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Opinions Needed-Breakdown of State Title Winners


OldSchoolLion

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I think you'll find this very interesting and would like your opinions of the questions I developed based on the data.  Below is a breakdown of all schools in Florida that have won 3 or more state titles.

Questions

What happened to the Tallahassee schools-no state titles since 2012?

Pensacola schools were always represented well in the state finals of the larger classes in  the 1970's, 80's and 90''s.  All of the following schools made appearances during that time: Pine Forest, Rutherford, Washington, Fort Walton Beach, Escambia, Woodham, Tate, Niceville, Choctawhatchee, Bay, Milton, Mosley.  Between 1980-1991, 10 of 24 4A and 5A titles were won by Pensacola area schools.  Since 2000, Pensacola schools have been represented in the larger school finals only a handful of times, and only Pensacola High has won a championship(2009).  What happened?

None of the Jacksonville public schools are on the list.  Does their talent get diluted by the private school powerhouses there?  Other reasons why they have had limited success?

None of the larger schools in Orlando are represented on the list.  Other than running into the south Florida powerhouses in the playoffs, any reason why?

There are a number of mature, private school programs in the Tampa area. Recognizing they have access to a rich talent pool and a potential advantage over public schools, why are they not represented?

In the 1980's and 1990's, the Sarasota/Bradenton area was a hotbed of high school football (Manatee, Southeast, Riverview) and most years 1 or 2 of those teams were playing for a state championship in the bigger classes.  The success tailed off in the late 1990's. What happened?

Over the years, Polk County has produced many strong teams that often made deep runs in to the playoffs (Bartow, Fort Meade,  Kathleen, Lakeland, Lake Gibson). There has been a noticeable tapering off of success this decade.  What happened?

 

BIG SCHOOLS

Breakdown:

South-37

Central-21

North-14

Public-58

Private-14

 

Schools/# of state titles:

St Thomas Aquinas-10

Lakeland-6

Manatee-5

Miami Central-5

Carol City-5

Northwestern-5

American Heritage (Plantation)-4

Plant-4

Coral Gables-4

Godby-4

Suwanee-4

Miami Central-4

Bartow-3

Lincoln-3

Pine Forest-3

Merritt Island-3

 

 

SMALL SCHOOLS

Breakdown:

South-37

Central-7

North-34

Public-48

Private-40

 

Schools/# of state titles:

Bolles-11

University Christian-9

Trinity Christian-7

Pahokee-7

Glades Day-7

Glades Central-6

Jefferson County-6

Booker T Washington-5

Cocoa-4

FAMU-4

Baker-4

Chaminade-Madonna-3

American Heritage (Delray)-3

Frostproof-3

Blountstown-3

Port St Joe-3

Union County-3

 

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18 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

None of the Jacksonville public schools are on the list.  Does their talent get diluted by the private school powerhouses there?  Other reasons why they have had limited success?

Regarding Jacksonville public schools, I think it's a combination of the good privates taking talent and, also, coaching. It is interesting to note that St. John's County, which is a southern suburb of Jacksonville, has done better with their public schools than Duval over the last 20 years. 

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20 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

None of the larger schools in Orlando are represented on the list.  Other than running into the south Florida powerhouses in the playoffs, any reason why?

Apopka should be represented as they have 3 championships. Regarding the Orlando public schools, for the most part, till the 2000's Orlando large school football was not very good. Yes, Evans won half a title in 1991 and made it to another semi final. And Winter Park did make two semis in the 1980's and Oviedo made one. But, overall, Orlando area public school football was not good. 

Since 2000, the Orlando area has been well represented in the title game. Unfortunately, in the earlier part of the 2000's the area teams ran into the North Dade urban schools in the finals (Northwestern, Central, Carol City, Norland), and had a hard time beating them. (Edgewater lost three in a row from 2002 to 2004.) From 2012 on the Orlando area has won 3 of 6, 8A finals. So, with the better North Dade teams playing in 6A, Orlando has held its own. 

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19 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Regarding Jacksonville public schools, I think it's a combination of the good privates taking talent and, also, coaching. It is interesting to note that St. John's County, which is a southern suburb of Jacksonville, has done better with their public schools than Duval over the last 20 years. 

Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me.  Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids.  Despite a number of private school options in south Florida,  the public schools in Miami have always attracted a lot of talent and the results show. Have often wondered why Jacksonville has not mirrored Miami in terms of results.

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29 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

A slight correction. Apopka has won three state titles: 2001 vs Northwestern, 2012 vs Cypress Bay and 2014 vs Columbus.

 So one Orlando area big school should be on your list above. 

Hard for me to get into my thick skull that Apopka is part of Orlando.  I spent time in Apopka as a kid MANY years ago and there was nothing there.  That is imprinted on my brain, like Apopka is a distinct locale.  I know the high school has been around for a long time, but I don't remember hearing too much about football there before 2000.

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3 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Hard for me to get into my thick skull that Apopka is part of Orlando.  I spent time in Apopka as a kid MANY years ago and there was nothing there.  That is imprinted on my brain, like Apopka is a distinct locale.  I know the high school has been around for a long time, but I don't remember hearing too much about football there before 2000.

Apopka had good area teams between the mid 1980's and 1994 during the Chip Gierke years as head coach. However, aside from losing a semifinal to Manatee in 1993, never made a big playoff run. After Darlington took over in 1999, the program has consistently been among the best in the greater Orlando area.

Before Orlando became a major urban area, Apopka was an isolated, small town. However, as Orlando has expanded, it now an extension of Orlando. Apopka is an interesting area. It has aspects of a small town, a suburb of a large city, and also has what you would characterize as inner city portions to it. 

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As far as the Tampa schools go  I really don't  understand the lack of success outside pf Plant. My alma mater Armwood is a paper tiger every year it seems and the drop off from there is ridiculous. Every year you have a team (TB Tech this year) that looks like they are ready to step up but always fall short.  There is plenty of talent but nobody seems to be able to get anything out of it.

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1 hour ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Regarding Jacksonville public schools, I think it's a combination of the good privates taking talent and, also, coaching. It is interesting to note that St. John's County, which is a southern suburb of Jacksonville, has done better with their public schools than Duval over the last 20 years. 

Coaching and lack of administration support hurt duval publics 

 

No consistency 

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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me.  Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids.  Despite a number of private school options in south Florida,  the public schools in Miami have always attracted a lot of talent and the results show. Have often wondered why Jacksonville has not mirrored Miami in terms of results.

Coaching and administration support are non existent at most schools in duval 

 

I hear a lot about jax schools that i cant confirm but if true i see why the big school publics haven't won anything 

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6 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me.  Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids.  Despite a number of private school options in south Florida,  the public schools in Miami have always attracted a lot of talent and the results show. Have often wondered why Jacksonville has not mirrored Miami in terms of results.

Jacksonville has lacked coaching and administrative support as has been posted. And Jacksonville is a big city but is no where the size of Miami. Miami is almost triple the size in population. 

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27 minutes ago, smashmouth80 said:

Jacksonville has lacked coaching and administrative support as has been posted. And Jacksonville is a big city but is no where the size of Miami. Miami is almost triple the size in population. 

Concerning population, check out this link, Smashmouth.   Jacksonville actually dwarfs Miami, and there are numerous other sources which state the same.  It's surprising, isn't it?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/florida-population/cities/

 

Am wondering 

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11 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Concerning population, check out this link, Smashmouth.   Jacksonville actually dwarfs Miami, and there are numerous other sources which state the same.  It's surprising, isn't it?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/florida-population/cities/

 

Am wondering 

City limits yes but Miami Dade County is deeper than duval county bc Miami Dade more spread then city limits of Miami 

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37 minutes ago, s1nglewing said:

I see the confusion now.  When I made the following statement, I was considering just the cities themselves, and not all of Duval or Dade County.

"Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me.  Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids."

So, I wasn't even thinking of schools like Southridge, Central, Killian, South Dade and Norland, who are not within Miami city limits. I was thinking of Northwestern and Booker T Washington.   Going back to my initial point, how has Miami been able to take a bunch of inner city kids in public schools and create a couple of national powerhouses, but Jacksonville has not?

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10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I see the confusion now.  When I made the following statement, I was considering just the cities themselves, and not all of Duval or Dade County.

"Jacksonville has always been an enigma for me.  Like Miami, it 's a huge area with a huge population, including a significant amount of inner city kids."

So, I wasn't even thinking of schools like Southridge, Central, Killian, South Dade and Norland, who are not within Miami city limits. I was thinking of Northwestern and Booker T Washington.   Going back to my initial point, how has Miami been able to take a bunch of inner city kids in public schools and create a couple of national powerhouses, but Jacksonville has not?

Bc Jacksonville is a administration and coaching train wreck 

 

The administration at those schools don't know how to operate a football team and from what i hear the coaches even let star players skip practice bc they don't want to risk players transferring 

 

No discipline or authority at some those schools and results speak for themselves 

 

The few schools who actually have coaching (Trinity, bolles,  raines) win championships 

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4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Bc Jacksonville is a administration and coaching train wreck 

 

The administration at those schools don't know how to operate a football team and from what i hear the coaches even let star players skip practice bc they don't want to risk players transferring 

 

No discipline or authority at some those schools and results speak for themselves 

 

The few schools who actually have coaching (Trinity, bolles,  raines) win championships 

That might explain why so much talent goes to the private schools in Jacksonville, ie searching for good coaching/structure and a program where they can get recognized.  I have always thought it odd that in the Jacksonville area, the private schools get the press in football and in Dade County it's the opposite, with public schools having the vast majority of the success.

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Another area is North Central Florida (Ocala to the Gulf, North to Lake City to where ever you want to stop Tallahassee)...

  1. 1978-Dunnellon
  2. 1979-Dunnellon
  3. 1980-Gainesville
  4. 1981-Palatka
  5. 1982-Lafayette (Mayo)
  6. 1983-Palatka (runner-up)
  7. 1985-Bradford (runner-up)
  8. 1987-Suwannee
  9. 1988-Suwannee
  10. 1988-Williston (runner-up)
  11. 1989-Suwannee
  12. 1990-Buchholz
  13. 1990-Suwannee
  14. 1991-Santa Fe
  15. 1992-Newberry (runner-up)
  16. 1994-Santa Fe
  17. 1994-Vanguard (runner-up)
  18. 1994-Union County
  19. 1995-Union County
  20. 1996-Union County
  21. 1997-Chiefland
  22. 1997-Columbia (runner-up)
  23. 1997-Taylor County (Perry)

23 representatives in a 20 year period. 17 state championships, 6 runner-ups

  1. 1998-Madison County (runner-up)
  2. 1999-Suwannee (runner-up)
  3. 2001-Madison County
  4. 2003-Madison County (runner-up)
  5. 2004-Union County (runner-up)
  6. 2005-Trinity Catholic
  7. 2006-Trinity Catholic (runner-up)
  8. 2007-Madison County
  9. 2008-Newberry (runner-up)
  10. 2010-Trinity Catholic
  11. 2011-Madison County (runner-up)
  12. 2012-Trenton (runner-up)
  13. 2012-Gainesville (runner-up)
  14. 2012-Madison County (runner-up)
  15. 2013-Trenton 
  16. 2014-Hamilton County (runner-up)
  17. 2015-Trenton
  18. 2017-Madison County

18 representatives in a 20 year period and 5 of them coming from the new 1A rural classification where half the teams are in the North Central Florida area. 7 state championships with 11 runner-ups and Madison County and Trinity Catholic having 5 of the state titles.

Part of the biggest reasons why is the growth of Florida in weird and different ways. If you look at Orlando, Palm Beach, Broward, and Tampa these areas have large growth but the transients didn't join football in large numbers. As a result different attitudes relating to football, no history, no tradition, no joining of youth leagues, no coaching connections to the communities, because there isn't a community to connect to. 


 

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6 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Another area is North Central Florida (Ocala to the Gulf, North to Lake City to where ever you want to stop Tallahassee)...

  1. 1978-Dunnellon
  2. 1979-Dunnellon
  3. 1980-Gainesville
  4. 1981-Palatka
  5. 1982-Lafayette (Mayo)
  6. 1983-Palatka (runner-up)
  7. 1985-Bradford (runner-up)
  8. 1987-Suwannee
  9. 1988-Suwannee
  10. 1988-Williston (runner-up)
  11. 1989-Suwannee
  12. 1990-Buchholz
  13. 1990-Suwannee
  14. 1991-Santa Fe
  15. 1992-Newberry (runner-up)
  16. 1994-Santa Fe
  17. 1994-Vanguard (runner-up)
  18. 1994-Union County
  19. 1995-Union County
  20. 1996-Union County
  21. 1997-Chiefland
  22. 1997-Columbia (runner-up)
  23. 1997-Taylor County (Perry)

23 representatives in a 20 year period. 17 state championships, 6 runner-ups

  1. 1998-Madison County (runner-up)
  2. 1999-Suwannee (runner-up)
  3. 2001-Madison County
  4. 2003-Madison County (runner-up)
  5. 2004-Union County (runner-up)
  6. 2005-Trinity Catholic
  7. 2006-Trinity Catholic (runner-up)
  8. 2007-Madison County
  9. 2008-Newberry (runner-up)
  10. 2010-Trinity Catholic
  11. 2011-Madison County (runner-up)
  12. 2012-Trenton (runner-up)
  13. 2012-Gainesville (runner-up)
  14. 2012-Madison County (runner-up)
  15. 2013-Trenton 
  16. 2014-Hamilton County (runner-up)
  17. 2015-Trenton
  18. 2017-Madison County

18 representatives in a 20 year period and 5 of them coming from the new 1A rural classification where half the teams are in the North Central Florida area. 7 state championships with 11 runner-ups and Madison County and Trinity Catholic having 5 of the state titles.

Part of the biggest reasons why is the growth of Florida in weird and different ways. If you look at Orlando, Palm Beach, Broward, and Tampa these areas have large growth but the transients didn't join football in large numbers. As a result different attitudes relating to football, no history, no tradition, no joining of youth leagues, no coaching connections to the communities, because there isn't a community to connect to. 


 

We have community connection but our fans have become spoiled and fair weathered

 

I regularly have our "fans" say we will go 5-5 and lose to teams like Gainesville LMAO 

 

Besides I've fed up with most of our "football" fans at Columbia 

 

I'll stick to spring sports, the baseball and softball fans aren't such pessimists 

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10 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Another area is North Central Florida (Ocala to the Gulf, North to Lake City to where ever you want to stop Tallahassee)...

  1. 1978-Dunnellon
  2. 1979-Dunnellon
  3. 1980-Gainesville
  4. 1981-Palatka
  5. 1982-Lafayette (Mayo)
  6. 1983-Palatka (runner-up)
  7. 1985-Bradford (runner-up)
  8. 1987-Suwannee
  9. 1988-Suwannee
  10. 1988-Williston (runner-up)
  11. 1989-Suwannee
  12. 1990-Buchholz
  13. 1990-Suwannee
  14. 1991-Santa Fe
  15. 1992-Newberry (runner-up)
  16. 1994-Santa Fe
  17. 1994-Vanguard (runner-up)
  18. 1994-Union County
  19. 1995-Union County
  20. 1996-Union County
  21. 1997-Chiefland
  22. 1997-Columbia (runner-up)
  23. 1997-Taylor County (Perry)

23 representatives in a 20 year period. 17 state championships, 6 runner-ups

  1. 1998-Madison County (runner-up)
  2. 1999-Suwannee (runner-up)
  3. 2001-Madison County
  4. 2003-Madison County (runner-up)
  5. 2004-Union County (runner-up)
  6. 2005-Trinity Catholic
  7. 2006-Trinity Catholic (runner-up)
  8. 2007-Madison County
  9. 2008-Newberry (runner-up)
  10. 2010-Trinity Catholic
  11. 2011-Madison County (runner-up)
  12. 2012-Trenton (runner-up)
  13. 2012-Gainesville (runner-up)
  14. 2012-Madison County (runner-up)
  15. 2013-Trenton 
  16. 2014-Hamilton County (runner-up)
  17. 2015-Trenton
  18. 2017-Madison County

18 representatives in a 20 year period and 5 of them coming from the new 1A rural classification where half the teams are in the North Central Florida area. 7 state championships with 11 runner-ups and Madison County and Trinity Catholic having 5 of the state titles.

Part of the biggest reasons why is the growth of Florida in weird and different ways. If you look at Orlando, Palm Beach, Broward, and Tampa these areas have large growth but the transients didn't join football in large numbers. As a result different attitudes relating to football, no history, no tradition, no joining of youth leagues, no coaching connections to the communities, because there isn't a community to connect to. 


 

Its incredible that a team like Suwannee went to bottom so quickly 

 

It's a shame Columbia vs Suwannee rivalry has more fight in it during spring then fall 

 

 

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ColumbiaFan,

Football, size of school matters more than any other sport. You need 22 guys at least, plus numerous subs, while there is diminishing rewards for being a huge school in football. Size still matters and Columbia has the size.

In sports like Basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball, size of the school matters a lot less. The number of players needed to be successful is a lot less. As a result, a school like Suwannee can be more competitive with a school like Columbia. It isn't to say that size doesn't matter, but it has less of an effect. 

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29 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

ColumbiaFan,

Football, size of school matters more than any other sport. You need 22 guys at least, plus numerous subs, while there is diminishing rewards for being a huge school in football. Size still matters and Columbia has the size.

In sports like Basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball, size of the school matters a lot less. The number of players needed to be successful is a lot less. As a result, a school like Suwannee can be more competitive with a school like Columbia. It isn't to say that size doesn't matter, but it has less of an effect. 

Ik that but Suwanee used to compete with us yet we have always been larger,  even in Suwannee's best years (2014 they went 12-2) and us in a down year (8-3 in 2014) we still dominate Suwannee  (2014 won by nearly 20)

 

I'm having doubts if this rivarly (at least in football) will ever be competitive Again

 

Lately I've gotten more up for our games with Gainesville then Suwannee and i feel Gainesville has been a more important rivarly lately 

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2 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Another area is North Central Florida (Ocala to the Gulf, North to Lake City to where ever you want to stop Tallahassee)...

  1. 1978-Dunnellon
  2. 1979-Dunnellon
  3. 1980-Gainesville
  4. 1981-Palatka
  5. 1982-Lafayette (Mayo)
  6. 1983-Palatka (runner-up)
  7. 1985-Bradford (runner-up)
  8. 1987-Suwannee
  9. 1988-Suwannee
  10. 1988-Williston (runner-up)
  11. 1989-Suwannee
  12. 1990-Buchholz
  13. 1990-Suwannee
  14. 1991-Santa Fe
  15. 1992-Newberry (runner-up)
  16. 1994-Santa Fe
  17. 1994-Vanguard (runner-up)
  18. 1994-Union County
  19. 1995-Union County
  20. 1996-Union County
  21. 1997-Chiefland
  22. 1997-Columbia (runner-up)
  23. 1997-Taylor County (Perry)

23 representatives in a 20 year period. 17 state championships, 6 runner-ups

  1. 1998-Madison County (runner-up)
  2. 1999-Suwannee (runner-up)
  3. 2001-Madison County
  4. 2003-Madison County (runner-up)
  5. 2004-Union County (runner-up)
  6. 2005-Trinity Catholic
  7. 2006-Trinity Catholic (runner-up)
  8. 2007-Madison County
  9. 2008-Newberry (runner-up)
  10. 2010-Trinity Catholic
  11. 2011-Madison County (runner-up)
  12. 2012-Trenton (runner-up)
  13. 2012-Gainesville (runner-up)
  14. 2012-Madison County (runner-up)
  15. 2013-Trenton 
  16. 2014-Hamilton County (runner-up)
  17. 2015-Trenton
  18. 2017-Madison County

18 representatives in a 20 year period and 5 of them coming from the new 1A rural classification where half the teams are in the North Central Florida area. 7 state championships with 11 runner-ups and Madison County and Trinity Catholic having 5 of the state titles.

Part of the biggest reasons why is the growth of Florida in weird and different ways. If you look at Orlando, Palm Beach, Broward, and Tampa these areas have large growth but the transients didn't join football in large numbers. As a result different attitudes relating to football, no history, no tradition, no joining of youth leagues, no coaching connections to the communities, because there isn't a community to connect to. 


 

...great comment above.

...concerning 1985-2000.

Between 1970-1885, Florida had 4 classes, things were quite stable, and there was a lot of parity in the classes.  You typically didn't see a lot of blowouts late in the playoffs.  I think 1986 was a very pivotal year in high school football because we went to 5 classes and you started seeing much more movement of teams from class to class. 

That is when some good teams left 3A, ie Bartow and Godby, leaving 3A a relatively weak class.  Madison County was playing up in 4A!  This may be part of the reason Suwanee was able to dominate the way they did for a time in 3A.  But as quickly as that window opened up, it closed for a few years in the early 90's when 3A became strong again with teams like Bolles coming in.  In 1994, once again there a big exodus of good teams from 3A, ie Bolles, Glades Central, Lakes Wales, South Sumter.  3A became a relatively weak class again and that may be part of the reason Union County dominated the way they did for a few years.  ...yet more movement in the late 90's with strong teams like Bolles and Glades Central coming back to 3A.

I offer this as an example of the ever-changing landscape that was taking place then and that has continued through today.  I can see where programs like Suwanee and Union County could have great success for a time, creating great expectations, and then lose momentum when a classification has a slug of very strong teams come in.  

After 1985, I think we started losing some rivalries with all of the movement that started taking place in the classes.  And as soon as you started developing a new rivalry, oops, things change again.  As a kid, you watched your big brother play in that rivalry game and you couldn't wait to get your shot at that team you hated so much.  We evolved to a point where it seemed you never knew who you might be playing year-to-year.  I can see where some communities lost interest when their team started playing against teams they had never heard of.   And without districts now in the lower classes, the situation is probably even worse, with the better teams having to play whoever they can manage to get.  

 

 

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