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What Is Normal for a First Season of HS Football?


OldSchoolLion

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It's quite normal for schools to struggle mightily in their first season of football.  Last year, 7A Windermere High played its first season of football.  They finished the season 0-10, and were outscored by opponents 419-7.  Their only offensive output all season was one field goal.  Running clocks were the norm.  They played 6 district games and the following 4 non-district, 8A opponents:

University/Orlando (2-9) 

Cypress Creek (3-7)

Olympia (6-5)

Wekiva (12-2)

Is this what we would expect of a program today in its first year?  I ask for the following reason.  Recognizing some schools are having a hard time getting kids to dress out and that some kids/parents/fans may not be as patient for success as those of the past, was starting Windermere off in a large, 7A district the best approach for a new program?  It forced them to play at least 6, 7A teams during the year. I've noticed some newer schools of the past started off in smaller districts and made a point to "schedule" down in their non-district games.  Being in Orlando, I am not sure if teams run into to challenges finding smaller schools to play.

I'm all about programs paying their dues and not making things overly easily.  But I also realize it is a much different world today than 40 years ago, yet we are still using the same approach to getting new programs started.  So, I am just trying to have an open mind to change instead of automatically defaulting to "just tough it out mode."  I'm not sure losing that badly is a good way to start a program.  

It raises the question, why would a team not even be able to score a single TD in its first season?  We cannot blame inconsistent coaching for that. And except for Wekiva, their non-district opponents weren't especially tough.  Is there something else we should looking at to ensure programs can be reasonably competitive in their first season?  What's missing?  I think a 0-10 can be considered "reasonably competitive," but not a 0-10 team than can only manage one field goal for the entire season.  That has to be pretty discouraging for the kids, coaches and fans alike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Windermere High played its first season of football.  They finished the season 0-10, and were outscored by opponents 419-7.  Their only offensive output all season was one field goal.  Running clocks were the norm.

Based on its administration (former APK) and location, I think Windermere will be fine in two to four years. Not saying they will begin making deep playoff runs at that point but should start accumulating winning seasons. 

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i know 3 guys that was on the staff the 1st year and 1 that is still there.  

their first season, was ran by a coach that had never been a head guy before.  not an issue, but im not sure if he had ever been a coordinator either.  the words I got from a couple of guys was, each week they put in a new offense because they couldnt score.  1 week lets run spread pass, air raid.  0 points, scrap it and monday were installing the wishbone, 0 points, now lets run the wing t, nope no points, empty qb single wing read option, negative points that week.

a brand new school, pulling from some local powerhouses, should be hiring a coach that has some history as the guy in charge.  scoring all but 3 points wouldnt have been a major eyesore if the kids got better weekly and you could see some type of idenity coming out.

now 2 of those guys are not on staff anymore.  they both told me it was a set up job to begin with, hire someone who will fall flat on his face and watch the current guy(who was AD and hired him) take over and they get some wins and he is the savior.

but, you know how disgruntled former coaches are, :)

 

new schools should be independent for the first 2 years, unless its in the middle of a cycle, go independent, then put them in a district. 

part 2 of that is, a brand new school is already 7a? 8a?  thats insane.  thats poor planning on the powers that be.  so the schools they took from, did they drop a class?  if the answer is no, thats a problem in itself.  school was way too big and overcrowded.  west orange was 45-4700 when they split, they didnt drop  a class, 2k kids from them went to windermere(which the community did not want btw) and they pull another few from olympia and its full.  didnt build to projections (west orange county is BOOMING), built to relieve 1 school, for the most part. 

windermere is now 8a...

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I would expect new schools to struggle generally at the higher levels and have more success at the lower levels.
So a brand new 4A school (after 2 years of being independent), I would expect to do better in their district than say a 6A school and a 6A to do better than an 8A school. I would expect this because of depth issues. In 8A, you just need more depth than a 4A school. I have no data, just an opinion.

Just curious, but does this problem show up in other sports or just football. Is football the program that needs a larger community support to create winning programs than say volleyball or soccer?

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11 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

I would expect new schools to struggle generally at the higher levels and have more success at the lower levels.
So a brand new 4A school (after 2 years of being independent), I would expect to do better in their district than say a 6A school and a 6A to do better than an 8A school. I would expect this because of depth issues. In 8A, you just need more depth than a 4A school. I have no data, just an opinion.

Just curious, but does this problem show up in other sports or just football. Is football the program that needs a larger community support to create winning programs than say volleyball or soccer?

In other sports it's more like you only need a few studs to be a good team while in football you need a solid amount of studs to have huge success

 

In softball for instance if you have 2 D1 level pitchers you in most cases will win at least 90% of your games

 

Similar in baseball as well, if you are stacked at pitcher you will likely be good for a state run regardless of class

 

But in football 2 D1 level players may be enough in a class like 1a but probably not enough in 8a unless you have solid players around them

 

 

In other words you don't need as much to win in those sports but it's usually harder to get those players 

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7 hours ago, DarterBlue2 said:

Based on its administration (former APK) and location, I think Windermere will be fine in two to four years. Not saying they will begin making deep playoff runs at that point but should start accumulating winning seasons. 

I agree 100% with this. Depends on the location and administration's commitment to football. When Miami Booker T Washington reopened in 1999 it was an instant football power because the majority of their students come from the Overtown area of Miami. It reopened to help relieve the overcrowded Miami High. As soon as Booker T reopened, all the athletes went there and Miami High football has never been the same. 

So I agree that location is everything for a starting program. 

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Hillsborough County is a good example of a place where newer schools struggle to achieve sustainable success.  Below are the schools that have opened there in the past 25 years and number of playoff games each has won since opening.  Wharton was a one hit wonder in the early 2002.  Wouldn't you think at least one of these would have become a regular on the playoff scene by now?

Hillsborough

Alonso(8A) 2001     1 p/o wins

Blake(6A) 1997     3 p/o wins

Durant(7A) 1995     5 p/o wins

Freedom(7A) 2002     0 p/o wins

Lennard(7A) 2006     2 p/o wins

Middleton 2002(5A) (reopened)     2 p/o wins

Newsome(8A) 2003     3 p/o wins

Riverview(8A) 1998     2 p/o wins

Sickles(7A) 1997     3 p/o wins

Spoto(5A) 2006     1 p/o win

Steinbrenner(8A) 2009     0 p/o wins

Strawberry Crest(7A) 2009     0 p/o wins

Wharton(7A) 1997      6 p/o wins

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10 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Hillsborough County is a good example of a place where newer schools struggle to achieve sustainable success.  Below are the schools that have opened there in the past 25 years and number of playoff games each has won since opening.  Wharton was a one hit wonder in the early 2002.  Wouldn't you think at least one of these would have become a regular on the playoff scene by now?

Hillsborough

Alonso(8A) 2001     1 p/o wins

Blake(6A) 1997     3 p/o wins

Durant(7A) 1995     5 p/o wins

Freedom(7A) 2002     0 p/o wins

Lennard(7A) 2006     2 p/o wins

Middleton 2002(5A) (reopened)     2 p/o wins

Newsome(8A) 2003     3 p/o wins

Riverview(8A) 1998     2 p/o wins

Sickles(7A) 1997     3 p/o wins

Spoto(5A) 2006     1 p/o win

Steinbrenner(8A) 2009     0 p/o wins

Strawberry Crest(7A) 2009     0 p/o wins

Wharton(7A) 1997      6 p/o wins

25 years?  That's 6 graduating classes.  Past 5 years as school stops being "new"  

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52 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

25 years?  That's 6 graduating classes.  Past 5 years as school stops being "new"  

If you read my other posts on this topic, you'll under the context.  These are the "newer" schools in Hillsborough County relative to the Stone Ages.  These schools have had anywhere up to 25 years to build their programs and take off.  The point here is that the vast majority of schools that have opened over the past 25 years throughout the state have failed to achieve sustainable success.  There are a myriad of schools around the state that have been around 15 years that have tasted limited success, if any.  Hillsborough County is chock full of mediocre teams.  The big question is "why?"  Hillsborough has a huge population, relatively rich talent pool, and a rich football history.  So why have so many teams on the list had such minimal success in terms of playoff appearances/victories?   I certainly wouldn't expect all of them to be great successes, or even half of them.  But not one is a name routinely mentioned in playoff discussions.  Seems a bit odd in a place like Hillsborough.

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