Fun Fact about Vero

[FloTech]

Up on our scoreboard we have the years when Vero appeared in the final four and I noticed that mostly in the 80s is when we made it and in the 90s we sporadically went not as consistent as the 80s.....But I also noticed that the last time we made a final four was in 1998 and I'm like wow it's 2018 meaning if we don't get past the regional finals this year then it will be over TWO decades that we haven't gone.....i think our program needs to focus SERIOUSLY on deep playoff runs instead of trying to count regular season wins, two decades two decades smh 

[DarterBlue2]

1 hour ago, FloTech said:

Up on our scoreboard we have the years when Vero appeared in the final four and I noticed that mostly in the 80s is when we made it and in the 90s we sporadically went not as consistent as the 80s.....But I also noticed that the last time we made a final four was in 1998 and I'm like wow it's 2018 meaning if we don't get past the regional finals this year then it will be over TWO decades that we haven't gone.....i think our program needs to focus SERIOUSLY on deep playoff runs instead of trying to count regular season wins, two decades two decades smh 

There are programs as old as Vero's that have never made a final four. At least VB is a perennial playoff team. 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, FloTech said:

Up on our scoreboard we have the years when Vero appeared in the final four and I noticed that mostly in the 80s is when we made it and in the 90s we sporadically went not as consistent as the 80s.....But I also noticed that the last time we made a final four was in 1998 and I'm like wow it's 2018 meaning if we don't get past the regional finals this year then it will be over TWO decades that we haven't gone.....i think our program needs to focus SERIOUSLY on deep playoff runs instead of trying to count regular season wins, two decades two decades smh 

That is a really good observation.  In some way, I think tradition plays a part.  Back in the 80's, Vero had a reputation as a really strong program.  The playoff paths ran differently then...more challenging.  They played some really tough teams, and even when they got knocked out, they were always very competitive.  That probably bred a lot of confidence and high expectations, which was good for the next season's team, ie "We can do this."

At some point, it is as if Vero lost its confidence.  ...a self-fulfilling prophecy.  "Of course we got knocked out in the first round, we always do."  If Vero can make some consistent playoff runs for a few years and build on that momentum, I really think it could change things.  Playing tougher teams during the seasons, even if they lose, will build confidence.    

 

[FloTech]

10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

That is a really good observation.  In some way, I think tradition plays a part.  Back in the 80's, Vero had a reputation as a really strong program.  The playoff paths ran differently then...more challenging.  They played some really tough teams, and even when they got knocked out, they were always very competitive.  That probably bred a lot of confidence and high expectations, which was good for the next season's team, ie "We can do this."

At some point, it is as if Vero lost its confidence.  ...a self-fulfilling prophecy.  "Of course we got knocked out in the first round, we always do."  If Vero can make some consistent playoff runs for a few years and build on that momentum, I really think it could change things.  Playing tougher teams during the seasons, even if they lose, will build confidence.    

 

We barely made the regional finals in 2016 only because Osceola gave Treasure Coast that game if Osceola woulda beat Treasure coast  then I think Vero would have took a loss in the second round 

[FloTech]

41 minutes ago, DarterBlue2 said:

There are programs as old as Vero's that have never made a final four. At least VB is a perennial playoff team. 

Some teams yea y'all pick on Columbia but atleast they been to the final four recently most of the old school teams have made it some even have titles from before fhsaa but Vero did have a consistent run the 80s like I said

[OldSchoolLion]

35 minutes ago, FloTech said:

Some teams yea y'all pick on Columbia but atleast they been to the final four recently most of the old school teams have made it some even have titles from before fhsaa but Vero did have a consistent run the 80s like I said

There are some older programs who have never one a single playoff game!  Teams like Vero and Columbia have MUCH to be proud of...rich histories and lots of winning.  

[DisabledAccount]

16 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There are some older programs who have never one a single playoff game!  Teams like Vero and Columbia have MUCH to be proud of...rich histories and lots of winning.  

I think it has a lot to with reputation 

 

Yes there are a lot of teams who would trade places with a columbia or a Vero Beach but those programs because of their history hold themselves to a higher standard and just making the playoffs isn't enough for those programs 

 

They want to be getting to and winning championships to satisfy themselves which has been a while for both programs 

 

Once you raise the bar you always want to exceed it and take your success to the next level 

[Proseteye]

I believe there are close to 700 high schools in the state that have football teams. Of those 700 how many have never been to a playoff game? How many have never had a winning season? How many have ever played in or won a championship game? I would think it would be less than 5% and maybe lower than that. In the last few years if a team had only homegrown players and did not encourage transfers, they didn't have a prayer of competing against teams that had half a dozen to a dozen transfers in every season. If you stop and think that one or possibly two D-1 type players can make the difference in winning and losing for a small to medium sized school. Case in fact is CJ Spiller of Union County. One D-1 player made them one of the top teams in the state. Without CJ they may have been a 5-5 team.  In my estimation what I think we're allowing to happen is teams being built through college style recruiting. No one wants to admit it. But, that's what it is. The schools that encourage unbridled recruiting are successful due to that recruiting. They are not successful, in most cases, due to their homegrown talent. In a lot of cases they are not even successful due to their coaching. Anybody can gather a dozen D-1 players and be successful most of the time. Don't even really have to know that much about the game to coach them. I just feel that this unlimited transferring that is going on just to play football is very detrimental to the game of football at the high school level. Can we not just allow these HS players to play the game, for the pure satisfaction of playing and for team comradeship, instead of building farm teams for colleges with hired guns?

[FloTech]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There are some older programs who have never one a single playoff game!  Teams like Vero and Columbia have MUCH to be proud of...rich histories and lots of winning.  

What I'm trying to get at is the fact that we need to turn the corner as a program not lose in the first or second round and make the regional finals every so often you all are missing the point the drought is real right now two decades two decades remember that 

[OldSchoolLion]

16 minutes ago, FloTech said:

What I'm trying to get at is the fact that we need to turn the corner as a program not lose in the first or second round and make the regional finals every so often you all are missing the point the drought is real right now two decades two decades remember that 

I heard you FloTech.  Just trying to be nice and make you feel a little better.  

[FloTech]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I heard you FloTech.  Just trying to be nice and make you feel a little better.  

You kool u usually tell the truth 

[OldSchoolLion]

52 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Also a correct observation but there is something else I want you all to see with the statistics 

 

Since 2000 football has missed the playoffs only 3 times

 

But look at how close softball is in the playoff win column 

 

4 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I believe there are close to 700 high schools in the state that have football teams. Of those 700 how many have never been to a playoff game? How many have never had a winning season? How many have ever played in or won a championship game? I would think it would be less than 5% and maybe lower than that. In the last few years if a team had only homegrown players and did not encourage transfers, they didn't have a prayer of competing against teams that had half a dozen to a dozen transfers in every season. If you stop and think that one or possibly two D-1 type players can make the difference in winning and losing for a small to medium sized school. Case in fact is CJ Spiller of Union County. One D-1 player made them one of the top teams in the state. Without CJ they may have been a 5-5 team.  In my estimation what I think we're allowing to happen is teams being built through college style recruiting. No one wants to admit it. But, that's what it is. The schools that encourage unbridled recruiting are successful due to that recruiting. They are not successful, in most cases, due to their homegrown talent. In a lot of cases they are not even successful due to their coaching. Anybody can gather a dozen D-1 players and be successful most of the time. Don't even really have to know that much about the game to coach them. I just feel that this unlimited transferring that is going on just to play football is very detrimental to the game of football at the high school level. Can we not just allow these HS players to play the game, for the pure satisfaction of playing and for team comradeship, instead of building farm teams for colleges with hired guns?

I completely agree it is a bad thing.  Although some of the Florida teams are absolutely loaded with talent, the effect is amplified by the fact that Florida has a LOT of really bad or mediocre teams mixed in with the strong ones.  When 1 player is making that much of a difference, it tells me that the surrounding area/teams are lacking depth.

I doubt some of our teams would dominate against some very disciplined, physical OOS teams that are not nearly as star studded, ie some of the larger public schools in Ohio like Colerain, Mentor, etc.  Look at American Heritage Plantation this year.  That team had mindboggling talent, but they struggled with Cardinal Gibbons, Immokalee, Bishop Sullivan...teams they should have absolutely DEMOLISHED with their level of talent.  

Too much talent coming too easy can make one lazy....and too much talent can sometimes result in too many people wanting the spotlight.  ...kids making "announcements" when they transfer..."look at me, look at me."  Sorry, but some of those kids are not looking for what they can do for their new team.  It's the other way around. 

[Jimmyb1980]

Since Flotech again doesn’t give the WHOLE story I will fill in the gaps! Sebastian opened in 1994 taking roughly 40% of the talent on the sports teams...Veros never been the same dominant program since...imagine Veros offense from 2 years ago with the Sebastian defense of that year with the 4 division one prospects...that’s what you lose when another school opens a school near any other school

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

Since Flotech again doesn’t give the WHOLE story I will fill in the gaps! Sebastian opened in 1994 taking roughly 40% of the talent on the sports teams...Veros never been the same dominant program since...imagine Veros offense from 2 years ago with the Sebastian defense of that year with the 4 division one prospects...that’s what you lose when another school opens a school near any other school

I think similar thing happened to Columbia

 

We haven't been same since Fort White opened 

[FloTech]

1 hour ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

Since Flotech again doesn’t give the WHOLE story I will fill in the gaps! Sebastian opened in 1994 taking roughly 40% of the talent on the sports teams...Veros never been the same dominant program since...imagine Veros offense from 2 years ago with the Sebastian defense of that year with the 4 division one prospects...that’s what you lose when another school opens a school near any other school

And you think I don't know that I already knew Sebastian took away SOME TALENT from Vero but look at MIA teams they spread all over the place and they still maintain even STA in a down year last year made it to the final four something we haven't done yet a typical Vero crybaby there are two types of Vero fans the delusional ones and the one who tell the flat out truth 

[Jimmyb1980]

We are not an elite program I’m not stupid we also don’t have anywhere near the amount of talent palm beach Miami Orlando Tampa have! We also are limited year to year not being close enough to a large population center to be in there district! We don’t play enough top quality competition in district or out of district top to bottom 

[FloTech]

11 minutes ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

We are not an elite program I’m not stupid we also don’t have anywhere near the amount of talent palm beach Miami Orlando Tampa have! We also are limited year to year not being close enough to a large population center to be in there district! We don’t play enough top quality competition in district or out of district top to bottom 

Well our population is shooting up there now and yup the competition is trash I'm expecting for Vero to pull a team together win out the regular season schedule and lose in the playoffs against lol

[DisabledAccount]

5 hours ago, FloTech said:

And you think I don't know that I already knew Sebastian took away SOME TALENT from Vero but look at MIA teams they spread all over the place and they still maintain even STA in a down year last year made it to the final four something we haven't done yet a typical Vero crybaby there are two types of Vero fans the delusional ones and the one who tell the flat out truth 

Region 4 of 7a was by far the weakest region outside of sta

 

Doral academy isn't a consistent contender and Dwyer has been in decline 

 

If you switched vero Beach and sta out in that region you all probably would have made final 4 there 

 

Miami can afford to spread talent around because they are overrunning with talent,  other areas in state?  Not so much 

[Bocefous70]

7 hours ago, Jimmyb1980 said:

Since Flotech again doesn’t give the WHOLE story I will fill in the gaps! Sebastian opened in 1994 taking roughly 40% of the talent on the sports teams...Veros never been the same dominant program since...imagine Veros offense from 2 years ago with the Sebastian defense of that year with the 4 division one prospects...that’s what you lose when another school opens a school near any other school

People make that argument in a lot of places and I just can’t buy in. They do it in Fort Pierce with central and Westwood all the time. If you combined both schools you’d have 5000 student schools.  I really like coach J and have worked with him a couple times in all star games. If there was any one knock I had of his program is they don’t consistently win the games where the talent levels of the other team are equal or better. I have always attributed this to their scheduling but would definitely be open to differing opinions. But if you look at the college talent output at Vero the last 7 years there’s nothing to suggest that early round playoff exits should be acceptable. 

[FloTech]

2 hours ago, Bocefous70 said:

People make that argument in a lot of places and I just can’t buy in. They do it in Fort Pierce with central and Westwood all the time. If you combined both schools you’d have 5000 student schools.  I really like coach J and have worked with him a couple times in all star games. If there was any one knock I had of his program is they don’t consistently win the games where the talent levels of the other team are equal or better. I have always attributed this to their scheduling but would definitely be open to differing opinions. But if you look at the college talent output at Vero the last 7 years there’s nothing to suggest that early round playoff exits should be acceptable. 

You can also go back to Coach Coggins too when he was coach right before Coach J he too was an early playoff exit for Vero 

[FloTech]

3 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Region 4 of 7a was by far the weakest region outside of sta

 

Doral academy isn't a consistent contender and Dwyer has been in decline 

 

If you switched vero Beach and sta out in that region you all probably would have made final 4 there 

 

Miami can afford to spread talent around because they are overrunning with talent,  other areas in state?  Not so much 

Maaayybeeee

[BrowardHandicapper]

4 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Region 4 of 7a was by far the weakest region outside of sta

 

Doral academy isn't a consistent contender and Dwyer has been in decline 

 

If you switched vero Beach and sta out in that region you all probably would have made final 4 there 

 

Miami can afford to spread talent around because they are overrunning with talent,  other areas in state?  Not so much 

But STA is in that Region....In 2018, the weakest 7A Region top to bottom....probably. But how do you figure "by far" ?   

When you have STA in your Region, generally no team is realistically a contender.  Tell me another 7A team in any region over the last few years that would be a consistent contender in 7A Region 4 with STA present?

Would you prefer Columbia over the years played in 7A Region 4 versus 7A Region 1? What does it matter if you get hung out to dry in Week 1 or pummeled in Week 3? You have to go through STA regardless.

Let me also take Bartram Trail out of Region 1,  Plant out of Region 2 and Venice out of Region 3.  Now talk to me about 7A as a whole in 2018.

Was there much of a difference this year between Doral Academy and Columbia, Wiregrass Ranch, East Lake, Palmetto, Edgwater, or Lincoln?

Matchup speaking, like Doral any one of those teams likely gets the snot beat out of them versus a extremely down 2018 STA team. 

Ask Venice what team was a harder game versus STA or Bartram Trail?

My point is 7A Region 4 is still generally the hardest region to advance in beyond 3 games, thus it might be fair to say it is not "by far" the weakest 7A Region.  Again, STA is part of that Region.

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, FloTech said:

You can also go back to Coach Coggins too when he was coach right before Coach J he too was an early playoff exit for Vero 

Vero has always been able to put points on the board.  Vero's problem is DEFENSE...or lack thereof...both short-term and long-term trends reflect this.

Points given up in playoff losses between 2008-2017-35, 34, 42, 47, 29, 41, 37, 31, 28       average =36

...since 1988...844 points give up in 26 playoff games   average=32    in 22/26 playoff losses since 1988, Vero gave up 27 points or more

It is not as if these losses are all to offensive juggernauts, either.   

[DisabledAccount]

10 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

But STA is in that Region....In 2018, the weakest Region top to bottom....probably. But how do you figure "by far" ?   

When you have STA in your Region, generally no team is realistically a contender.  Tell me another 7A team in any region over the last few years that would be a consistent contender in 7A Region 4 with STA present?

Would you prefer Columbia over the years played in 7A Region 4 versus 7A Region 1? What does it matter if you get hung out to dry in Week 1 or pummeled in Week 3? You have to go through STA regardless.

Let me also take Bartram Trail out of Region 1,  Plant out of Region 2 and Venice out of Region 3.  Now talk to me about 7A as a whole..

Was there much of a difference this year between Doral Academy and Columbia, Wiregrass Ranch, East Lake, Palmetto, Edgwater, or Lincoln?

Matchup speaking, like Doral any one of those teams likely gets the snot beat out of them versus a extremely down 2018 STA team. 

Ask Venice what team was a harder game versus them in STA or Bartram Trail?

My point is 7A Region 4 is still generally the hardest region to advance in beyond 3 games, thus it might be fair to say it is not "by far" the weakest 7A Region.  Again, STA is part of that Region.

Ok I'll rephrase it

 

It has the weakest depth of any 7a region because it's a huge drop-off between 1 and 2 team compared to 1 and 2 team in the other 3 regions in 7a 

 

If Doral can stay consistent and Dwyer can step up to old form then maybe region 4 becomes interesting but until then sta will never be eliminated until final 4 at the earliest 

 

7a region 4 needs a upgrade badly but then again 7a could use a few more teams being added

 

 

Region 1

 

Niceville, Navarre and Crestview supposed to be 7a if i recall correctly 

 

Then throw in Gainesville and vanguard and region 1 takes solid step up 

 

 

Region 2

Move plant to region 3 and bring in mainland (I'll explain in a second)

 

 

This adds mainland to fill plants place 

 

Lakeland 

Viera

Mainland 

 

 

Region 3

 

Bring up Armwood as well 

 

So now 

 

Venice

Braden River 

Tampa Bay Tech 

Plant

Armwood 

 

 

 

Region 4

 

Readjust a few teams (borderline 6a or 8a who are competitive) and put them in region 4 to balance it out 

 

Maybe someone like Dillard could be considered, if they can get coaching and attract players like they used to they probably could challenge sta regularly and beat sta in a down year 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

5 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Region 4 of 7a was by far the weakest region outside of sta

 

Doral academy isn't a consistent contender and Dwyer has been in decline 

 

If you switched vero Beach and sta out in that region you all probably would have made final 4 there 

 

Miami can afford to spread talent around because they are overrunning with talent,  other areas in state?  Not so much 

I would challenge that 7A Region 4 was at least as good, if not better, than 7A Region 3.  Look at teams seeded 3-8 in the playoffs in Region 3.  Where are the "quality" wins amongst them?   When Pinellas Park is a #3 seed and the #4 seed is a 5-5 South Fort Myers team that got trounced by Naples, Immokalee, Braden River and Port Charlotte...that is a weak region.

In Region 4, Doral was a pretty good team.  They beat Pace, who is always tough, and nearly beat Dwyer and the 2A state champion.  Local folks following following the team were commenting they had talent.  I would put Dwyer(the #2 seed) up against Tampa Bay Tech.  As far as the rest of the teams.