Thoughts about IMG

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, badbird said:

hmm so IMG was sandbagging in a meaningless game?

Well I can't know for sure because even when i watched the stream i have no idea how many of their studs were in there

 

I know they had Trey Sanders and Noah Cain and they had Nolan Smith in there for a bit but the rest is a question mark because i wasn't exactly charting subbing from the stands

[DisabledAccount]

Heck i don't even chart our subs

 

How i supposed to do IMG too

 

I didn't even have a roster with me,  i only charted a few of the skill position players who played either at the game because of intercom announcing names as plays were made or while listening to replay broadcast 

[DisabledAccount]

I really should be wearing glasses while in the stands because i usually struggle to see the numbers on the field or on the scoreboard 

[gwdrum75]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

 One of the "out of shape" guys we saw on IMGS's dline against Columbia was 6'4" 320-pound Deyavie Hammond, an offenive lineman from Lakeland. 

Hammond is back at Lakeland for his senior year. He wanted to come back home and get a chance to play for a state championship. 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Valid points.   IMG was playing some kids on defense in the Columbia game and it is pretty obvious they were trying to get them reps.  I watched tapes and confirmed numbers.  The IMG guys getting owned on the edge were not their big names Nolan Smith and Trevon Riggins.  I saw one play where Smith blew by his Columbia blocker.  

Apparently IMG shut down Pine-Richland's offense and held them to 75 yards total offense.  I read that Smith terrorized the offense.  One of the "out of shape" guys we saw on IMGS's dline against Columbia was 6'4" 320-pound Deyavie Hammond, an offenive lineman from Lakeland.   They also played a kid named Hank Greathouse who is a senior and is not even rated.  There was yet another no-name fellow who got reps on the Dline, too  They also gave reps to a linebacker who is not one of their top 3. 

From a common sense perspective, it would not have made sense to play someone like Smith the whole half in a low-profile scrimmage and risk injury.  If I was a coach in a program that charges $50-75k per year tuition like IMG, I would make it a priority to get some of the lower profile players(especially seniors) some reps so that mom/dad would be pleased...recognizing that such opportunities might be limited during the regular season.  IMG has a roster of well over 100 players.  Think there is some pressure on the coaches to find playing time?

Yea I'm aware that it sometimes costs people between 50-100k a year to attend IMG but my understanding is that the ones on national team are given scholarships which leads to the white team players basically having to pay so they can give those scholarships lol

 

However why would IMG want to risk losing (even in a scrimmage) in one of the few home games when they already struggle to bring fans out which i can attest to at our game that it appeared through eye test i saw more purple than blue in the stands

 

Especially when loss (preseason or not)  could damage their unbeatable reputation and reputation that scares teams when they line up

[OldSchoolLion]

4 minutes ago, gwdrum75 said:

Hammond is back at Lakeland for his senior year. He wanted to come back home and get a chance to play for a state championship. 

Wow, thanks.  Then I don't know who that fellow was who was wearing his old number, then.  Whoever he was, he was a big boy who needed to lose some pounds.

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, gwdrum75 said:

Hammond is back at Lakeland for his senior year. He wanted to come back home and get a chance to play for a state championship. 

Yeah i remember you mentioning that 

 

How did lakeland look last night?  I heard someone on the national board saying this lakeland defense might be better than those who dominated STA in mid 00s

[gwdrum75]

Just now, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah i remember you mentioning that 

 

How did lakeland look last night?  I heard someone on the national board saying this lakeland defense might be better than those who dominated STA in mid 00s

Only question mark I see on defense is the corners. But Castle will adjust that. Both lines (D & O) are pretty solid, especially with Hammond back. Summerall just started practicing this week, but played well against Manatee. He’ll get even better when he Learns more of the defense. The right side of the O-Line could resemble 05-06 Pouncey line. If Demarcus Bowman gets a hole, he’s gone. Kid just has blazing speed. And sees the field so well. I think he had around 250+ yds & 3 TDs last night. Lakeland is loaded with weapons. Last few years it was strictly skilled positions. This year its everywhere. As always with Lakeland, it’s discipline and not playing down to your opponent. 

[OldSchoolLion]

11 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yea I'm aware that it sometimes costs people between 50-100k a year to attend IMG but my understanding is that the ones on national team are given scholarships which leads to the white team players basically having to pay so they can give those scholarships lol

 

However why would IMG want to risk losing (even in a scrimmage) in one of the few home games when they already struggle to bring fans out which i can attest to at our game that it appeared through eye test i saw more purple than blue in the stands

 

Especially when loss (preseason or not)  could damage their unbeatable reputation and reputation that scares teams when they line up

Some of us have already tried explaining.  Not all share the same mindset about preseason.  A loss in a scrimmage is not going to damage IMG's reputation, as long as they are winning the games that count and getting athletes placed at prestigious colleges.  With what they charge there and the money that is on the line, they would have won if they truly believed a preseason scrimmage could cost them their reputation.  Otherwise, their coaching staff would have been fired by now.   

Apparently Columbia's coach is ready to move on from IMG, and he has a lot more ownership than you.  So, how about taking his lead and moving on instead of upsetting yourself. 

https://www.lakecityreporter.com/sports/prep-football-allen-wants-columbia-move-img

 

[Proseteye]

In conclusion, my take on all of this is that some folks, and I have noticed far too many coaches, put much too much emphasis on pre season games than there should be. Pre season games are nothing but scrimmages designed for coaches and also the players to assess their formations, plays, and capabilities in real time situations. If a HC is doing his job correctly then he is much less interested in the outcome of a scrimmage than he is in coalescing the team for the regular season. In this respect I admire the professionalism of Mike Vollmar, AD and Kevin Wright, HC of IMG. I am quite sure that the Columbia HC was also interested in doing the right thing by giving all of his roster playing time regardless of what team they had a scrimmage against. It's nice to "win" a scrimmage but much much better and more realistic to use the scrimmage as a development tool for the regular season.

[DisabledAccount]

31 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

In conclusion, my take on all of this is that some folks, and I have noticed far too many coaches, put much too much emphasis on pre season games than there should be. Pre season games are nothing but scrimmages designed for coaches and also the players to assess their formations, plays, and capabilities in real time situations. If a HC is doing his job correctly then he is much less interested in the outcome of a scrimmage than he is in coalescing the team for the regular season. In this respect I admire the professionalism of Mike Vollmar, AD and Kevin Wright, HC of IMG. I am quite sure that the Columbia HC was also interested in doing the right thing by giving all of his roster playing time regardless of what team they had a scrimmage against. It's nice to "win" a scrimmage but much much better and more realistic to use the scrimmage as a development tool for the regular season.

Columbia normally subs players in and out to keep the players on the field the best ones out there throughout the game

 

This is similar to other teams with large rosters who have depth, we don't have to play the same 22 players every snap so even if we are keeping starters in we are still giving a lot of other players reps throughout the game and in many games (like Gainesville this past Friday) they will put backups in late unless the game is still in doubt

 

In fact we had backups in for offense (and i guess defense as well but i couldn't tell from where i was standing at that point)  during final 8 or so minutes even though had we left starters out we could have probably made that win look a lot stronger

 

The problem I didn't like was we played this game so we could see where we are at against elite competition that we basically never see because IMG is only team that gives us a look at who we could potentially face at states,  this team is building itself to go after that trip to Orlando this season

 

By IMG throwing a mix team there is now no real way to know how we would do for sure and that could hurt us later by giving us a false sense of confidence and at same time makes us the team with biggest target in entire state

 

Had IMG and Columbia previously agreed to play it like this i wouldn't be bothered but what bothers me was we were punished because IMG white had their opponent cancel on them last second and the fact that some of our coaches weren't aware until @nolebull813 mentioned it at halftime makes me wonder if IMG even told our coaches

 

Columbia never prepared to face the white team, they were preparing to face the national team for 4 quarters

 

It wasn't about winning the scrimmage but instead it was more about testing the waters against a elite team to prepare them for later in the season 

[DisabledAccount]

40 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

In conclusion, my take on all of this is that some folks, and I have noticed far too many coaches, put much too much emphasis on pre season games than there should be. Pre season games are nothing but scrimmages designed for coaches and also the players to assess their formations, plays, and capabilities in real time situations. If a HC is doing his job correctly then he is much less interested in the outcome of a scrimmage than he is in coalescing the team for the regular season. In this respect I admire the professionalism of Mike Vollmar, AD and Kevin Wright, HC of IMG. I am quite sure that the Columbia HC was also interested in doing the right thing by giving all of his roster playing time regardless of what team they had a scrimmage against. It's nice to "win" a scrimmage but much much better and more realistic to use the scrimmage as a development tool for the regular season.

Sometimes i wonder if we should just drop kickoff classic and have a 11th game instead 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

40 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

In conclusion, my take on all of this is that some folks, and I have noticed far too many coaches, put much too much emphasis on pre season games than there should be. Pre season games are nothing but scrimmages designed for coaches and also the players to assess their formations, plays, and capabilities in real time situations. If a HC is doing his job correctly then he is much less interested in the outcome of a scrimmage than he is in coalescing the team for the regular season. In this respect I admire the professionalism of Mike Vollmar, AD and Kevin Wright, HC of IMG. I am quite sure that the Columbia HC was also interested in doing the right thing by giving all of his roster playing time regardless of what team they had a scrimmage against. It's nice to "win" a scrimmage but much much better and more realistic to use the scrimmage as a development tool for the regular season.

Appreciate the comments.  There is so much desperation to get another data point to make rankings and polls, now we are considering spring games and scrimmages.  We are obsessed.   Everything must be a "result" so we can compare ourselves versus others.    

IMO the focus should be on executing fundamentals as close to perfection as possible.  One doesn't need a ranked team to scrimmage against to evaluate fundamental execution.  

IMG's coaches have 60 seniors on their roster..and not just "average" seniors.  These are seniors with aspirations and whose parents likely have very high expectations of the school.  And then there are the underclassmen.  These are not the typical underclassmen happy to ride the bench and wait their turn to get playing time.  

It must be an incredible balancing act.  I'm sure IMG wants to perform well in games but also must feel a lot more pressure than most coaches to "keep everyone happy."  I am sure there are kids/parents who feel a certain amount of entitlement because they/their kid is at IMG.  When push comes to shove, I would bet IMG's coaches are going to do what they think is right for the kids, who are their "clients."

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Appreciate the comments.  There is so much desperation to get another data point to make rankings and polls, now we are considering spring games and scrimmages.  We are obsessed.   Everything must be a "result" so we can compare ourselves versus others.    

IMO the focus should be on executing fundamentals as close to perfection as possible.  One doesn't need a ranked team to scrimmage against to evaluate fundamental execution.  

IMG's coaches have 60 seniors on their roster..and not just "average" seniors.  These are seniors with aspirations and whose parents likely have very high expectations of the school.  And then there are the underclassmen.  These are not the typical underclassmen happy to ride the bench and wait their turn to get playing time.  

It must be an incredible balancing act.  I'm sure IMG wants to perform well in games but also must feel a lot more pressure than most coaches to "keep everyone happy."  I am sure there are kids/parents who feel a certain amount of entitlement because they/their kid is at IMG.  When push comes to shove, I would bet IMG's coaches are going to do what they think is right for the kids, who are their "clients."

This is actually very spot on

 

You have parents out there paying IMG 70k or more a year so their kid can play on the white team and be able to say their kid is a "IMG Athlete"

 

On some levels i commend these parents for putting so much money in to prop their kid up but sometimes you have to wonder are they really doing it for their kid or are they using their kid as a point of bragging or trying to live out past glories through their kid which has been documented many times (not just IMG) this seems to be a negative in society that parents will use kids to make themselves appear big and sometimes a place like IMG isn't for all kids so paying so much money just to attach the IMG name seems irresponsible 

[OldSchoolLion]

41 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Columbia normally subs players in and out to keep the players on the field the best ones out there throughout the game

 

This is similar to other teams with large rosters who have depth, we don't have to play the same 22 players every snap so even if we are keeping starters in we are still giving a lot of other players reps throughout the game and in many games (like Gainesville this past Friday) they will put backups in late unless the game is still in doubt

 

In fact we had backups in for offense (and i guess defense as well but i couldn't tell from where i was standing at that point)  during final 8 or so minutes even though had we left starters out we could have probably made that win look a lot stronger

 

The problem I didn't like was we played this game so we could see where we are at against elite competition that we basically never see because IMG is only team that gives us a look at who we could potentially face at states,  this team is building itself to go after that trip to Orlando this season

 

By IMG throwing a mix team there is now no real way to know how we would do for sure and that could hurt us later by giving us a false sense of confidence and at same time makes us the team with biggest target in entire state

 

Had IMG and Columbia previously agreed to play it like this i wouldn't be bothered but what bothers me was we were punished because IMG white had their opponent cancel on them last second and the fact that some of our coaches weren't aware until @nolebull813 mentioned it at halftime makes me wonder if IMG even told our coaches

 

Columbia never prepared to face the white team, they were preparing to face the national team for 4 quarters

 

It wasn't about winning the scrimmage but instead it was more about testing the waters against a elite team to prepare them for later in the season 

For many years, hs football coaches evaluated their teams and prepared them to compete for a state title without all of the fancy stuff we have today, including high-profile scrimmages.  We judged our progress based on what we were seeing on the practice field day-to-day.  We didn't need polls or scrimmages against ranked teams to tell us where we stood.  Scrimmages can be a useful tool, but absolutely not for telling a coach, "We have arrived."  

If I inherited a 7A team that won 1 district title in the past 5 years and could not figure out how to get past a good 1A team in my backyard, my focus would be on preparing my team to face those locals. "Winning" a preseason scrimmage against some big name does not necessarily tell me anything about how well we will perform against those local teams who have eaten our lunch in the recent past. 

If my team beat a big program in a scrimmage, I would gather the boys together and tell them "Until you prove otherwise, you are 2-time district runners-up and little brother to the 1A school down the road.  And I don't want to hear different until you prove otherwise."

 

 

[Guest]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:14 AM, Proseteye said:

Once again, the IMG pre season and the regular season are like night and day. I see this every year with IMG. My take on it is that it's difficult to get an assorted group of super stars working as a team until it really matters. They know that recruiters will not be watching nor attending pre season games (glorified scrimmages) for the most part. 

Not true. For example, spring football games will have the most college coaches attending. It works out like that because they are finished with their own spring football and are all on the recruiting trail visiting schools and doing home visits. 

[gatorman-uf]

On 8/25/2018 at 2:47 PM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

It's ridiculous 

We signed up to play their national team not some mixed team

And now we got a target on our back that we didn't need and really didn't prove anything 

Let me repeat it very slowly for you... P-----R-----E-----S-----E-----A-----S-----O-----N!

I told you from the beginning the actual results do not matter, your chest beating after the game is the reason you have the target on your back and unholy expectations of a state championships. Instead of taking the game as a preseason match which is what it was. Instead, you tried to make it out like you were world beaters. Don't be surprised when the world responds.