St Thomas Has More Top-Tier Than Any Team in the US

[OldSchoolLion]

Below are the top 10 teams in the US (per Maxpreps) and the number of 3, 4 and 5-star players on each team.  Obviously, I didn't do this exercise for every hs team in the country, so cannot be certain STA is #1 in talent.  But I would be extremely surprised if there are any other teams out there with 25+ 3-star and up players.  Even IMG does not have 25.  

Note the low numbers for the two public schools from Texas.  Both schools are in affluent suburbs of talent-rich Dallas/Fort Worth, and have excellent facilities, coaches and public support.  The talent in Texas, where there are very few private school powerhouses, seems to be much more spread out than in Florida and California.  So, possibly Texas teams rely more upon overall team play and sound fundamentals than individual talent.  

All 3 of the schools in California are in the Los Angles area.  Note the huge difference between the public school and the 2 private schools.  Mater Dei and St John Bosco are currently #1 and #2 in the poll.   

*=public school

St Thomas Aquinas(FL)- 5-star(1), 4-star(10), 3-star(14) = 25 players     Note:(8) 4-star players on defense

St John Bosco(CA)- 5-star(1), 4-star(7), 3-star(16) = 24 players

IMG Academy(FL)- 5-star(2), 4-star(10), 3-star(11) = 23 players

Mater Dei(CA)- 5-star(3), 4-star(7), 3-star(9) = 19 players

St John's (DC)- 5-star(1), 4-star(4), 3-star(8) = 13 players 

*Grayson(GA)- 5-star(2), 4-star(3), 3-star(7) = 12 players

St Frances(MD)- 5-star(1), 4-star(7), 3-star(4) = 12 players

*Allen(TX)- 5-star(1), 4-star(1), 3-star(5) = 7 players

*Centennial(CA)- 5-star(0), 4-star(2), 3-star(3) = 5 players

*Lake Travis(TX)- 5-star(1), 4-star(1), 3-star(0) = 2 players

 

..for some perspective, St. Thomas' 2015 team...5-star(1), 4-star(3), 3-star(18) = 22 players

 

2018 STA OFFENSE

Mariano Valenti-QB(Sr) (3-star)

Curt Casteel-QB(Sr) (3-star)

Nigel White-RB(Sr) (3-star)

Daniel Carter-RB(Sr) (3-star)

Marcus Rosemy-WR(Jr) (5-star)

Jahvante Royal-WR(Jr) (4-star)

Jamal Cooney-WR(Sr) (3-star)

Xavier Restrepo-WR(Jr) (3-star)

Marcus Dumervil-OL(Jr) (4-star)

Vincent Murphy-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Jake Pope-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Julian Hernandez-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Jovan Ferguson-ATH(Jr) (3-star)

 

2018 STA DEFENSE

Tyreak Sapp-DE(Soph) (4-star)

Braylen Ingraham-DE(Sr) (4-star)

Jason Munoz-DE(Sr) (3-star)

Anthony Solomon-LB(Sr) (4-star)

Avery Huff-LB(Sr) (4-star)

Derek Wingo-LB(Jr) (4-star) 

Devon Betty-LB(Jr) (4-star)

Jahmar Brown-LB(Sr) (3-star)

Semar Melvin-CB(Sr) (3-star)

Myles Bell-CB(Sr) (3-star)

Jaden Davis-CB (Sr) (4-star)

Jordan Battle-S (Sr) (4-star)

[Pipe Dreams]

Why are they not classified like IMG?

Losing an in-state game with that amount of talent is the equivalent of a losing season, IMO. 

As usual I'm hoping a public school with guys who have played together for 5+ years shows them the business.

[Zoe Boy]

5 minutes ago, Pipe Dreams said:

Why are they not classified like IMG?

Losing an in-state game with that amount of talent is the equivalent of a losing season, IMO. 

As usual I'm hoping a public school with guys who have played together for 5+ years shows them the business.

Ah man we at this again? Lmao!!! Name me a school that have their team with players that played with players that been there all 5 years like you say...

[Pipe Dreams]

You didn't answer the question I had.

By the way, too many schools to name with players who have played together for years. Most go 5-5, 6-4, 7-4, 8-3... but there are some good programs out there that are bottom up. Apopka, Winter Park, Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, DP all have good feeder systems from Pop Warner and a large chunk of the kids play together for years. It was like that on my HS team. 

I'm just saying I hope somebody beats them.

I prefer HS football to be void of all star teams, which STA clearly is. I think it cheapens the game at the HS level. Care about it.

[Zoe Boy]

27 minutes ago, Pipe Dreams said:

You didn't answer the question I had.

By the way, too many schools to name with players who have played together for years. Most go 5-5, 6-4, 7-4, 8-3... but there are some good programs out there that are bottom up. Apopka, Winter Park, Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, DP all have good feeder systems from Pop Warner and a large chunk of the kids play together for years. It was like that on my HS team. 

I'm just saying I hope somebody beats them.

I prefer HS football to be void of all star teams, which STA clearly is. I think it cheapens the game at the HS level. Care about it.

So you don’t think them players at STA never played together in pop warner or against each other? Let me ask you this all those schools you mention has one pop Warner  feeder program or it’s a mixture of programs? N as for them being treated like IMG , why cause it’s a private school that been here ever since i was born (1983) ... Their roster is mainly made up of Broward kids sprinkled in with some Dade kids... One more thing to add on, don’t upset at STA for kids and parents  wanting to go there.. It’s not there fault... As it cheapens the game that’s your opinion cause nobody down here is complaining about STA... Strap them up and let’s ride.. Atleast down here it is... Let me know since STA is “stack” why their qb don’t scare anyone.. Their offense don’t scare anyone.. I can name atleast 10-15 QB’s that’s better then anything STA has...

[Zoe Boy]

Once again y’all going by what y’all see on paper.. Lmao

[Pipe Dreams]

I don't care as much as you may think I do. I root for STA against out-of-state teams and don't mind the "if you build it they will come" logic. 

I just prefer that Florida public schools win titles as opposed to schools that are stacked to the brim with transfers. That's too synthetic for me.

High school football is geographically focused. I like it being one town against another town. That's the urban planner in me. I'm old school I guess.

[954gator]

1 hour ago, Pipe Dreams said:

Why are they not classified like IMG?

Losing an in-state game with that amount of talent is the equivalent of a losing season, IMO. 

As usual I'm hoping a public school with guys who have played together for 5+ years shows them the business.

Because they're a normal private school.   South Fl just happens to be a stacked area.    

[OldSchoolLion]

Below are current rankings for metro areas where there are relatively large numbers of private schools.  Many of these schools are older, Catholic institutions.  Am sharing this to demonstrate that some of Florida's "challenges" concerning public/private parity are not unique.  For the conspiracy theorists out there, there is no hidden message.  The data is what it is.      

*private schools

Current Maryland Rankings

*1. St John's

*2. St Frances Academy 

*3. Dematha

*4. Our Lady of Good Counsel

*5. Gonzaga

6. Wise (Wise has no 2-star or above players)

*7. McDonogh School

*8. Archbishop Spalding

*9. Mount St Joseph

*10. Bullis School

*11. Calvert Hall

 

Current Los Angles Rankings

*1. St John Bosco

*2. Mater Dei

3. Centennial

*4. Oaks Christian

*5. Orange Lutheran

6. Mission Viejo

7. Upland

8. Long Beach Poly

9. Cajon

*10. J Serra Catholic

11. Narbonne

*12. Serra (Gardena)

*13. Chaminade 

14. Calabasas

*15. Santa margarita

*16. Servite

17. Liberty

*18 Bishop Amat  

19. Rancho Verde

20. Norco

 

[954gator]

Another thing to take into account is that the rating services tend to be all over the big privates.   I'm certain if some other schools were looked at as closely as STA they might have more kids rated.    

[OldSchoolLion]

12 minutes ago, 954gator said:

Another thing to take into account is that the rating services tend to be all over the big privates.   I'm certain if some other schools were looked at as closely as STA they might have more kids rated.    

I agree.  And it is a concern of mine that these rating services are influencing the kids(ie decisions where they attend) and impacting the game in a negative way that will compromise the game's future, as least as we know hs football now.  There are all kinds of opportunity for unethical behavior.

It wasn't until computers, widespread player ratings and polls that things went crazy with the kids.   

   

 

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Pipe Dreams said:

I don't care as much as you may think I do. I root for STA against out-of-state teams and don't mind the "if you build it they will come" logic. 

I just prefer that Florida public schools win titles as opposed to schools that are stacked to the brim with transfers. That's too synthetic for me.

High school football is geographically focused. I like it being one town against another town. That's the urban planner in me. I'm old school I guess.

I appreciate your comments and know where you are coming from.  I try not to be too sentimental and accept change.  To Zoe Boy's point, some folks may not care that certain schools have disproportionate amounts of talent and say "bring it on."

What concerns me is the picture being seen by mainstream America...the parents of the "average" 12 year-old kid deciding if they want him to play football.  We all need to take a step back from our football bubble and put ourselves in the shoes of an "average" mom who sees a team like St Thomas Aquinas and IMG on TV and thinks of her dear little boy getting crushed by one of these gargantuan kids.   

What us hardcore football junkies think is really not that important.  We're the minority.  In certain areas of the country, they are experiencing substantial dropoffs in hs football participation.  In Illinois, football is in the midst of a nine-year decline in participation. In 2008, 51,334 students played football.  There were 42,682 students playing football in Illinois in 2016-17.

Just as there may be some kids/parents who say "bring it on," there may be just as many or more saying "why bother," especially in a football hotbed like south Florida.  A father of a teenager today may have played high school football 30 years ago.  The game he is seeing today, and the size/speed of the players is scary.  I can understand him advising his son to take up another sport.      

[954gator]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I agree.  And it is a concern of mine that these rating services are influencing the kids(ie decisions where they attend) and impacting the game in a negative way that will compromise the game's future, as least as we know hs football now.  There are all kinds of opportunity for unethical behavior.

It wasn't until computers, widespread player ratings and polls that things went crazy with the kids.   

   

 

Agreed.   Camps play a large part as well, but that came with recruiting services. 

[Cat_Scratch]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:45 AM, OldSchoolLion said:

Below are the top 10 teams in the US (per Maxpreps) and the number of 3, 4 and 5-star players on each team.  Obviously, I didn't do this exercise for every hs team in the country, so cannot be certain STA is #1 in talent.  But I would be extremely surprised if there are any other teams out there with 25+ 3-star and up players.  Even IMG does not have 25.  

Note the low numbers for the two public schools from Texas.  Both schools are in affluent suburbs of talent-rich Dallas/Fort Worth, and have excellent facilities, coaches and public support.  The talent in Texas, where there are very few private school powerhouses, seems to be much more spread out than in Florida and California.  So, possibly Texas teams rely more upon overall team play and sound fundamentals than individual talent.  

All 3 of the schools in California are in the Los Angles area.  Note the huge difference between the public school and the 2 private schools.  Mater Dei and St John Bosco are currently #1 and #2 in the poll.   

*=public school

St Thomas Aquinas(FL)- 5-star(1), 4-star(10), 3-star(14) = 25 players     Note:(8) 4-star players on defense

St John Bosco(CA)- 5-star(1), 4-star(7), 3-star(16) = 24 players

IMG Academy(FL)- 5-star(2), 4-star(10), 3-star(11) = 23 players

Mater Dei(CA)- 5-star(3), 4-star(7), 3-star(9) = 19 players

St John's (DC)- 5-star(1), 4-star(4), 3-star(8) = 13 players 

*Grayson(GA)- 5-star(2), 4-star(3), 3-star(7) = 12 players

St Frances(MD)- 5-star(1), 4-star(6), 3-star(4) = 11 players

*Allen(TX)- 5-star(1), 4-star(1), 3-star(5) = 7 players

*Centennial(CA)- 5-star(0), 4-star(2), 3-star(3) = 5 players

*Lake Travis(TX)- 5-star(1), 4-star(1), 3-star(0) = 2 players

 

..for some perspective, St. Thomas' 2015 team...5-star(1), 4-star(3), 3-star(18) = 22 players

 

2018 STA OFFENSE

Mariano Valenti-QB(Sr) (3-star)

Curt Casteel-QB(Sr) (3-star)

Nigel White-RB(Sr) (3-star)

Daniel Carter-RB(Sr) (3-star)

Marcus Rosemy-WR(Jr) (5-star)

Jahvante Royal-WR(Jr) (4-star)

Jamal Cooney-WR(Sr) (3-star)

Xavier Restrepo-WR(Jr) (3-star)

Marcus Dumervil-OL(Jr) (4-star)

Vincent Murphy-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Jake Pope-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Julian Hernandez-OL(Sr) (3-star)

Jovan Ferguson-ATH(Jr) (3-star)

 

2018 STA DEFENSE

Tyreak Sapp-DE(Soph) (4-star)

Braylen Ingraham-DE(Sr) (4-star)

Jason Munoz-DE(Sr) (3-star)

Anthony Solomon-LB(Sr) (4-star)

Avery Huff-LB(Sr) (4-star)

Derek Wingo-LB(Jr) (4-star) 

Devon Betty-LB(Jr) (4-star)

Jahmar Brown-LB(Sr) (3-star)

Semar Melvin-CB(Sr) (3-star)

Myles Bell-CB(Sr) (3-star)

Jaden Davis-CB (Sr) (4-star)

Jordan Battle-S (Sr) (4-star)

⭐⭐⭐Very good. I think this should be on the national form  also.⭐⭐ ⭐

 

[Cat_Scratch]

On 8/28/2018 at 10:56 AM, Pipe Dreams said:

You didn't answer the question I had.

By the way, too many schools to name with players who have played together for years. Most go 5-5, 6-4, 7-4, 8-3... but there are some good programs out there that are bottom up. Apopka, Winter Park, Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, DP all have good feeder systems from Pop Warner and a large chunk of the kids play together for years. It was like that on my HS team. 

I'm just saying I hope somebody beats them.

I prefer HS football to be void of all star teams, which STA clearly is. I think it cheapens the game at the HS level. Care about it.

I like what you are sayin, but we all know the days of little transfers are gone. We either play the all-star teams, or we don't.

[Cat_Scratch]

On 8/28/2018 at 11:03 AM, Zoe Boy said:

So you don’t think them players at STA never played together in pop warner or against each other? Let me ask you this all those schools you mention has one pop Warner  feeder program or it’s a mixture of programs? N as for them being treated like IMG , why cause it’s a private school that been here ever since i was born (1983) ... Their roster is mainly made up of Broward kids sprinkled in with some Dade kids... One more thing to add on, don’t upset at STA for kids and parents  wanting to go there.. It’s not there fault... As it cheapens the game that’s your opinion cause nobody down here is complaining about STA... Strap them up and let’s ride.. Atleast down here it is... Let me know since STA is “stack” why their qb don’t scare anyone.. Their offense don’t scare anyone.. I can name atleast 10-15 QB’s that’s better then anything STA has...

I agree with Zoe, STA can and has been beat by programs in the south and central areas in the last few years.

The feeder systems put these kids together everywhere, not just in south Florida. My grandsons text other athletes in Brevard outside there school zone. They play travel league together, Cocoa, Rockledge, Merritt Island, etc... in all sports. 2 of my grandsons play league ball and high school ball. One lives in Rockledge, plays hs Baseball for Cocoa, and league football for Merritt Island. Another plays baseball for Merritt Island while his brother wrestles for Cocoa.

Zoe is right, they all know each other through friends and sports way more than they did in my day.

 

[Jags904]

On 8/28/2018 at 11:44 AM, Pipe Dreams said:

I don't care as much as you may think I do. I root for STA against out-of-state teams and don't mind the "if you build it they will come" logic. 

I just prefer that Florida public schools win titles as opposed to schools that are stacked to the brim with transfers. That's too synthetic for me.

High school football is geographically focused. I like it being one town against another town. That's the urban planner in me. I'm old school I guess.

Oh yeah because there aren’t public schools that are stacked with transfers. Please, there are public schools who gain like 25 kids in a year. 

 

The days of it being one town against another are over, especially south of the 904

[OldSchoolLion]

42 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said:

I agree with Zoe, STA can and has been beat by programs in the south and central areas in the last few years.

The feeder systems put these kids together everywhere, not just in south Florida. My grandsons text other athletes in Brevard outside there school zone. They play travel league together, Cocoa, Rockledge, Merritt Island, etc... in all sports. 2 of my grandsons play league ball and high school ball. One lives in Rockledge, plays hs Baseball for Cocoa, and league football for Merritt Island. Another plays baseball for Merritt Island while his brother wrestles for Cocoa.

Zoe is right, they all know each other through friends and sports way more than they did in my day.

 

All of these powerhouses can be beat.  This is where coaching comes in and where folks are possibly missing the boat.  It's pretty much a given that an "average" team is not going to have the individual talent of an STA, AHP, Northwestern, etc.  So, you are not going to outdo them on speed or athleticism.  Don't even try.  So how can you beat them?  ..and  am not saying it's easy, either

• mental toughness/maturity-I have seen some "great" hs teams absolutely fall apart after getting punched in the mouth.  The kids lacked mental maturity, ie how to constructively deal with adversity.  Beat them with your head.   
• line play-relatively speaking, line play in Florida is lagging, even on some of the elite teams.  This is a place where one could gain an edge.  And you don't need huge lineman either...an agile, 250-pounder who can move can be deadly.  
• qb play-some teams here may struggle with one of these big, pro-style passers you see on the West Coast.  Dual-threat qb's are a dime a dozen and everyone gets lots of practice playing against them.
• power running game-nearly 40 years ago, a hs rb back named Hershel Walker was 6'1" 220 lbs.  Or another guy named Earl Walker.  Kids today would struggle to handle them.  We have moved so much to 180 lb backs to squeeze that extra 0.1 seconds of 40 speed out of them. Speed is not everything.  

The University of Wisconsin basketball team is notorious for overperforming.  Long ago, one of the best coaches in the business, Dick Bennett, figured out that he could not play run-and-gun with the type of players he was getting there.  So, he instituted a game plan that leveraged the talents he had, and neutralized the strengths of the types of teams he was playing.  People thought he was crazy and that the game was incredibly boring.  20 years later he has been recognized as a genius.   

 

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

9 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

Oh yeah because there aren’t public schools that are stacked with transfers. Please, there are public schools who gain like 25 kids in a year. 

 

The days of it being one town against another are over, especially south of the 904

25 "varsity quality" kids in one year?     

[Jags904]

Just now, OldSchoolLion said:

25 "varsity quality" kids in one year?     

Maybe not 25 quality but there are more public schools getting guys than private schools. 

[OldSchoolLion]

Just now, Jags904 said:

Maybe not 25 quality but there are more public schools getting guys than private schools. 

The issue in Florida is that many of the public schools who are getting the "good" transfers are not in the same classes as Chaminade, AHP, Cardinal Gibbons and St Thomas.  And those private schools have not routinely played the powerhouse teams of Miami-Dade.

[DisabledAccount]

27 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

Oh yeah because there aren’t public schools that are stacked with transfers. Please, there are public schools who gain like 25 kids in a year. 

 

The days of it being one town against another are over, especially south of the 904

There's quite a few schools in duval who built up overnight because of transfers from other schools going through stability issues 

 

It's no accident Lee became good the same time Ed White fell apart 

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

Maybe not 25 quality but there are more public schools getting guys than private schools. 

I agree

 

I find it ridiculous when i see people saying that changing these rules made things unfair 

 

The biggest issue isn't private vs public 

 

It's metro vs rural 

 

If anything they need to work towards separation by area size not public/private

[Jags904]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

There's quite a few schools in duval who built up overnight because of transfers from other schools going through stability issues 

 

It's no accident Lee became good the same time Ed White fell apart 

Oh absolutely. Ed White lost their coach and First Coast dropped off and all of sudden their studs are at Trinity and/or Lee. It’s the name of the game in the cities in FL. 

My big issue with people calling out private schools is there are different kinds of private schools. Some of them allow just about anybody in and don’t even make them attend school there (they just do FLVS and show up at practice) whereas other privates have a strict admission policy, high tuition, and difficult school work. 

The rural vs urban conversation is a good one certainly. It’s hard though because there are only a few large rural schools. 

[DisabledAccount]

9 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

Oh absolutely. Ed White lost their coach and First Coast dropped off and all of sudden their studs are at Trinity and/or Lee. It’s the name of the game in the cities in FL. 

My big issue with people calling out private schools is there are different kinds of private schools. Some of them allow just about anybody in and don’t even make them attend school there (they just do FLVS and show up at practice) whereas other privates have a strict admission policy, high tuition, and difficult school work. 

The rural vs urban conversation is a good one certainly. It’s hard though because there are only a few large rural schools. 

Well a city like Lake City for example could be aligned with cities like Gainesville and Ocala for classifications if need be