Scheduling Strategies

[gatorman-uf]

There are several ways to schedule in Florida:
 

1) Traditional... You play the teams that you always play no matter their strength.
2) Tough... You play teams that are good no matter the classification within a reasonable distance. Maybe 2 hours by bus.
3) Easy... You play teams that are equal or below your level.

For various reasons, most schedules (I think) are a mix of 1 and either 2 or 3. There are games that you will play because they are gate games, or the county makes you play them to reduce travel costs. Duval Public Schools are rarely allowed to leave the county for ANY team sport and Hillsborough schools have a radius from the school. I am sure several other large counties have similar rules.

But looking at the Playoff Points, it was interesting to see Columbia's totals. The highest amount of points a team can earn in the playoff system is 53 (50+3 from previous playoffs) and Columbia had 48 (the highest in the state), which means that many of their teams were Category 1 wins as they entered week 6 undefeated (until the most recent loss to TC-Jax). While the schedule clearly has tradition (GHS, Buchholz, Suwannee) it clearly has some toughness in it as well (Madison County, Trinity Christian, Bolles). Now, granted Columbia hasn't gotten to the easy part of it's schedule yet, which will bring down that 48 because of how averages work, but for Columbia it looks like they are being reward for their tough schedule. I doubt that the loss to TC-Jax will even affect their ranking. The Laz Index ranks their schedule as #1 in the state heading into last week.

Meanwhile, let's look at 2 SURPRISE schools...
1) P.K. Yonge, a school that hasn't had a winning record since 2005 and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2004.
A Quick look at their schedule tells me that they have only played one team of any note (Hawthorne) and the rest of the teams are bad. But they are firmly in 3rd in their region with only 1 or 2 tough games left and 1 win away from a winning season. Their schedule is bad 489/558 according to the Laz Index. It gives them a smaller margin error as a loss to these teams will kill their chances for playoffs, but right now their scheduling and wins gets them in.

2) Chiefland, their schedule is heavily in tradition, every small public school within 45 minutes is on the schedule except for Newberry and Fort White. They are one game from a winning season and probably 2 victories away from assuring their spot in the playoffs for the first time since 2004. Their schedule is very middle of the road (even for 1A), 
 

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

There are several ways to schedule in Florida:
 

1) Traditional... You play the teams that you always play no matter their strength.
2) Tough... You play teams that are good no matter the classification within a reasonable distance. Maybe 2 hours by bus.
3) Easy... You play teams that are equal or below your level.

For various reasons, most schedules (I think) are a mix of 1 and either 2 or 3. There are games that you will play because they are gate games, or the county makes you play them to reduce travel costs. Duval Public Schools are rarely allowed to leave the county for ANY team sport and Hillsborough schools have a radius from the school. I am sure several other large counties have similar rules.

But looking at the Playoff Points, it was interesting to see Columbia's totals. The highest amount of points a team can earn in the playoff system is 53 (50+3 from previous playoffs) and Columbia had 48 (the highest in the state), which means that many of their teams were Category 1 wins as they entered week 6 undefeated (until the most recent loss to TC-Jax). While the schedule clearly has tradition (GHS, Buchholz, Suwannee) it clearly has some toughness in it as well (Madison County, Trinity Christian, Bolles). Now, granted Columbia hasn't gotten to the easy part of it's schedule yet, which will bring down that 48 because of how averages work, but for Columbia it looks like they are being reward for their tough schedule. I doubt that the loss to TC-Jax will even affect their ranking. The Laz Index ranks their schedule as #1 in the state heading into last week.

Meanwhile, let's look at 2 SURPRISE schools...
1) P.K. Yonge, a school that hasn't had a winning record since 2005 and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2004.
A Quick look at their schedule tells me that they have only played one team of any note (Hawthorne) and the rest of the teams are bad. But they are firmly in 3rd in their region with only 1 or 2 tough games left and 1 win away from a winning season. Their schedule is bad 489/558 according to the Laz Index. It gives them a smaller margin error as a loss to these teams will kill their chances for playoffs, but right now their scheduling and wins gets them in.

2) Chiefland, their schedule is heavily in tradition, every small public school within 45 minutes is on the schedule except for Newberry and Fort White. They are one game from a winning season and probably 2 victories away from assuring their spot in the playoffs for the first time since 2004. Their schedule is very middle of the road (even for 1A), 
 

Really outside of the 2 easy district games (Atlantic Coast and First Coast) and the rivalry game (if you can call it that anymore)  Suwannee the schedule is definitely top quality 

 

Sure our schedule won't stack up with some South Florida teams but when comparing it to other North Florida teams it isn't a stretch to say it's the best schedule in the northeast FL region  (or maybe North Florida in general)

 

I'll be curious to see if Suwannee remains on the schedule because there is increasing talks even during the game this year that this could be the last game for a while because even the administrators at the school are wondering why this game is even still being played and truthfully if we want a good gate game we could keep Madison County on the schedule or maybe put Baker County on the schedule and accomplish the same thing or maybe even revive the old Columbia vs Valdosta rivalry or maybe set up a series with lowndes or colquitt in south GA if we could get home and home with them

 

 

There's a lot of routes we could take moving forward 

 

 

>>>

 

Also in terms of rankings the only polls we may take serious drops in are national polls or polls with heavy bias but in most polls we will probably stay similar spot,  we probably go from 1 to 2 in most regional polls and maybe drop 3 or 4 spots in state polls but it will not be a huge drop and if so I'll be surprised 

 

A lot of people recognize that while Columbia still has work to do they are still a serious and credible threat in 7a r1 if not the clear cut favorite to return to final 4 at minimum but that is minimum expectation at columbia, we aren't ok with just making final 4, we expect to win final 4 and return to Orlando 

[gatorman-uf]

You aren't dropping Suwannee, too much $$$ at stake. Instead, I could see them moving Bolles or Trinity to KoC and trying to add a Georgia school (Valdosta or Lowndes). I doubt they will though because the Georgia schools 2 year contracts are a year off from Florida's.

[DisabledAccount]

8 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

You aren't dropping Suwannee, too much $$$ at stake. Instead, I could see them moving Bolles or Trinity to KoC and trying to add a Georgia school (Valdosta or Lowndes). I doubt they will though because the Georgia schools 2 year contracts are a year off from Florida's.

Normally i would think that but where there is as much smoke as i saw both leading up to the game this year and after I think it is something that will at least be considered 

 

They may end up keeping Suwannee but this off-season is the most at risk the rivalry has been to being put on hiatus in a several decades

 

Even the community has turned on the rivalry and by continuing to play it the way it's been lately it's tarnishing the good times the rivalry had

 

 

Madison County brought just as many fans as Suwannee did so we could just as easily keep Madison County on schedule in their place and go look for a game somewhere else 

 

 

You may be right with the GA teams, I'll have to do some digging and find out which of those teams (if any)  have openings next year and I'm also looking into 2 central Florida powers that I think would take our schedule to the next level 

[DisabledAccount]

8 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

You aren't dropping Suwannee, too much $$$ at stake. Instead, I could see them moving Bolles or Trinity to KoC and trying to add a Georgia school (Valdosta or Lowndes). I doubt they will though because the Georgia schools 2 year contracts are a year off from Florida's.

Here's a few quotes from a Lake City Reporter article after the game 

 

 

"My kids don't even realize it's a rivalry. I don't even think my first group did in 2012"

 

 

"The thing you have to do is remind them of the history of it. We read the contract that was signed to them each year just so they can understand this thing  has been a rivalry. When Coach Mike Pittman was at Suwannee they were back-to-back-to-back-to-back state champions and then runner up in '99. That is a recognized program."

 

-Coach Allen  post game of Suwannee 

 

 

 

(Excerpt from LCR article) 

"maybe by name but no longer in this rivalry. Suwannee used to be a storied program, a force to be reckon with,  but it can no longer compete with the likes of Columbia"

"players don't even get amped up for it as much as they used to.  Some even believe last week's meeting with Gainesville has become a bigger rivalry than the old oaken Bucket"

 

 

"We all know it's a rivalry game but it's not a rivalry game to us"

"Suwannee is always going to have little feeling in their stomach. We just beat it out of them every year"

 

-Marquez Bell  Columbia wide receiver post game

 

 

"realistically in this era of the point system, let's pick up a team that's been in the playoffs the previous season that won their plus ball games and let's play them because it's ultimately at the end of the day in the postseason"

 

"we want to be able to get to be the regional point leaders. If you win the district chances are all your playoff games are at home"

 

"I think there was even a conversation tonight between principals about why are we doing this anymore?"

 

-Coach Allen  post game 

 

 

[Hwy17]

30 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Here's a few quotes from a Lake City Reporter article after the game 

 

 

"My kids don't even realize it's a rivalry. I don't even think my first group did in 2012"

 

 

"The thing you have to do is remind them of the history of it. We read the contract that was signed to them each year just so they can understand this thing  has been a rivalry. When Coach Mike Pittman was at Suwannee they were back-to-back-to-back-to-back state champions and then runner up in '99. That is a recognized program."

 

-Coach Allen  post game of Suwannee 

 

 

 

(Excerpt from LCR article) 

"maybe by name but no longer in this rivalry. Suwannee used to be a storied program, a force to be reckon with,  but it can no longer compete with the likes of Columbia"

"players don't even get amped up for it as much as they used to.  Some even believe last week's meeting with Gainesville has become a bigger rivalry than the old oaken Bucket"

 

 

"We all know it's a rivalry game but it's not a rivalry game to us"

"Suwannee is always going to have little feeling in their stomach. We just beat it out of them every year"

 

-Marquez Bell  Columbia wide receiver post game

 

 

"realistically in this era of the point system, let's pick up a team that's been in the playoffs the previous season that won their plus ball games and let's play them because it's ultimately at the end of the day in the postseason"

 

"we want to be able to get to be the regional point leaders. If you win the district chances are all your playoff games are at home"

 

"I think there was even a conversation tonight between principals about why are we doing this anymore?"

 

-Coach Allen  post game 

 

 

What is the all-time record between the Columbia and Suwanee? What is the current win streak?  What was Suwanee's longest win streak in the series?  

These things tend to go in cycles is the reason I ask.  

[DisabledAccount]

12 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

What is the all-time record between the Columbia and Suwanee? What is the current win streak?  What was Suwanee's longest win streak in the series?  

These things tend to go in cycles is the reason I ask.  

Columbia leads 59-23-3

Current streak 11 straight for Columbia which is only time streak has hit double digits for either team 

3 games is longest streak in Suwannee history over Columbia 

occurred a few times, last one being 1961-1963

Since Suwannee last win in 2007 Columbia has won the last 11 games by a total margin of 451-58

A average of 35 points (running clock)  during that stretch 

Never scoring more than 14 points in those 11 years and including 4 shutouts and 5 times more of 7 or less points 

In fact only twice have they scored more then 10 points in that stretch

[Hwy17]

9 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

There are several ways to schedule in Florida:
 

1) Traditional... You play the teams that you always play no matter their strength.
2) Tough... You play teams that are good no matter the classification within a reasonable distance. Maybe 2 hours by bus.
3) Easy... You play teams that are equal or below your level.

For various reasons, most schedules (I think) are a mix of 1 and either 2 or 3. There are games that you will play because they are gate games, or the county makes you play them to reduce travel costs. Duval Public Schools are rarely allowed to leave the county for ANY team sport and Hillsborough schools have a radius from the school. I am sure several other large counties have similar rules.

But looking at the Playoff Points, it was interesting to see Columbia's totals. The highest amount of points a team can earn in the playoff system is 53 (50+3 from previous playoffs) and Columbia had 48 (the highest in the state), which means that many of their teams were Category 1 wins as they entered week 6 undefeated (until the most recent loss to TC-Jax). While the schedule clearly has tradition (GHS, Buchholz, Suwannee) it clearly has some toughness in it as well (Madison County, Trinity Christian, Bolles). Now, granted Columbia hasn't gotten to the easy part of it's schedule yet, which will bring down that 48 because of how averages work, but for Columbia it looks like they are being reward for their tough schedule. I doubt that the loss to TC-Jax will even affect their ranking. The Laz Index ranks their schedule as #1 in the state heading into last week.

Meanwhile, let's look at 2 SURPRISE schools...
1) P.K. Yonge, a school that hasn't had a winning record since 2005 and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2004.
A Quick look at their schedule tells me that they have only played one team of any note (Hawthorne) and the rest of the teams are bad. But they are firmly in 3rd in their region with only 1 or 2 tough games left and 1 win away from a winning season. Their schedule is bad 489/558 according to the Laz Index. It gives them a smaller margin error as a loss to these teams will kill their chances for playoffs, but right now their scheduling and wins gets them in.

2) Chiefland, their schedule is heavily in tradition, every small public school within 45 minutes is on the schedule except for Newberry and Fort White. They are one game from a winning season and probably 2 victories away from assuring their spot in the playoffs for the first time since 2004. Their schedule is very middle of the road (even for 1A), 
 

And then there is #4 - Stupid...You play teams you have no business playing and get you butt kicked every week and develop a losing culture that is hard to get rid of then wonder why kids want to transfer elsewhere.  I see this with new schools, whose supporters and admin are eager to take on the established programs when they just aren't ready to. I suppose there are other reasons as well.  Maybe in the case of Gibbs, it was the old coach trying to spite the new coach as was suggested elsewhere. Or International School of Broward; what are they thinking?

[DisabledAccount]

16 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

What is the all-time record between the Columbia and Suwanee? What is the current win streak?  What was Suwanee's longest win streak in the series?  

These things tend to go in cycles is the reason I ask.  

In fact the last time Suwannee won consecutive games in the rivalry was 1985-1986 (which is also the last time Columbia had 2 consecutive losing seasons) 

 

Since then Columbia has had 1 losing season (2008) ironically the year this 11 game winning streak began

[DisabledAccount]

It would be one thing if Suwannee was playing close most of the years and just lost close games to Columbia 

 

If these games were close i wouldn't mind them being on the schedule but averaging a running clock over 11 year stretch?  It's blowout after blowout

 

We are tarnishing the historical respect of what was once one of the best rivalry games in north Florida by continuing to play it and embarrass Suwannee 

 

It's not helping either team at this point 

 

I don't want it gone for good but i think taking a few years off may be what this rivalry needs at this point 

[Hwy17]

I've seen rivalries go in streaks, particularly old rivalries like this.  Things can change and sooner or later the do.  

Avon Park and Sebring ended their rivalry. Both communities are upset over it from the people I talk to, its a regret.  Don't know if they are willing to put it back together or if there are too many hard feelings on how it all went down.  

[DisabledAccount]

2 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

I've seen rivalries go in streaks, particularly old rivalries like this.  Things can change and sooner or later the do.  

Avon Park and Sebring ended their rivalry. Both communities are upset over it from the people I talk to, its a regret.  Don't know if they are willing to put it back together or if there are too many hard feelings on how it all went down.  

I'm not saying they should completely shelf Columbia vs Suwannee 

 

Just take a few years off and hopefully Suwannee can regain some confidence and start making this game more competitive, even if the result is still Columbia winning the blowouts are not helping either team

 

Plus it seems the administration of both schools are mutual on wanting to take a hiatus on this rivalry

 

From what it sounds like in the case of Sebring and Avon Park it wasn't mutual decision 

[DisabledAccount]

I think we should take 2 cycles of not playing (4 years)  and let the current rosters graduate without playing each other then bring it back after those 2 cycles 

 

That way you will have no one on either roster with experience playing in this game and we can refresh the rivalry and maybe bring new live to it because none of the people would have experienced the blowout games and perhaps it will encourage Suwannee to be more competitive in the game once the rivalry is revived 

[Hwy17]

44 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I think we should take 2 cycles of not playing (4 years)  and let the current rosters graduate without playing each other then bring it back after those 2 cycles 

 

That way you will have no one on either roster with experience playing in this game and we can refresh the rivalry and maybe bring new live to it because none of the people would have experienced the blowout games and perhaps it will encourage Suwannee to be more competitive in the game once the rivalry is revived 

Does Columbia and Suwanee play on the JV or Jr. High level?

[DisabledAccount]

4 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Does Columbia and Suwanee play on the JV or Jr. High level?

Yeah they do

[OldSchoolLion]

2 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

And then there is #4 - Stupid...You play teams you have no business playing and get you butt kicked every week and develop a losing culture that is hard to get rid of then wonder why kids want to transfer elsewhere.  I see this with new schools, whose supporters and admin are eager to take on the established programs when they just aren't ready to. I suppose there are other reasons as well.  Maybe in the case of Gibbs, it was the old coach trying to spite the new coach as was suggested elsewhere. Or International School of Broward; what are they thinking?

There is a version of #4, but it works the other way...you play teams you have no business playing because you are so far superior.  These are not rivalry games.

For example, St Thomas Aquinas playing Stranahan.  They beat them 52-0 this year and 44-0 last year.  Is there nobody else who would play the Raiders?  

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Yeah they do

That's good.  Get them use to playing one another at an early age.  

[Hwy17]

17 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

There is a version of #4, but it works the other way...you play teams you have no business playing because you are so far superior.  These are not rivalry games.

For example, St Thomas Aquinas playing Stranahan.  They beat them 52-0 this year and 44-0 last year.  Is there nobody else who would play the Raiders?  

Stranahan keeps coming back for more? Who's the dumb one?

[OldSchoolLion]

23 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Stranahan keeps coming back for more? Who's the dumb one?

Good point..the problem is the fans.    

St Thomas regular season results from 1988.  From a fan perspective, there was more parity back then.  Even someone who was not a ST Thomas or Stranahan fan might go out to see those 2 teams play a game.  Who would do that today unless they were a diehard fan?  In a way, fans have gotten spoiled, ie marquis matchups.  Local matchups seem to hold less excitement than the past.  

Stranahan 28-21 Win

McArthur 0-29 Loss

Western 35-14 Win

South Broward 17-10 Win

Deerfield Beach 28-20 Win

Nova 35-0 Win

Ely 6-0 Win

Fort Lauderdale 35-10 Win

Dillard 10-28 Loss

Cardinal Gibbons 47-7 win

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

Dillard put it on em lol hahahahaha boy what would it take to see that today 

[OldSchoolLion]

21 minutes ago, “PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE) said:

Dillard put it on em lol hahahahaha boy what would it take to see that today 

I thought you might enjoy that.  Dillard actually beat the Raiders 5 years in a row...28-20 in 1986, 22-7 in 87, 13-12 in 89, 13-9 in 90.  That was a heck of a rivalry.  FYI-Ely beat the Raiders in 87 and 90 and came within a TD in 86, 88 and 89.

[Jags904]

If you got rid of Suwannee on the schedule I’d try to move Bolles to the KOC, then try to add an Apopka/Wekiva & a Valdosta/Colquitt. Now granted you guys wouldn’t want that schedule every year.

[DisabledAccount]

27 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

If you got rid of Suwannee on the schedule I’d try to move Bolles to the KOC, then try to add an Apopka/Wekiva & a Valdosta/Colquitt. Now granted you guys wouldn’t want that schedule every year.

That's my thinking actually 

 

Apopka played bartram trail in week 2 this year so if we dropped Suwannee we could get apopka to replace them

 

 

And i actually think we could handle that schedule yearly,  if bartram trail can handle it then i know we can

[“PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE)]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I thought you might enjoy that.  Dillard actually beat the Raiders 5 years in a row...28-20 in 1986, 22-7 in 87, 13-12 in 89, 13-9 in 90.  That was a heck of a rivalry.  FYI-Ely beat the Raiders in 87 and 90 and came within a TD in 86, 88 and 89.

Cool so what was our last win vs them 

[OldSchoolLion]

25 minutes ago, “PANTHER NATION(CODE BLUE) said:

Cool so what was our last win vs them 

Dillard won 12-10 in 95. Then STA won 12 straight before Dillard beat them again in 2014 (22-19).  I guess that shows how rivalries can turn around if given enough time.