A had some good games.

4A to 1A looks like it needs to be combined a little.

I think point system has given a breath of fresh air 

 

Sure not all the issues were fixed but we wouldn't have fixed any by keeping the old one 

 

I know a saying which makes sense in this situation

 

"if you do the same thing over and over and expect different results then you are a idiot"

 

Point is keeping previous system did nothing to help anything, at least this shows they trying to improve the quality of Florida football 

[Joshua Wilson]

44 minutes ago, Viperx said:

If you say that the new @FHSAA point system hasn't worked, take a look at some of the state championship and state semifinal games we are going to have the next two weeks... incredible what we are getting here!

 

From Josh.
 

Is he saying the truth, or being misguided with this point system.

 

8A been really close with their games

7A looks about the same along with 6A.

5A had some good games.

4A to 1A looks like it needs to be combined a little.

8A... outside of DP,  who had Wekiva, Atlantic and Miami High in the state semifinals? NO ONE!

7A... Bartram Trail was expected but a lot of people wrote Plant off early and well.... Aquinas and Venice... expected but look at some of the teams that got further than expected in the bracket.

6A... Seeing Northwestern back is impressive considering everyone thought Central would be back in Orlando. Naples... nice story for sure given what Irma did to the area. St. Augustine. No. 1 seed in the region for a reason. Armwood... nice bounce back, but I am not sure they have played as tough of a schedule to be ready for Orlando.

5A... West Florida and Baker County... say what? Did anyone see this coming? Baker County I saw a chance... West Florida... no didn't see it coming... Cardinal Gibbons made a statement in that game against AHP even if they lost.... Immokalee was underrated all season as I look at it... 

4A... not surprised besides Bradford making the run they did... everyone has Raines and Cocoa for the title game this year... 4A by far the weakest class.

3A... no surprises there... move along.

2A... not much to see here either...

1A... rematches in the state semifinals from last year, but not the same rematch in the title game, so a good thing.

[941football]

6 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I think point system has given a breath of fresh air 

 

Sure not all the issues were fixed but we wouldn't have fixed any by keeping the old one 

 

I know a saying which makes sense in this situation

 

"if you do the same thing over and over and expect different results then you are a idiot"

 

Point is keeping previous system did nothing to help anything, at least this shows they trying to improve the quality of Florida football 

"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"  Albert Einstein 

To the point the good teams will find a way to get in. Those same teams will also find a way to win. 

I don't much care which system is used. My biggest issue is 3 team districts. They simply put allow teams "in" that regularly should not. 

I'm sure travel and location have played a role in why these 3 team districts still exist. My question is if that's the case and a team from one makes a run, they will then still have to travel. 

[Zoe Boy]

6 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I think point system has given a breath of fresh air 

 

Sure not all the issues were fixed but we wouldn't have fixed any by keeping the old one 

 

I know a saying which makes sense in this situation

 

"if you do the same thing over and over and expect different results then you are a idiot"

 

Point is keeping previous system did nothing to help anything, at least this shows they trying to improve the quality of Florida football 

It’s called your crazy or insanity doing the same thing over n over again

[DisabledAccount]

19 minutes ago, Zoe Boy said:

It’s called your crazy or insanity doing the same thing over n over again

Lol

 

That was the one i was thinking of 

[DisabledAccount]

6 hours ago, Joshua Wilson said:

8A... outside of DP,  who had Wekiva, Atlantic and Miami High in the state semifinals? NO ONE!

7A... Bartram Trail was expected but a lot of people wrote Plant off early and well.... Aquinas and Venice... expected but look at some of the teams that got further than expected in the bracket.

6A... Seeing Northwestern back is impressive considering everyone thought Central would be back in Orlando. Naples... nice story for sure given what Irma did to the area. St. Augustine. No. 1 seed in the region for a reason. Armwood... nice bounce back, but I am not sure they have played as tough of a schedule to be ready for Orlando.

5A... West Florida and Baker County... say what? Did anyone see this coming? Baker County I saw a chance... West Florida... no didn't see it coming... Cardinal Gibbons made a statement in that game against AHP even if they lost.... Immokalee was underrated all season as I look at it... 

4A... not surprised besides Bradford making the run they did... everyone has Raines and Cocoa for the title game this year... 4A by far the weakest class.

3A... no surprises there... move along.

2A... not much to see here either...

1A... rematches in the state semifinals from last year, but not the same rematch in the title game, so a good thing.

Well to be fair i did put MNW as number 1 in 6a preseason

 

I did also call that TCA vs AHP would not happen in 2017

 

8a really is the best class overall in the state 

 

No other class potentially had 15+ contenders when we entered the playoffs

[FloTech]

40 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well to be fair i did put MNW as number 1 in 6a preseason

 

I did also call that TCA vs AHP would not happen in 2017

 

8a really is the best class overall in the state 

 

No other class potentially had 15+ contenders when we entered the playoffs

And guess what I predicted that Vero Beach would be a second or third rd loser and you all put them in states

[181pl]

The new system is mediocre at best. Could get a much better result by simply having larger districts and then seeding the teams. Why are there still 3 team districts? We still had a 6 loss Lincoln in the playoffs.  How do you avoid this? Bigger classes with bigger districts. We only need 4 large classes and 2 small classes. We don't need 8. If districts had a minimum of 7 teams there would never be bad teams in the playoffs. On top of that the fhsaa could seed the teams. The other way is to go to regions of 32 teams. Schools would have to play a minimum of 7 regional games. Top 8 teams in the region based on thsir regional record  make the playoffs. This would give teams more flexibility in scheduling. Could even seed the regional qualifiers based on votes from coaches, AD's, and principals.

[Joshua Wilson]

2 hours ago, 181pl said:

The new system is mediocre at best. Could get a much better result by simply having larger districts and then seeding the teams. Why are there still 3 team districts? We still had a 6 loss Lincoln in the playoffs.  How do you avoid this? Bigger classes with bigger districts. We only need 4 large classes and 2 small classes. We don't need 8. If districts had a minimum of 7 teams there would never be bad teams in the playoffs. On top of that the fhsaa could seed the teams. The other way is to go to regions of 32 teams. Schools would have to play a minimum of 7 regional games. Top 8 teams in the region based on thsir regional record  make the playoffs. This would give teams more flexibility in scheduling. Could even seed the regional qualifiers based on votes from coaches, AD's, and principals.

They could not reclassify since this was done midcycle. New districts will come in 2019. 

[badbird]

would the same teams be in the state finals and semifinals in the old system?  most likely they would have been because you aren't playing teams from different regions.  The state championship in 5A was played last night between AHP and Cardinal Gibbons.  Last year it would have been played in round 2.  The state championship in 6A was played two weeks ago vs Central and MNW.  At least this year we got to see MNW vs Carol City in round 3 instead of vs a down Mainland team this year (sorry Dan but they were down this year).  I'm fine with 5A-8A as long as we get rid of three team districts next cycle.  However in theory if the two best teams are in the same district they will still play in round 2 (best team will get the 1 seed, runner up will get the 5 seed) but since the point system is not really a representation of the best teams(football has so many factors you will never get it 100% right) you can get a Columbus vs Miami in round 3 instead of round 2.    1A-4A needs major changes to the point system and the number of teams in each class.

[941football]

Agreed first step get rid of any 3 team districts. 

The 1 vs 5 is also a good point. 

[Joshua Wilson]

17 minutes ago, badbird said:

would the same teams be in the state finals and semifinals in the old system?  most likely they would have been because you aren't playing teams from different regions.  The state championship in 5A was played last night between AHP and Cardinal Gibbons.  Last year it would have been played in round 2.  The state championship in 6A was played two weeks ago vs Central and MNW.  At least this year we got to see MNW vs Carol City in round 3 instead of vs a down Mainland team this year (sorry Dan but they were down this year).  I'm fine with 5A-8A as long as we get rid of three team districts next cycle.  However in theory if the two best teams are in the same district they will still play in round 2 (best team will get the 1 seed, runner up will get the 5 seed) but since the point system is not really a representation of the best teams(football has so many factors you will never get it 100% right) you can get a Columbus vs Miami in round 3 instead of round 2.    1A-4A needs major changes to the point system and the number of teams in each class.

Badbird... Baby Steps with changes! If they did everything all at once the FHSAA would have caught major hell for it. Next idea that has been floated by many is cross seeding brackets or do away with the regions and you just have a North bracket and South bracket with districts in the higher classes still with 8 districts on either side and in the lower classes with just a group of teams. We will never able to be seed 1-32 here. Our geography does not permit this. Otherwise you could be asking a team to go from Miami to Pensacola or vice versa in the first round.

[badbird]

1 hour ago, Joshua Wilson said:

Badbird... Baby Steps with changes! If they did everything all at once the FHSAA would have caught major hell for it. Next idea that has been floated by many is cross seeding brackets or do away with the regions and you just have a North bracket and South bracket with districts in the higher classes still with 8 districts on either side and in the lower classes with just a group of teams. We will never able to be seed 1-32 here. Our geography does not permit this. Otherwise you could be asking a team to go from Miami to Pensacola or vice versa in the first round.

I never said cross seed.  I was just pointing out there wouldn't have been much difference unless they did.  It would be nice if they did it in Region 1/2 and region 3/4 however there would still probably be way too much travel.  Panhandle to Orlando is quite a trip for a first round game where you are going to probably lose by 40.  I have never really seen that as a viable option but if the FHSAA does then good for them.  There will never be a perfect system.  I like the point system 5A-8A over the old system.  

I would prefer bigger districts 3 districts per regions and a combination of the old and new where district champ and runner up get in and then 2 wild cards plus seed them with a point system.  Or cut the classes from 8 to 6 then you would have bigger districts and take the champs and the last 4 as wild cards.  Unfortunately I don't see classes ever getting cut for lots of reasons so I'm for the first one.

As far as seeding goes I'm not sure of the answer.  I know coaches wanted district champs #1-4 seed but is it best for the product on the field? As I look at what happened there would have been some district champs as lower seeds than their district runner up.  For example Bishop Moore had more points than Jones and Jones drilled Bishop Moore on the field.  Should Bishop Moore have been a higher seed than Jones?  I don't think so but if you use points they would have been.    Then I look at MNW and Miami Central if you would have just went by points in that region MNW would have been the 1 seed and Central the 2 seed and they would have played this week instead of last week.  I don't know the answer and not sure there is one.  

 

1A-4A has major issues. I think we can all agree with that.

[181pl]

This is all easily identified through the student population report. Come up with 4 large classes of about 120 teams each. The geography will work itself out. If you get rid of districts and have regions, it would give teams more travel flexibility.

[badbird]

32 minutes ago, badbird said:

 

[badbird]

9 minutes ago, 181pl said:

This is all easily identified through the student population report. Come up with 4 large classes of about 120 teams each. The geography will work itself out. If you get rid of districts and have regions, it would give teams more travel flexibility.

when you say get rid of districts and have regions are you suggesting they play each other in that region or just use a point system to determine who makes it and you can play what ever team you want?

[DisabledAccount]

31 minutes ago, 181pl said:

This is all easily identified through the student population report. Come up with 4 large classes of about 120 teams each. The geography will work itself out. If you get rid of districts and have regions, it would give teams more travel flexibility.

The large schools voted against getting rid of districts otherwise we would have no districts right now 

[badbird]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

The large schools voted against getting rid of districts otherwise we would have no districts right now 

thank God

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, badbird said:

thank God

So yes had they not voted against it we would have what 1-4a have across the board in all classes 

[181pl]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

when you say get rid of districts and have regions are you suggesting they play each other in that region or just use a point system to determine who makes it and you can play what ever team you want?

Have 32-teams region. Requirement of playing at least 7 teams in your region. Top 8 teams make it, based on how they did in the region. You can then seed them based on their records, points, or by votes from coaches, ADs, and Principals. 

[badbird]

9 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Have 32-teams region. Requirement of playing at least 7 teams in your region. Top 8 teams make it, based on how they did in the region. You can then seed them based on their records, points, or by votes from coaches, ADs, and Principals. 

you would have to draw on what teams you play or the bad teams would play the bad teams

[181pl]

No. You just make a schedule. Your schedule must consist of at least seven teams from your region. You could schedule more if you wanted. Whoever has the best record gets in. You could have the top eight make it. You could also go to sub-regions or super districts and have 16 teams. Same logic would apply. That would keep it a little more Geographic. Top four would make it out of those 16.

[DarterBlue2]

21 hours ago, 181pl said:

The new system is mediocre at best. Could get a much better result by simply having larger districts and then seeding the teams. Why are there still 3 team districts? We still had a 6 loss Lincoln in the playoffs.  How do you avoid this? Bigger classes with bigger districts. We only need 4 large classes and 2 small classes. We don't need 8. If districts had a minimum of 7 teams there would never be bad teams in the playoffs. On top of that the fhsaa could seed the teams. The other way is to go to regions of 32 teams. Schools would have to play a minimum of 7 regional games. Top 8 teams in the region based on thsir regional record  make the playoffs. This would give teams more flexibility in scheduling. Could even seed the regional qualifiers based on votes from coaches, AD's, and principals.

Agree with all of the above except the 32 team Region idea. I prefer keeping districts to that.  I also do think District minimums could be 6 teams and not 7, though. That would give some scheduling flexibility for non traditional or out of state opponents plus a non district rivalry game or two. 

[De Cleater]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:10 AM, Joshua Wilson said:

8A... outside of DP,  who had Wekiva, Atlantic and Miami High in the state semifinals? NO ONE!

7A... Bartram Trail was expected but a lot of people wrote Plant off early and well.... Aquinas and Venice... expected but look at some of the teams that got further than expected in the bracket.

6A... Seeing Northwestern back is impressive considering everyone thought Central would be back in Orlando. Naples... nice story for sure given what Irma did to the area. St. Augustine. No. 1 seed in the region for a reason. Armwood... nice bounce back, but I am not sure they have played as tough of a schedule to be ready for Orlando.

5A... West Florida and Baker County... say what? Did anyone see this coming? Baker County I saw a chance... West Florida... no didn't see it coming... Cardinal Gibbons made a statement in that game against AHP even if they lost.... Immokalee was underrated all season as I look at it... 

4A... not surprised besides Bradford making the run they did... everyone has Raines and Cocoa for the title game this year... 4A by far the weakest class.

3A... no surprises there... move along.

2A... not much to see here either...

1A... rematches in the state semifinals from last year, but not the same rematch in the title game, so a good thing.

Please explain to me how the new point system created matchups that the old system did not. 

 

Josh you tweeted this weekend how excited you were that the new system has created some great semifinal and state championship matchups.  My question is which ones did it create that the old system wouldn't have created?