Comparison of # of Playoff Teams over Past 5 Decades

[OldSchoolLion]

I share this to show how things have changed over time concerning the number of teams across all classes making the FHSAA playoffs.    The 1990's were a time a time of big change.  As a specific example, I have included the number of Miami-Dade teams across all classes who made the playoffs in a specific year.  

The $64million question...have the changes in classes/regions/districts accomplished what they were intended to do?  And does the current format provide for a better experience for players, coaches and fans?     

 1973 28 teams (2 Miami-Dade teams)

1978 56 teams (4 Miami-Dade teams)

1983 56 teams (6 Miami-Dade teams)

1988 56 teams (5 Miami-Dade teams)

1993 128 teams (7 Miami-Dade teams)

1998 160 teams (14 Miami-Dade teams)

2003 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

2008 192 teams (17 Miami-Dade teams)

2013 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

[Zoe Boy]

18 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I share this to show how things have changed over time concerning the number of teams across all classes making the FHSAA playoffs.    The 1990's were a time a time of big change.  As a specific example, I have included the number of Miami-Dade teams across all classes who made the playoffs in a specific year.  

The $64million question...have the changes in classes/regions/districts accomplished what they were intended to do?  And does the current format provide for a better experience for players, coaches and fans?     

 1973 28 teams (2 Miami-Dade teams)

1978 56 teams (4 Miami-Dade teams)

1983 56 teams (6 Miami-Dade teams)

1988 56 teams (5 Miami-Dade teams)

1993 128 teams (7 Miami-Dade teams)

1998 160 teams (14 Miami-Dade teams)

2003 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

2008 192 teams (17 Miami-Dade teams)

2013 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

N what was the classes ,district,, region was intended to do?

[DarterBlue2]

21 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I share this to show how things have changed over time concerning the number of teams across all classes making the FHSAA playoffs.    The 1990's were a time a time of big change.  As a specific example, I have included the number of Miami-Dade teams across all classes who made the playoffs in a specific year.  

The $64million question...have the changes in classes/regions/districts accomplished what they were intended to do?  And does the current format provide for a better experience for players, coaches and fans?     

 1973 28 teams (2 Miami-Dade teams)

1978 56 teams (4 Miami-Dade teams)

1983 56 teams (6 Miami-Dade teams)

1988 56 teams (5 Miami-Dade teams)

1993 128 teams (7 Miami-Dade teams)

1998 160 teams (14 Miami-Dade teams)

2003 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

2008 192 teams (17 Miami-Dade teams)

2013 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

On a percentage basis, Dade's percent of the total has actually not varied that much over the years. Now this is probably due to first District Champs only made the playoffs for a long time and districts with Dade teams were exclusively Dade districts. Likewise in the late 1990s through 2016, District champs and runner ups made the playoffs and districts with Dade teams were almost always exclusively Dade districts. Now that we have gone to points systems (and districts have been abolished in the lower classes altogether), look for changes in the percentage of teams from different counties, including Dade, to begin to fluctuate much more from year to year and to also trend positively or negatively over time. Of course, this assumes the new system remains in place for awhile. 

[OldSchoolLion]

6 hours ago, Zoe Boy said:

N what was the classes ,district,, region was intended to do?

Am hoping someone out there might have some history to share.  My guess is that many of the issues today were the same back then, ie "fair" competition, public vs private, travel to games, etc.

One thing is for sure.  A lot more teams are making the playoffs.  30 years ago, winning a district title was a BIG deal because only so many teams made the playoffs.  For instance, in 1988, only four "big" schools from Miami-Dade made the playoffs.  This past season, 14 did (8A-8, 7A-3, 6A-3).  And if Jackson would have made it in 5A, it would have been 15.   

 

[OldSchoolLion]

In a sense, expansion of classes has enabled the rich to get richer.  Some of the strongest programs were spread across more classes, giving them clearer paths to championships.  We have teams able to make the finals by winning games with running clocks. 

Maybe this is simply a "cost" of allowing more teams to make the playoffs.  Below are some examples.  Am not taking anything away from their great accomplishments.  I do say with confidence, though, that it is likely these teams would not have had the success they had over the years if not for some of the classification changes.    

• In the 80's and 90's, St Thomas Aquinas routinely had to get through tough Miami-Dade teams (Homestead and South Dade) to get to the finals.  In the past 20 years, they have only had to play a limited number of Miami-Dade teams, ie Miami Springs, Miami Beach, Mater Academy, and most would consider those teams "weak."  
• In 2010, Cocoa won its 4 playoff games by a total of 15 points.  In the following year, when Florida made the change to 8 classes, Cocoa went to 4A and made the state semis by winning 2 playoff games by a total of 130-0.  
• In 2003, Florida split 2A into 2A and 2B.  Pahokee went to 2B and reeled off a series of state titles. 

[BrowardHandicapper]

23 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I share this to show how things have changed over time concerning the number of teams across all classes making the FHSAA playoffs.    The 1990's were a time a time of big change.  As a specific example, I have included the number of Miami-Dade teams across all classes who made the playoffs in a specific year.  

The $64million question...have the changes in classes/regions/districts accomplished what they were intended to do?  And does the current format provide for a better experience for players, coaches and fans?     

 1973 28 teams (2 Miami-Dade teams)

1978 56 teams (4 Miami-Dade teams)

1983 56 teams (6 Miami-Dade teams)

1988 56 teams (5 Miami-Dade teams)

1993 128 teams (7 Miami-Dade teams)

1998 160 teams (14 Miami-Dade teams)

2003 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

2008 192 teams (17 Miami-Dade teams)

2013 192 teams (16 Miami-Dade teams)

As far as the number of teams making the playoffs, how many teams are there playing HS football in FL in 2018 versus say 1980?

Is the overall increase in teams making the playoffs proportionate with overall increase in HS enrollment and state wide school growth?

[Hwy17]

One issue that has always been is the uneven growth of population in Florida between the coast, south Fl,  vs. the interior.  Classes are created by taking the schools, ranking in order from most populous to least, then dividing by the number of classes to get an even  number of schools in each class.  What happens when doing it this way is sometimes there is a large gap in enrollment numbers in some classes.  Back in 2003 that gap was why the smaller classes were cut in half to 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B.   I remember that year, the largest 2A schools had more than 1000 students while the smallest had something like 350; and the 1A schools were really small.  The 1A schools wanted a separation between those in rural and urban areas.  

[Hwy17]

In the late 70's and early 80's, Hardee would play as an independent because FHSAA would class us as 3A with schools nearly double our enrollment.  DeSoto, Sebring, Avon Park, Okeechobee, Palmetto and our other rivals were all 2A.   Some years those schools would go independent as well and in 1983 Hardee decided to play in a district.  

One issue is that Hardee, always has one of the highest drop out rates in the state. This is due to being a farming county and a high migrant labor population that would up and leave in the spring.  FHSAA makes us count them for population, then they leave.  Subtract that number, we drop a class.  

[OldSchoolLion]

This may or may not be representative of the scene in other counties.  ...using Miami-Dade as an example, clearly one of the "worst-case" scenarios in terms of growth.  25 out 33 current Miami-Dade public schools were in existence as of 1980.  4 public schools made the playoffs in 1980(3 in 4A and 1 in 3A)....or 16% of all public schools.  In 1988, 4/25 teams made the playoffs.  In 1993, 8/26 made the playoffs.  This past year, 14/33 Miami-Dade public schools, or about 42%, made the playoffs.   At least in the case of Miami-Dade, there were not a lot of new schools that popped up in the 1980's that justified the need for a lot more playoff slots in the 90's.  

Dates Miami-Dade Public Schools Were Established

Pre-1970 - 17 public schools existed 

1970's-American(1976), Hialeah Miami-Lakes(1971) Homestead(1979), N Miami Beach(1971), South Miami(1971), Southridge(1974) and Sunset(1978)

1980's-Braddock(1989)

1990's-Booker T Washington(1999), Dr Krop(1998), (1995)

2000's-Ferguson(2003), Hialeah Gardens(2009), Mourning(2009), Reagan/Doral(2005), Varela(2000), Westland-2008

[OldSchoolLion]

...another data point...in the past 10 years in Region 4 of Class 6A or 8A (the biggest classes at the time, 31/40(78%) first round playoff games were decided by 14 or more points.

Between 1985-1992, 4/16(25%) playoff games in the comparable region were decided by 14 points or more.  

[OldSchoolLion]

43 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

One issue that has always been is the uneven growth of population in Florida between the coast, south Fl,  vs. the interior.  Classes are created by taking the schools, ranking in order from most populous to least, then dividing by the number of classes to get an even  number of schools in each class.  What happens when doing it this way is sometimes there is a large gap in enrollment numbers in some classes.  Back in 2003 that gap was why the smaller classes were cut in half to 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B.   I remember that year, the largest 2A schools had more than 1000 students while the smallest had something like 350; and the 1A schools were really small.  The 1A schools wanted a separation between those in rural and urban areas.  

It seems like years ago there was an assumption that a certain percentage of kids in a school might play football, such that the bigger the school, the greater the advantage they had.  I don't recall seeing many small schools beat the big school powers 30+ years ago...at least not anything like today  

With the rise of private schools, college recruiting, and loose transfer rules, the assumptions that large schools have a bigger pool of talent are still valid, but not as strong.  For example I am confident that many smaller schools today in 1A could beat the pants off of certain larger schools (and they sometimes do).  ie north FL class 1A schools versus the 4A schools.

That's not to say that certain rural schools really are not at a disadvantage going up against a school twice their size.    

[Hwy17]

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

It seems like years ago there was an assumption that a certain percentage of kids in a school might play football, such that the bigger the school, the greater the advantage they had.  I don't recall seeing many small schools beat the big school powers 30+ years ago...at least not anything like today  

With the rise of private schools, college recruiting, and loose transfer rules, the assumptions that large schools have a bigger pool of talent are still valid, but not as strong.  For example I am confident that many smaller schools today in 1A could beat the pants off of certain larger schools (and they sometimes do).  ie north FL class 1A schools versus the 4A schools.

That's not to say that certain rural schools really are not at a disadvantage going up against a school twice their size.    

Absolutely agree!

[OldSchoolLion]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

One issue that has always been is the uneven growth of population in Florida between the coast, south Fl,  vs. the interior.  Classes are created by taking the schools, ranking in order from most populous to least, then dividing by the number of classes to get an even  number of schools in each class.  What happens when doing it this way is sometimes there is a large gap in enrollment numbers in some classes.  Back in 2003 that gap was why the smaller classes were cut in half to 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B.   I remember that year, the largest 2A schools had more than 1000 students while the smallest had something like 350; and the 1A schools were really small.  The 1A schools wanted a separation between those in rural and urban areas.  

*=state champion

In 2002, Class 2A had 41 public schools and 28 Private schools

1999-2002 state finalists Clewiston, *Frosproof, *Madison County, Marianna, *Bolles, Chaminade, *Gulliver, Trinity Christian

 

In 2003, with splitting of 2A into 2A and 2B...

Class 2A-22public and 10 private schools

Class 2B-22 public schools and 15 private schools

2003-2006  state finalists Clewiston, Madison County, *Immokalee, *Pahokee, South Sumter, Union County, *Bolles, *Chaminade, Penscaola Catholic, *Trinity Catholic

 

NOTE: Pahokee and Union County were the only public schools that moved to 2B in 2003 and potentially benefitted... by reaching a state final in 2B, something they did not do in Class 2A.  Private schools schools won 50% of state titles in 2A/2B between 2003-2006, the same percentage of state titles they won under the 2A model.  

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Absolutely agree!

Perfect example Dillard last year vs Chaminade Dillard has about 1500-2000 easy Chaminade has about wat 500 but yet would have ran Dillard off the field. 

Oxbridge same thing dress roughly 25-30 players who play both ways all game but yet can still beat 85% of Florida schools by 30+ 

[Zoe Boy]

15 hours ago, "PANTHER NATiON" (WE HERE) said:

Perfect example Dillard last year vs Chaminade Dillard has about 1500-2000 easy Chaminade has about wat 500 but yet would have ran Dillard off the field. 

Oxbridge same thing dress roughly 25-30 players who play both ways all game but yet can still beat 85% of Florida schools by 30+ 

They not beating 85% of Florida schools by 30.. Stop the blasphemy...

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

4 hours ago, Zoe Boy said:

They not beating 85% of Florida schools by 30.. Stop the blasphemy...

Blasphemy ? Zoe there is not a lot of power houses or a lot of teams that can run with teams like that. 

There is only like 15-20 actual power house schools in all of Florida that can compete with almost anybody. If that.

[OldSchoolLion]

5 hours ago, Zoe Boy said:

They not beating 85% of Florida schools by 30.. Stop the blasphemy...

There are approximately 500 schools amongst the 8 classes.  15% of 500 is 75.  I would not bet my house on it, but also would not be surprised if Oxbridge could have beaten the other 425 pretty badly.  There are a lot of very mediocre teams amongst those 425.

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

31 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There are approximately 500 schools amongst the 8 classes.  15% of 500 is 75.  I would not bet my house on it, but also would not be surprised if Oxbridge could have beaten the other 425 pretty badly.  There are a lot of very mediocre teams amongst those 425.

Exactly and only about 10 consistent powerhouses STA iMG? Who else can run with those other two on a consistent bases ...central the west maybe ? Wekiva veria...at home if everything goes right ? Maybe but that’s still not even 10’schools 

[BrowardHandicapper]

So let me ask both of you this-  How do you feel 7A North last year would have competed against the 3A North Champion Oxbridge Academy?

[OldSchoolLion]

10 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

So let me ask both of you this-  How do you feel 7A North last year would have competed against the 3A North Champion Oxbridge Academy?

Why do you ask?

[BrowardHandicapper]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Why do you ask?

 

Posted 53 minutes ago:

53 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There are approximately 500 schools amongst the 8 classes.  15% of 500 is 75.  I would not bet my house on it, but also would not be surprised if Oxbridge could have beaten the other 425 pretty badly.  There are a lot of very mediocre teams amongst those 425.

 

Considering there was reference to Oxbridge competing with teams statewide and you actually replied to it in a tad of detail , I simply would like you to break down just a tad further to 7A North.  No problem if you don't want to,  I just did not feel it was too far off topic.  All good either way.

[OldSchoolLion]

17 minutes ago, BrowardHandicapper said:

 

Posted 53 minutes ago:

 

Considering there was reference to Oxbridge competing with teams statewide and you actually replied to it in a tad of detail , I simply would like you to break down just a tad further to 7A North.  No problem if you don't want to,  I just did not feel it was too far off topic.  All good either way.

I was impressed by Oxbridge at full strength.  I think games involving them and Venice or Bartram Train would have been interesting., offensive shootouts.  Those were the only two teams in 7A north I saw play.

[badbird]

venice was south

[Zoe Boy]

12 hours ago, "PANTHER NATiON" (WE HERE) said:

Blasphemy ? Zoe there is not a lot of power houses or a lot of teams that can run with teams like that. 

There is only like 15-20 actual power house schools in all of Florida that can compete with almost anybody. If that.

Is Oxbridge a powerhouse?

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

On 6/9/2018 at 12:18 AM, Zoe Boy said:

Is Oxbridge a powerhouse?

I would call them one.