The new North Florida League 1A

[blackmagic]

My only problem with 1A and FHSAA is all that red on the map is considered north Florida, Correct??? Isnt Madison County in that red??? Why does FHSAA place Madison in region 3??? With Chiefland, Dixie, Trenton instead of with the other North 1A schools?? They put Taylor County in Region 2 with north schools and Madison is North of Taylor. Let's actually have a north vs south in the state championship. 

[gatorman-uf]

1 hour ago, blackmagic said:

My only problem with 1A and FHSAA is all that red on the map is considered north Florida, Correct??? Isnt Madison County in that red??? Why does FHSAA place Madison in region 3??? With Chiefland, Dixie, Trenton instead of with the other North 1A schools?? They put Taylor County in Region 2 with north schools and Madison is North of Taylor. Let's actually have a north vs south in the state championship. 

We get it. You are tired of Hawthorne losing to Madison County. ColumbiaFan will announce you are chicken for that.

 

While we call them North and South, the panhandle portion of the regions is west to east more than a North South. Reality is that there is a 2 minute difference between Taylor and Madison. Not really enough to get undies in a twist

[DisabledAccount]

7 hours ago, blackmagic said:

My only problem with 1A and FHSAA is all that red on the map is considered north Florida, Correct??? Isnt Madison County in that red??? Why does FHSAA place Madison in region 3??? With Chiefland, Dixie, Trenton instead of with the other North 1A schools?? They put Taylor County in Region 2 with north schools and Madison is North of Taylor. Let's actually have a north vs south in the state championship. 

The problem with 1a is they have it split into 4 regions for absolutely no reason

 

Those regions are too damn small, same goes for the regions in 2-4a

 

They need to go to 2 regions for those small classes, if there is no districts than who cares how spread out the regions are

[DisabledAccount]

6 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

We get it. You are tired of Hawthorne losing to Madison County. ColumbiaFan will announce you are chicken for that.

 

While we call them North and South, the panhandle portion of the regions is west to east more than a North South. Reality is that there is a 2 minute difference between Taylor and Madison. Not really enough to get undies in a twist

You gonna respond to my question I asked previously?

 

I asked should teams have to earn a  championship and as a result why should it be made easier when by making a championship easy to obtain it becomes devalued

[OldSchoolLion]

9 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Ok old school I'll put you on spot then

 

Do you think FL would benefit from having a open division like CA has?

I favor whatever gives coaches and kids today more of a feeling of ownership and equity in the current system.  The real problem we have today is not a "system" issue, it's a "people" issue.  ...certain people (coaches and parents) who have lost sight of basic tenets of sportsmanship and the reason we have hs sports to begin with....not to win at all costs and get kids into college   

[Proseteye]

I think that the FHSAA had it right in the first place. A transfer from one school to another and you sit out sports for one year. What in the heck was wrong with districts, anyway? These two things were the right things to do. Since it's been changed the entire HS football landscape in Florida is a mess. There are now so called "elite" football schools filled with transfers while homegrown players ride the bench and nobody can tell where they stand on the totum pole during the season since districts were abolished. Maybe this is the HS football that everyone thinks is just ducky. I think it's a total abomination and is not what HS sports should be all about, IMHO.

[OldSchoolLion]

...concerning teams running away from competititon

If a "natural" athlete did not want to compete against athletes using performance-enhancing drugs(PED's), like anabolic steroids, would we say that he/she is looking for an easy way out and not willing to put up a fight?  I bet many would say "no, a natural athlete should not have to compete against those who use PED's." 

I compare some of today's hs football program to PED users.  It is an active choice to use PED's, just as it is an active choice to field an all-star team of FBS athletes.  Some "natural" athletes don't want to compete against PED users as a matter of principle.  

 

[DisabledAccount]

22 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...concerning teams running away from competititon

If a "natural" athlete did not want to compete against athletes using performance-enhancing drugs(PED's), like anabolic steroids, would we say that he/she is looking for an easy way out and not willing to put up a fight?  I bet many would say "no, a natural athlete should not have to compete against those who use PED's." 

I compare some of today's hs football program to PED users.  It is an active choice to use PED's, just as it is an active choice to field an all-star team of FBS athletes.  Some "natural" athletes don't want to compete against PED users as a matter of principle.  

 

You think someone like Madison who is a isolated school in a overall poor area is a all star team?

 

I get where your argument is going and it's a fair point however I'm not understanding how it would apply to this situation?

[DisabledAccount]

25 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

I think that the FHSAA had it right in the first place. A transfer from one school to another and you sit out sports for one year. What in the heck was wrong with districts, anyway? These two things were the right things to do. Since it's been changed the entire HS football landscape in Florida is a mess. There are now so called "elite" football schools filled with transfers while homegrown players ride the bench and nobody can tell where they stand on the totum pole during the season since districts were abolished. Maybe this is the HS football that everyone thinks is just ducky. I think it's a total abomination and is not what HS sports should be all about, IMHO.

Well for starters it wasn't the fhsaa who created school choice

 

It was created by the state legislation, I'm not going get into a political argument over it but just look at which party has a majority and you will know who wanted this "school choice"

 

Also same state legislation who claims there is no money to increase public school funding or pay teachers or coaches better but have no problem giving millions each year to IMG Academy

 

 

Also what do you mean about districts? Can you elaborate on that?

[DisabledAccount]

9 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

We get it. You are tired of Hawthorne losing to Madison County. ColumbiaFan will announce you are chicken for that.

 

While we call them North and South, the panhandle portion of the regions is west to east more than a North South. Reality is that there is a 2 minute difference between Taylor and Madison. Not really enough to get undies in a twist

Yes Madison should be in the North however I bet if that had happened the protests from some of the 1a panhandle teams would have been even worse than normal

[DisabledAccount]

28 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...concerning teams running away from competititon

If a "natural" athlete did not want to compete against athletes using performance-enhancing drugs(PED's), like anabolic steroids, would we say that he/she is looking for an easy way out and not willing to put up a fight?  I bet many would say "no, a natural athlete should not have to compete against those who use PED's." 

I compare some of today's hs football program to PED users.  It is an active choice to use PED's, just as it is an active choice to field an all-star team of FBS athletes.  Some "natural" athletes don't want to compete against PED users as a matter of principle.  

 

 it's one thing to cheat it's another to be naturally good

 

If someone is cheating than yes I can buy the argument for separation 

 

But what defines cheating?

 

Is someone like Columbia who is almost entirely homegrown talent considered cheating if they get a transfer or 2?

 

Is Baker County considered a cheater if they get a transfer or 2?

 

What about Colquitt county who is almost entirely homegrown talent every year but is one of top public schools in the country?

 

 

If a school hasn't done anything to cheat than does it really make sense to separate them?

[OldSchoolLion]

6 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You think someone like Madison who is a isolated school in a overall poor area is a all star team?

 

I get where your argument is going and it's a fair point however I'm not understanding how it would apply to this situation?

I have heard folks on this board talk about Madison having an unfair advantage in terms of their classification.  If this is true...

My comments above were generalizations. There are numerous means by which a team/coach can create an unfair advantage.

[DisabledAccount]

Just now, OldSchoolLion said:

I have heard folks on this board talk about Madison having an unfair advantage in terms of their classification.  If this is true...

My comments above were generalizations. There are numerous means by which a team/coach can create an unfair advantage.

Ok fair enough

[DisabledAccount]

I'm glad you used the term natural athlete because it does actually give a good comparison

 

If both are natural athletes but one is just much better should they have to compete against each other or should they be separated based on skill?

[OldSchoolLion]

4 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

 it's one thing to cheat it's another to be naturally good

 

If someone is cheating than yes I can buy the argument for separation 

 

But what defines cheating?

 

Is someone like Columbia who is almost entirely homegrown talent considered cheating if they get a transfer or 2?

 

Is Baker County considered a cheater if they get a transfer or 2?

 

What about Colquitt county who is almost entirely homegrown talent every year but is one of top public schools in the country?

 

 

If a school hasn't done anything to cheat than does it really make sense to separate them?

Today we need rules and a roadmap to define everything, or so it seems.  Deep inside each of us there is a moral compass as to what is sportsmanlike and otherwise. We simply need to listen to it. 

Instead of focusing on teams running away from competition, we probably should spend more time scrutinizing the all-star teams who have loaded up their trophy cabinets instead of challenging themselves to a greater extent over the years.

 

[DisabledAccount]

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Today we need rules and a roadmap to define everything, or so it seems.  Deep inside each of us there is a moral compass as to what is sportsmanlike and otherwise. We simply need to listen to it. 

Instead of focusing on teams running away from competition, we probably should spend more time scrutinizing the all-star teams who have loaded up their trophy cabinets instead of challenging themselves to a greater extent over the years.

 

It does seem that when we look at a state like GA or TX (where public schools are given far better resources) vs FL (where publics are very underfunded) that it's ironic that privates in TX and GA aren't nearly as strong as in FL

 

Probably because in those 2 states publics are given a much higher priority than in FL 

 

Perhaps the way to take care of the "all star" issue is to better fund our public schools and privates won't be viewed as such an advantatous option

[PickSix]

Basically they have created their own district with a championship game on week 11? Similar to other teams making "conferences" and declaring a winner with 1A-4A teams. FHSAA stated majority of 1A-4A we're in favor of NOT having districts so they had more freedom, but basically these teams are doing the same thing in hopes of winning their "conference" (district). 5A-8A is good, why is that such a problem for 1A-4A? Winning a district is a goal before of course winning the ultimate goal - State.

[PickSix]

1 hour ago, Proseteye said:

I think that the FHSAA had it right in the first place. A transfer from one school to another and you sit out sports for one year. What in the heck was wrong with districts, anyway? These two things were the right things to do. Since it's been changed the entire HS football landscape in Florida is a mess. There are now so called "elite" football schools filled with transfers while homegrown players ride the bench and nobody can tell where they stand on the totum pole during the season since districts were abolished. Maybe this is the HS football that everyone thinks is just ducky. I think it's a total abomination and is not what HS sports should be all about, IMHO.

Isn't OTC getting a lot of kids this off-season (transfer season). It would be hard for y'all to suit up a team if they had to sit out a year! 

[blackmagic]

10 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

We get it. You are tired of Hawthorne losing to Madison County. ColumbiaFan will announce you are chicken for that.

 

While we call them North and South, the panhandle portion of the regions is west to east more than a North South. Reality is that there is a 2 minute difference between Taylor and Madison. Not really enough to get undies in a twist

Guess you got me! Hawthorne is tired of losing 1 game to Madison. We are 0-1 all-time and we are just tired of seeing them every year. Yep that's what it is.

Taylor and Madison should be in the "North"

[DisabledAccount]

21 minutes ago, blackmagic said:

Guess you got me! Hawthorne is tired of losing 1 game to Madison. We are 0-1 all-time and we are just tired of seeing them every year. Yep that's what it is.

Taylor and Madison should be in the "North"

Was thinking the same thing when he said it

[gatorman-uf]

3 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

You gonna respond to my question I asked previously?

I asked should teams have to earn a  championship and as a result why should it be made easier when by making a championship easy to obtain it becomes devalued

A state championship, no.
These teams aren't winning a state championship, though, they are winning the North Florida Football League. They as players, coaches, school, and community can assign whatever value they want to that. When I was a freshman, I ran track. I wasn't very good, but we had several quality kids. We weren't good enough to win dual meets against our rivals as they would destroy us in certain events. So we put a lot of our energy into winning the marquee event at the time the 4 x 400. The school won the 4 x 400 by beating our rivals and then winning the state championship in that event (to add to a couple of individual state performances). Our school didn't win the conference, county, or state championship in track, but don't ever tell me that the athletes didn't compete or that their one trophy wasn't meaningful.

As for why I want good teams to move up and bad teams to move down, very simple. I want teams to play teams on their level. We all understand that school size means less in many sports due to transfers. Stanton and Paxon over in Jacksonville are not going to be good in football ever and with Wolfson changing to a Magnet school as well, their days are numbered as well. So why not have them compete against similar quality teams, it doesn't mean they aren't competing, it just means that they aren't competing against a team that is likely to bash their brains in before the game starts. 

I don't want Valdosta State or Jacksonville University or Stetson or UWF playing against UF for similar reasons. I want similar quality teams playing against each other. I hate that UF plays FCS teams. Rural schools have legitimate concerns. I disagree with some of their concerns (I don't think some of the small private christian schools that are less than 200 kids are that much better than a good public rural school.) But I don understand their concerns.

I don't want CHS playing a Middleburg in football or Englewood because CHS is going to win easily. I want CHS to play 10 games that they have to compete in. Could they be 10-0? Sure, but I want them to have to earn it against similar competition. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

[DisabledAccount]

1 hour ago, gatorman-uf said:

A state championship, no.
These teams aren't winning a state championship, though, they are winning the North Florida Football League. They as players, coaches, school, and community can assign whatever value they want to that. When I was a freshman, I ran track. I wasn't very good, but we had several quality kids. We weren't good enough to win dual meets against our rivals as they would destroy us in certain events. So we put a lot of our energy into winning the marquee event at the time the 4 x 400. The school won the 4 x 400 by beating our rivals and then winning the state championship in that event (to add to a couple of individual state performances). Our school didn't win the conference, county, or state championship in track, but don't ever tell me that the athletes didn't compete or that their one trophy wasn't meaningful.

As for why I want good teams to move up and bad teams to move down, very simple. I want teams to play teams on their level. We all understand that school size means less in many sports due to transfers. Stanton and Paxon over in Jacksonville are not going to be good in football ever and with Wolfson changing to a Magnet school as well, their days are numbered as well. So why not have them compete against similar quality teams, it doesn't mean they aren't competing, it just means that they aren't competing against a team that is likely to bash their brains in before the game starts. 

I don't want Valdosta State or Jacksonville University or Stetson or UWF playing against UF for similar reasons. I want similar quality teams playing against each other. I hate that UF plays FCS teams. Rural schools have legitimate concerns. I disagree with some of their concerns (I don't think some of the small private christian schools that are less than 200 kids are that much better than a good public rural school.) But I don understand their concerns.

I don't want CHS playing a Middleburg in football or Englewood because CHS is going to win easily. I want CHS to play 10 games that they have to compete in. Could they be 10-0? Sure, but I want them to have to earn it against similar competition. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

Where do you place a team like them?

 

Does putting them in same class as STA make sense?

 

To me Columbia is in a similar boat to someone like St Augustine, mainland, niceville, Lincoln, Fort Myers, ect.

 

None of those teams can be put with someone like STA and it be considered "similar competition" 

 

As for the rest of what you said you make some good points

[Proseteye]

13 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Well for starters it wasn't the fhsaa who created school choice

 

It was created by the state legislation, I'm not going get into a political argument over it but just look at which party has a majority and you will know who wanted this "school choice"

 

Also same state legislation who claims there is no money to increase public school funding or pay teachers or coaches better but have no problem giving millions each year to IMG Academy

 

 

Also what do you mean about districts? Can you elaborate on that?

The Florida legislature created a bill that explicitly was meant for Academic Transfers. The legislature was previously trying to get vouchers passed to allow students from poor performing schools academically to use the vouchers to go to good performing schools.  No mention of any other type of reasons were given for transferring from one school to another. Sports rules and regulations were always left up to the FHSAA.  Somehow people thought that this bill was meant for transferring for any reason under the sun which it was not. The FHSAA dropped the ball and caved in to people misinterpreting the bill passed by the legislature. This has led to all sorts of misguided transferring all over the state. Heck, if you don't like the parking rules in one school transfer to another and then another and then another. A totally out of control situation that has not only screwed up the HS football programs but can we imagine how it has screwed up the overall initiatives and routines of the coaching staff and to a lesser degree school administrations. Florida HS football is being turned into a few elite powerhouse teams and then all of the rest. Not a pretty sight nor a very equitable one.

[Proseteye]

13 hours ago, PickSix said:

Isn't OTC getting a lot of kids this off-season (transfer season). It would be hard for y'all to suit up a team if they had to sit out a year! 

I have no idea. However, if OTC is getting transfers in they sure could have fooled me over the last 4 years when they were not very good. it is very difficult with a private school to not have students transferring in since private schools don't have districts and rely on incoming students to pay the bills and keep their doors open. And yes, the one year sitting out should apply to all schools public and private. If you can't form a decent football team from your local talent then so be it. Pahokee seems to be able to do it and did it when these rules were in place. If they can do it every other school can do it.

[gatorman-uf]

11 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Where do you place a team like them?

Does putting them in same class as STA make sense?

To me Columbia is in a similar boat to someone like St Augustine, mainland, niceville, Lincoln, Fort Myers, ect.

None of those teams can be put with someone like STA and it be considered "similar competition" 

As for the rest of what you said you make some good points

Name 80+ that can form a classification with an STA then that Columbia wouldn't be part of. There just aren't that many. Yes, every few years a Venice, Manatee, Lakeland, Miami Central, Dwyer, Miami Northwestern comes along that can beat them, but on a consistent basis, nobody is beating STA. Thus, you have to be willing to challenge them eventually.

Yes, I would put CHS football long term in the hardest classification. The reality is though they aren't playing STA to the state championship in any classification set-up. At state you have to beat who you have to beat.

Could we take the MaxPrep rankings or the Lazindex and make a top 96 classification (minus 1A/2A/IMG) and a highly competitive classification where it would truly be anybody's. Competition makes things exciting blowouts don't. I would bet if we took Stanton and put them in a 10 team district like the one below, all of these teams programs would grow. Sure one or two of these might become really good (which would be statewide average), but I bet the games would be competitive, more kids join, more students and community members show up.

1. Stanton
2. Providence
3. Paxon
4. Englewood
5. Wolfson
6. Bishop Snyder
7. Andrew Jackson
8. Westside
9. Episcopal
10. Terry Parker