Change bonus points

[blackmagic]

Warner Christian, Walton, Hamilton County, Newberry, Belleview, Village Academy, Lemon Bay, Royal Palm Beach....

These are a some teams that are worth bonus points but have not won a game this season. There are more that only have 1 win. Is it fair that these teams are giving others bonus points based on what they have done in the past? The 3 points have huge impact. It almost boost a category 4 team to category 3, which takes 4 wins in a season to move to category 3.

My opinion is that a team should get bonus points for scheduling a previous playoff team but not if they finish category 4. Have bonus points be affected by the current season also. Scheduling a playoff team makes you eligible to receive bonus points but how many points is based off how they finish in the current season

Category 4 recieve 0 points or 1

Category 3 recieve 1 point or 2

Category 2 receive 2 points or 3

Category 1 recieve 3 points or 4

Just my thoughts....

[Hwy17]

11 hours ago, blackmagic said:

Warner Christian, Walton, Hamilton County, Newberry, Belleview, Village Academy, Lemon Bay, Royal Palm Beach....

These are a some teams that are worth bonus points but have not won a game this season. There are more that only have 1 win. Is it fair that these teams are giving others bonus points based on what they have done in the past? The 3 points have huge impact. It almost boost a category 4 team to category 3, which takes 4 wins in a season to move to category 3.

My opinion is that a team should get bonus points for scheduling a previous playoff team but not if they finish category 4. Have bonus points be affected by the current season also. Scheduling a playoff team makes you eligible to receive bonus points but how many points is based off how they finish in the current season

Category 4 recieve 0 points or 1

Category 3 recieve 1 point or 2

Category 2 receive 2 points or 3

Category 1 recieve 3 points or 4

Just my thoughts....

The concept was that because schools usually schedule on a two year cycle, home and away, that they would add the bonus points for scheduling a playoff team from the prior cycle so not to punish a program who attempted to schedule a strong team that happens to be down now.  Remember too, this is only the 2nd year of using a point system so there are still issues that were not thought about arising.  Maybe the answer is to award 2 bonus points instead of 3?  IDK, just thinking.

[gwdrum75]

The issue they have to fix is a losing team getting more points than a winning team for a single game. Especially when it is a district game. 

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, gwdrum75 said:

The issue they have to fix is a losing team getting more points than a winning team for a single game. Especially when it is a district game. 

I suggested no points for a loss.  None, whatsoever, moral victories are just that, moral victories.  Bartow and Gibbs shouldn't get rewarded just because they got their butts kicked by Lakeland.  Neither should a team that just happens to play a good team close.  Even bad teams play good teams close from time to time but I view it as a loss is a loss.  I'm off the opinion that points should be awarded for wins only.  Now then, the better the team you beat, the more points you get, I agree with that.  

[Phfootball9]

The point system is really flawed. It does not take into account classification at all. The tier break points are are dumb. I think a win against a 8a school should be worth more than a win against a 1a school.

 

I think something like this might better:

Class   Win   loss

8a         16      8

7a         15     7.5

6a         14      7

5a         13      6.5

4a          12      6

3a          11      5.5

2a          10      5

1a          9        4.5

 

If you win you get 1 point for each opponent win and .5 for each opponent win if you lose.

The current system is failing. Look at 6a region 1 and explain how the system reflects any sort of on the field reality.

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

The point system is really flawed. It does not take into account classification at all. The tier break points are are dumb. I think a win against a 8a school should be worth more than a win against a 1a school.

 

I think something like this might better:

Class   Win   loss

8a         16      8

7a         15     7.5

6a         14      7

5a         13      6.5

4a          12      6

3a          11      5.5

2a          10      5

1a          9        4.5

 

If you win you get 1 point for each opponent win and .5 for each opponent win if you lose.

The current system is failing. Look at 6a region 1 and explain how the system reflects any sort of on the field reality.

They do that then we have no incentive to play Madison County and same would be said for other schools

 

We would at that point be better off playing Sandalwood 

 

That's why the idea of points for playing up would be a terrible idea, only way i could see it being a good idea is if they reserve those playing up bonus points to only 1-4a schools who play teams with winning records in 5-8a ( this way you don't see Madison County scheduling someone like Colonial just to get extra points for playing a 8a school even though there are a few schools in 1a who would beat colonial 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

I suggested no points for a loss.  None, whatsoever, moral victories are just that, moral victories.  Bartow and Gibbs shouldn't get rewarded just because they got their butts kicked by Lakeland.  Neither should a team that just happens to play a good team close.  Even bad teams play good teams close from time to time but I view it as a loss is a loss.  I'm off the opinion that points should be awarded for wins only.  Now then, the better the team you beat, the more points you get, I agree with that.  

Yeah but if no points are rewarded for losses you will see Schools start finding easy wins against schools who know they have no chance at playoffs and you will no longer see any good in state matchups because teams would gain more from blasting Wolfson then playing and losing to Trinity Christian and the quality in the state as a whole would take a huge hit 

 

Not to mention you won't even get 20% of the teams in the state to vote in favor of that so it will never happen 

[Hwy17]

6 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

They do that then we have no incentive to play Madison County and same would be said for other schools

 

We would at that point be better off playing Sandalwood 

 

That's why the idea of points for playing up would be a terrible idea, only way i could see it being a good idea is if they reserve those playing up bonus points to only 1-4a schools who play teams with winning records in 5-8a ( this way you don't see Madison County scheduling someone like Colonial just to get extra points for playing a 8a school even though there are a few schools in 1a who would beat colonial 

 

 

Yeah but if no points are rewarded for losses you will see Schools start finding easy wins against schools who know they have no chance at playoffs and you will no longer see any good in state matchups because teams would gain more from blasting Wolfson then playing and losing to Trinity Christian and the quality in the state as a whole would take a huge hit 

 

Not to mention you won't even get 20% of the teams in the state to vote in favor of that so it will never happen 

1.  That I can see.   Perhaps require it to be 2 classes up i.e a 4a would have to play a 6a or higher to get a bonus.  

Look at it how it is now.  Hardee would get more points for playing 2a Moore Haven than for playing 6a Barron Collier, but I feel that Barron Collier is a tougher opponent for us and helps prepare us more for the playoffs.

2.  This is why the tougher the opponent the higher the points.  Know the risk and reward for how you schedule.  Besides that, winning your district should be priority #1.  Points were set up to be for seeding and wildcard spots.  

 

[Phfootball9]

You are missing the objective. Madison is a good program in the system I proposed a win against them would be worth roughly a win against a 4 win 7a school. If you don't see that as fair I can't help you. We should not design a system that works to preserve a game that matches a 1a public school and a 7a public school. Madison is way better than all but a few 1a schools. But saying Nicevilles  win against the 2a state champ and Navarre win against PF are of equal value is crazy talk. Remember what happened to the last state title small private school from down south that visited Navarre. Look it up. 

 

Sure rarely a team playing up can compete even win against a big school, but that is not the reality week in and week out. Baker has a great 1a program do you really want to see a Navarre/escambia/Niceville baker matchup. Right now a win against Baker has more value than a win against Crestview to Navarre. Think about that and what you are protecting.

[DisabledAccount]

59 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

You are missing the objective. Madison is a good program in the system I proposed a win against them would be worth roughly a win against a 4 win 7a school. If you don't see that as fair I can't help you. We should not design a system that works to preserve a game that matches a 1a public school and a 7a public school. Madison is way better than all but a few 1a schools. But saying Nicevilles  win against the 2a state champ and Navarre win against PF are of equal value is crazy talk. Remember what happened to the last state title small private school from down south that visited Navarre. Look it up. 

 

Sure rarely a team playing up can compete even win against a big school, but that is not the reality week in and week out. Baker has a great 1a program do you really want to see a Navarre/escambia/Niceville baker matchup. Right now a win against Baker has more value than a win against Crestview to Navarre. Think about that and what you are protecting.

No you are missing the point

 

If playing up a class results in bonus points with no clear management of the rule then you will see teams trying to get opponents in high classes regardless of the quality and that will lead to more problems then we have currently and at that point no team in 7a or 8a will want to play games against any class but themselves 

 

You won't see Columbia playing trinity, Bolles, or Madison County because they better off playing only 8a teams so they can insure bonus points for simply playing up a class regardless of how good the opponent is 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, Phfootball9 said:

You are missing the objective. Madison is a good program in the system I proposed a win against them would be worth roughly a win against a 4 win 7a school. If you don't see that as fair I can't help you. We should not design a system that works to preserve a game that matches a 1a public school and a 7a public school. Madison is way better than all but a few 1a schools. But saying Nicevilles  win against the 2a state champ and Navarre win against PF are of equal value is crazy talk. Remember what happened to the last state title small private school from down south that visited Navarre. Look it up. 

 

Sure rarely a team playing up can compete even win against a big school, but that is not the reality week in and week out. Baker has a great 1a program do you really want to see a Navarre/escambia/Niceville baker matchup. Right now a win against Baker has more value than a win against Crestview to Navarre. Think about that and what you are protecting.

So madison will be worth same points as playing Chiles 

 

[DisabledAccount]

I wonder who would win that one but truthfully I think Madison would win that one by around 20 points

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

1.  That I can see.   Perhaps require it to be 2 classes up i.e a 4a would have to play a 6a or higher to get a bonus.  

Look at it how it is now.  Hardee would get more points for playing 2a Moore Haven than for playing 6a Barron Collier, but I feel that Barron Collier is a tougher opponent for us and helps prepare us more for the playoffs.

2.  This is why the tougher the opponent the higher the points.  Know the risk and reward for how you schedule.  Besides that, winning your district should be priority #1.  Points were set up to be for seeding and wildcard spots.  

 

And i dont think beating some team like Bronson should get points while losing to a nationally elite team gets nothing and again you won't even see 20% of the schools in state to vote in favor of it and the few who would are schools who play weak schedules already then get exposed in playoffs by teams with 3 or 4 more losses because they actually play good competition 

[Hwy17]

21 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

And i dont think beating some team like Bronson should get points while losing to a nationally elite team gets nothing and again you won't even see 20% of the schools in state to vote in favor of it and the few who would are schools who play weak schedules already then get exposed in playoffs by teams with 3 or 4 more losses because they actually play good competition 

And what happens when you schedule the nationally elite team and get blown-out?  I'm sorry but a loss is a loss is a loss. 

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, Hwy17 said:

And what happens when you schedule the nationally elite team and get blown-out?  I'm sorry but a loss is a loss is a loss. 

So we should never schedule Trinity Christian again correct?  We should instead schedule Bronson and ISB because playing them makes us more playoff worthy then a close loss to Trinity Christian? 

 

That's the message that will be sent with what you are suggesting, that playing a jv level team and winning is more playoff worthy then challenging yourself against a elite team which is why any good program will never support that idea

[Hwy17]

3 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So we should never schedule Trinity Christian again correct?  We should instead schedule Bronson and ISB because playing them makes us more playoff worthy then a close loss to Trinity Christian? 

 

That's the message that will be sent with what you are suggesting, that playing a jv level team and winning is more playoff worthy then challenging yourself against a elite team which is why any good program will never support that idea

Bronson is probably smart enough not to schedule you in the first place.  ISB seems to like getting beat every week for some reason.  

My question to you would be this; would you schedule either of them if you knew that the most you might get from it is only 1 point but scheduling another good team was worth 10 points if you win?  Better yet, do you look at the good, maybe not elite good but good still the same team and say, lets go and schedule them instead because the reward is there?  The system we have now says Gibbs loss to Lakeland is the same as Columbia's loss to Trinity.  Think about that!  Really, what I propose is no different, but in a way that makes it more clear to the average idiot.  It really is a wash. 

You're looking at it and saying 1 point is better than 0.  I look at it and say, lets think about what we are doing here.  This last go around I saw some stupid scheduling because we award points for a loss.  Based off a few observations and a couple of discussion I've had some teams scheduled other teams they have no business playing, and get killed.  Meanwhile others of us had a hard time filling out the schedule. 

As always, winning district and should be priority #1, not making sure you have enough points to get in if you don't.  

[DisabledAccount]

5 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

Bronson is probably smart enough not to schedule you in the first place.  ISB seems to like getting beat every week for some reason.  

My question to you would be this; would you schedule either of them if you knew that the most you might get from it is only 1 point but scheduling another good team was worth 10 points if you win?  Better yet, do you look at the good, maybe not elite good but good still the same team and say, lets go and schedule them instead because the reward is there?  The system we have now says Gibbs loss to Lakeland is the same as Columbia's loss to Trinity.  Think about that!  Really, what I propose is no different, but in a way that makes it more clear to the average idiot.  It really is a wash. 

You're looking at it and saying 1 point is better than 0.  I look at it and say, lets think about what we are doing here.  This last go around I saw some stupid scheduling because we award points for a loss.  Based off a few observations and a couple of discussion I've had some teams scheduled other teams they have no business playing, and get killed.  Meanwhile others of us had a hard time filling out the schedule. 

As always, winning district and should be priority #1, not making sure you have enough points to get in if you don't.  

I think maybe the point totals for losses should be adjusted but i know if you make a loss to say Miami Central worth less than beating ISB it will lead to teams looking for easiest win possible and will ruin a lot of good games we would see 

 

I think Bartow getting more points for losing to lakeland then lakeland gets for beating them is a issue but i think there are other ways it can be addressed 

 

I get that your idea is not to punish a team like Columbia for playing Trinity since both are among top North Florida teams so this was a balanced game scheduled however i feel your idea will end up punishing them just to stop a team from scheduling above their head,  i think there should be a balance act,  losses shouldn't count as much as wins but i don't think losses should count for no points at all

 

Perhaps they could adjust the point totals again in the off-season 

[Dorsey Reaves]

I agree the points are crazy madison Scedule vs cheifland  Scedule and we are tied in points ? I’m just curious what 1a team in Florida is better than Madison and please god don’t say Dixie county 

[DisabledAccount]

14 minutes ago, Dorsey Reaves said:

I agree the points are crazy madison Scedule vs cheifland  Scedule and we are tied in points ? I’m just curious what 1a team in Florida is better than Madison and please god don’t say Dixie county 

Pahokee is only 1a school i think can beat Madison this year 

[Dorsey Reaves]

21 hours ago, blackmagic said:

Warner Christian, Walton, Hamilton County, Newberry, Belleview, Village Academy, Lemon Bay, Royal Palm Beach....

These are a some teams that are worth bonus points but have not won a game this season. There are more that only have 1 win. Is it fair that these teams are giving others bonus points based on what they have done in the past? The 3 points have huge impact. It almost boost a category 4 team to category 3, which takes 4 wins in a season to move to category 3.

My opinion is that a team should get bonus points for scheduling a previous playoff team but not if they finish category 4. Have bonus points be affected by the current season also. Scheduling a playoff team makes you eligible to receive bonus points but how many points is based off how they finish in the current season

Category 4 recieve 0 points or 1

Category 3 recieve 1 point or 2

Category 2 receive 2 points or 3

Category 1 recieve 3 points or 4

Just my thoughts....

Newberry cmon man

[badbird]

point system is broken.  Only good thing on new system is you seed and not every district gets two teams.  this is suppose to get the best next 4 in but with the point system it's a crap shoot if that will happen or does happen.

[Dorsey Reaves]

1st round bye this year for winner and 3 teams get in is that correct 

[badbird]

2 minutes ago, Dorsey Reaves said:

1st round bye this year for winner and 3 teams get in is that correct 

for 1A-4A top 2 get bye and 6 total get in from each region.  Gonna be some really bad teams in the playoffs.  Almost everyone makes it.  Most regions only have 8 or 9 teams 

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, Dorsey Reaves said:

1st round bye this year for winner and 3 teams get in is that correct 

6 teams get in each region in Class 1-4a with top 2 getting bye week 

[Dorsey Reaves]

Woo hooo maybe mayo will make it this year 

[DisabledAccount]

3 minutes ago, badbird said:

for 1A-4A top 2 get bye and 6 total get in from each region.  Gonna be some really bad teams in the playoffs.  Almost everyone makes it.  Most regions only have 8 or 9 teams 

Do you think if they went to 6 classes and made each region larger that the point system would have better success?