Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Joshua Wilson

      Rules of the Forums   09/02/2017

      Please be sure to read the rules of the forums. This is only to help all of us have a good time and we want to keep this board as fun as possible. 
    • SportsNut25

      Talking Other Sports   11/08/2017

      For those interested in talking about other sports, you can talk about them here. 
Sign in to follow this  
WhatsUpDoc

Track vs Football

Recommended Posts

The past years I’ve noticed these two sports go hand in hand as track makes you fast in football. True or false? 

 

We we had a player in 2006 who was RB and a junior. He wasn’t fast per se. He runs track that school year then his senior year he was football fast. 

 

 is safe to say Track is very important for certain football positions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say this depends upon the school's offseason football program.

At some schools, a football player is better served running track and missing some of the offseason football program.

At other schools, a football player is better served fully participating in the offseason football program.

I've seen it both ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, WhatsUpDoc said:

The past years I’ve noticed these two sports go hand in hand as track makes you fast in football. True or false? 

 

We we had a player in 2006 who was RB and a junior. He wasn’t fast per se. He runs track that school year then his senior year he was football fast. 

 

 is safe to say Track is very important for certain football positions?

it depends because some kids who run a 10.2 in the 100m end up running a 4.5 in the 40 because the may not have good start of speed but once the hit stride at 50 yds, then they get faster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Normally the football players here usually do weightlifting (and off-season football program is included in that) but sometimes we have had a few of our receivers run track 

 

We have also had a few play baseball and basketball during the off-season and even though I don't think the coaches out here exactly like it they allow players to miss off-season program if they are playing another sport

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have coached both football and track for several years. In the short distance events, especially the 100 or 200m, there is so much technique involved that it doesn't really translate to a football field. However, I think it helps train kids to move full speed. They see what top-end looks and feels like, and that can help on the football field. Personally? I've always thought kids get faster with the offseason (December-August) strength program. I've always believed weights = muscles and muscles help you move faster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sprinting can be divided into three phases: Acceleration, max velocity, and speed endurance. In football, since most players achieve max velocity at 30-40 meters (and those are the one's that are trained properly), you are typcially looking at teaching them how to accelerate with proper mechanics, change direction, etc.....However there is nothing that is done in the weight room that can simulate the muscular contractile velocity of a full sprint. Sprints bring weights up, not the other way around. That last statement also assumes were not talking about little Johnnie that weighs 135 and squats 115. Buddy Morris, with the Arizona Cardinals, and Tom Myslinski, Jaguars, once said train your linemen like throwers (track), and your skill like sprinters in track. As everyone knows speed kills, and no one cares what your 1 rep max in a lift is come game day. The pure weightlifting community is usually misguided and not informed enough to realize that if you only lift between December-April until spring ball starts, then you lost out on a potential 50-70 sprint sessions that could enhance the overall athletic development of your players. 

Linemen typically covering distances of 10-30 yards in different starts. Big Skill 10-50, Little skill 10-100. The thought of you lift weights to get faster is very antiquated and outdated. The off-season provides you a great opporutnity to lift weights yes. Lift weights to add muscle mass, and to obviously get stronger. However, it also allows you the chance to teach proper sprinting mechanics, teach proper change of direction mechanics related to the players position. It is all about balnce, and also all dependent on where you are in the calendar year of training in preparation for your season. 

Let's note this too. Sprinting is only useful under full recovery. If your players are doing sprints where they are not at 95% or higher each rep of their best then it is essentially useless. So if a player is breathing heavily during a "sprint session" you are not doing sprints, and I don't know exactly what you would label that as. If you have your players do 10x30 yard sprints, then a typical rest between reps is 1:30-2:30 minutes, not 30-45 seconds. Just like if you had your player attempt a one rep max on something, his next attempt wouldn't be until about a 4-5 minute rest. 

Let's note this too. When attempting a 1 rep max in WL there is no set time that you have to achieve that lift. As long as the bar is moving in the positive direction it could take as long as the player takes to grind it out. But there is the quandry, we are talking about Weightlifting and speed, when the two true max attempts (lifting 1RM or one full out sprint) are complete opposite from a motor recruitment and muscular regime perspective. 

So yes, weightlifting is important of course, strength is important, of course, but there are a myriad of other qualities (max velocity, acceleration, reactive-elastic qualities, mobility, intelligence, speed reserve, aerobic capacity, etc.....) that enhance and create a quality football player. Each position has it's own qualities that you must focus on. Always look at the actual competition sport, football, not general things like weightlifting. 

To answer the question though track is the closest thing to football that a high school offers. Unless you have rugby or lacrosse. Florida is only one of two states in the US that has the clean and jerk as a competition exercise. Everyone else follows the standard powerlifting lifts. Squat, bench, Deadlift. The jerk transfers zero to the development of a football player, and puts unnecesarry stress on the shoulder joint that a football player doesn't need. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seen it first hand back in 2006 we had a RB who was fast but not that fast. He ran track after football and they all ended up at state that year. His senior year 2007 that kid was a difference between night and days, his running was different and he was just plain out fast. I asked the HC why does he look so different and the HC said "TRACK, track made him faster and he learned to run better." There is technique to help players and I think Track, Weightlifting and Football compliment each other more than people really think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/4/2018 at 1:36 PM, FL_HS_football said:

I've always felt like wrestling was ideal for linebackers....................

There is no better complementary sport in my eyes. When I was in my early coaching days, I was totally against it because I thought my guys would lose too much weight, blah blah blah. Then we had two JV backups become varsity starters the next year and they credited it to wrestling. They were more aggressive, more powerful, and could just manage their bodies better. One of them was a DL who went from 280 to 260 but looked much better. 

Obviously speed work and weightlifting are vital to success. If you aren’t doing those two things, then you’re getting passed up by those who are. 

If I were to ever get back into coaching, I’d want to be in a program where most of my guys to wrestle and we would have an offseason program in the morning where we did sprint work and weightlifting. Then do 7 on 7 in the spring and have the guys compete in weightlifting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jags904 said:

There is no better complementary sport in my eyes. When I was in my early coaching days, I was totally against it because I thought my guys would lose too much weight, blah blah blah. Then we had two JV backups become varsity starters the next year and they credited it to wrestling. They were more aggressive, more powerful, and could just manage their bodies better. One of them was a DL who went from 280 to 260 but looked much better. 

Obviously speed work and weightlifting are vital to success. If you aren’t doing those two things, then you’re getting passed up by those who are. 

If I were to ever get back into coaching, I’d want to be in a program where most of my guys to wrestle and we would have an offseason program in the morning where we did sprint work and weightlifting. Then do 7 on 7 in the spring and have the guys compete in weightlifting. 

Nice you had an epiphany and like what you said above because it is so true.  Will Putnam of Plant, one of the top lineman in the state, won the 3A 285-pound state wrestling title last season.

There is a long list of great football players of the past who were track and field athletes and/or wrestlers in high school and/or college.  It didn't seem to hurt them playing multiple sports, something that was very common in the 1980's and prior.  

Errict Rhett and Ray Lewis were both FL hs wrestling state champions.  There is a long list of former NFL linemen who were state champion wrestlers in high school.  Some were even NCAA All-Americans, ie former Patriot lineman Stephen Neal.  

About 25 years ago, we started seeing "specialization" at the high school level...and hs linemen weighing 300 pounds with no endurance and/or poor body coordination.  And this "new way of doing things" has persisted ever since.   Interview Putnam and I guarantee he would say that wrestling has upped his game in football.

Pound-for-pound, a good wrestler is so far superior to a football player in so many aspects..it's not even close.  Aleksandr Karlein of Russia threw world-class wrestlers his weight(285 pounds) around like rag dolls.  Compare his athleticism in just about any aspect with an NFL lineman of today and he would be ahead, if not way ahead.

If you don't believe me and happen to have a really good wrestler at your school, put him on the mat with one of your football players and see what happens.  Wrestling builds a core strength and coordination that is difficult to duplicate in other sports.  

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Nice you had an epiphany and like what you said above because it is so true.  Will Putnam of Plant, one of the top lineman in the state, won the 3A 285-pound state wrestling title last season.

There is a long list of great football players of the past who were track and field athletes and/or wrestlers in high school and/or college.  It didn't seem to hurt them playing multiple sports, something that was very common in the 1980's and prior.  

Errict Rhett and Ray Lewis were both FL hs wrestling state champions.  There is a long list of former NFL linemen who were state champion wrestlers in high school.  Some were even NCAA All-Americans, ie former Patriot lineman Stephen Neal.  

About 25 years ago, we started seeing "specialization" at the high school level...and hs linemen weighing 300 pounds with no endurance and/or poor body coordination.  And this "new way of doing things" has persisted ever since.   Interview Putnam and I guarantee he would say that wrestling has upped his game in football.

Pound-for-pound, a good wrestler is so far superior to a football player in so many aspects..it's not even close.  Aleksandr Karlein of Russia threw world-class wrestlers his weight(285 pounds) around like rag dolls.  Compare his athleticism in just about any aspect with an NFL lineman of today and he would be ahead, if not way ahead.

If you don't believe me and happen to have a really good wrestler at your school, put him on the mat with one of your football players and see what happens.  Wrestling builds a core strength and coordination that is difficult to duplicate in other sports.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure about wrestling being some end all for fitness. My son tried wrestling and found the workouts not too tough but the wrestling itself very tiring. He wanted to add weight between football seasons (he is super lien and super strong for his size; does lineman type weights at 145-150 lbs) so wrestling didn't lend itself to his needs, but if he had to only do one sport, wrestling probably would have been the best one for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, 181pl said:

I'm not sure about wrestling being some end all for fitness. My son tried wrestling and found the workouts not too tough but the wrestling itself very tiring. He wanted to add weight between football seasons (he is super lien and super strong for his size; does lineman type weights at 145-150 lbs) so wrestling didn't lend itself to his needs, but if he had to only do one sport, wrestling probably would have been the best one for him.

If kids are eating well and getting proper rest(both easier said than done) and have decent genetics, they should be able to pack on muscle, regardless of sport.  At that age, the hormones are there to make it happen.  What I just said goes out the window with a sadistic wrestling coach overtraining his squad and/or making a kid constantly lose too much to make weight. 

The problem in football is that some coaches push the issue of gaining weight for the sake of gaining weight, and not enough attention is put on the "type" of weight being gained.   There is so much misinformation/myth out there.   Anyone who thinks a kid can put on 20 pounds of muscle over a summer (and I hear this all the time) has no clue.  Guys juiced to the gills on anabolic steroids eating 5000+ calories per day cannot do that. 

The sad part is that we have a game today that forces a kid to gain weight instead of allowing them to play at a "natural" weight.  Some kids have fast metabolisms and gaining weight is really tough for them.  They are made to feel somehow inferior if they don't weight "x" pounds at a certain position.  There are a ton of good athletes out there that would have come out for football 30 years ago, but aren't today for this reason.

     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, they are in the growing years. He only put on about 10 pounds between seasons (but stayed in tremendous shape doing track) and he likely would have gained most of that weight without over-training on weights (which he tends to do).  His weight training added strength and toughness, but not too much body weight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Right, they are in the growing years. He only put on about 10 pounds between seasons (but stayed in tremendous shape doing track) and he likely would have gained most of that weight without over-training on weights (which he tends to do).  His weight training added strength and toughness, but not too much body weight. 

...and those slow gains are healthy, so bravo to him.  Big, relatively fast gains in body weight that we see in some football players are not healthy.  And anyone encouraging that is negligent.  At one point in my life I went on a campaign to become a monster.  I had my bloodwork monitored before and after the "experiment" and the results scared the hell out of me. 

Even with all of the additional weight, people complimented me on how good and fit I looked.  Yet what was going on inside my body was ugly, ie increased blood pressure, elevated levels of important stuff, etc.  Assuming that someone is healthy because they "look good" on the outside is foolish, as I learned.  Add on genetic predispositions for things like diabetes, and some of these kids today are being sentenced to a short life.               

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the day I competed in natural powerlifting and my body weight increased from 152 (high school) only to about 175 after college. Of course when we get older the lbs stack on due to metabolism, etc. Now I wish I could cut to 200, but at 50 it's simply a brutal uphill battle:).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 181pl said:

Back in the day I competed in natural powerlifting and my body weight increased from 152 (high school) only to about 175 after college. Of course when we get older the lbs stack on due to metabolism, etc. Now I wish I could cut to 200, but at 50 it's simply a brutal uphill battle:).

 

If you can stick with just vegetables for two weeks you can change your metabolism and lose a lot of weight. I did this and lost 20 lbs in two weeks from 240 to 220 but came back up to 225 due to some medical issues. Meat is the cause of most of our issues later in life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×