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OldSchoolLion

Who Got Screwed This Year in the Playoffs?

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Last year, in Classes 5A-8A, 21 teams made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Only 3 of those teams that did not make it had 3 or fewer losses.

This year, 23 teams in Classes 5A-8A made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Of those 23, 8 teams had 3 or fewer losses:

 

George Jenkins(8A) 7-3   a 5-5 team made it

Liberty(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Park Vista(8A) 7-3   a 6-3 team made it

Seminole(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Chamberlain(6A) 8-2   a 6-4 team made it 

New Smyrna Beach(6A) 7-3   a 4-6 team made it

Springstead(6A) 7-3   a 6-4 team made it

River Ridge(5A) 7-3  another 7-3 team made it

 

In addition, 3 teams with marginal records did not make the playoffs and district foes they defeated during the regular season did.  Those teams were Palm Bay(5A), Robinson(5A), and Mater Academy(7A).

A good number who made it this year under the new system were clearly "upgrades"  over teams from their respective regions who did not make it.  So, the new system clearly helped those teams.  Unfortunately, those "upgrades" came at the potential expense of some teams, like those above, who may feel as if they got screwed in the deal.   Are the gains worth that expense?  That's for you to decide.   

 

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1 minute ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Last year, in Classes 5A-8A, 21 teams made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Only 3 of those teams that did not make it had 3 or fewer losses.

This year, 23 teams in Classes 5A-8A made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Of those 23, 8 teams had 3 or fewer losses:

 

George Jenkins(8A) 7-3   a 5-5 team made it

Liberty(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Park Vista(8A) 7-3   a 6-3 team made it

Seminole(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Chamberlain(6A) 8-2   a 6-4 team made it 

New Smyrna Beach(6A) 7-3   a 4-6 team made it

Springstead(6A) 7-3   a 6-4 team made it

River Ridge(5A) 7-3  another 7-3 team made it

 

In addition, 3 teams with marginal records did not make the playoffs and district foes they defeated during the regular season did.  Those teams were Palm Bay(5A), Robinson(5A), and Mater Academy(7A).

A good number who made it this year under the new system were clearly "upgrades"  over teams from their respective regions who did not make it.  So, the new system clearly helped those teams.  Unfortunately, those "upgrades" came at the potential expense of some teams, like those above, who may feel as if they got screwed in the deal.   Are the gains worth that expense?  That's for you to decide.   

 

Teams got screwed on old system as well so I would say no matter what system is used there is going to be teams that feel they were robbed 

 

In the case of teams in 5-8a all i have to say is win district and get in

 

Hagerty would have had no shot at getting in with points but bc they won district they made playoffs,  teams control their destiny but if they can't win district they have to fight for a wild card spot which usually leaves someone in the cold

 

 

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2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Bartram Trail should have been in.  I would like to see shootouts come back if there is a tie for champ.  Settle it on the field

I wish they were in,  as a 8 seed

 

I wanted to be responsible for sending them packing in their final 7a game in football and ending this playoff rivalry by standing on top

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Jensen Beach (6-4) were the 8th seed going into the final week and got jumped by then 10th seed Norland(4-6). They got screwed in the aspect Centenial and Port St Lucie decided to call their game due to lightning. This made Centinial 7-2. Most likely they would of beat PSL and made them a Cat 1 team if I’m correct at 8-2 and given PSL a 5 point bump and they would have made the playoffs. By canceling the game and not making up at a different time or location PSL got screwed out if the playoffs due to the points, they did what they needed to due but got let down by another team the final week.

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1 hour ago, Trelle said:

Jensen Beach (6-4) were the 8th seed going into the final week and got jumped by then 10th seed Norland(4-6). They got screwed in the aspect Centenial and Port St Lucie decided to call their game due to lightning. This made Centinial 7-2. Most likely they would of beat PSL and made them a Cat 1 team if I’m correct at 8-2 and given PSL a 5 point bump and they would have made the playoffs. By canceling the game and not making up at a different time or location PSL got screwed out if the playoffs due to the points, they did what they needed to due but got let down by another team the final week.

Given the new points system, all games should be made up. To have games not played or ending without a result is not acceptable. In fact, it may create a situation where two teams willfully conspire against another team keeping them out by creating just such a situation. 

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8 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

One of biggest criticisms of this system is that the results are not decided on the field you play but on fields hours away. This is an example of that.

It is decided on the field in the large classifications 

 

5-8a all they have to do is win district and they in,  if they fail to then they are have to fight for wild card spot 

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Right but those wild cards aren't decided on the field that these teams are playing on. But instead fields far away that should be frustrating to all fans.

 

And also that means 1A-4A, you are agreeing that it isn't decided by winning but on who you play. That is unacceptable 

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18 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Right but those wild cards aren't decided on the field that these teams are playing on. But instead fields far away that should be frustrating to all fans.

 

And also that means 1A-4A, you are agreeing that it isn't decided by winning but on who you play. That is unacceptable 

Maybe not but I'm perfectly fine with wild cards being that way,  if you don't win district then you have to fight to get in, whatever it takes to make every week important is good with me which is what the old system failed to do

 

When only a select few district games meant anything for playoffs and the other games meant nothing it is tough to hype up the importance of those games, i like the fact every game matters.  It is making every week important and feels more like a college season and the intensity of every game is electric 

 

 

 

........

 

 

Yeah 1-4a is problematic but that's what the school reps asked for in those classes, if the teams hate it why are they speaking up now and not then? 

 

The athletic directors in the large classifications spoke up and demanded districts stay put and got it,  the small classes could have done the same but they didn't 

 

 

Yes adjustments need to be made but I still see what they doing as a step in the right direction, now if they will cut a class or 2 they probably would fix the biggest issues we seeing now, another idea is maybe go to 2 regions in 1-4a instead of 4 regions (they could do 8 teams in 2 regions for 16 total teams) 

 

It would level out some of the weaker regions in those small classes and since we no longer have districts they don't need to have such a strict splitting of the regions

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Chamberlain, who did not make the playoffs, finished 8-2 and runner-up to Armwood in 6A-D7, which has 6 teams.  Chamberlain was 4-1 in the district and lost to Armwood, who finished the season 9-1.  Chamberlain's other loss came to non-district 9-1 Bloomingdale.  Chamberlain and Armwood were the only two teams in the district with winning records.  So, within its district, Chamberlain had one shot at a Cat 1 or 2 win, and that wasn't likely to happen against Armwood.       

South Lake, who made the playoffs in the same region, finished the season 6-4 and 2-3 in their district(fourth place). 4 of the 6 teams in their district had winning records.  They had to go to OT to beat a 3-7 East Ridge team and only beat one team with a winning record.  

Chamberlain seems to be in a tough spot.  Their only reasonable chance to make the playoffs each year is via a wildcard.  They were forced to play 4 Cat 3/4 teams in their district this year.  At 8-2, I am not sure how much better the team could have done.  If Chamberlain doesn't make the playoffs, it seems odd that a 6-4 team that finishes in 4th place in a district can make it.

  

 

 

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Chamberlain for sure got screwed. They were one of the better teams in the Tampa area. They lost to 9-1 Armwood and 9-1 Bloomingdale. When they played B-Dale, Chamberlain's all county QB was hurt.

 

This system is complete shit.

 

Gadsden County got in at 0-9. That's all you need to know about the FHSAA and why it should be disbanded..

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7 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Maybe not but I'm perfectly fine with wild cards being that way,  if you don't win district then you have to fight to get in, whatever it takes to make every week important is good with me which is what the old system failed to do

 

When only a select few district games meant anything for playoffs and the other games meant nothing it is tough to hype up the importance of those games, i like the fact every game matters.  It is making every week important and feels more like a college season and the intensity of every game is electric 

 

 

 

........

 

 

Yeah 1-4a is problematic but that's what the school reps asked for in those classes, if the teams hate it why are they speaking up now and not then? 

 

The athletic directors in the large classifications spoke up and demanded districts stay put and got it,  the small classes could have done the same but they didn't 

 

 

Yes adjustments need to be made but I still see what they doing as a step in the right direction, now if they will cut a class or 2 they probably would fix the biggest issues we seeing now, another idea is maybe go to 2 regions in 1-4a instead of 4 regions (they could do 8 teams in 2 regions for 16 total teams) 

 

It would level out some of the weaker regions in those small classes and since we no longer have districts they don't need to have such a strict splitting of the regions

District champs aren't always decided on field now either.  Bartram Trail shared the district title and did not get in.

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1 hour ago, 181pl said:

Chamberlain for sure got screwed. They were one of the better teams in the Tampa area. They lost to 9-1 Armwood and 9-1 Bloomingdale. When they played B-Dale, Chamberlain's all county QB was hurt.

 

This system is complete shit.

 

Gadsden County got in at 0-9. That's all you need to know about the FHSAA and why it should be disbanded..

Central scheduling will continue to cost Hillsborough county and anyone can see that

 

Fhsaa disbanded? You do realize that the schools had no problem voting for this system right?  But it's entirely fhsaa fault??

 

The schools are only complaining now because they couldn't do their damn job and make the playoffs, that's on the teams not a system not the fhsaa 

 

A lot of these schools send no reps to any meetings yet they are all ready to complain about everything wrong with the system but would rather whine on social media about how they got screwed instead of going and talking to the fhsaa up front about their issues

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22 minutes ago, badbird said:

District champs aren't always decided on field now either.  Bartram Trail shared the district title and did not get in.

They shared it,  they didn't win it 

 

Part of not winning it means having to fight it out for a playoff spot, them losing to Oakleaf cost them more than anything else this year 

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Columbia fan, why are you such a defender of this garbage system? I thought you were smarter than this. I know you're a young kid and all, but Common Sense dictates that this is a terrible system. It rewards teams based on past accomplishments in hypotheticals. Not on field accomplishments. That's garbage.

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Seminole, who did not make the playoffs, finished 8-2.  They are in District 2, which has 7 teams. From their district, Oviedo was a Cat 1, Lake Mary and Lake Brantley were Cat 3, and the remaining 3 teams in the district were Cat 4.  In a manner of speaking, Seminole was locked into half of its games against teams that offered minimal reward for beating, but a big loss in points if lost to.   

3 teams from District 4 made it: Apopka, Wekiva and West Orange.  Those are Cat 1/2 teams.  Let's use West Orange as an example.  (And FYI, my point here is not to debate the playoff worthiness of West Orange.)  West Orange played Evans(Cat 4).  Their other two games were against Cat 1/2 Apopka and Wekiva, which guaranteed them 30-35 points even with a loss.  Those games had, in a manner of speaking, low risk with a potential for big reward if West Orange beat them.  

This puts a team like Seminole at a distinct disadvantage when fighting for a wlidcard berth.  Even with competing districts of the exact same size, there is a bias for teams from stronger districts, ie more Cat1/2 teams to play.  With the current situation, ie districts of varying size and strength, the bias is even greater.  This situation forces a team like Seminole in a big district with numerous weak teams to take a gamble and schedule a very aggressive non-district schedule to make up for the handicap.   Add yet another variable, ie Hillsborough scheduling constraints, and it potentially creates even more of a bias against certain teams.   

In summary, there are too many variables at play here to allow the points system to work most effectively.  I don't have a dog in this fight and am open to the new system.  Just trying to point out some of its inherent flaws.

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34 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Columbia fan, why are you such a defender of this garbage system? I thought you were smarter than this. I know you're a young kid and all, but Common Sense dictates that this is a terrible system. It rewards teams based on past accomplishments in hypotheticals. Not on field accomplishments. That's garbage.

I hate any system where only a few select games matter and i hate having some pretend and non existent seeding where i have to dig for what side i am on some stupid bracket to find out if we home or away the next round 

 

The new system insures every game counts and that alone makes it better for me so i don't have to hear bullshit about it just being a "tuneup game that means nothing"

 

I like knowing we could be responsible for our rivals missing the playoffs by beating them in the beginning of the season, it makes those games matter more

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This will get fixed if enough of us actually care and speak out. But we need ADs and principals to speak up. I can see how some like the system. 3 teams in Plant's district got in. Looks like Centrals whole district got in. But I'm for limiting each district to two. Perhaps spreading strong teams around over multiple districts instead of lumping them in one would help.

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7ALiberty finished 8-2 as district runner-up and did not make the playoffs. Liberty resides in a 7-team district(District 5) with 1 Cat 1 team, 1 Cat 2, 2 Cat 3, and 2 Cat 4.  Only the district champion, Harmony, made the playoffs.  4 teams from District 8, a stronger, 7-team district, made the playoffs, including Gaither, Sickles and Wireglass, all of whom finished 7-3 with 38.5, barely beating out Liberty, who had 38.3. 

In District 8, Gaither, for example had to face 1 Cat 1, 2 Cat 2, 1 Cat 3, 2 Cat 4.  The difference between Gaither and Liberty's district schedule is subtle.  The former gets the chance to play one additional Cat 2 team.  If those two teams played the exact same non-district schedule and got the exact same results, Gaither has a greater opportunity to end up with more points by virtue of being in a stronger district.  In other words, teams from District 8 started off the season with a slight handicap over District 5, although they did not know it at the time.

This demonstrates the potential bias in the current system toward stronger districts.  Add on top of that the bias of different-sized districts, and the bias can distort further.  This is not to say there was not bias in the old system.

 

 

 

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On 11/4/2018 at 3:15 PM, OldSchoolLion said:

Last year, in Classes 5A-8A, 21 teams made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Only 3 of those teams that did not make it had 3 or fewer losses.

This year, 23 teams in Classes 5A-8A made the playoffs who would not have under the old system, and vice versa.  Of those 23, 8 teams had 3 or fewer losses:

 

George Jenkins(8A) 7-3   a 5-5 team made it

Liberty(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Park Vista(8A) 7-3   a 6-3 team made it

Seminole(8A) 8-2   a 7-3 team made it

Chamberlain(6A) 8-2   a 6-4 team made it 

New Smyrna Beach(6A) 7-3   a 4-6 team made it

Springstead(6A) 7-3   a 6-4 team made it

River Ridge(5A) 7-3  another 7-3 team made it

 

In addition, 3 teams with marginal records did not make the playoffs and district foes they defeated during the regular season did.  Those teams were Palm Bay(5A), Robinson(5A), and Mater Academy(7A).

A good number who made it this year under the new system were clearly "upgrades"  over teams from their respective regions who did not make it.  So, the new system clearly helped those teams.  Unfortunately, those "upgrades" came at the potential expense of some teams, like those above, who may feel as if they got screwed in the deal.   Are the gains worth that expense?  That's for you to decide.   

 

Chamberlain was a playoff caliber team but there are teams up there that probably should not have made it despite record IE (River Ridge, springstead,   George Jenkins, Liberty). 

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16 hours ago, Trelle said:

Jensen Beach (6-4) were the 8th seed going into the final week and got jumped by then 10th seed Norland(4-6). They got screwed in the aspect Centenial and Port St Lucie decided to call their game due to lightning. This made Centinial 7-2. Most likely they would of beat PSL and made them a Cat 1 team if I’m correct at 8-2 and given PSL a 5 point bump and they would have made the playoffs. By canceling the game and not making up at a different time or location PSL got screwed out if the playoffs due to the points, they did what they needed to due but got let down by another team the final week.

Norland made the playoffs last year with a marginal record.  And they probably always will unless teams like Jensen Beach and New Smyrna Beach take a chance and create a very aggressive non-district schedule.  Norland has an advantage by being in their district.  If Northwestern has a typical year and ends up Cat 1, that's 3 Cat 1 teams(NW, Carol City and Central) in the district with Norland.  In a manner of speaking, they start the season with 105 points, because they earn those points even if they lose to those 3 teams.  And if they happen to win just one of those, there's a huge reward.  

Under the old system, a team in a weak district got rewarded, ie easier to make district runner-up spot.  Now a marginal team can get rewarded by being in a stronger district.

 

 

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