Arizona Implements Rules to Manage Transfers

[OldSchoolLion]

Thoughts?

In-state student-athletes who transfer before a season will have to sit out 50 percent of the season at their new school, regardless of a change of domicile. This applies to all athletes, varsity, junior varsity and freshmen. Athletes who transfer during a season would have to sit out a calendar year.  Out-of-state transfers will be treated under the state open enrollment law and can attend any school without having to sit out.

Athletes still would have the ability to appeal. If the sending school and the receiving school agree that the transfer was legitimate and file the necessary paperwork, the athlete will be immediately eligible.  Any subsequent transfers would mean the athlete has to sit out a calendar year. The appeals process still applies to those transfers.  Athletes who transfer from a school that didn't have a particular sport would be eligible immediately at their new school.

[BrowardHandicapper]

Does the same rule apply for any student or kids in the band , choir, or in the arts.....or is it strictly discriminating to athletes or even football?

If it is only football and specific sports yet kids on the golf team, and other "teams" or competitive clubs can transfer at will , sounds like blatant discrimination.

Do all of these kids playing football have nuclear families and have lived in the same house since birth with a white picket fence?  Or do most kids move every 2-3 years and live apartment to apartment not knowing if their parents will have the same job in 6 months?

Not sure how this will pan out in Arizona and can't  speak for the rest of Florida but I would bet 80%+  of the kids in Broward and Dade playing football have no control of where they will be living i.e. -  their parents are renters and/or may not have stable jobs.

 

Arizona may be setting themselves up for a lot of appeals and paperwork.

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Does the same rule apply for any student or kids in the band , choir, or in the arts.....or is it strictly discriminating to athletes or even football?

If it is only football and specific sports yet kids on the golf team, and other "teams" or competitive clubs can transfer at will , sounds like blatant discrimination.

Do all of these kids playing football have nuclear families and have lived in the same house since birth with a white picket fence?  Or do most kids move every 2-3 years and live apartment to apartment not knowing if their parents will have the same job in 6 months?

Not sure how this will pan out in Arizona and can't  speak for the rest of Florida but I would bet 80%+  of the kids in Broward and Dade playing football have no control of where they will be living i.e. -  their parents are renters and/or may not have stable jobs.

 

Arizona may be setting themselves up for a lot of appeals and paperwork.

I agree

 

I think a rule like this would catch hell if they tried to implement this in Florida 

[gatorman-uf]

The previous, current, and sadly future Florida's state legislature wouldn't allow this as they would meddle in the activities. 

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

The previous, current, and sadly future Florida's state legislature wouldn't allow this as they would meddle in the activities. 

It would do more damage than good anyway

[BrowardHandicapper]

Florida in fact essentially voted the opposite of this concept by opening more opportunities for all students just a couple years ago.  It was what the state wanted as a whole.   No need for the state to cry wolf now.. They got what they wanted when the entire state voted on it.

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Florida in fact essentially voted the opposite of this concept by opening more opportunities for all students just a couple years ago.  It was what the state wanted as a whole.   No need for the state to cry wolf now.. They got what they wanted when the entire state voted on it.

Are you a fan or skeptic of the rules so far? 

[OldSchoolLion]

...language from the rule, which applies to all interscholastic activities.  Interesting that it applies to member private schools as well. 

Bullets #1&2-I guess that is their way of saying, too bad if this negatively affects you, but athletics is not a "right," but a privilege..and not a privilege that justifies the creation of administrative burden to deal with an endless number of hardship cases 

Bullets #3&4-Interesting angle..."protecting" opportunities takes precedence over "creating" opportunities for transferees .  How about the kids who are getting knocked out of opportunities by all of these free agents moving around?  Aren't they victims just as much as the kid who cannot play because his family moves?

“Statement of Philosophy / Rationale for Transfer Rule”

 Promotes the educational philosophy that participation in interscholastic athletics is a privilege, which should not take a dominant role over academics;

 Recognizes the overwhelming administrative difficulty in attempting to determine the motives or reasons for each and every transfer, and, therefore, adopts a uniform objective standard to be followed by all member schools.

 Helps to protect opportunities for participation by students who attend school in the attendance zone of their domicile;

 Helps to protect and promote continuity of school programs;

 Serves as a deterrent to students running from or avoiding an athletic discipline that has been or may be imposed;

Except as otherwise stated, this rule is intended to and shall encompass any and all transfer situations and shall apply to any and all member schools, be they public, private or parochial.

[BrowardHandicapper]

40 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Are you a fan or skeptic of the rules so far? 

I'm kind of neutral on it....The concept that the rule was allegedly created for more educational and equal opportunity for all students in the state of Florida, yet the bill was heavily fueled and pushed significantly by former football programs that have been struggling against private powers in recent years....Just saying...

I would go out on a limb and say that although it was what the state wanted as a whole there were certain areas of the state that really, really wanted the educational bill to pass - for educational purposed of course ;-)

Down here in South Florida most publics and privates just kind of observed as to how it would pan out.  Not much has changed.  Broward publics have got a bit weaker of late though.  Broward privates overall perhaps a little stronger.  STA took a dip in 2017, AHP was about par, Cardinal Gibbons and Chaminade-Madonna came back strong and a little program named North Broward Prep probably had the most unknown dominant player in the state.

Many football fans felt private schools have a unfair advantage and stated that if their program ever had the same rules applied to their program things would be changing fast.

[OldSchoolLion]

5 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

I'm kind of neutral on it....I laugh at the concept that the rule was allegedly created for more educational and equal opportunity for all students in the state of Florida yet the bill was heavily fueled and pushed by former football programs  that have been struggling against private powers in recent years....Just saying...

Down here in South Florida most publics and privates just kind of observed as to how it would pan out.  Not much has changed.  Publics have got a bit weaker of late though.  Privates overall perhaps a little stronger.  STA took a dip in 2017, AHP was about par, Cardinal Gibbons and Chaminade-Madonna came back strong and a little program named North Broward Prep probably had the most unknown dominant player in the state.

Many football fans felt private schools have a unfair advantage and stated that if their program ever had the same rules applied to their program things would be changing fast.

...this is not pointed toward you BrowardH, just a general statement

IMG, St Thomas, Bolles and American Heritage have, in a manner of speaking, caused all of the private schools to be judged the same.  Those programs are absolute light years ahead of the other privates when you compare entire sports programs.  It is easier for folks just to say "privates," but all privates are not the "problem." 

Folks need to concentrate on what is under their control...their own performance.  You are not going to beat those 800-pound gorillas with a bunch of rules.  You beat 'em by gettin' mad, I mean .....           

 

[gatorman-uf]

48 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Florida in fact essentially voted the opposite of this concept by opening more opportunities for all students just a couple years ago.  It was what the state wanted as a whole.   No need for the state to cry wolf now.. They got what they wanted when the entire state voted on it.

 

When did the people of state vote for it? The state legislature voted for essentially allowing students to move any school as long as there is room for them and they pay their own transportation (just wait until somebody sues to have transportation costs covered as well). Our state legislature should get out of high school sports.

[BrowardHandicapper]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...this is not pointed toward you BrowardH, just a general statement

IMG, St Thomas, Bolles and American Heritage have, in a manner of speaking, caused all of the private schools to be judged the same.  Those programs are absolute light years ahead of the other privates when you compare entire sports programs.  It is easier for folks just to say "privates," but all privates are not the "problem." 

Folks need to concentrate on what is under their control...their own performance.  You are not going to beat those 800-pound gorillas with a bunch of rules.  You beat 'em by gettin' mad, I mean .....           

 

 

Was that John Peacock's pre-game speach this year versus STA? 

[BrowardHandicapper]

18 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

 

When did the people of state vote for it? The state legislature voted for essentially allowing students to move any school as long as there is room for them and they pay their own transportation (just wait until somebody sues to have transportation costs covered as well). Our state legislature should get out of high school sports.

Okay, sorry for the confusion..representation of the entire state voted for this bill. ...

Not sure how long you have been on the Florida forums but their were a lot  posters that wanted this rule to pass to make things equal across the state (football speaking) .  I.E. - NO more whining or excuses.  Rules are the same for everyone.  What more can you ask for?

[BrowardHandicapper]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...this is not pointed toward you BrowardH, just a general statement

IMG, St Thomas, Bolles and American Heritage have, in a manner of speaking, caused all of the private schools to be judged the same.  Those programs are absolute light years ahead of the other privates when you compare entire sports programs.  It is easier for folks just to say "privates," but all privates are not the "problem." 

Folks need to concentrate on what is under their control...their own performance.  You are not going to beat those 800-pound gorillas with a bunch of rules.  You beat 'em by gettin' mad, I mean .....           

 

 

Outside of football there are privates in baseball, soccer, basketball  that are on par and have bullied those schools.   Football for the most part is the only sport that consistently separates STA and AHP.  I can tell you small private basketball, soccer and baseball Broward and SFL programs that will generally mop the floor in those sports with STA and AHP.  AHP and STA's second best sport is probably track and field, if I am not mistaken? They are both pretty dominant in that yet few football players compete on the teams.

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Okay, sorry for the confusion..representation of the entire state voted for this bill. ...

Not sure how long you have been on the Florida forums but their were a lot  posters that wanted this rule to pass to make things equal across the state (football speaking) .  I.E. - NO more whining or excuse.  Rules are the same for everyone.  What more can you ask for?

Actually if i recall correctly open enrollment was passed for all sports 

 

But football takes the most media attention and as a result that fact falls under the radar 

[BrowardHandicapper]

Just now, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Actually if i recall correctly open enrollment was passed for all sports 

 

But football takes the most media attention and as a result that fact falls under the radar 

It was but I referenced "football" because we all know there was a football agenda monster peaking over the fence of the education open enrollment.

[OldSchoolLion]

...so private schools unfairly recruit players, so let's make a rule so that public schools can..  Oh wait, we can't recruit, so let's just allow the kids to run wild from school to school and throw our hands up in the air and say this transferring stuff is completely out of our control, but wink wink, it sure was nice when that 5-star just showed up out of nowhere begging to play here. 

Isn't there an old expression about two wrongs not making a right?  

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

It was but I referenced "football" because we all know there was a football agenda monster peaking over the fence of the education open enrollment.

True that 

[OldSchoolLion]

 

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 

 

 

?

[OldSchoolLion]

24 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

 

Outside of football there are privates in baseball, soccer, basketball  that are on par and have bullied those schools.   Football for the most part is the only sport that consistently separates STA and AHP.  I can tell you small private basketball, soccer and baseball Broward and SFL programs that will generally mop the floor in those sports with STA and AHP.  AHP and STA's second best sport is probably track and field, if I am not mistaken? They are both pretty dominant in that yet few football players compete on the teams.

..don't disagree.  Was thinking of their athletic programs as a whole.  As you will see at the link below, Bolles, AHP and STA all made the top 50 athletic programs in the country.  I do not believe any other state had three private schools in that list.  Add up all of the title appearances of those three schools on that list and it is mindboggling.  And even the sports not on that list....these schools still have some pretty good teams

I am not aware of any other private schools in Florida who routinely dominate in multiple sports like those three (and IMG) do.  Chaminade is good in football, Tampa Jesuit has got baseball, etc  It seems the "other" private schools have one or two sports where they excel, and the others they are nothing special.          

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/VUEgQ1kR3UmZ5zrbEMejcg/final-2016-17-maxpreps-cup-standings--st-thomas-aquinas-wins-the-title.htm

[BrowardHandicapper]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...so private schools unfairly recruit players, so let's make a rule so that public schools can..  Oh wait, we can't recruit, so let's just allow the kids to run wild from school to school and throw our hands up in the air and say this transferring stuff is completely out of our control, but wink wink, it sure was nice when that 5-star just showed up out of nowhere begging to play here. 

Isn't there an old expression about two wrongs not making a right?  

I never said "recruit"   .     It is possible that kids also go to private schools for a better education and opportunity though, right?  

Some kids also go to public schools  have "magnet " program opportunities .  I'll never knock a kid that wants to expand opportunity academically or athletically.  I'll never knock a program that provides those opportunities for kids. 

 Post high school educational opportunities that may have not been available if kids were forced to stay at the schools that "we" deem fit for them.  Who are we to tell a kid what he/she can and can't do to open up doors academically and athletically?

  Has it gotten to the point that because some are so sick of football dominance that we want to lock our youth down and limit their futures for our own satisfactions with High School football?

 

How about we just separate the state for Division 1 and Division 2 football and play with the big boys.  Those with baulz step forward.

 

[BrowardHandicapper]

25 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

..don't disagree.  Was thinking of their athletic programs as a whole.  As you will see at the link below, Bolles, AHP and STA all made the top 50 athletic programs in the country.  I do not believe any other state had three private schools in that list.  Add up all of the title appearances of those three schools on that list and it is mindboggling.  And even the sports not on that list....these schools still have some pretty good teams

I am not aware of any other private schools in Florida who routinely dominate in multiple sports like those three (and IMG) do.  Chaminade is good in football, Tampa Jesuit has got baseball, etc  It seems the "other" private schools have one or two sports where they excel, and the others they are nothing special.          

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/VUEgQ1kR3UmZ5zrbEMejcg/final-2016-17-maxpreps-cup-standings--st-thomas-aquinas-wins-the-title.htm

SFL privates on par or generally better then STA or AHP 

Baseball:  Archbishop McCarthy, Nova, Westminster Christian, Trinity Christian Academy (Lake Worth), Doral Academy, Columbus, Calvary Christian (FTL), Pine Crest, North Broward Prep, Gulliver Prep, University School

Basketball: Westminster Academy (FTL), University School, Miami Christian, Calvary Christian (FTL) ,  Doral Academy,  Gulliver Prep, Coral Springs Charter,  Cardinal Gibbons, St. Andrews,  

New teams that are on par: Sport Leadership and Management (Miami), Oxbridge Academy

 

Soccer:  University School, North Broward Prep, Gulliver Prep, Pembroke Pines Charter

 

I am not going to compile a list of public schools in the above sports but the list would have many on par or above.  I agree that AHP and STA have great stability across the board in spor, s but don't most large  privates versus publics in their geographical areas as well.

 

Is it possible that:  with a large population in FL/SFL over 20/5 million, a extremely strong football heritage, SFL being the best metro area in the nation producing talent.  Perhaps when you factor the above,  that is why the private schools are so dominant.  The Northeast take their lacrosse serious .  You could probably argue the private lacrosse schools in the Northeast are just as,  or more dominant then STA , AHP and IMG (football)when they face public schools in lacrosse. 

[BrowardHandicapper]

Say one is a Junior at public high school,  solid 2nd team all county player but no offers yet.  If I am that player, or parent knowing that if I enroll  at St. Thomas Aquinas or AHP , become a rostered player, and  know it will open up doors for me academically and athletically, would I be wrong to pursue that opportunity?

 

The other option is to stay at Monarch, Coral Glades, South Broward and keep my fingers crossed....  Maybe, I'll get noticed or someone will notice my public school education....But hey, I will satisfy other people that I did the "right" thing ethically and did not strengthen the empire and will keep all of the STA haters happy by staying at Monarch because I know they will be there for me in my future ....

  Who cares about my future, it's all about satisfying others and staying at Monarch

 

Does anybody see my perspective for the individual? 

Does anyone really think these kids,  their parents care about our personal perspective when these opportunities arise for their kids?

Put yourself in their shoes.

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

Okay, sorry for the confusion..representation of the entire state voted for this bill. ...

Not sure how long you have been on the Florida forums but their were a lot  posters that wanted this rule to pass to make things equal across the state (football speaking) .  I.E. - NO more whining or excuses.  Rules are the same for everyone.  What more can you ask for?

I have been on the forums for 12 years, and there was a much larger voice about why this bill opens up Free Agency for sports. And the reason why nobody knocks a kid for going to the Magnet School is because of the purpose of schools is education, not sports! Again, the state legislature butting in where they don't need to be.

Please understand the Free Agency Bill was not about enhancing opportunities for students, it was about trying to destroy public education as a whole. It plays into the Republican narrative of "school choice" which then becomes the expansion of the voucher system! It isn't about students, it is about making that money for the businesses!