STA vs Central

[DB4]

In the states where the public schools rule, the biggest thing is that there is a real structure to the publics and privates. In Texas, I think there are two private schools in the UIL. Meanwhile there are 2-3 other federations for private/parochial/independent schools. 

Florida on the other hand has the privates and publics running together. Combine that with the lax recruiting rules and this is what is bound to happen.

As far as Broward publics, Deerfield should be carrying the county with all the talent they get on a yearly basis. The fact that they haven't won state or even gotten to the title game in awhile is a crying shame.

Miramar, Plantation, and Western will be good and carry the county publics for this year and maybe for the next few years. We'll see if any of the schools stay consistent for awhile.

[OldSchoolLion]

9 minutes ago, DB4 said:

In the states where the public schools rule, the biggest thing is that there is a real structure to the publics and privates. In Texas, I think there are two private schools in the UIL. Meanwhile there are 2-3 other federations for private/parochial/independent schools. 

Florida on the other hand has the privates and publics running together. Combine that with the lax recruiting rules and this is what is bound to happen.

As far as Broward publics, Deerfield should be carrying the county with all the talent they get on a yearly basis. The fact that they haven't won state or even gotten to the title game in awhile is a crying shame.

Miramar, Plantation, and Western will be good and carry the county publics for this year and maybe for the next few years. We'll see if any of the schools stay consistent for awhile.

Good points.  One other variable affecting certain public schools might be coaching.  Deerfield Beach is one of the poster children for coaching turnover in recent years.

Florida had publics and privates playing together for many years and things were fairly well-balanced in the higher classes.  And without some of the transfer rules of today, there was ample opportunity for the privates to run wild over the publics.  So, what changed?

About 25 years ago, Bolles and St Thomas, under 2 great coaches, started showing up regularly at state finals, hs games started appearing on TV, hs national rankings started getting noticed, college recruiting went crazy.  I think this was the perfect storm that allowed those 2 schools to grow so strong and limit the success of public schools around them.  Dillard and Ely both started getting traction a while back and STA put an end to that when it changed classes.

In states like California and Ohio, the privates had a big presence going WAY back, ie Moeller HS in Ohio was mythical national champions back in the 1970's.  Prior to the 1990's, the private schools did not have such a presence in Florida..at least not in the bigger classes.  So, it's as if they appeared on the scene at just the right time to get everyone's attention in Florida.   

It is interesting that Miami-Dade(Columbus, Pace, Belen, Carroll, etc) and the Tampa area(Catholic, Jesuit, Berkeley Prep, CCC, etc) have a fair number of private schools, but the private schools have never dominated.  The potential certainly existed, just like in Broward County.   Possibly STA created a mindset in Broward that "I need to go to a private school to get noticed" and with the emergence of new private schools it has reinforced this perception.

 

Begs the question, why Broward but not there.  

   

 

 

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Good points.  One other variable affecting certain public schools might be coaching.  Deerfield Beach is one of the poster children for coaching turnover in recent years.

Florida had publics and privates playing together for many years and things were fairly well-balanced in the higher classes.  And without some of the transfer rules of today, there was ample opportunity for the privates to run wild over the publics.  So, what changed?

About 25 years ago, Bolles and St Thomas, under 2 great coaches, started showing up regularly at state finals, hs games started appearing on TV, hs national rankings started getting noticed, college recruiting went crazy.  I think this was the perfect storm that allowed those 2 schools to grow so strong and limit the success of public schools around them.  Dillard and Ely both started getting traction a while back and STA put an end to that when it changed classes.

In states like California and Ohio, the privates had a big presence going WAY back, ie Moeller HS in Ohio was mythical national champions back in the 1970's.  Prior to the 1990's, the private schools did not have such a presence in Florida..at least not in the bigger classes.  So, it's as if they appeared on the scene at just the right time to get everyone's attention in Florida.   

It is interesting that Miami-Dade(Columbus, Pace, Belen, Carroll, etc) and the Tampa area(Catholic, Jesuit, Berkeley Prep, CCC, etc) have a fair number of private schools, but the private schools have never dominated.  The potential certainly existed, just like in Broward County.   Possibly STA created a mindset in Broward that "I need to go to a private school to get noticed" and with the emergence of new private schools it has reinforced this perception.

 

Begs the question, why Broward but not there.  

   

 

 

You couldn’t have said it any better tookthe words right out of my mouth. Being a Broward County native for over 25 years I can say it’s the mindset and the over all hunger that has changed here. Back in the 90s and before kids didn’t wanna go to these private schools they wanted to beat those private schools back in the day what many don’t know is STA had to go through Dillard and etc to get where they wanted to go.

in Today’s world these kids don’t wanna work they don’t wanna dedicated to a team and unite and be a family all these players today all they want is personal recognition while they get their own individual stats they don’t care about the team or team goals which is why during games the team can be down 50 and players are laughing talking dancing to the band as if it’s a joke. Going to the likes of STA automatically gets u a scholarship whether u play or ride the bench the entire year and players know that.

[DB4]

17 minutes ago, "PANTHER NATiON" (WE HERE) said:

You couldn’t have said it any better tookthe words right out of my mouth. Being a Broward County native for over 25 years I can say it’s the mindset and the over all hunger that has changed here. Back in the 90s and before kids didn’t wanna go to these private schools they wanted to beat those private schools back in the day what many don’t know is STA had to go through Dillard and etc to get where they wanted to go.

in Today’s world these kids don’t wanna work they don’t wanna dedicated to a team and unite and be a family all these players today all they want is personal recognition while they get their own individual stats they don’t care about the team or team goals which is why during games the team can be down 50 and players are laughing talking dancing to the band as if it’s a joke. Going to the likes of STA automatically gets u a scholarship whether u play or ride the bench the entire year and players know that.

And add Cardinal Gibbons, American Heritage and Chaminade Madonna to that and it's even worse now. When I was in HS, Gibbons wasn't what they are now; Heritage was good but not yet great. Chaminade was legit. They had Guandolo, Glenn Cook and Jon Beason.

[SPCjessica2004]

24 minutes ago, "PANTHER NATiON" (WE HERE) said:

and the Tampa area(Catholic, Jesuit, Berkeley Prep, CCC, etc) have a fair number of private schools, but the private schools have never dominated.

Tampa private schools aren't bad, but they'll never be to compete with Miami/Palm Beach/Broward/Duval. Outside of those areas, they've found success. Part of it is the way the Tampa bay private schools regulate their aid vs how Broward/Palm Beach/Miami regulates their financial aid. 

My cousin, Tiffany is sending her son who is going into 8th grade and is 6'2, 225 to Chaminade-Madonna in another year- the way they process aid is totally different than my time at St. Pete Catholic. They don't so much award aid as need-based, they actually have a variable tuition rate based on your earnings and the aid you receive.  No Tampa area team can compete with that. It's not cheating- I actually consider it modern thinking and wish more schools would adopt the philosophy.

The talent is too diluted and the population isn't as much as Southeast Florida. That doesn't mean they won't beat them from time to time, heck Tampa Catholic beat the 2009 Chaminade team and the 2013 CCC team beat a very good Westminster team, but those are exceptions... most of the time it's going to be 50-10 beat-downs.  This is also part of the reason why I think the FHSAA needs rethink classifications aside from student enrollment. No county  in Florida is anywhere near the population density of Pinellas (Clearwater/St. Pete).  They have a lot of people on not a lot of land, but since it's a small area they don't have the outward mobility of Southeast Florida.

Berkeley Prep was always a poor team until Dom Ciao came on board in 2006, then Nelson Agholor joined the team for 4 years- obviously, they went on to have some great runs in the post-season.  Tampa Catholic has had some of the most individually talented teams in history for private schools in the area.. they had Kenny Kelly, Quincy Hipps and Darrell Jackson on the same team in the mid 1990's and didn't win.

Even in Tampa, Jesuit is kind of their own team- I don't even include them in the private school debate. They've completely dominated Tampa Catholic, St. Pete Catholic, Berkeley.  They've lost 2 in a row to CCC, but going back to the 70's and 80's, Jesuit dominated them as well.

CCC had a choice to emphasize football back in the early 80's, but instead choose soccer. The football team was bad, they won the state title in soccer every year and even a mythical national championship- I think they still hold the record for most state championships in soccer in Florida for all classes. Then when Davis came to CCC, they started to emphasize football and soccer fell behind.

Point is, you're correct- no private school has ever been dominant in the area and I don't believe they ever will. Superior Collegiate is trying..  but the FHSAA just ruled them a sports academy, thus not eligible for the playoffs.

 

[OldSchoolLion]

42 minutes ago, "PANTHER NATiON" (WE HERE) said:

You couldn’t have said it any better tookthe words right out of my mouth. Being a Broward County native for over 25 years I can say it’s the mindset and the over all hunger that has changed here. Back in the 90s and before kids didn’t wanna go to these private schools they wanted to beat those private schools back in the day what many don’t know is STA had to go through Dillard and etc to get where they wanted to go.

in Today’s world these kids don’t wanna work they don’t wanna dedicated to a team and unite and be a family all these players today all they want is personal recognition while they get their own individual stats they don’t care about the team or team goals which is why during games the team can be down 50 and players are laughing talking dancing to the band as if it’s a joke. Going to the likes of STA automatically gets u a scholarship whether u play or ride the bench the entire year and players know that.

True, true, true!  Many of the privates were doormats back then and it was great fun beating the "privileged" white kids.  That was the vibe.  In the early 80's, Chaminade was an all-boys school and at football games the opposing teams would chant "Chaminade boys take bubble baths."  A brother wouldn't be caught dead going to a school like that. 

Between 1980-1990...  

STA     6 playoff appearances, made it past second round once 

Dillard      8 playoff appearances, 3 state final appearances, 2 state titles

STA had George Smith, a pretty stadium, the legacy of Brian Piccolo, and there was talk of them recruiting.  They could have dominated like today, but didn't .  Below are some of the results. 

What changed?  The first nationally televised hs football game was in 1989.  All of a sudden these wimpy private schools could "do something for me," ie exposure, and attitudes have done a 180 turn.  

 

STA vs south FL schools in the playoffs in the 1980's

1980 Glades Central/regional LOSS

1981 Suncoast/regional LOSS

1982 Homestead/district LOSS

1983 Northeast/regional WIN the only year in the 1980's STA made it past the second round

1984 Homestead/district LOSS

1986 Dillard/regional LOSS

 

[DisabledAccount]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Good points.  One other variable affecting certain public schools might be coaching.  Deerfield Beach is one of the poster children for coaching turnover in recent years.

Florida had publics and privates playing together for many years and things were fairly well-balanced in the higher classes.  And without some of the transfer rules of today, there was ample opportunity for the privates to run wild over the publics.  So, what changed?

About 25 years ago, Bolles and St Thomas, under 2 great coaches, started showing up regularly at state finals, hs games started appearing on TV, hs national rankings started getting noticed, college recruiting went crazy.  I think this was the perfect storm that allowed those 2 schools to grow so strong and limit the success of public schools around them.  Dillard and Ely both started getting traction a while back and STA put an end to that when it changed classes.

In states like California and Ohio, the privates had a big presence going WAY back, ie Moeller HS in Ohio was mythical national champions back in the 1970's.  Prior to the 1990's, the private schools did not have such a presence in Florida..at least not in the bigger classes.  So, it's as if they appeared on the scene at just the right time to get everyone's attention in Florida.   

It is interesting that Miami-Dade(Columbus, Pace, Belen, Carroll, etc) and the Tampa area(Catholic, Jesuit, Berkeley Prep, CCC, etc) have a fair number of private schools, but the private schools have never dominated.  The potential certainly existed, just like in Broward County.   Possibly STA created a mindset in Broward that "I need to go to a private school to get noticed" and with the emergence of new private schools it has reinforced this perception.

 

Begs the question, why Broward but not there.  

   

 

 

Bolles is nothing like they used to be

 

Trinity Christian a stronger program (at least in football) at this point 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

37 minutes ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

The talent is too diluted and the population isn't as much as Southeast Florida.

 

Thanks for that great information Jessica.  I was considering the Tampa privates relative to the Tampa-area public schools.  Since they are all pulling from the same population base, I've often wondered why one of those privates didn't become the STA of Tampa.  Similarly, it is interesting that Columbus did not become the STA of Dade County.

Your point about tuition is interesting.  Some of the S FL private schools were hurting financially back in the 1980's.  Chaminade had to merge with Madonna Academy and Curley merged with Notre Dame.  STA was known as the "sports school" amongst the privates back then and I don't ever remember hearing about enrollment issues there.  Maybe that forced some of the more "academically slanted" private schools to start looking at sports more seriously as a means of attracting students and surviving.  STA and Columbus always had reasonably good programs throughout their histories, but many of the S FL privates were downright pathetic at times in the past.  

 

 

 

These were pretty desperate moves for the time.  Am wondering if that forced some of these to get more interested   

[OldSchoolLion]

14 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Bolles is nothing like they used to be

 

Trinity Christian a stronger program (at least in football) at this point 

 

 

Many programs with legendary coaches experience dropoffs when that coach moves on.  I would not count Bolles out.  It seems like Bolles never became the darling of the polls or TV like Aquinas did.  I bet if they were on TV as much as STA has been over the years, things might be a little different.  Has Bolles ever been featured in a nationally televised game?

I used to discount the importance of TV, but I've become a believer that it is a big influence in the schools kids want to play at.  My perception is that STA, AHP and IMG get most of the love when it comes to TV time.  We've had some great public school programs over the years that never made it prime time.   

[DisabledAccount]

20 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Many programs with legendary coaches experience dropoffs when that coach moves on.  I would not count Bolles out.  It seems like Bolles never became the darling of the polls or TV like Aquinas did.  I bet if they were on TV as much as STA has been over the years, things might be a little different.  Has Bolles ever been featured in a nationally televised game?

I used to discount the importance of TV, but I've become a believer that it is a big influence in the schools kids want to play at.  My perception is that STA, AHP and IMG get most of the love when it comes to TV time.  We've had some great public school programs over the years that never made it prime time.   

I disagree

 

I feel Bolles is regularly overranked 

 

2015 i heard Bolles this and bolles that,  we went over for their homecoming and million dollar field and came 1td from putting a running clock on them and they were 6-0 at the time 

 

Bolles hadn't been the best private school in duval since 2011 or 2012

 

Since 2013 Trinity Christian was without a doubt the better program every year and Bolles would have lost to Trinity every year since 2013

 

Difference is Bolles has been known since the 90s in national polls but Trinity Christian didn't start getting national recognition until past 8 years or so but right now Bolles has lost their edge of the duval privates and I don't see them winning 5a anytime soon, too many teams at Bolles level

[OldSchoolLion]

30 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I disagree

I feel Bolles is regularly overranked 

 

...since when, Columbia?   More than 5 years ago they were regularly overranked?

Not that I am a huge Bolles fan, but Corky Rogers was scheduling out-of-area teams long before that became cool. They traveled to Broward/Dade during the regular season on more than one occasion prior to this decade.  When was the last time Columbia did that? 

In the early 2000's, they played in 2A, which was a murderer's row at playoff time...Clewiston, South Sumter Chaminade, Madison County.  As far as I am concerned, they earned their stripes.

 

[FloTech]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Many programs with legendary coaches experience dropoffs when that coach moves on.  I would not count Bolles out.  It seems like Bolles never became the darling of the polls or TV like Aquinas did.  I bet if they were on TV as much as STA has been over the years, things might be a little different.  Has Bolles ever been featured in a nationally televised game?

I used to discount the importance of TV, but I've become a believer that it is a big influence in the schools kids want to play at.  My perception is that STA, AHP and IMG get most of the love when it comes to TV time.  We've had some great public school programs over the years that never made it prime time.   

Out of public schools MC and BTW had the best P4P runs 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...since when, Columbia?   More than 5 years ago they were regularly overranked?

Not that I am a huge Bolles fan, but Corky Rogers was scheduling out-of-area teams long before that became cool. They traveled to Broward/Dade during the regular season on more than one occasion prior to this decade.  When was the last time Columbia did that? 

In the early 2000's, they played in 2A, which was a murderer's row at playoff time...Clewiston, South Sumter Chaminade, Madison County.  As far as I am concerned, they earned their stripes.

 

Since their last Championship 

[DisabledAccount]

20 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

you have no evidence or support for this. your just flapping your gums.

MNW 

 

BTW 

 

No evidence huh? 

 

MNW was dominating in late 00s in Dade County 

 

You all don't play them till 2013

 

 

BTW produced perhaps best team in Dade small school history or perhaps best Dade team overall in 2013 

 

You all don't play them until 2015

 

 

 

Miami central went to 5 straight championships between 2011 and 2015

 

You all wait till 2018 to schedule them

 

 

If you have evidence to explain why these games Never happen until they appear to be in decline then feel free to share

 

Better yet how come despite close proximity that you all have to Dade County you all rarely play elite Miami teams?

 

Guess flying across the country is easier than driving a hour for STA 

 

 

Also how come 3 different Miami Dade publics signed up to play IMG last year alone but STA has not played them despite fact they probably are very close to having same numbers of future college players? 

[DisabledAccount]

25 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

why you gotta step on the only true thing that columbiafan has ever said?

Sounds like someone likes to read my posts from the shadows LMAO 

 

National board?  Lurker?

 

Wonder what broke the camels back to bring you out of hiding,  whoever you are

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, TheBeastWithin said:

you have no idea how these games are scheduled.

whats funny is that central, northwestern, etc. are never responsible for it. its only sta. those who actually know whats going on understand that what youre saying is garbage.

and whos you?

Well I'll start with the easiest indicator

 

When a team is willing to play a team with more d1 players it kinda gives me the impression they aren't the ones dodging

 

Why would Miami Central, Carol City and Northwestern play img but dodge sta? 

 

What about that makes any sense?

 

 

Also you never answered why has sta not scheduled img? 

 

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

you have no idea how these games are scheduled.

whats funny is that central, northwestern, etc. are never responsible for it. its only sta. those who actually know whats going on understand that what youre saying is garbage.

and whos you?

You say I'm wrong but i don't see you proving how I'm wrong

 

Most people use evidence to back it up when they claim I'm wrong, just saying I'm wrong doesn't really let me take it seriously

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

you have no idea how these games are scheduled.

whats funny is that central, northwestern, etc. are never responsible for it. its only sta. those who actually know whats going on understand that what youre saying is garbage.

and whos you?

Games are scheduled because both teams find something they gain by playing the other

 

What just puzzles me is why sta will play games home or away against teams from 1k + miles away but they rarely play Dade county

 

Why is that? 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, TheBeastWithin said:

central was offered the sta game in 2014 and 2015 and turned it down to travel to georgia.

fact.

And this is the first I've heard of it 

 

 

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

central was offered the sta game in 2014 and 2015 and turned it down to travel to georgia.

fact.

A game like this would have gotten national attention on the forums and been talked about on here or rivals yet i don't recall anything being brought up 

 

Did these talks get serious?

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, TheBeastWithin said:

central plays games from 1k miles away too and doesn't play sta.

nobody ever mentions that.

^

[954gator]

Man, you all are funny about STA trying to schedule a down Miami team.   You see STA's offense last year?  I doubt they're thinking  "Oh lets get an easy win vs that scrub Miami Central next year".   Lol you guys crack me up.   Shoot, Central might be the team taking advantage here.   STA better get that offense going. 

 

[954gator]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:10 PM, Zoe Boy said:

Central is low key reloading...

Of course they are.   Last year was supposed to be a big down year too.    MC will be good like always IMO. 

[DisabledAccount]

8 minutes ago, 954gator said:

Man, you all are funny about STA trying to schedule a down Miami team.   You see STA's offense last year?  I doubt they're thinking  "Oh lets get an easy win vs that scrub Miami Central next year".   Lol you guys crack me up.   Shoot, Central might be the team taking advantage here.   STA better get that offense going. 

 

If they want to go back to state or win this game they need to 

 

Last year's production on offense will not be enough to win 7a (even though some think 7a is full of scraps)

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, 954gator said:

Of course they are.   Last year was supposed to be a big down year too.    MC will be good like always IMO. 

Yes i have been hearing rumors of reloading at central and while I haven't gotten the details i want yet I'll definitely keep eye on them

 

I hope you right about that because it would be nice to see a south FL private powerhouse vs a south Florida public powerhouse 

 

Maybe then when central wins people will quit saying only privates and teams who recruit are good in FL