Jump to content

Private Schools Dominating National Polls More Than Ever


OldSchoolLion

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

This is 100% on point!  For every Chaminade-Madonna, STA, JaxTCA  there are 10 other private schools trying to figure out how to field enough players to practice let alone play a game.

I think the call to separate private and public is aimed squarely at the traditionally highly successful private schools. C I seriously doubt that public schools would care if most non successful private schools were in their district or region.
 

Which is I why I like it that many of the small private schools went and formed their own independent conference, the SSAC, with its own playoff.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

This is 100% on point!  For every Chaminade-Madonna, STA, JaxTCA  there are 10 other private schools trying to figure out how to field enough players to practice let alone play a game.

I think the call to separate private and public is aimed squarely at the traditionally highly successful private schools. C I seriously doubt that public schools would care if most non successful private schools were in their district or region.
 

Of course. You don't want to play teams that stack the deck with 50 D1 players. Can't fix public school issues without removing private schools. I would go 4 public classes and 2 private classes based on population. Then an open private school class with the powerhouses. Open bowl at end of playoffs to give the strongest schools the chance to compete for open bowl title.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

Of course. You don't want to play teams that stack the deck with 50 D1 players. Can't fix public school issues without removing private schools. I would go 4 public classes and 2 private classes based on population. Then an open private school class with the powerhouses. Open bowl at end of playoffs to give the strongest schools the chance to compete for open bowl title.

Check out the student populations below.  Year-in and year-out, how many private schools could give a fight to St Thomas Aquinas?  What private school in their right mind would sign up to be in an open class with STA?  Please remember, AHP, Cardinal Gibbons and Chaminade are fairly new on the scene as "powerhouses," and could drop off very easily to "mediocre" status.  It has already happened once at Chaminade after Coach Guandolo left.

 Imagine if all of the transfers stopped today.  St Thomas would be at a huge advantage over most private schools simply because of their population size.  When looking at what's best for the greater good, having a school like St Thomas compete with the public schools is best.  The better public schools have proven they can beat them. 

At least now, talent amongst private schools in south FL is somewhat dispersed, giving kids opportunities to win state titles in 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A, 7A and 8A.  Take away that motivation, and it's conceivable it could make St Thomas Aquinas an even more desirable place to land. Imagine if John Dumore of Chaminade and Kenny McIntosh of University were at Aquinas right now.  Removing one problem could create another if we are not very careful.    

Student Populations

St Thomas Aquinas 2109

Columbus 1699

Archbishop McCarthy 1647

American Heritage Plantation 1506

Bishop Moore 1393 

Cardinal Gibbons 1158

North Broward Prep 983

Coral Springs Charter 983

Monsignor Pace 915

Belen Jesuit 873

American Heritage Delray 865

Pine Crest 841

Jesuit 790

Bolles 780

Lake Highland Prep 772

Tampa Catholic 763

University School 746

Bishop Verot 686

Pensacola Catholic 616

Clearwater Central Catholic 561

Melbourne Central Catholic 534

Trinity Catholic 529

Chaminade-Madonna 516

Cardinal Mooney 506

Cardinal Newman 498

Trinity Christian 428

University Christian 270

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note despite being #2 in population on that list, Columbus has never been a school with tons of D1 players. Last few years we have had maybe 3-4 on the roster at anyone time. And those kids were generally 3* types. Only last year did we have a few kids senior year rate 4*- Josh Jobe and Trajan Bandy.

181pl - there are huge differences between privates, even the big ones.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m always going to give props to my school Jax tca only has 428 kids that go to their school ... and their competing in 5a ... ppl can say what they want about recruiting I dnt really care... they are a private school in Jax fl and all the kids on the roster are from Jax fl.. where else are they suppose to get kids from ???  It’s not like they have a zone for their school.  All the kids on their team even since I played there have been there since 9th grade and most have been there since elementary ... on this years roster #3 their RB has been their since a freshmen .. he played behind plenty of good running back and when it was his turn he played .. they didn’t recruit him tho.. Jax tca just has good coaches and he learned from them and now he’s as good as he is today... #4 for Jax tca their Star WR has been their since I was a freshmen  that means like 2nd or 3rd grade!!! That’s a family I love that school and I dnt like when ppl try to talk about them and they know nothing about them... 

( PS. I KONW NOBODY SAID ANYHING ABOUT JAX TCA ON THIS POST .. I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Columbus is all boys see you have to double it. Same with Jesuit. So they are much bigger schools than they appear. Also that's why I'm suggesting an Open Class, I understand that all private schools are not on equal footing, so the open class would essentially take the powerhouses and put them together. And don't sell me some cry story about how American Heritage, TCA, and the other private superpowers can't compete with St Thomas. Too bad, stick IMG in there as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JaxTCA2010stateCHAMP said:

Well I feel Jax tca Can compete with Sta any day but that’s just me..

In the starting lineup i think Trinity can get enough players to compete with sta but question is would a team with a roster of (i think it was 40 players) be able to compete with the depth of STA 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 181pl said:

 exactly. I bet tiny Champagnat  could compete with a lot of five and six  A schools. All they do is recruit 20 or 30 D1 athletes and field a team.

This off-season Champagnat got raided by several publics including Miami Carol City (see 2017 transfer thread)

 

I don't think they will be getting 20-30 d1 players anytime soon and honestly wouldn't be surprised if they lose to admiral Farragut this week

 

2a is by far the weakest classification in the state, there is no 2a team either this year or during the past 3 years of the cycle that would be within 40 points of STA 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Columbus is all boys see you have to double it. Same with Jesuit. So they are much bigger schools than they appear. Also that's why I'm suggesting an Open Class, I understand that all private schools are not on equal footing, so the open class would essentially take the powerhouses and put them together. And don't sell me some cry story about how American Heritage, TCA, and the other private superpowers can't compete with St Thomas. Too bad, stick IMG in there as well.

What ColumbiaFan mentions is a big probIem.  Oxbridge, Chaminade, and University School have all crashed very quickly...from superpower to nothing in one season.  All of a sudden we would have a "superpower" in the open class getting beaten 50-0 because the coach and players left at the end of last season and it is a complete embarrassment.  It nearly happened again at Chaminade last season.

If these private schools had a track record of sustainable, high-level success for a substantial period of years, I would buy it.  But except for Bolles and St Thomas, all of the private schools have had ups and downs over the past 20 years just like the public schools.  That's a fact.  Most of these private schools have had off years when they could not even get past the first round in their respective classifications.  Imagine how they would have done against STA those years.  It's a myth that all of these private schools reload every year for years and years..for shorter periods of time, sure.  

And as fluid as things are now with coaches and players leaving, maintaining a high enough level of success to compete with a St Thomas year-in and year-out is getting exceedingly difficult.  ..unless, of course, private schools got even more aggressive attracting talent, and we don't want to encourage that even more, do we?

Who out there would be willing to bet their house that one of these "newer" private school powerhouses will not fall apart next year?  That's why defining a "superpower" would be very difficult, if not impossible.  IMO, only a program with many years of high-level success is considered a superpower.  Nobody except Bolles comes even close to STA in that arena over the past 25 years.  There have been too many flashes in the fan over time.        

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Below are the number of years between 2011-2015 that each private school won at least one playoff game.  IMO, if a team cannot win at least one playoff game each year in their respective class, most of which are quite weak, ie 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A, they are not a "superpower."  And of the few that did, some I would not consider a superpower (ie American Heritage Delray, Trinity Catholic, North Florida Christian) that puts out a team every year capable of beating the best teams in the state.

American Heritage Delray - 5

American Heritage Plantation - 3

Archbishop McCarthy - 0

Belen Jesuit - 2

Bishop Moore - 2

Bishop Verot - 0

Bolles - 5

Cardinal Gibbons - 0

Cardinal Mooney - 1

Cardinal Newman - 1

Chaminade-Madonna - 0

Champagnat - 1

Clearwater Central Catholic - 4

Columbus - 5

Coral Springs Charter - 0

Jesuit - 4

Lake Highland Prep - 0

Melbourne Central Catholic - 1

Monsignor Pace - 0

North Broward Prep - 0

North Florida Christian - 5

Pensacola Catholic - 2

Pine Crest - 0

St Thomas Aquinas - 5

Tampa Catholic - 3

Trinity Catholic - 5

Trinity Christian - 4

University Christian - 4

University School - 3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't look now, but Chaminsde is pretty damn good. So is University.

 

The U school in Jacksonville and North Florida Christian have dominated small private classes for years and years. So has Glades Day. Bolles and St Thomas have 20 football championships between them. That will grow this year undoubtedly. Trinity Christian is now a top power.  They can beat the best in the state. They played IMG pretty tough. American Heritage has been on top for over a decade. Throw-in up-and-comers like Cardinal Gibbons and consistently very good if not great teams like Bishop Moore, Jesuit and Belen Jesuit and Columbus.

This is plenty of evidence of an unlevel playing field. These same private schools dominate not only football but dominate in a lot of other sports as well. How many state championships does Bolles have in swimming? 40?

 

The best team in the state in wrestling is no longer Brandon. Although they dominated for years and years. Now, hands down, the best team in the whole state of Florida and top two or three in the country is Lake Highland Prep. They also dominate lacrosse. St Thomas wins volleyball almost every year. They beat Plant in about five or six state finals.  The best basketball team in the state hands down is Monte Verde. Throw in a few privates in the Jacksonville area as well. Also, how many baseball championships does do the privates get? Although they haven't been as great lately, Tampa Catholic has 9 or 10. I know there's Miami schools that have a ton as well.

The evidence is right in front of you. Just open the FHSAA record book. It's easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, SPCjessica2004 said:

This is 100% on point!  For every Chaminade-Madonna, STA, JaxTCA  there are 10 other private schools trying to figure out how to field enough players to practice let alone play a game.

I think the call to separate private and public is aimed squarely at the traditionally highly successful private schools. C I seriously doubt that public schools would care if most non successful private schools were in their district or region.
 

Bingo. 

I hate any school that cheats and recruits kids. During my tenure as an assistant coach, we lost kids to both public and private schools. With the current rules? The HS has been decimated of any and all talent by local public schools. Yet the people there have been convinced that private schools are the enemy. Ridiculous. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jags904 said:

Bingo. 

I hate any school that cheats and recruits kids. During my tenure as an assistant coach, we lost kids to both public and private schools. With the current rules? The HS has been decimated of any and all talent by local public schools. Yet the people there have been convinced that private schools are the enemy. Ridiculous. 

You coached in duval county correct? 

 

I feel I already know the answer to this but it would definitely satisfy my curiosity to hear it from someone with firsthand experience 

 

There was a ton of player movement (both to private and public schools) PRIOR to the new "student choice" law implemented last year correct? 

 

In other words the new rules didn't cause anything that wasn't already happening 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You coached in duval county correct? 

 

I feel I already know the answer to this but it would definitely satisfy my curiosity to hear it from someone with firsthand experience 

 

There was a ton of player movement (both to private and public schools) PRIOR to the new "student choice" law implemented last year correct? 

 

In other words the new rules didn't cause anything that wasn't already happening 

Duval and Clay. Still have friends throughout the area in Duval, Clay, St Johns, and Nassau. 

There was heavy transfers but this has caused an almost epidemic. There is a lawlessness in Duval where you never seem to know whose going where and why they are going there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine we had created an open, private school class in the mid 2000's.  Who would have been in it?  Chaminade-Madonna, Trinity Christian, Trinity Catholic and Monsignor Pace were all hot teams in the early 2000's who won state titles, so let's assume them.  

What would have happened in this open, private school class in 2007?  The short answer is, STA would have likely demolished everyone.  Trinity Christian lost to Episcopal School of Jacksonville and got knocked out of the playoffs 46-28 to Newberry.  Chaminade finished 5-6 that year, lost 41-3 to Pahokee and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs, losing 42-14 to Archbishop Carroll.  Trinity Catholic finished 7-5 and lost twice to Newberry, including in the playoffs.  Monsignor Pace was blown out by Miramar 48-20 was blown out by Aquinas 38-6.  St Thomas was a state title and finished 14-1.

As we all know, STA has the potential in any one year to create one of the top teams in the country.  Except for Bolles, no school in Florida since 2000 has demonstrated the ability to produce a championship caliber team every year.  In any one year, there are teams that can beat Aquinas, and in a "down" year, there might be private schools who could challenge them.  But for every down year STA has, they seem to have an up one.  And in those "up" years, if the other private schools happen to be down, like in 2007, it would be a bloodbath.

If not for Bolles and STA, it might have been feasible to have a private-only open class in the past.  But those two programs have been on a totally different level than anyone else.  Maybe things are changing at Bolles, but there is no sign of a slide at STA.

  

 

   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, JaxTCA2010stateCHAMP said:

I’m always going to give props to my school Jax tca only has 428 kids that go to their school ... and their competing in 5a ... ppl can say what they want about recruiting I dnt really care... they are a private school in Jax fl and all the kids on the roster are from Jax fl.. where else are they suppose to get kids from ???  It’s not like they have a zone for their school.  All the kids on their team even since I played there have been there since 9th grade and most have been there since elementary ... on this years roster #3 their RB has been their since a freshmen .. he played behind plenty of good running back and when it was his turn he played .. they didn’t recruit him tho.. Jax tca just has good coaches and he learned from them and now he’s as good as he is today... #4 for Jax tca their Star WR has been their since I was a freshmen  that means like 2nd or 3rd grade!!! That’s a family I love that school and I dnt like when ppl try to talk about them and they know nothing about them... 

( PS. I KONW NOBODY SAID ANYHING ABOUT JAX TCA ON THIS POST .. I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE )

Do you think they'll still be the same if Gus scott taking a HC job?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, joeycash2004 said:

Do you think they'll still be the same if Gus scott taking a HC job?

I really hope Guss doesn't leave they started coaching their my freshman year... But I don't think thing will change... Guss and the D coach coach Ross ran the offence  togather and vice versa for the defense... I think Ross can handle running the O just fine by hisself 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, joeycash2004 said:

Do you think they'll still be the same if Gus scott taking a HC job?

Absolutely. You’ll see more talent from Pro Impact follow him but they’ll still get their picks. TCA is doing a great job of getting the best youth football players into the school in middle school. 

If Gus goes to Raines, then I think you’ll see an even more talented Raines team than in previous years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other part of this question is home school kids. I know they are allowed to play at public schools. I know there is one private school where I live that has a team full of them. I don't believe they count on the enrollment but if you have 20 football players that are home schooled and just show up to play football I don't really see that as being fair. You could have a small school enrollment wise and add 20 players and become a different type team.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Jags904 said:

Absolutely. You’ll see more talent from Pro Impact follow him but they’ll still get their picks. TCA is doing a great job of getting the best youth football players into the school in middle school. 

If Gus goes to Raines, then I think you’ll see an even more talented Raines team than in previous years. 

So if Raine's win state, Wiley leaves for Georgia job, Gus takes over Raine's, trinity will still have state contender? Will be balanced... Heard Trinity oc now will go with Gus..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, joeycash2004 said:

So if Raine's win state, Wiley leaves for Georgia job, Gus takes over Raine's, trinity will still have state contender? Will be balanced... Heard Trinity oc now will go with Gus..

If Ross goes with Gus to Raines? Then all of the athletes will funnel there and TCA will decline & Raines will be the big powerhouse. 

If Ross stays at Trinity and Gus goes? There’s enough talent in the surrounding areas that they can both be dominant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, smashmouth80 said:

The other part of this question is home school kids. I know they are allowed to play at public schools. I know there is one private school where I live that has a team full of them. I don't believe they count on the enrollment but if you have 20 football players that are home schooled and just show up to play football I don't really see that as being fair. You could have a small school enrollment wise and add 20 players and become a different type team.  

It's the Tebow rule.  Not sure if TT ever counted toward Nease's enrollment....but he certainly played there.  Maybe that is why they have been bad ever since...Karma.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



  • Posts

    • Perhaps the best RB in Tampa Bay iin 2023 saw his program close, and is looking for a home. If he stays in the area,Venice is a good bet. (Lakeland may be as well).
    • And if that same newsletter asked the Osceola County Sheriff Department, what do you think the response would be? If you asked, members of the Chamber of Commerce? (Essentially a union of businesses) If you asked a group of nurses? If you asked a group of lawyers? Also a union cares about the working conditions of their members, but the working conditions of teachers are the learning conditions of students as well. People are attracted to careers because of the values that come with those careers. Political Parties attract people based on their values. So it shouldn't be surprising that certain professions attract certain people in certain careers. You act as if the principal's first question when we have a 5,000+ teachers shortage in this state is "who do you vote for? And are you a member of the union?"
    • I feel like y'all are always solid so I don't see y'all going no worse than 7-3. Biggest question mark for Cocoa is their O-line since they are only returning 1 and on the defensive side they only return their blue chip edge in their front 7 
    • Coach Wiseman, let me just preface this by saying that you were the best HC Sarasota's program has had in the last 20+ years. You brought them from being a perpetual losing program to the doorstep of competing with Venice for a district title and a deep playoff run. SHS will curse the day they fired you now that they are back in a rut. You are a true class act, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise.  Our backfield is certainly sparse right now. We do have Dorian Jones, a rising sophomore runningback whom did considerably well considering his limited playing time last season. Our offense will need an overhaul with the graduation of 3 offensive linemen and almost our entire receiving corps. Our defensive line will be strong with the return of Ke'shawn Vaughn, Elijah Jones, and Asharri Charles. Our linebacking corps graduates virtually everybody but should have at least one bright spot with the return of Ben Zarkawiecz. Our defensive backfield is still a work in progress with the graduation of Lester and Platt. At the moment, we have more question marks than exclamation points. And that's not a good feeling with the kind of competition Venice is going to face. 
    • It's possible that they find their stride by week 5, but at the moment we just don't have the on-paper talent to compete with teams like Miami NW, IMG National, Cocoa, or Bishop Verot. If Venice can find a way to go 7-3 with that schedule I would be happy
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...