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18 minutes ago, Proseteye said:

The Florida legislature created a bill that explicitly was meant for Academic Transfers. The legislature was previously trying to get vouchers passed to allow students from poor performing schools academically to use the vouchers to go to good performing schools.  No mention of any other type of reasons were given for transferring from one school to another. Sports rules and regulations were always left up to the FHSAA.  Somehow people thought that this bill was meant for transferring for any reason under the sun which it was not. The FHSAA dropped the ball and caved in to people misinterpreting the bill passed by the legislature. This has led to all sorts of misguided transferring all over the state. Heck, if you don't like the parking rules in one school transfer to another and then another and then another. A totally out of control situation that has not only screwed up the HS football programs but can we imagine how it has screwed up the overall initiatives and routines of the coaching staff and to a lesser degree school administrations. Florida HS football is being turned into a few elite powerhouse teams and then all of the rest. Not a pretty sight nor a very equitable one.

Completely misinterprets the bill.
"

The provision is substantially the same as legislation pushed in the House and Senate that gave student athletes more freedom to transfer schools without incurring penalties.

Among other things, the provision allows student-athletes to be immediately eligible when they enroll in or transfer to a school and requires a local board to establish eligibility criteria.

Sen. Kelli Stargel, the Lakeland Republican who backed the legislation, said the goal of the bill is for districts to treat high school athletes “the same way as if they are in band or drama.”

“Kids are so mobile these days,” she said. “There were a lot of ways that kids were getting caught up in the process.”

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7 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Completely misinterprets the bill.
"

The provision is substantially the same as legislation pushed in the House and Senate that gave student athletes more freedom to transfer schools without incurring penalties.

Among other things, the provision allows student-athletes to be immediately eligible when they enroll in or transfer to a school and requires a local board to establish eligibility criteria.

Sen. Kelli Stargel, the Lakeland Republican who backed the legislation, said the goal of the bill is for districts to treat high school athletes “the same way as if they are in band or drama.”

“Kids are so mobile these days,” she said. “There were a lot of ways that kids were getting caught up in the process.”

If that was the outcome of the bill I don't believe it was the original intention which was for academic purposes. I don't think that the legislators knew what can of worms they were opening. They should have left Florida sports rules and regulations up to the FHAA. These legislators rarely read the bills that a couple of committee members write. They just vote yes when the time comes. I think they made a horrendous mistake.

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The word on the street has always been that a number of well-healed Lakeland fans were upset with the FHSAA over the way the FHSAA handled a couple of transfers/investigations . . . so, they convinced State Senator Stargel to introduce the school choice bill in the Florida legislature.  The key to getting the bill passed was to make it look as generic as possible (i.e., equally applicable to band members, thespians and athletes alike), but there was no doubt that the intended purpose was to squeeze (if not punish) the FHSAA in retaliation for the perceived mistreatment of the Dreadnaughts.  Once the legislation passed, the FHSAA didn't have a choice -- they had to amend their rules to comply with the new state law. 

I'm sure that Ms. Stargel and her constituents were all patting themselves on the back a couple of months ago when Lakeland (with all of its 'school choice' transfers) won the 7A State Championship. 

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35 minutes ago, Perspective said:

The word on the street has always been that a number of well-healed Lakeland fans were upset with the FHSAA over the way the FHSAA handled a couple of transfers/investigations . . . so, they convinced State Senator Stargel to introduce the school choice bill in the Florida legislature.  The key to getting the bill passed was to make it look as generic as possible (i.e., equally applicable to band members, thespians and athletes alike), but there was no doubt that the intended purpose was to squeeze (if not punish) the FHSAA in retaliation for the perceived mistreatment of the Dreadnaughts.  Once the legislation passed, the FHSAA didn't have a choice -- they had to amend their rules to comply with the new state law. 

I'm sure that Ms. Stargel and her constituents were all patting themselves on the back a couple of months ago when Lakeland (with all of its 'school choice' transfers) won the 7A State Championship. 

Disclaimer...I am not a Lakeland homer.  Last season, Lakeland got one 2-star transfer.  That's nothing to write home about.  This year they got two 4-star players, and one was returning to Lakeland from IMG after playing at Lakeland his freshman and sophomore years, so some extenuating circumstances. 

If Lakeland is loaded with FBS talent, most of it did not come from their transfers over the past two years. As best I can tell, 10/13 players are not even rated.  I bet there are schools with lesser reputations than Lakeland who got more than two, 3-star or up players over the past two seasons. 

I will agree that in total, these transfers may have made a big difference, but the same could be said for a lot of schools because a lot of schools are getting a substantial numbers of unrated transfers each year.

 

Transferred in for this season:

1.)    Lloyd Summerall 4* DE  

2.)    Dywonski McWilliams QB 

3.)    Deyavie Hammond  4* OT 

4.)    Jaharie Martin LB

9.)    Willie Lampkin OG 

12.)  Tyler Sheffield OC 

 

Transferred in for last season:

5.)    Chris Howard WR 

6.)    Khalil Crawford  2* LB

7.)    Tony Ware DB 

8.)    Teshaun Nixon DB 

10.)  Tayshawn Rodman DB 

11.) Jace Hohenthaner K 

13.) Naveli Dixson OG

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3 hours ago, Proseteye said:

If that was the outcome of the bill I don't believe it was the original intention which was for academic purposes. I don't think that the legislators knew what can of worms they were opening. They should have left Florida sports rules and regulations up to the FHAA. These legislators rarely read the bills that a couple of committee members write. They just vote yes when the time comes. I think they made a horrendous mistake.

The FHSAA actively campaigned against the bill, the media even started calling it the Free Agency Bill. Sorry, our Republican led state legislature, knew exactly what they were doing and exactly why they were doing it. If they didn't shame on them the moreso for not listening to the FHSAA and coaches and instead listening to one person who had an axe to grind. Again the legislature (even with their current voucher push) cares more about the 4% of the kids attending private schools than they care about the 96% of the kids who go to public schools. 

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Some sports have/had county championships which are/were prestigious and a lot of fun to attend/participate in.  A team may not have a legitimate shot at a state title, but winning the county championship could be the next best thing. Teams across various classifications competed against each other.  

Am not proposing that for football.  Just throwing out an example I was reminded of by this League....a goal to aim for outside of a state title.   ...anything to generate excitement, I say.       

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@ColumbiaHighFan2017class

We are approaching March Madness and we are finishing up Championship Week. For many of the small schools, the conference tournament is the most exciting portion of it all. March Madness is something they can compete in, but they will take pride in winning in that conference championship because they are facing "like-minded schools" and that is what it comes down to. 

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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Disclaimer...I am not a Lakeland homer.  Last season, Lakeland got one 2-star transfer.  That's nothing to write home about.  This year they got two 4-star players, and one was returning to Lakeland from IMG after playing at Lakeland his freshman and sophomore years, so some extenuating circumstances. 

If Lakeland is loaded with FBS talent, most of it did not come from their transfers over the past two years. As best I can tell, 10/13 players are not even rated.  I bet there are schools with lesser reputations than Lakeland who got more than two, 3-star or up players over the past two seasons. 

I will agree that in total, these transfers may have made a big difference, but the same could be said for a lot of schools because a lot of schools are getting a substantial numbers of unrated transfers each year.

 

Transferred in for this season:

1.)    Lloyd Summerall 4* DE  

2.)    Dywonski McWilliams QB 

3.)    Deyavie Hammond  4* OT 

4.)    Jaharie Martin LB

9.)    Willie Lampkin OG 

12.)  Tyler Sheffield OC 

 

Transferred in for last season:

5.)    Chris Howard WR 

6.)    Khalil Crawford  2* LB

7.)    Tony Ware DB 

8.)    Teshaun Nixon DB 

10.)  Tayshawn Rodman DB 

11.) Jace Hohenthaner K 

13.) Naveli Dixson OG

I understand what you are saying, but I'll submit that if you take an otherwise 'very good' Florida high school football team and add in a 2* player and a pair of 4* players, that could very well be the difference between being a regional finalist and a state champion.

Also, for what it's worth, the QB may not have any stars next to his name, but I was down on the field for one of Lakeland's playoff wins.  I saw their QB's warm up.  Their number 2 guy may be a great kid from a great family who makes great grades and who ends up with a great high school football career.  But there way no way on God's green earth that he was going to do the job that McWilliams did (especially keeping the defense honest so it couldn't load up to stop Bowman).  In short, McWilliams was an integral clog in the Dreadnaught machine. 

Last, understand that, like you, I'm not bashing Lakeland.  I'll assume for the purposes of discussion that each and every one of those transfers made the unilateral decision that Lakeland was the right fit for them, with no outside influences that might otherwise be construed as "recruiting."   Lakeland simply took advantage of the law that was drafted to put them in that position. 

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1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Some sports have/had county championships which are/were prestigious and a lot of fun to attend/participate in.  A team may not have a legitimate shot at a state title, but winning the county championship could be the next best thing. Teams across various classifications competed against each other.  

Am not proposing that for football.  Just throwing out an example I was reminded of by this League....a goal to aim for outside of a state title.   ...anything to generate excitement, I say.       

Those conference games usually are very interesting but normally better in other sports where they can actually play every team over a weekend (or at least a good portion of them)

 

 

The simple fact is setting up a tournament In football is basically impossible during regular season simply because you can only play so many games because of the overall physical toll of the sport

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6 hours ago, Perspective said:

I understand what you are saying, but I'll submit that if you take an otherwise 'very good' Florida high school football team and add in a 2* player and a pair of 4* players, that could very well be the difference between being a regional finalist and a state champion.

Also, for what it's worth, the QB may not have any stars next to his name, but I was down on the field for one of Lakeland's playoff wins.  I saw their QB's warm up.  Their number 2 guy may be a great kid from a great family who makes great grades and who ends up with a great high school football career.  But there way no way on God's green earth that he was going to do the job that McWilliams did (especially keeping the defense honest so it couldn't load up to stop Bowman).  In short, McWilliams was an integral clog in the Dreadnaught machine. 

Last, understand that, like you, I'm not bashing Lakeland.  I'll assume for the purposes of discussion that each and every one of those transfers made the unilateral decision that Lakeland was the right fit for them, with no outside influences that might otherwise be construed as "recruiting."   Lakeland simply took advantage of the law that was drafted to put them in that position. 

Agree with bolded statements above.  But just as we might say "no way Lakeland wins a state title without their transfer qb," I wonder how many state champions/contenders over the past 10 years about which might be able to say the very same thing?   Look at Mandarin this year with Beck.  I would be willing to wager there are more than a few such teams, especially considering how much movement there is amongst the better qb's in the state. 

And how many state champions over the past 10 years did not benefit from a couple of 3 or 4-star transfers along the way?  Check out the post below concerning Broward County.  Aquinas, Chaminade and Deerfield all did over the past couple of years.  Deerfield Beach and Chaminade would have been completely different teams without transfers.  

My point is that if we start dissecting, we probably could pick apart a lot of teams and say "maybe _______ never would have competed for a title without so-and-so."  I think it is a good assumption that all of the better teams in the state are benefiting from transfers, to some extent.  IMO, it's only worth calling out the outliers, and I don't consider Lakeland an outlier compared to a number of other teams.  Chaminade and Armwood did have some pretty extraordinary transfer numbers.        

 

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I think we all know who the suspicious characters are. They are the ones that year in and year out field nearly unbeatable teams. Maybe a dozen to 15 teams give or take are in that category. They all must have a full recruiting office, unbeknownst to the FHSAA, as they sure act like college teams in this respect. This cannot be accidental or just students wanting a better academic school to go to, which I believe was the major intent of the transfer bill passed by the legislature. These are transfers for the guarantee of immediately playing in starting positions on that schools team. I wonder how many home grown players were given consideration in lieu of the incoming players. How many home grown players ride the bench for most games because some hotshot swaggers into the field house and announces he's the new QB starter. Really, a terrible way to run any high school program much less football. Any head coach that is OK with running his football team this way doesn't give a damn about young students. His interest is winning at all costs at the expense of many of his players who don't seem to get to play very much.

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14 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

Agree with bolded statements above.  But just as we might say "no way Lakeland wins a state title without their transfer qb," I wonder how many state champions/contenders over the past 10 years about which might be able to say the very same thing?   Look at Mandarin this year with Beck.  I would be willing to wager there are more than a few such teams, especially considering how much movement there is amongst the better qb's in the state. 

And how many state champions over the past 10 years did not benefit from a couple of 3 or 4-star transfers along the way?  Check out the post below concerning Broward County.  Aquinas, Chaminade and Deerfield all did over the past couple of years.  Deerfield Beach and Chaminade would have been completely different teams without transfers.  

My point is that if we start dissecting, we probably could pick apart a lot of teams and say "maybe _______ never would have competed for a title without so-and-so."  I think it is a good assumption that all of the better teams in the state are benefiting from transfers, to some extent.  IMO, it's only worth calling out the outliers, and I don't consider Lakeland an outlier compared to a number of other teams.  Chaminade and Armwood did have some pretty extraordinary transfer numbers.        

 

And even with all the transfers armwood got it ended with same result basically every year lately has been

 

Roll through a overall weak region (6a north) than get put down by a Miami school in finals

 

It's interesting how talented armwood is but still struggle to win these games at state (even when the Miami team is down like Miami Northwestern was this past year)

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I think this is cool. This is how HS football was until 1963 in FL. Teams played in big conferences. They played for conference titles. Sports writers voted on the State Champion.

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15 hours ago, Proseteye said:

I think we all know who the suspicious characters are. They are the ones that year in and year out field nearly unbeatable teams. Maybe a dozen to 15 teams give or take are in that category. They all must have a full recruiting office, unbeknownst to the FHSAA, as they sure act like college teams in this respect. This cannot be accidental or just students wanting a better academic school to go to, which I believe was the major intent of the transfer bill passed by the legislature. These are transfers for the guarantee of immediately playing in starting positions on that schools team. I wonder how many home grown players were given consideration in lieu of the incoming players. How many home grown players ride the bench for most games because some hotshot swaggers into the field house and announces he's the new QB starter. Really, a terrible way to run any high school program much less football. Any head coach that is OK with running his football team this way doesn't give a damn about young students. His interest is winning at all costs at the expense of many of his players who don't seem to get to play very much.

Proset, enough is enough already....Trinity Catholic won a state title with a perfect 14-0 record in 2010. They did this with starting QB Joe Little who transferred in for his senior season from Santa Fe Catholic in Lakeland. The kid had almost 2,000 yards passing, 20+ TD's and only 5 INT's. Do you think Joe Little should have sat out the 2010 season after transferring? 

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55 minutes ago, 181pl said:

I think this is cool. This is how HS football was until 1963 in FL. Teams played in big conferences. They played for conference titles. Sports writers voted on the State Champion.

And I'm glad that will never be the case again because I've seen far too much bias in polls like the AP especially at high school level

 

 

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9 hours ago, Just A Coach said:

Proset, enough is enough already....Trinity Catholic won a state title with a perfect 14-0 record in 2010. They did this with starting QB Joe Little who transferred in for his senior season from Santa Fe Catholic in Lakeland. The kid had almost 2,000 yards passing, 20+ TD's and only 5 INT's. Do you think Joe Little should have sat out the 2010 season after transferring? 

Yes.

I do appreciate your incite and respect you as a coach. However,  The 2010 team was loaded. Maybe the best team that Marion County ever produced and obviously the best team in 3A. We had Jeremiaha Gates who was a complete athlete. If and when Little didn't play Gates took over and there was practically no difference noticed. Gates could have played QB on any other team in Florida although he was primarily an outstanding RB. Went on to be a star at Jacksonville University. WR Kadron Boone. Practically unstoppable. And I mean that literally. Star at LSU and the New York Giants. I don't believe any team was going to defeat the 2010 Celtics, regardless. That being said, Little made the job a heck of a lot easier as he was born to play QB. Once again, if a team cannot make it with homegrown talent then they should not be able to import from everywhere to manufacture a fake team where many of the players don't represent the community nor care anything about the community. Also, how many players that transfer in transfer out within a year? I would sure like to know.

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1 hour ago, Proseteye said:

Yes.

I do appreciate your incite and respect you as a coach. However,  The 2010 team was loaded. Maybe the best team that Marion County ever produced and obviously the best team in 3A. We had Jeremiaha Gates who was a complete athlete. If and when Little didn't play Gates took over and there was practically no difference noticed. Gates could have played QB on any other team in Florida although he was primarily an outstanding RB. Went on to be a star at Jacksonville University. WR Kadron Boone. Practically unstoppable. And I mean that literally. Star at LSU and the New York Giants. I don't believe any team was going to defeat the 2010 Celtics, regardless. That being said, Little made the job a heck of a lot easier as he was born to play QB. Once again, if a team cannot make it with homegrown talent then they should not be able to import from everywhere to manufacture a fake team where many of the players don't represent the community nor care anything about the community. Also, how many players that transfer in transfer out within a year? I would sure like to know.

Was Little the only transfer on that 2010 team?

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...imagine a south FL league with these teams all playing each other during the regular season.  Not fair to play across classes?  Are some of the same-class blowouts we are seeing today any more fair?

St Thomas Aquinas

Cardinal Gibbons

Chaminade-Madonna

American Heritage Plantation

University School

Monsignor Pace

Columbus

Belen Jesuit

Gulliver Prep

Champagnat 

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17 hours ago, Proseteye said:

Yes.

I do appreciate your incite and respect you as a coach. However,  The 2010 team was loaded. Maybe the best team that Marion County ever produced and obviously the best team in 3A. We had Jeremiaha Gates who was a complete athlete. If and when Little didn't play Gates took over and there was practically no difference noticed. Gates could have played QB on any other team in Florida although he was primarily an outstanding RB. Went on to be a star at Jacksonville University. WR Kadron Boone. Practically unstoppable. And I mean that literally. Star at LSU and the New York Giants. I don't believe any team was going to defeat the 2010 Celtics, regardless. That being said, Little made the job a heck of a lot easier as he was born to play QB. Once again, if a team cannot make it with homegrown talent then they should not be able to import from everywhere to manufacture a fake team where many of the players don't represent the community nor care anything about the community. Also, how many players that transfer in transfer out within a year? I would sure like to know.

Proset, I dont think you got my point. I was responding to your recent posts about how you disagree that some schools receive transfers for athletic reasons. The article that I have placed below explains that Trinity Catholic benefited from his transfer. I feel that your arguments against other schools aren't justified. I also feel this proverbial idiom explains it best, "The pot calling the kettle black".

https://www.ocala.com/article/LK/20101210/News/604198918/OS/

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16 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

...imagine a south FL league with these teams all playing each other during the regular season.  Not fair to play across classes?  Are some of the same-class blowouts we are seeing today any more fair?

St Thomas Aquinas

Cardinal Gibbons

Chaminade-Madonna

American Heritage Plantation

University School

Monsignor Pace

Columbus

Belen Jesuit

Gulliver Prep

Champagnat 

That’s exactly how it should be. 

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1 hour ago, Just A Coach said:

Proset, I dont think you got my point. I was responding to your recent posts about how you disagree that some schools receive transfers for athletic reasons. The article that I have placed below explains that Trinity Catholic benefited from his transfer. I feel that your arguments against other schools aren't justified. I also feel this proverbial idiom explains it best, "The pot calling the kettle black".

https://www.ocala.com/article/LK/20101210/News/604198918/OS/

Well, I never advocated for transfers and I think that I stated that is how I always felt. Since I could do nothing about the players that the team got from transferring, I just went with the flow. What was I to do, abandon the team and not attend their games? There is a point here. Private schools have to get new Freshman classes every year in order to pay the bills and keep their doors open. They also have to replace students that drop out for one reason or another. These students have to come from somewhere outside of the school. If I told you that more football players transfer out of Trinity to the public schools than transfer in you wouldn't believe me. But, it's true. Many parents find out that they can't continue the tuition for their sons and so their sons have to transfer to a public school where tuition is free. Also, some students just don't fit in with a private school curriculum. I am certainly not "the pot calling the kettle black" as I am calling for restricting all transfers for sports reasons.

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I’m actually in huge support of this league. Great way for these schools/communities to achieve something, even if it’s not a state title. 

That being said, this isn’t how I would go about doing things.

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On 3/15/2019 at 11:47 AM, Perspective said:

I understand what you are saying, but I'll submit that if you take an otherwise 'very good' Florida high school football team and add in a 2* player and a pair of 4* players, that could very well be the difference between being a regional finalist and a state champion.

Also, for what it's worth, the QB may not have any stars next to his name, but I was down on the field for one of Lakeland's playoff wins.  I saw their QB's warm up.  Their number 2 guy may be a great kid from a great family who makes great grades and who ends up with a great high school football career.  But there way no way on God's green earth that he was going to do the job that McWilliams did (especially keeping the defense honest so it couldn't load up to stop Bowman).  In short, McWilliams was an integral clog in the Dreadnaught machine. 

Last, understand that, like you, I'm not bashing Lakeland.  I'll assume for the purposes of discussion that each and every one of those transfers made the unilateral decision that Lakeland was the right fit for them, with no outside influences that might otherwise be construed as "recruiting."   Lakeland simply took advantage of the law that was drafted to put them in that position. 

Was it true that the QB was charged of allegations the week before the State Championship game? He withdrew from Lakeland days after the State Championship game?

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