FHSAA Playoff system is very flawed

[DisabledAccount]

26 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

This is the product of Frank Beasley and the Fhsaa and it has proven to be terribly flawed. The former system as mentioned above was better. The fact you had bad teams in the playoffs were because of 3 team districts. If you say the minimum number of teams in a district are 6, that guarantees 5 games then you still have schedule flexibility. You will NEVER make everyone happy but I don't know anyone that can honestly say that a winless team belongs in the playoffs. On top of that it was decided by a coin flip. We need a math degree to figure out the standings but we can't get teams together to play 1 qtr to decide a playoff spot. Let's just flip a coin and here we go. I would like to believe that the Fhsaa is embarrassed by these results but I really don't think they care. 

I don't have no damn math degree and I was charting our points each week on the dot,  it's a simple system once you got the numbers down

 

And i always hated the old system because any non district game didn't mean anything for the playoffs and it made those games expendable and if they have weather issues they would just drop it and not think twice

[DisabledAccount]

43 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Columbia fan, take a step back take a deep breath. This is a very fixable situation. Just like gator man said, all we have to do is go back to larger districts. If you whine about the travel then you don't have to participate in the FHSAA playoffs, it's that easy. And there are enough teams in every geographic region to fill out districts very easily. We just need to be slightly more flexible with the classes. And for the folks that like points, what I suggested above works. You award points based on strength of schedule for that year. Based on wins and losses. Not past accomplishments. That's the fairest and most equable way to solve this stupid mess that the FHSAA has single-handedly caused.

As long as every game counts towards playoffs and we have actual seeding then they could do whatever they want 

 

Those 2 things are deal-breakers for me

[OldSchoolLion]

Let's think about the kids here, and teaching life lessons, which is the ultimate objective of hs football, right?  It's important for kids to learn about "missions" and how their actions clearly impact mission results, right?    Missions, ie save enough for retirement, have a successful family life, etc should have clear objectives, and it's important for kids to learn how to set such objectives and measure themselves against those.

Am going to use a military example.  The really old playoff system, in which only district champs made the playoffs, rewarded a team for "taking the hill" and nothing less.  Mission success was very clearly defined...win the district.  Anything less=mission failed.    

Then we said that district runners-up could make it.  So you could take part of the hill and still "succeed."  Now we are saying that you could take none of the hill, ie achieve a 1-4 district record, but if other companies succeed in taking their hills, your company can still be considered a success.  How does that strike you, vets?

"Fuzzy" objectives lead to all sorts of problems.  We don't use points systems to determine success in life.  When the goal was to get an "A" in class and I got a "B," mom never came to me at the end of the school year and said, "You're in luck.  The points system has allowed for your "B" to have met your goal and here is your reward, honey"  If a team's realistic objective at the beginning of the season is to finish at least 8-2 and win the district, and they finish 6-4 in fourth place, but still make the playoffs, what message do the kids receive?  ...you can still "win" even when you don't meet your objectives.  In many aspects of life, "close" does not count for much.  

How many of you ever had a boss come to you at the end of the year and say, "Joe, you didn't meet your personal objectives this year, but because of our point systems here, you're still getting a 10% raise."  The sooner kids learn how life really works, the better.       

      

[Hwy17]

45 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Let's think about the kids here, and teaching life lessons, which is the ultimate objective of hs football, right?  It's important for kids to learn about "missions" and how their actions clearly impact mission results, right?    Missions, ie save enough for retirement, have a successful family life, etc should have clear objectives, and it's important for kids to learn how to set such objectives and measure themselves against those.

Am going to use a military example.  The really old playoff system, in which only district champs made the playoffs, rewarded a team for "taking the hill" and nothing less.  Mission success was very clearly defined...win the district.  Anything less=mission failed.    

Then we said that district runners-up could make it.  So you could take part of the hill and still "succeed."  Now we are saying that you could take none of the hill, ie achieve a 1-4 district record, but if other companies succeed in taking their hills, your company can still be considered a success.  How does that strike you, vets?

"Fuzzy" objectives lead to all sorts of problems.  We don't use points systems to determine success in life.  When the goal was to get an "A" in class and I got a "B," mom never came to me at the end of the school year and said, "You're in luck.  The points system has allowed for your "B" to have met your goal and here is your reward, honey"  If a team's realistic objective at the beginning of the season is to finish at least 8-2 and win the district, and they finish 6-4 in fourth place, but still make the playoffs, what message do the kids receive?  ...you can still "win" even when you don't meet your objectives.  In many aspects of life, "close" does not count for much.  

How many of you ever had a boss come to you at the end of the year and say, "Joe, you didn't meet your personal objectives this year, but because of our point systems here, you're still getting a 10% raise."  The sooner kids learn how life really works, the better.       

      

Its worse than that.  Imagine taking someone who can't pass basic math, putting them in an advance class like college algebra, then when they get an F saying that because they were in a more difficult class, their F is better than an A in basic math.  That is the logic being used here. 

[Floridaatlantic1]

The FHSAA should also bring back the 3 way tiebreakers if three teams tie a district and none of them beat the other two. What would it hurt to settle it on the field on Monday after week 9 instead of the obviously flawed points system. 

[STILL KRUNK]

22 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

Its worse than that.  Imagine taking someone who can't pass basic math, putting them in an advance class like college algebra, then when they get an F saying that because they were in a more difficult class, their F is better than an A in basic math.  That is the logic being used here. 

UUUUUUHHHHHH OldSchool,  HWY..........you two don't work in the Florida Public School System do you?

This is EXACTLY the procedure in Florida Public Schools.......excuse me, there are teachers that don't subscribe to it, but this is the "Marching Orders" from the "Brass."  Should explain a lot about where we are....

.......if you look at it that way..........this playoff system makes PERFECT SENSE......I retract my objections!

[Hwy17]

41 minutes ago, STILL KRUNK said:

UUUUUUHHHHHH OldSchool,  HWY..........you two don't work in the Florida Public School System do you?

This is EXACTLY the procedure in Florida Public Schools.......excuse me, there are teachers that don't subscribe to it, but this is the "Marching Orders" from the "Brass."  Should explain a lot about where we are....

.......if you look at it that way..........this playoff system makes PERFECT SENSE......I retract my objections!

Nope, I don't have the patience. 

[Phfootball9]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:29 AM, OldSchoolLion said:

Let's think about the kids here, and teaching life lessons, which is the ultimate objective of hs football, right?  It's important for kids to learn about "missions" and how their actions clearly impact mission results, right?    Missions, ie save enough for retirement, have a successful family life, etc should have clear objectives, and it's important for kids to learn how to set such objectives and measure themselves against those.

Am going to use a military example.  The really old playoff system, in which only district champs made the playoffs, rewarded a team for "taking the hill" and nothing less.  Mission success was very clearly defined...win the district.  Anything less=mission failed.    

Then we said that district runners-up could make it.  So you could take part of the hill and still "succeed."  Now we are saying that you could take none of the hill, ie achieve a 1-4 district record, but if other companies succeed in taking their hills, your company can still be considered a success.  How does that strike you, vets?

"Fuzzy" objectives lead to all sorts of problems.  We don't use points systems to determine success in life.  When the goal was to get an "A" in class and I got a "B," mom never came to me at the end of the school year and said, "You're in luck.  The points system has allowed for your "B" to have met your goal and here is your reward, honey"  If a team's realistic objective at the beginning of the season is to finish at least 8-2 and win the district, and they finish 6-4 in fourth place, but still make the playoffs, what message do the kids receive?  ...you can still "win" even when you don't meet your objectives.  In many aspects of life, "close" does not count for much.  

How many of you ever had a boss come to you at the end of the year and say, "Joe, you didn't meet your personal objectives this year, but because of our point systems here, you're still getting a 10% raise."  The sooner kids learn how life really works, the better.       

      

You know the thing I find frustrating is the fhsaa ignores it's own rules. There were games not played  and the actual rules relating to those games simply were not followed. This effected seeding in one case I am aware of. In the case I am aware of the actions of two different rivals of a team decided the seeding of  their rival. These are bitter rivals and I am telling you the schools knew what they were doing and knew the effect.

 

 

[OldSchoolLion]

3 minutes ago, Phfootball9 said:

You know the thing I find frustrating is the fhsaa ignores it's own rules. There were games not played  and the actual rules relating to those games simply were not followed. This effected seeding in one case I am aware of. In the case I am aware of the actions of two different rivals of a team decided the seeding of  their rival. These are bitter rivals and I am telling you the schools knew what they were doing and knew the effect.

 

 

Stakeholders had to know there would be gaming of the system, and that should have been evaluated as part of the cost/benefit analysis.  It's obvious the system creates certain opportunities for that.  The $64,000 question is, "Do the solutions/benefits of the new system outweigh the negatives."  If a "positive" of the new system is to give "rightful" teams playoff advantage due to seeding, it potentially negates that benefit of the new system if people are playing games that impact the seeding.      

[WhatsUpDoc]

i was reading over the State Semifinals Rule……… Very very stupid FHSAA!!!! They put in there that the home team is team with the highest regular season points not the team with the higher seeding but fir regionals its the team with the higher seeding!!!!! Sorry but if a 5 seed is home over a 1 or even 2 seed of the other region then thats got to be the stupidest rule!!!! Im sorry but a seed 5 should NEVER be home to a seed 1,2, 3 or 4 seed ever… They should have stuck with changing home team like before!!! 

 

Just curious whenever schools voted for these rules were they allowed to vote per classification or as a whole? I keep hearing ALL schools voted for this or that. It should be done by classification because 5A may want changing semi finals every other year while 6A may want to say Higher seed gets home field no matter what and 7A may like the current… If FHSAA can give participation trophies to 4A and below why cant they allow difference in certain things between the classes during the playoffs? Region 4 in 5A and above can milk the sytem to get home games every semifinal game!!! Stupid rules are going to run off many many long term fans!!!

[DisabledAccount]

50 minutes ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

i was reading over the State Semifinals Rule……… Very very stupid FHSAA!!!! They put in there that the home team is team with the highest regular season points not the team with the higher seeding but fir regionals its the team with the higher seeding!!!!! Sorry but if a 5 seed is home over a 1 or even 2 seed of the other region then thats got to be the stupidest rule!!!! Im sorry but a seed 5 should NEVER be home to a seed 1,2, 3 or 4 seed ever… They should have stuck with changing home team like before!!! 

 

Just curious whenever schools voted for these rules were they allowed to vote per classification or as a whole? I keep hearing ALL schools voted for this or that. It should be done by classification because 5A may want changing semi finals every other year while 6A may want to say Higher seed gets home field no matter what and 7A may like the current… If FHSAA can give participation trophies to 4A and below why cant they allow difference in certain things between the classes during the playoffs? Region 4 in 5A and above can milk the sytem to get home games every semifinal game!!! Stupid rules are going to run off many many long term fans!!!

So how would you decide who hosts a 1 seed vs a 1 seed?? 

[181pl]

This whole thing is a clown mess created by fools.

 

Like a constitutional amendment allowing scumbags to get their voting rights back the second they walk out of D.O.C.

 

I really can't wait to get out FLA. 3 more years.

[WhatsUpDoc]

11 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

So how would you decide who hosts a 1 seed vs a 1 seed?? 

Why go by seeding in the state semifinals when the sytem has shown it can be milked. Go with Cat 1 wins or better yet look at each teams PA or PF like other leagues use as part of their playoff structure. Just leave it like it was. Once again no fair playing field if every year state semifinals are located in one region every year!!! 

[WhatsUpDoc]

2 hours ago, 181pl said:

This whole thing is a clown mess created by fools.

 

Like a constitutional amendment allowing scumbags to get their voting rights back the second they walk out of D.O.C.

 

I really can't wait to get out FLA. 3 more years.

I’m already looking to move to Tennessee. I cannot stand Florida, was born here and raised here but to see how they treat public schools vs private and how low they pay teachers and many other specialties no wonder ppl leave and never come back!!  Ppl do not think before they vote just like the amendment 3 that was passed do they realize in two years these jokers will have on the ballot to have gambling here ? More drugs more prostitution on its way!!!!

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

Why go by seeding in the state semifinals when the sytem has shown it can be milked. Go with Cat 1 wins or better yet look at each teams PA or PF like other leagues use as part of their playoff structure. Just leave it like it was. Once again no fair playing field if every year state semifinals are located in one region every year!!! 

Or maybe the team who keeps failing to get home field can step their schedule up 

 

Home field is a privilege not a right and it sounds so cheesy to say "team A clinched home field advantage but will travel in final 4 no matter who wins the other bracket because it's their turn to host"

 

Cat 1 wins would be fine with me but flipping every year bullcrap is annoying

 

If Columbia didn't get enough points to beat out the region 2 team and have to travel i would have no problem with it because if the other team earned it they deserve it more but at least it's earned

 

The flip every year crap means no one is earning anything, it's being handed to them

[WhatsUpDoc]

14 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Or maybe the team who keeps failing to get home field can step their schedule up 

 

Home field is a privilege not a right and it sounds so cheesy to say "team A clinched home field advantage but will travel in final 4 no matter who wins the other bracket because it's their turn to host"

 

Cat 1 wins would be fine with me but flipping every year bullcrap is annoying

 

If Columbia didn't get enough points to beat out the region 2 team and have to travel i would have no problem with it because if the other team earned it they deserve it more but at least it's earned

 

The flip every year crap means no one is earning anything, it's being handed to them

So you really believe a 10-0 team should travel to a 8-2 or 7-3 team? That’s insane!!! Yea let’s milk the sytem!! That’s exactly going to happen!!  In reality better records teams should have home field period, they’ve done what FHSAA has asked!! Btw some districts can’t do much when an opponent doesn’t make up a game or teams in the districts are weak!!!! Your logic of playing stronger schedule is weak. 

[WhatsUpDoc]

Let me ask this give me the date FHSAA will be handing out the participation trophies just for playing this game? I would like to be there taking photos !!!!! Stupid point sytem!!!! Is that doctor still up there at FHSAA ? He needs to go!!!! 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

So you really believe a 10-0 team should travel to a 8-2 or 7-3 team? That’s insane!!! Yea let’s milk the sytem!! That’s exactly going to happen!!  In reality better records teams should have home field period, they’ve done what FHSAA has asked!! Btw some districts can’t do much when an opponent doesn’t make up a game or teams in the districts are weak!!!! Your logic of playing stronger schedule is weak. 

Should a 9-1 team have to travel to a 4-6 team who the 9-1 team beat head to head during the regular season? 

 

Both were District champs but yeah it makes total sense for a 4-6 team to host a 9-1 team

[DisabledAccount]

1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Should a 9-1 team have to travel to a 4-6 team who the 9-1 team beat head to head during the regular season? 

Bc that happened in the perfect old system you like so much 

[WhatsUpDoc]

So overall records now means crap!!! A losing team can milk the sytem and get in. Way to ruin this game !!!!! BTW when is FHSAA giving out participation trophies this year!!! 

[WhatsUpDoc]

Way to go all u Obama fans!!! You e ruined more than just this country bit you’ve ruined this game from pee wee to the NFL!!!! Way to go you should get a trophy for it!!!

[DisabledAccount]

15 minutes ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

Way to go all u Obama fans!!! You e ruined more than just this country bit you’ve ruined this game from pee wee to the NFL!!!! Way to go you should get a trophy for it!!!

What the hell does politics have a damn thing to do with playoff seeding?!!

 

Smh are people so desperate to pretend to have all the answers that logic goes out the window entirely? 

 

I can respect someone having a different opinion if they can back it up but how can you back it up when you can't even stay on topic 

[DisabledAccount]

22 minutes ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

So overall records now means crap!!! A losing team can milk the sytem and get in. Way to ruin this game !!!!! BTW when is FHSAA giving out participation trophies this year!!! 

Or Maybe if your team needs to get a home game just by hoping for the right end of a bracket flip instead of earning it then maybe they don't deserve to host the game in the first place 

 

 

[Quelee]

Keep the point system while making some adjustments. One thing I would suggest change are the bonus points. Either eliminate it or only award bonus points to school for teams who made the playoffs the prior year only. I understand schools have these two-year set schedules, but I also know schools back out of commitments all the time. 

But my biggest suggestion will be to remove regional playoff brackets. Establish 1-16 seeds north and south brackets/divisions. Grant the highest playoff points averages to the top 16 schools from each north and south division. Each north and south conference is to have 8 districts. Have 8 district champions and 8 wild cards. Set each district so that they have at least 5 teams yet no more than 6. This way there could be some leeway in scheduling non-district games. 

My biggest homer gripe about the playoff system is that you has St. Pete HS who had an playoff point average of 39.10 miss the 7A playoffs while there were 4 schools in 7A Region 4 (non-district champs) who made the playoffs yet all had a point average less than SPHS. 7A Region 3 is a brutal district with all playoff qualifies earning an average at or above 40.00. No reason why you can't admit the best 16 schools from a North/South sections of the state, seed them 1-16 and have them play accordingly. This argument of travel costs is beyond me when I see other states like Georgia and Alabama traveling distances longer than 3+ hours for games in the 1st round. We can do it too. 

[181pl]

Travel was better under the old system. Up or down the bracket depending on the year. Much easier.

 

Under what I proposed, we would seed based on points but qualify for the playoffs based on districts alone.