Coaches on transfers in PBC

[561_Fan]

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/20190726/hs-football-local-head-coaches-concerned-about-transfers-state-regulations

[FL_HS_football]

Its obvious just like with the new NCAA transfer portal, this very liberal transfer policy that is in place now has turned into a colossal failure and undermines everything that was local high school sports! Little league baseball even has restrictions on how far away from his certified address can play to prevent the whole concept of stacked teams. This needs to be revisited and some restrictions put in place, to at least make a student think long and hard before transferring.

[Hwy17]

I'd be in favor of capping the # of transfers a program can have based on classification. 

[OldSchoolLion]

No doubt transferring is disruptive.  But without some hard data, I think it is difficult to say exactly how much it is making a difference in who hoists the trophy at the end of the year and how many wins a team has.  We are making judgments without such data.  

Below was an effort to put some things in perspective via some actual numbers.

 

[OldSchoolLion]

Pennsylvania's "solution"...accepting transfers can force move up in classification 

Beginning in 2020/2021 in football and boys/girls basketball:

Success Factor scale
• Participation in a district final = 1 point
• Participation in a PIAA quarterfinal = 2 points
• Participation in a PIAA semifinal = 3 points
• Participation in a PIAA final = 4 points

Schools receive the points based on their highest finish in the previous two-year cycle. Should a school accumulate 6 points or greater and accept athletic transfers, according to a fixed ratio (below), the school would move up 1 class in that sport for the following cycle.

Athletic Transfers

Under the proposed by-law change, all sport specific transfers after the natural break – 8^th grade to 9^th grade – could be subject to a post-season ban for one year. The decision would come from a district or regional committee that has yet to be defined.

In addition, if a school receives 6 points or greater in the previous two-year cycle, and accepts transfer students by sport and gender that are equal to or exceeds one less than half of the starting line-up, the school will be required to move up 1 classification.

That would equal two transfers in basketball (5 starters) or five transfers in football (11 starters).

Schools that receive points, but not transfers, would remain in its same enrollment classification

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

If they put it where as if you transfer you couldn’t play till the following year I bet you see it drop considerably. 

[OldSchoolLion]

18 minutes ago, THIS_IS_DILLARD said:

If they put it where as if you transfer you couldn’t play till the following year I bet you see it drop considerably. 

I agree and some states are doing/considering it.  The argument against this approach is that it unduly "punishes" kids moving for the "right" reasons.

[Proseteye]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I agree and some states are doing/considering it.  The argument against this approach is that it unduly "punishes" kids moving for the "right" reasons.

IMHO, the right reason would be academic. I think that this was the reasoning used for the Florida Legislature to pass the bill that allows open transfer from any school to any other school. To get students out of academically non performing schools and into performing schools. ie, transfers from public to private, public to charter, or in some cases non performing public to performing public. I honestly don't believe that the legislators even considered sports in this legislation. Believe they should have consulted with the FHSAA to find some way to mitigate the unlimited transferring that is going on. I don't believe it's healthy for young people to be acting like NFL free agents in high school. Believe it destroys the cohesion necessary to build viable sports teams consisting of young people. This is not to say what damage it is doing academically for students to be attending multiple schools only for the purpose of playing sports.

[OldSchoolLion]

We are living in a "gig economy" filled with free agency.  The days of working for years at a time for one company are gone.  More so than ever, one must be able to market themselves in order to land employment and/or advance.  And one must be flexible enough as an adult to adjust to a new "team" as one switches jobs. 

Looking through a kids' eyes, I can see some thinking that what is taking place in hs sports mirrors what is taking place in the adult world and, in that sense, is not that extraordinary.  When adults are job hopping, it makes it difficult to preach to the kids about the importance of staying in one place.  Maybe the kids are learning some skills that will help them survive in the future. 

Is there more harm than good?  Guess time will tell. 

 

           

[THIS_IS_DILLARD]

18 minutes ago, OldSchoolLion said:

We are living in a "gig economy" filled with free agency.  The days of working for years at a time for one company are gone.  More so than ever, one must be able to market themselves in order to land employment and/or advance.  And one must be flexible enough as an adult to adjust to a new "team" as one switches jobs. 

Looking through a kids' eyes, I can see some thinking that what is taking place in hs sports mirrors what is taking place in the adult world and, in that sense, is not that extraordinary.  When adults are job hopping, it makes it difficult to preach to the kids about the importance of staying in one place.  Maybe the kids are learning some skills that will help them survive in the future. 

Is there more harm than good?  Guess time will tell. 

 

           

That question has already been answered it’s for the bad you have kids now going to twitter making a full post of where their taking their talents lol & signing the post. That’s pure foolishness for a high school player going from one highschool to the next. 

 

And as far as academic transfers & etc that’s a easy fix have it where if you do transfer you can’t academically play until the following school term. Those whose transferring for academic reasons won’t have a problem with that. Those whose trying to beat the system will. 

[DarterBlue2]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolLion said:

I agree and some states are doing/considering it.  The argument against this approach is that it unduly "punishes" kids moving for the "right" reasons.

You could have reasonable exceptions such as divorce (or a verified new guardian) or death in the family or a verifiable situation where the family moves for employment reasons. You would just need to shift the burden of proof to the kids seeking the transfer. No, that would not eliminate all transfers for athletic reasons, but it would probably reduce them greatly. 

[Coach]

This transfer thing is absolutely absurd. The biggest reason is that I feel it destroys what a team is supposed to be. I work and coach at a school that is great academically and okay athletically. We’re usually ok in football but good in other sports like weightlifting and track. We’ve had kids leave in the summer to play football at other schools then transfer back after the season to lift with our coach or run on the track team. I don’t know how that can happen or any reason why it should happen. 

 

I understand that some people do transfer for the “right” reasons. People move, parents get jobs, etc. But this is crazy to me. One of the worst parts is that the mentality created by things like we’re seeing is that you can just hop around between places and kids are going to learn the hard way that the real world doesn’t work like that.

[Jags904]

Unless there is a verified move (ie selling of home in one area & buying in another, ending a lease & getting another, etc), then it should be a 1 year sit. 

Its fine and dandy that adults can transfer jobs left and right but you know what I’ve found out about most of those people? They don’t make the same money they would if they stayed in the same place. I was hired with 4 other guys, 3 of whom left to get new jobs and not one of them makes as much as I do or the guy who stayed. The years you put in is typically reflected on your paycheck unless you’re an executive (where it actually pays to change jobs). Not saying you should stay in a bad situation but the grass usually isn’t greener. 

[OldSchoolLion]

Some think it is their child's "right" to advance themselves via the public education system, whether it be through academics or other activities. such as athletics or band...and in restricting them, one is impinging upon their rights.  Others disagree.  To me, that is the crux of the debate...what role is public education supposed to play in a child's future?  Maybe the crazy transferring we see today is just a sign of the desperation some parents/kids feel to get ahead.  Can we blame them?

At the end of the day, the taxpayer is paying for all of this.  I am happy to support kids advancing themselves through athletics, even at the "expense" of this transferring mess.  I don't know how good the "return" is on the investment we are making, though.  We hear about all of these kids getting scholarships and it sounds great.  We hear about the success stories.  But how often do we hear of the tragedies? 

How many of them wash out in college and end up no better off than if they had not gone?  ...or maybe their focus on athletics took away from their academic studies and that gamble left them worse off when their NFL dreams faded.  How many of us follow these kids after high school to see how well they are really doing in life?  

No matter what you think, there are two sides to this debate.  The kids' behavior today is a reflection of what they see in us adults, including our insecurities.  

 

 

[Perspective]

20 hours ago, Proseteye said:

IMHO, the right reason would be academic. I think that this was the reasoning used for the Florida Legislature to pass the bill that allows open transfer from any school to any other school. To get students out of academically non performing schools and into performing schools. ie, transfers from public to private, public to charter, or in some cases non performing public to performing public. I honestly don't believe that the legislators even considered sports in this legislation. Believe they should have consulted with the FHSAA to find some way to mitigate the unlimited transferring that is going on. I don't believe it's healthy for young people to be acting like NFL free agents in high school. Believe it destroys the cohesion necessary to build viable sports teams consisting of young people. This is not to say what damage it is doing academically for students to be attending multiple schools only for the purpose of playing sports.

I honestly believe that you're looking at this through rose-colored glasses.   Here's a quick summary of what took place. 

The bill that ultimately passed the legislature was sponsored by Kelli Stargel, a State Senator from Lakeland (who currently sits on the FHSAA Public Liaison Advisory Committee).  The legislation was introduced a year or two after the FHSAA ruled ineligible five football players who transferred to Lakeland.   Those sponsoring the legislation dressed it all up in academic clothing ('let the math prodigy go to whatever school is best for him; let the clarinet player choose whatever school she thinks is best for her'), but don't let this fool you.   This was all about athletics.   The folks in Polk County had an ax to grind and Stargell became their lumberjack.  This was a power play, clear and simple, to take away some of the control that the FHSAA had, especially with regard to transfers.  And, for obvious reasons, the folks in Lakeland have been happy with the results. 

If you would prefer a lengthier, perhaps more objective, discussion of the issue, click on this link:

https://news.wfsu.org/post/florida-high-school-athletic-association-cries-foul-over-bills-limiting-its-power

Bottom line, think what you will about the FHSAA, but on the issue of transfers, their hands got tied by the state legislature a few years ago.  Note the foreshadowing quote from the 2013 article about why the FHSAA opposed the legislation:  the FHSAA claimed the new law could "pave the way for unfairness on the field and reduced quality of tournaments."   Roger Dearing and the folks at the FHSAA knew what would happen if they didn't have the ability to police transfers . . . and this is exactly what we're now seeing. 

[gatorman-uf]

22 hours ago, Proseteye said:

IMHO, the right reason would be academic. I think that this was the reasoning used for the Florida Legislature to pass the bill that allows open transfer from any school to any other school. To get students out of academically non performing schools and into performing schools. ie, transfers from public to private, public to charter, or in some cases non performing public to performing public. I honestly don't believe that the legislators even considered sports in this legislation. Believe they should have consulted with the FHSAA to find some way to mitigate the unlimited transferring that is going on. I don't believe it's healthy for young people to be acting like NFL free agents in high school. Believe it destroys the cohesion necessary to build viable sports teams consisting of young people. This is not to say what damage it is doing academically for students to be attending multiple schools only for the purpose of playing sports.

The FHSAA literally told them this would happen, the Republican led Legislature led by a couple of pissed off Lakeland politicians did this. Calling BS that the state legislature only wanted it for academic reasons, they talked about the fact that we don't stop a kid from moving/participating if they are in band or art so why sports. This Florida Republican led state legislature does not care about public schools. 

[Proseteye]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

I honestly believe that you're looking at this through rose-colored glasses.   Here's a quick summary of what took place. 

The bill that ultimately passed the legislature was sponsored by Kelli Stargel, a State Senator from Lakeland (who currently sits on the FHSAA Public Liaison Advisory Committee).  The legislation was introduced a year or two after the FHSAA ruled ineligible five football players who transferred to Lakeland.   Those sponsoring the legislation dressed it all up in academic clothing ('let the math prodigy go to whatever school is best for him; let the clarinet player choose whatever school she thinks is best for her'), but don't let this fool you.   This was all about athletics.   The folks in Polk County had an ax to grind and Stargell became their lumberjack.  This was a power play, clear and simple, to take away some of the control that the FHSAA had, especially with regard to transfers.  And, for obvious reasons, the folks in Lakeland have been happy with the results. 

If you would prefer a lengthier, perhaps more objective, discussion of the issue, click on this link:

https://news.wfsu.org/post/florida-high-school-athletic-association-cries-foul-over-bills-limiting-its-power

Bottom line, think what you will about the FHSAA, but on the issue of transfers, their hands got tied by the state legislature a few years ago.  Note the foreshadowing quote from the 2013 article about why the FHSAA opposed the legislation:  the FHSAA claimed the new law could "pave the way for unfairness on the field and reduced quality of tournaments."   Roger Dearing and the folks at the FHSAA knew what would happen if they didn't have the ability to police transfers . . . and this is exactly what we're now seeing. 

If that is truly the case then it's a very sad situation indeed. IMO we now have free agency type football in Florida high schools. Might as well allow the coaches to also openly recruit which they are probably doing secretly anyway. Is this really what teams, made up of 14 through 17 year olds, is supposed to be what its all about? What lessons are they learning from all of this? And, how can coaches feel good about themselves when they bring in transfers from other areas to replace the players that have been with the team for 2 or 3 years.

[Hwy17]

The powers that be seem to like having only a handful of dominant teams. I bet if some also run public school was to load up on transfers and win a championship we would hear foul being cried from Tallahassee to Miami.