How Many Transfers Played on St Thomas' 2006 Team?

[OldSchoolLion]

All of the following kids who played on St Thomas' 2006 state final team returned from their 2005 team.  Only 4 other kids, all juniors, saw playing time in the 06 state final game versus Lakeland, and none of them were big names at the time.   I think it is likely they were moved up from their JV team that year, though I cannot confirm it.  

In the mid 2000's, both St Thomas and Chaminade-Madonna were challenging for state titles.  Neither of them were relying upon transfers to do so.  That is not to say they did not get any.  I think there has been a substantial jump in transfers at certain schools compared to only 10-15 years ago.  I would love for someone to show me the facts behind claims that the level of transfers we are seeing today has been going on for many years.  Until someone does, I am convinced that what we have seen this decade is unprecedented.  It is a disservice to teams of the past, like St Thomas's 2006 team, to make assumptions that certain teams "always got lots of transfers."        

  

Wesley Carroll/QB     senior

Jeremiah Harden/RB     junior

Daryl Robinson/RB     senior

Ronnie Kennedy/RB     sophomore

Giovani Bernard/RB     freshman

Leonard Hankerson/WR     senior

Phillip Pierre Louis/WR     junior

Kyle Johnson/WR     senior

Kyle Tuthill/WR     senior

John Goodner/OL     senior

Stephen Simmons/OL     senior

Nicholas Pieschel/OL     senior

Matthew Douglas/LB     senior

Matthew Shula/LB     senior

Jeffrey Fuller/LB     senior

John Wilkins/LB     senior

Major Wright/DB     senior

Kevyn Scott/DB     senior

Jaren Gooden/DB     senior

Vincent Zann/DL     senior

Antwan Davis/DL     senior

Michael Groody/P     senior

Wes Byrum/K     senior 

[DisabledAccount]

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

All of the following kids who played on St Thomas' 2006 state final team returned from their 2005 team.  Only 4 other kids, all juniors, saw playing time in the 06 state final game versus Lakeland, and none of them were big names at the time.   I think it is likely they were moved up from their JV team that year, though I cannot confirm it.  

In the mid 2000's, both St Thomas and Chaminade-Madonna were challenging for state titles.  Neither of them were relying upon transfers to do so.  That is not to say they did not get any.  I think there has been a substantial jump in transfers at certain schools compared to only 10-15 years ago.  I would love for someone to show me the facts behind claims that the level of transfers we are seeing today has been going on for many years.  Until someone does, I am convinced that what we have seen this decade is unprecedented.  It is a disservice to teams of the past, like St Thomas's 2006 team, to make assumptions that certain teams "always got lots of transfers."        

  

Wesley Carroll/QB     senior

Jeremiah Harden/RB     junior

Daryl Robinson/RB     senior

Ronnie Kennedy/RB     sophomore

Giovani Bernard/RB     freshman

Leonard Hankerson/WR     senior

Phillip Pierre Louis/WR     junior

Kyle Johnson/WR     senior

Kyle Tuthill/WR     senior

John Goodner/OL     senior

Stephen Simmons/OL     senior

Nicholas Pieschel/OL     senior

Matthew Douglas/LB     senior

Matthew Shula/LB     senior

Jeffrey Fuller/LB     senior

John Wilkins/LB     senior

Major Wright/DB     senior

Kevyn Scott/DB     senior

Jaren Gooden/DB     senior

Vincent Zann/DL     senior

Antwan Davis/DL     senior

Michael Groody/P     senior

Wes Byrum/K     senior 

Never said the transfers were at the same level before

 

My argument is that the "school choice" which was passed last year didn't cause anything that wasn't already happening (players in metro areas have basically been able to move freely with no consequences for years which is a fact)

 

It seems honestly that lack of stability and structure is the root cause of the massive increase in transfers as well as it being perceived as normal to see a loads of players move schools and that may not get better

[OldSchoolLion]

2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

My argument is that the "school choice" which was passed last year didn't cause anything that wasn't already happening (players in metro areas have basically been able to move freely with no consequences for years which is a fact)

 

Without data/numbers, it is very difficult for anyone to accurately assess the impact of the legislation.  Likewise, I think it is a big stretch to make statements like, "I guarantee you that in places like Jacksonville (who has always been very loose with player movement) has had teams with multiple transfers probably going back to the 50s and 60s." 

Forget the 50's and 60's.  I am baffled how you can even talk about transferring in the early 2000's without data/facts/examples, recognizing you were just a young child then and certainly not tracking transfers at the time.  Find some data to back up your statements.  It could be a fun exercise.  

[DisabledAccount]

13 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Without data/numbers, it is very difficult for anyone to accurately assess the impact of the legislation.  Likewise, I think it is a big stretch to make statements like, "I guarantee you that in places like Jacksonville (who has always been very loose with player movement) has had teams with multiple transfers probably going back to the 50s and 60s." 

Forget the 50's and 60's.  I am baffled how you can even talk about transferring in the early 2000's without data/facts/examples, recognizing you were just a young child then and certainly not tracking transfers at the time.  Find some data to back up your statements.  It could be a fun exercise.  

I can barley track the transfers in the current year for Jacksonville

 

The biggest issue is the fact that the media in North Florida never speaks about transfers, I couldn't even find these transfers out until I joined a Duval area football FB group

 

Before than I never saw a single announcement of any duval transfer on any social media sites

 

South Florida to their credit is much more transparent when it comes to transfers as there are actually sports writers who will share and even discuss the transfers 

[OldSchoolLion]

I just did the same exercise as above for Lakeland's 2006 state champion team.  There were a couple of kids who saw regular playing time during the 06 season who were not on the roster in 05.  One appears to have been at Lakeland his whole career.  Am not sure about the other.  As best I can tell, all of the remaining, regular starters on that 06 team were at Lakeland in 05 and did not transfer in for the 06 season.  

Michael Pouncey, Maurkice Pouncey, Paul Wilson, Ahmad Black, Jamar Taylor, Chris Rainey, Steve Wilks, Jordan Hammond, and John Brown were the big name seniors on that Lakeland team.  All of them got D-1 scholarships, and none of them transferred into Lakeland for the 06 season.  They were there in 05, if not before.

So, like St Thomas of 06, here is another example of a team that did not "reload with transfers" in order to be competitive.  

  

[Perspective]

Here's my perspective:  before the law changed, and kids could transfer to any school they want, public schools like Lakeland knew that they had to get the promising middle-school athletes and the "out of district" kids into their schools for the ninth grade.  Similarly, private schools like STA knew that they would raise fewer eyebrows if they brought the 'scholarship kids' in as freshman, knowing that they might swing and miss on a few of their choices (and, occasionally, the scholarship would mysteriously disappear).  Once in a school like Lakeland or STA got a player into their school, even the best players would typically play at least one year on JV (STA Giovani Bernard, who went on to play with the Bengals in the NFL, was an exception).  But once a kid started out a school, it made it easier for the kids to stay there all four years.   And no one really questioned the kid in his junior or senior year if that kid had been at that school from the beginning.  

With free choice, high school coaches at the better schools can simply get the word out and then wait for the right kids to transfer in. 

And don't overlook the impact that "all star" 7 on 7 teams have had on the transfer impact.  I remain convinced that when you look at coaches and "handlers" (the ones who typically are in the "recruiting spotlight"), their impact is not nearly as great as good, old-fashioned peer pressure. 

[OldSchoolLion]

8 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Here's my perspective:  before the law changed, and kids could transfer to any school they want, public schools like Lakeland knew that they had to get the promising middle-school athletes and the "out of district" kids into their schools for the ninth grade.  Similarly, private schools like STA knew that they would raise fewer eyebrows if they brought the 'scholarship kids' in as freshman, knowing that they might swing and miss on a few of their choices (and, occasionally, the scholarship would mysteriously disappear).  Once in a school like Lakeland or STA got a player into their school, even the best players would typically play at least one year on JV (STA Giovani Bernard, who went on to play with the Bengals in the NFL, was an exception).  But once a kid started out a school, it made it easier for the kids to stay there all four years.   And no one really questioned the kid in his junior or senior year if that kid had been at that school from the beginning.  

With free choice, high school coaches at the better schools can simply get the word out and then wait for the right kids to transfer in. 

And don't overlook the impact that "all star" 7 on 7 teams have had on the transfer impact.  I remain convinced that when you look at coaches and "handlers" (the ones who typically are in the "recruiting spotlight"), their impact is not nearly as great as good, old-fashioned peer pressure. 

I appreciate your post and think you are spot on with your observations.  I agree the private schools were more low key with their scholarship players in years past.  And I didn't hear much complaining about those kids when they were at the school for their whole career.  The schools were "investing" in the kids and vice versa..at least that was the perception.

I'll add to 7-on-7 teams the emergence of social media and skyrocketing costs of college as variables that have had an impact and created the frenzy we have seen this decade.  I think social media has compounded the "peer pressure" phenomenon, since everything now is so public. 

Today things are just so much more blatant.  Gosh, why not have a classified section for coaches where they can advertise present/future "openings?"  That mindset of "getting the word out" really blossomed when the legislation changed...at least that is my perception.  It seems there has been a perfect storm this decade that has enabled us to get where we are.    

[DisabledAccount]

47 minutes ago, Perspective said:

Here's my perspective:  before the law changed, and kids could transfer to any school they want, public schools like Lakeland knew that they had to get the promising middle-school athletes and the "out of district" kids into their schools for the ninth grade.  Similarly, private schools like STA knew that they would raise fewer eyebrows if they brought the 'scholarship kids' in as freshman, knowing that they might swing and miss on a few of their choices (and, occasionally, the scholarship would mysteriously disappear).  Once in a school like Lakeland or STA got a player into their school, even the best players would typically play at least one year on JV (STA Giovani Bernard, who went on to play with the Bengals in the NFL, was an exception).  But once a kid started out a school, it made it easier for the kids to stay there all four years.   And no one really questioned the kid in his junior or senior year if that kid had been at that school from the beginning.  

With free choice, high school coaches at the better schools can simply get the word out and then wait for the right kids to transfer in. 

And don't overlook the impact that "all star" 7 on 7 teams have had on the transfer impact.  I remain convinced that when you look at coaches and "handlers" (the ones who typically are in the "recruiting spotlight"), their impact is not nearly as great as good, old-fashioned peer pressure. 

This ^^^

 

Agree 1000 percent, honestly it's ironic that often you have stud kids who start summer at several different high schools but by end of summer you have 3 or 4 studs deciding to all go to one school

 

Question is though is the recruiting coming from players or coaches? Most the time when the players are recruiting face to face there is no evidence of it and schools can easily get away with it

[DisabledAccount]

28 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I appreciate your post and think you are spot on with your observations.  I agree the private schools were more low key with their scholarship players in years past.  And I didn't hear much complaining about those kids when they were at the school for their whole career.  The schools were "investing" in the kids and vice versa..at least that was the perception.

I'll add to 7-on-7 teams the emergence of social media and skyrocketing costs of college as variables that have had an impact and created the frenzy we have seen this decade.  I think social media has compounded the "peer pressure" phenomenon, since everything now is so public. 

Today things are just so much more blatant.  Gosh, why not have a classified section for coaches where they can advertise present/future "openings?" That mindset of "getting the word out" really blossomed when the legislation changed...at least that is my perception.  It seems there has been a perfect storm this decade that has enabled us to get where we are.    

It did increase once the law passed, I never tried to argue that

 

I only argue that we were seeing a ton of movement before the law passed, especially in metros

 

This is in response to some people out there who imply these new rules suddenly allowed transferring that wasn't allowed before when in reality all the law did was make it easier to move schools but the transfers were already at a high rate before the law

 

I don't think the transfer law last year caused a huge increase from the last year before the law (probably over 100 transfers in South Florida both year before and first year of law)

 

(Citing the transfer threads on the boards from 2017 and 2018 as sources if I can ever find them)

[OldSchoolLion]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Here's my perspective:  before the law changed, and kids could transfer to any school they want, public schools like Lakeland knew that they had to get the promising middle-school athletes and the "out of district" kids into their schools for the ninth grade.  Similarly, private schools like STA knew that they would raise fewer eyebrows if they brought the 'scholarship kids' in as freshman, knowing that they might swing and miss on a few of their choices (and, occasionally, the scholarship would mysteriously disappear).  Once in a school like Lakeland or STA got a player into their school, even the best players would typically play at least one year on JV (STA Giovani Bernard, who went on to play with the Bengals in the NFL, was an exception).  But once a kid started out a school, it made it easier for the kids to stay there all four years.   And no one really questioned the kid in his junior or senior year if that kid had been at that school from the beginning.  

With free choice, high school coaches at the better schools can simply get the word out and then wait for the right kids to transfer in. 

And don't overlook the impact that "all star" 7 on 7 teams have had on the transfer impact.  I remain convinced that when you look at coaches and "handlers" (the ones who typically are in the "recruiting spotlight"), their impact is not nearly as great as good, old-fashioned peer pressure. 

I'll throw one more potential variable out there...changing mindsets of parents.  Years ago, there was a large subset of the parenting population who likely would have said "hell no," my kid is not moving from school to school each year because it is not good for his education(some research that backs this) and teaches the wrong life lessons.  As that generation of parents gets replaced, it would not surprise me to learn that parents today fall more into the "ends justify the means" or "do whatever it takes" mindset for their kids.  Unfortunately, I don't think some of this new generation of parents are looking at the big picture when making decisions concerning their kids.     

[Perspective]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I'll throw one more potential variable out there...changing mindsets of parents.  Years ago, there was a large subset of the parenting population who likely would have said "hell no," my kid is not moving from school to school each year because it is not good for his education(some research that backs this) and teaches the wrong life lessons.  As that generation of parents gets replaced, it would not surprise me to learn that parents today fall more into the "ends justify the means" or "do whatever it takes" mindset for their kids.  Unfortunately, I don't think some of this new generation of parents are looking at the big picture when making decisions concerning their kids.     

I agree with you on this point -- with one possible caveat.   In my view, there is one position on the football field where it makes sense for a kid to transfer (and where it might be smart for the parents to not only support the transfer decision, but possibly encourage it).  And that's the QB (possibly a kicker).  Here's my thought process:  for the most part, there's only one starting QB.  There may be five offensive linemen and three or four defensive linemen, RB's, WR's, LB's and DB's on the field at any given time.  But there's only one QB.  A second string QB on a good team could very well be the second best QB in the area, but no one's going to see him if he's never on the field. 

Case in point:  last spring, Tampa Plant had a couple of kids transfer in that played QB.  I say a "couple," but at one point, I think there were as many as six kids all battling it out for the starting QB spot.  One of the kids was a junior at the time (a senior this past fall) who already held a handful of offers.  As it turns out, he got beat out by a sophomore at the time (junior this past season).  The first kid finished up the spring at Plant and then immediately transferred to his third school in less than a year. I can understand his thinking and his parents' thinking:  would those prior offers still be around if the kid is sitting on the bench?  Certainly you can't expect any new offers to come along if you're not producing any new tape, right?  In the end, it worked out well for both kids and they'll both have the opportunity to play college football at good schools. 

So, while I agree with your comments, I do believe there are circumstances where it makes sense to consider transferring.  And if a college scholarship is the only realistic way of getting to college, then perhaps the ends do justify the means.  But those situations are a far cry different than the kids/families who move simply because the grass looked greener elsewhere. 

[954gator]

Ehh there have always been transfers.  I just don't think they were as big of a deal back then as they are now.   Obviously there are more now than before though.    I think the youth travel teams and 7v7 are the biggest factors.  

[Hwy17]

As I seem to recall back in 2005-2006, the message board over on Flavarsity was buzzing with how many transfers Lakeland was getting and a lot of accusations were coming from the STA fans.  

[DisabledAccount]

18 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

As I seem to recall back in 2005-2006, the message board over on Flavarsity was buzzing with how many transfers Lakeland was getting and a lot of accusations were coming from the STA fans.  

By STA fans are you referring to cane boy aka Los??

 

No surprise some keyboard joke like him would be one to whine because STA was getting teeth kicked in LMAO

 

He one of those people who think STA is entitled to win state every year and when they don't he turns into a baby

[954gator]

On 3/13/2019 at 10:05 AM, Hwy17 said:

As I seem to recall back in 2005-2006, the message board over on Flavarsity was buzzing with how many transfers Lakeland was getting and a lot of accusations were coming from the STA fans.  

Lol they beat us 3 years in a row with alot of the same core players.  They were just nasty and always played their A game in the finals.