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Maryland/DC Schools Dominate Florida This Decade


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14 hours ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Is it really any different than what metro schools in Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale and Miami been doing for decades?

 

Many metros have always had loose transfer movement even before the recent rule changes, all this did is limit the restrictions for public schools in more isolated areas and made it where metros weren't able to get around rules while isolated rural schools were lucky to get any transfers approved 

Here in Orlando, it has become prevalent in the past couple of years. Before that, most talent was "home grown" and kids played for their local high school. We only have a couple of schools in Central Florida that have gone all in on recruiting and it has upset the balance of competition. Jones (5A) and Edgewater (7A) are loaded with transfers. They've pulled a bunch of kids from 8A schools and are beating up on the other 7A and 5A schools in the area.  Lakeland is doing the same in Polk County and Cocoa on the coast.

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Just now, HornetFan said:

Here in Orlando, it has become prevalent in the past couple of years. Before that, most talent was "home grown" and kids played for their local high school. We only have a couple of schools in Central Florida that have gone all in on recruiting and it has upset the balance of competition. Jones (5A) and Edgewater (7A) are loaded with transfers. They've pulled a bunch of kids from 8A schools and are beating up on the other 7A and 5A schools in the area.  Lakeland is doing the same in Polk County and Cocoa on the coast.

But was there anything really stopping them from switching schools if they wanted to?

 

I know up here in my area that the Jacksonville schools have had teams load up under the radar (mainly because the Duval media covers it up) but they never saw any significant restrictions and could move schools and get immediately eligible

 

And that was long before the "open border" rule changes

 

This was happening going back a while 

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1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But was there anything really stopping them from switching schools if they wanted to?

 

I know up here in my area that the Jacksonville schools have had teams load up under the radar (mainly because the Duval media covers it up) but they never saw any significant restrictions and could move schools and get immediately eligible

 

And that was long before the "open border" rule changes

 

This was happening going back a while 

In Orlando yes.  A kid had to move into the schools zone to be eligible.  Now a kid has school choice but a school can't be at capacity. Guess what two schools aren't at capacity?  Yup Edgewater and Jones.  

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4 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

Here in Orlando, it has become prevalent in the past couple of years. Before that, most talent was "home grown" and kids played for their local high school. We only have a couple of schools in Central Florida that have gone all in on recruiting and it has upset the balance of competition. Jones (5A) and Edgewater (7A) are loaded with transfers. They've pulled a bunch of kids from 8A schools and are beating up on the other 7A and 5A schools in the area.  Lakeland is doing the same in Polk County and Cocoa on the coast.

I have no issue with what Lakeland or Cocoa have done since it's no different than what goes on in Jacksonville or Miami and have been for years and many those teams are praised for "building their program from ground up" when they are loaded in transfers especially up here in Duval County

 

So why is it "derogatory" when Cocoa or Lakeland do it?

 

That's what I'm curious about, maybe you can help me understand it better

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1 minute ago, badbird said:

In Orlando yes.  A kid had to move into the schools zone to be eligible.  Now a kid has school choice but a school can't be at capacity. Guess what two schools aren't at capacity?  Yup Edgewater and Jones.  

If only that applied up here because in Jacksonville you had kids just listing their addresses with a "distant cousin" or "family friend" and could switch schools without a question being asked and nobody who plays the school would even know a program got 10+ transfers until they lined up to play them

 

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3 minutes ago, badbird said:

In Orlando yes.  A kid had to move into the schools zone to be eligible.  Now a kid has school choice but a school can't be at capacity. Guess what two schools aren't at capacity?  Yup Edgewater and Jones.  

What deems a school as being at capacity? I've seen schools like Apopka and looks like a small college and could probably hold 4k people

 

Does the district determine the capacity of each school or does the state do it?

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1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

But was there anything really stopping them from switching schools if they wanted to?

 

I know up here in my area that the Jacksonville schools have had teams load up under the radar (mainly because the Duval media covers it up) but they never saw any significant restrictions and could move schools and get immediately eligible

 

And that was long before the "open border" rule changes

 

This was happening going back a while 

The things that restricted transfers here in Central Florida was the student had to stay in the county in which they lived and they couldn't transfer to a school that was considered "full" unless it had a magnet program in which they were enrolled. Winter Park, for instance, is the only "A" rated HS in Orange County and is considered full, so transfers in to that school were very difficult and were closely monitored. Last year, a transfer in from Timber Creek had to sit out about four games before they ruled on his transfer. Parents still try using phony residences to get around the policy because if you live in that school district, you have to be admitted.

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7 minutes ago, badbird said:

In Orlando yes.  A kid had to move into the schools zone to be eligible.  Now a kid has school choice but a school can't be at capacity. Guess what two schools aren't at capacity?  Yup Edgewater and Jones.  

Exactly, and they are putting out overtures to players all the time.

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8 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

I have no issue with what Lakeland or Cocoa have done since it's no different than what goes on in Jacksonville or Miami and have been for years and many those teams are praised for "building their program from ground up" when they are loaded in transfers especially up here in Duval County

 

So why is it "derogatory" when Cocoa or Lakeland do it?

 

That's what I'm curious about, maybe you can help me understand it better

I'll try. Suppose you are a fan, possibly an alumni, of a school that is in the same county as Lakeland or Cocoa and you have to play them each year. You have kids come up through the youth football leagues in your town and expect them to go to the local high school. Cocoa or Lakeland come raiding your programs and recruiting your best players. Your team become non-competitive, fan support disappears, and soon you may have trouble even fielding a team. Several schools in our Central Florida no longer have full programs (Freshmen, JV, and varsity), others have depleted varsity rosters. Then, you have the added chance that teams with smaller rosters are risking injury to their kids because the kids have to play more, growing tired, adding to their injury chances, especially when they have to play the teams that have loaded up on recruits. Simply stated, the competitive balance has been destroyed.

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2 minutes ago, badbird said:

Kids can still use false addresses but if caught teams will have to forfeit.  Capacity is determined by the number of students that can fit into each classroom.   County determines it

Normally the FHSAA only investigates if someone blows the whistle though right?

 

So if everyone is silent there won't be any investigation and it stays unnoticed

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2 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

I'll try. Suppose you are a fan, possibly an alumni, of a school that is in the same county as Lakeland or Cocoa and you have to play them each year. You have kids come up through the youth football leagues in your town and expect them to go to the local high school. Cocoa or Lakeland come raiding your programs and recruiting your best players. Your team become non-competitive, fan support disappears, and soon you may have trouble even fielding a team. Several schools in our Central Florida no longer have full programs (Freshmen, JV, and varsity), others have depleted varsity rosters. Then, you have the added chance that teams with smaller rosters are risking injury to their kids because the kids have to play more, growing tired, adding to their injury chances, especially when they have to play the teams that have loaded up on recruits. Simply stated, the competitive balance has been destroyed.

Ok I can understand that

 

Only one question though

 

 

Why is it that Lakeland and Cocoa take so much heat for their transfers yet there are schools in places like Miami and Jacksonville (even successful ones) that were getting transfers (legal or otherwise) even before the rule changes but they never seem to receive the same level of heat from people statewide that those 2 schools take?

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2 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Normally the FHSAA only investigates if someone blows the whistle though right?

 

So if everyone is silent there won't be any investigation and it stays unnoticed

That's true, and most of the time, the whistle blower is another coach. It doesn't go unnoticed though; the kids on the team know the coaches are cheating. What does that say for the integrity of the people coaching our kids?

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I can understand why people would be upset to see their players raided by Cocoa or Lakeland after kids come up through a system and are expected to go to say Bayshore or Lake Gibson 

 

But if the same thing is happening in Jacksonville or Miami why do none those schools take same flack for that happening?

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1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Ok I can understand that

 

Only one question though

 

 

Why is it that Lakeland and Cocoa take so much heat for their transfers yet there are schools in places like Miami and Jacksonville (even successful ones) that were getting transfers (legal or otherwise) even before the rule changes but they never seem to receive the same level of heat from people statewide that those 2 schools take?

I would say Jacksonville hasn’t really had a public school do anything.  First Coast was getting tons of transfers but never broke through now it’s Lee and they didn’t break through.  Lakeland and Cocoa have multiple championships.   Mandarin caught some heat last year.  Let Mandarin become a dynasty and see what happens.

as far as Miami goes they are their own world.  They do what they want.  

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1 minute ago, HornetFan said:

That's true, and most of the time, the whistle blower is another coach. It doesn't go unnoticed though; the kids on the team know the coaches are cheating. What does that say for the integrity of the people coaching our kids?

Well I meant unnoticed by fhsaa but I get that

 

But yeah that's what tends to happen, normally the coaches all know about it but some will eventually get tired of losing to a transfer loaded team and blow whistle on them

 

It's just weird that if they know from start why wait until after the team beats you to blow the whistle

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1 minute ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

Ok I can understand that

 

Only one question though

 

 

Why is it that Lakeland and Cocoa take so much heat for their transfers yet there are schools in places like Miami and Jacksonville (even successful ones) that were getting transfers (legal or otherwise) even before the rule changes but they never seem to receive the same level of heat from people statewide that those 2 schools take?

That's simple. Anyone interested in Florida HS football knows that South Florida schools have been cheating for decades. I know that every time I hear someone brag on South Florida high school football, my filter goes on and I just figure that's the South Florida school that happens to be the best cheater at the time. 

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Just now, badbird said:

I would say Jacksonville hasn’t really had a public school do anything.  First Coast was getting tons of transfers but never broke through now it’s Lee and they didn’t break through.  Lakeland and Cocoa have multiple championships.   Mandarin caught some heat last year.  Let Mandarin become a dynasty and see what happens.

as far as Miami goes they are their own world.  They do what they want.  

Lee is one of schools that did load up on transfers overnight, Ed White coach was out after 2014 season and then several players ended up transferring over to Lee before the 2015 season, they also picked up a few transfers from local schools but yet they aren't considered a team who was "built overnight" even though they basically were

 

I do think success is part of it, had they started winning titles more attention would be on them but since they basically just took Ed White place of being a average 2nd round team they weren't considered enough a threat for someone to go blow whistle on them i guess 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, HornetFan said:

That's simple. Anyone interested in Florida HS football knows that South Florida schools have been cheating for decades. I know that every time I hear someone brag on South Florida high school football, my filter goes on and I just figure that's the South Florida school that happens to be the best cheater at the time. 

I guess similar thing can be said for Jacksonville?

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38 minutes ago, badbird said:

Here is a situation that recently occurred.  I won’t use team names.  A team got 5 transfers from one school.  They all used the same kids address.  They were turned in to the fhsaa.  The superintendent of the county allowed the kids to go to that school.  That’s how it happens.  

I'm guessing the 5 kids weren't quintuplets.  B)

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It's always been interesting to me that coaches have known that other schools are out there recruiting, but haven't turned them in.  I've spoken with some of them about it.   Best I can figure, there's some sort of "honor among thieves" mentality.   That, and no one wants to be called out as a snitch.  Better to take your chances on the field than to be the guy who gets another coach fired for breaking the rules. 

In some areas, South Florida for example, I believe there's a cultural element.  "Yeah, we all know it's illegal, but I know you're doing it and you know we're doing it, so let's just figure out who can do it better and we'll all keep our mouths shut."  People who live in glass houses shouldn't (and in many cases don't) throw stones.   

Columbia, I think the biggest difference between Lakeland and Cocoa, on the one hand, and Jacksonville and South Florida, on the other hand, can be found in the way you have framed the question -- individual schools versus entire metro areas.   Polk County is a pretty big country, but probably not as populated as Duval, Dade or Broward.   But there are several high schools in Polk.   Only one has a statewide reputation for success on a regular basis.  And perhaps not coincidentally, only one has a statewide reputation for achieving this success on the backs of transfers - at least lately.   Don't forget how this whole transfer mess got started . . . Lakeland legislators were upset that the FHSAA declared ineligible a handful of kids who transferred into Lakeland. 

A similar argument can be made about Brevard County and Cocoa.  Unlike Brevard and Polk, there has not been a dominant public school team in Duval or the two South Florida counties over the last decade or so.  The balance of power shifts. Yeah, a couple of schools tend to stay up at the top year after year, but they don't flat out dominate the other schools in the county like Lakeland and Cocoa do. 

Finally, as in all walks of life, some schools and some counties have more integrity than others.  I know of one high school administrator in the Tampa area who is still doing unannounced home visits to make sure athletes are actually living where they claim they are living and that where they claim they are living is in the district.   I don't know if they're doing the same thing for kids in the band, but I doubt it.  Other schools would rather turn a blind eye. 

And the capacity issue is a definite problem.  How can quality schools at capacity like Winter Park be expected to keep up with the Joneses (or the Edgewaters) when they're at capacity and, therefore, can't accept a 5-star recruit who wants to play for Winter Park, but who doesn't live in the district?  While this problem may only affect a small number of schools statewide, it has the potential to kill programs that historically have been very good (i.e., a school/team like Plant). 

Last point I'll make on this subject:  at least now, there's nothing wrong with a kid transferring from one school to another.  Let me rephrase that:  there's nothing illegal about it.  I see both sides of the moral aspect.  That having been said, while transferring is legal, recruiting still is not.   "Overtures," as someone wrote up above, likely means a text message from an assistant coach to a player or family member of a player attending another school trying to gauge that kid's interest in "playing for ring."  That's recruiting and that's illegal.  But in the unlikely event it ever gets revealed (see the "honor among thieves" discussion above), it results in a slap on the wrist and a fine that a large south Florida private school, for example, can simply factor into their athletic budget as a rounding error. 

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On 9/1/2019 at 11:57 AM, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/Recruits/?&PlayerSport.PlayerInstitution.Institution.Key=23884

 

To compare IMG has 10 players with 3* or better

 

So in other words on paper IMG is a underdog and SFA will be at home 

 

 

So just imagine how good SFA may very well be

How many does STA have just curious?

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