Miramar head coach suspended for remainder of season.

[Jambun82]

19 hours ago, Jags904 said:

If anyone here thinks a coach should be ejected for walking up to a ref, then they are on drugs. This is the FHSAA kissing the refs associations ass to make them feel better for being paid like crap. That was a pathetic ejection and he should’ve been given the opportunity to properly earn it. 

I’d like to sit down with the Miramar coach and have him point out the personal fouls for me. I hope that film was sent to the FHSAA & nothing was done about it. Typical. 

IT IS AGAINST THE NFHS RULES FOR A COACH TO WALK OUT ONTO THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD OF PLAY UNLESS IT IS FOR AN AUTHORIZED CONFERENCE TO TALK TO HIS PLAYERS!

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, badbird said:

Didn’t wear a visor but I’m sure I did plenty of things that could have got me ejected.  Luckily i had officials that didn’t over react 

Is there any chance that you would provide some examples of some of your actions as a head coach?

[badbird]

7 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Is there any chance that you would provide some examples of some of your actions as a head coach?

End of game losing by 2 trying to get the ball back.  Out of timeouts under 2 minutes left.  The other team takes a delay of game and the official ran the game clock basically preventing us from getting the ball back.  The officials exact words to me were, "I can do what ever I want to do."   Let's just say he heard my opinion on the situation. I didn't have to be held back like this coach but I'm sure I said enough to get ejected.

[Jambun82]

Thank you badbird. If that officials started the clock on the ready-for-play instead of the snap after a delay of game, that is clearly wrong and you would have been justified sending in the game film to the Supervisor of that Officials Association, as well as perhaps the FHSAA. Was it the referee that said the he can do whatever he wanted, or the wing official on your sideline? Thankfully, there is rule now that the offended team can choose to have the clock started on the snap after a foul in the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters.  Also, I am sorry that I called you that name, I won't do that again.

[badbird]

31 minutes ago, Jambun82 said:

Thank you badbird. If that officials started the clock on the ready-for-play instead of the snap after a delay of game, that is clearly wrong and you would have been justified sending in the game film to the Supervisor of that Officials Association, as well as perhaps the FHSAA. Was it the referee that said the he can do whatever he wanted, or the wing official on your sideline? Thankfully, there is rule now that the offended team can choose to have the clock started on the snap after a foul in the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters.  Also, I am sorry that I called you that name, I won't do that again.

White hat (referee).  no worries on the name calling except now columbiafan will use birdbrain instead of badbirdy.  Thanks a lot   As I re-read your first post it seems you were more questioning.  Hard to take what someones intents are when they write it instead of say it.  Seemed like you were taking the officials side without seeing the video or knowing the facts also.  I do believe both sides could have probably handled it better and I don't feel a 3 month suspension is appropriate.  

 

I was at a pop warner game today where a head coach wanted to pull his kids off the field because he felt the ref made a bad call.  The team was losing big and the coach was venting and trying to blame the officials for the beat down he was taking.  I went to the commisioner and told him what was going on and he went off on the head coach.  Why are we quitting?  Teach these kids a lesson not to quit and to overcome adversity because when they become older they are going to just quit.   As a head coach I never allowed my kids to complain about calls or use it as an excuse.  However I would advocate for my kids.  

[Guest]

I am glad Bad Bird and Jambun worked out their differences

[badbird]

28 minutes ago, Just A Coach said:

I am glad Bad Bird and Jambun worked out their differences

I think I’m more shocked you figured out how to post a picture.  Couldn’t have done that from the flip phone

[gatorman-uf]

2 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

IT IS AGAINST THE NFHS RULES FOR A COACH TO WALK OUT ONTO THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD OF PLAY UNLESS IT IS FOR AN AUTHORIZED CONFERENCE TO TALK TO HIS PLAYERS!

Jambun, 

In the Sun-sentinel video, he seems to call time out at the beginning as indicted by the sideline judge. His team was on the field, so even if he was directing comments towards official at that moment doesnt it mean he can be on field and thus not penalized. . 

[Jags904]

7 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Jambun, 

In the Sun-sentinel video, he seems to call time out at the beginning as indicted by the sideline judge. His team was on the field, so even if he was directing comments towards official at that moment doesnt it mean he can be on field and thus not penalized. . 

Exactly 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, badbird said:

I think I’m more shocked you figured out how to post a picture.  Couldn’t have done that from the flip phone

Took me a while...Luckily the school gave me a laptop and I Youtubed how to post a picture. Damn it was tough

[DisabledAccount]

10 hours ago, badbird said:

White hat (referee).  no worries on the name calling except now columbiafan will use birdbrain instead of badbirdy.  Thanks a lot   As I re-read your first post it seems you were more questioning.  Hard to take what someones intents are when they write it instead of say it.  Seemed like you were taking the officials side without seeing the video or knowing the facts also.  I do believe both sides could have probably handled it better and I don't feel a 3 month suspension is appropriate.  

 

I was at a pop warner game today where a head coach wanted to pull his kids off the field because he felt the ref made a bad call.  The team was losing big and the coach was venting and trying to blame the officials for the beat down he was taking.  I went to the commisioner and told him what was going on and he went off on the head coach.  Why are we quitting?  Teach these kids a lesson not to quit and to overcome adversity because when they become older they are going to just quit.   As a head coach I never allowed my kids to complain about calls or use it as an excuse.  However I would advocate for my kids.  

Nah I still think badbirdy the better nickname lol

[Perspective]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:57 PM, Jambun82 said:

Hypocrite huh? I will tell you what Birdbrain,, I have now seen the video, and I stand by what I said. The head coach NEVER is allowed to walk on the field like that, and say anything to the officials. The proper procedure is for the head coach to call timeout, and then have the referee walk to the sideline with another official. Obviously, the head coach did not give the officials that opportunity. Therefore he was ejected and then suspended by the FHSAA. I applaud the FHSAA' s decision, and I think that is unbelievable that this coach still doesn't realize that he was wrong.  

I have not seen the video.  But, I have seen a number of coaches call timeout and walk out onto the field to talk to the white hat.  Candidly, I think the white hats actually prefer this, as it gets the conversation away from the bench of the coach's team and it gets the conversation away from the fans.   And it allows the conversation to take place on more of a one-on-one basis.   Now, if the white hat had previously said something to the coach about coming out onto the field (even after calling a time out) or if the white hat put his hand up and gave the coach the proverbial "stop sign," and the coach continued walking out on to the field (especially if the coach is yelling as he's walking out and/or walking out in an aggressive manner), that would be different. 

Again, I haven't seen the video. But if the coach simply came out onto the field to discuss something (player safety, uncalled penalty, etc.) I might be able to accept an ejection, but I'm having a hard time accepting this would be worth a suspension for the rest of the year (unless the coach has a history and was on double-secret probation). 

[Perspective]

17 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

That is almost exactly what I said. How could the officials have done to handle it better? The Head Coach was ejected after no doubt collecting two UNC fouls. Also, we don't know what was said to the officials by the Head Coach. Then this Head Coach clearly does not understand what he did wrong. Also, unless the Head Coach has a law degree, he is NOT the player's attorney. He is the players coach. he needs to worry about coaching his team, and not what the officials are doing.  

I'll avoid the sarcasm and simply suggest that this is an analogy.  Attorneys are typically the mouthpieces for their clients.  In other words, attorneys speak for their clients, whether it be in court or outside of court.   I think what the coach was saying, is that it is his job to speak for his players.   No coach worth his salt wants his players bitching at the refs.  Over the years, most of the coaches I've played for or seen on the sidelines tell their players not to say anything to the refs, but instead come to them if there is a problem and they (the coach) will speak to the refs. 

And, with all due respect, one of the head coach's duties and responsibilities is to monitor what the officials are doing.  Officials are humans they do make mistakes sometimes (some of which can be fixed on the spot; some of which cannot).   Are you suggesting that if the ref incorrectly signals it to be "3rd down" (perhaps because he forgot that the penalty on the offense was declined instead of accepted), the coach shouldn't worry about it?  If it were me on the sideline, I'd be yelling my butt off so that the mistake could immediately be corrected.  Isn't that what a good official would want -- to "get it right?"  

[Jambun82]

22 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

Jambun, 

In the Sun-sentinel video, he seems to call time out at the beginning as indicted by the sideline judge. His team was on the field, so even if he was directing comments towards official at that moment doesnt it mean he can be on field and thus not penalized. . 

GatormanUF, during an authorized conference, one coach, and three trainers may walk out onto the middle of the field of play, and talk with his eleven players. The coach may NOT speak with an official during this conference. Most officials will answer a coach's question if the coach asks in a respectful way. However, the proper procedure for when a coach has a rule or judgment question, and calls a time-out for this question, is for the referee (white hat), and one or more other official to walk to the coaches sideline and answer the coach's question. The NFHS is very clear on this point. Any official is well within his right to have an UNC foul when a coach walks on the field of play, and confronts an official in a threatening manner. Threatening is in the eye of the official. The NFHS is very clear in this as well.

[Jambun82]

23 hours ago, badbird said:

White hat (referee).  no worries on the name calling except now columbiafan will use birdbrain instead of badbirdy.  Thanks a lot   As I re-read your first post it seems you were more questioning.  Hard to take what someones intents are when they write it instead of say it.  Seemed like you were taking the officials side without seeing the video or knowing the facts also.  I do believe both sides could have probably handled it better and I don't feel a 3 month suspension is appropriate.  

 

I was at a pop warner game today where a head coach wanted to pull his kids off the field because he felt the ref made a bad call.  The team was losing big and the coach was venting and trying to blame the officials for the beat down he was taking.  I went to the commisioner and told him what was going on and he went off on the head coach.  Why are we quitting?  Teach these kids a lesson not to quit and to overcome adversity because when they become older they are going to just quit.   As a head coach I never allowed my kids to complain about calls or use it as an excuse.  However I would advocate for my kids.  

Thank you badbird. A War and Peace sized book could be written about Pop Warner coaches. lol

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, Perspective said:

I'll avoid the sarcasm and simply suggest that this is an analogy.  Attorneys are typically the mouthpieces for their clients.  In other words, attorneys speak for their clients, whether it be in court or outside of court.   I think what the coach was saying, is that it is his job to speak for his players.   No coach worth his salt wants his players bitching at the refs.  Over the years, most of the coaches I've played for or seen on the sidelines tell their players not to say anything to the refs, but instead come to them if there is a problem and they (the coach) will speak to the refs. 

And, with all due respect, one of the head coach's duties and responsibilities is to monitor what the officials are doing.  Officials are humans they do make mistakes sometimes (some of which can be fixed on the spot; some of which cannot).   Are you suggesting that if the ref incorrectly signals it to be "3rd down" (perhaps because he forgot that the penalty on the offense was declined instead of accepted), the coach shouldn't worry about it?  If it were me on the sideline, I'd be yelling my butt off so that the mistake could immediately be corrected.  Isn't that what a good official would want -- to "get it right?"  

The Head Coaches role is NOT to moniter what the officials are doing, and speak on behalf of his players. It is to coach his team, and his players.  The Coach may have questions about certain rules interpretations  or even judgment calls, and as long as the coach calls time-out, and requests an explanation, he is due those questions to be answered. A Coach may ask about a down, how many time-outs are left, etc, and I would believe that most decent officials would answer as long as the question-concerns were delivered in a respectful way.  Perspective, you are correct, officials are human beings too. They like to be treated like human beings, and not like a piece of garbage. The NFHS rules are very clear about how coaches and players are to address officials. .

[Jambun82]

8 hours ago, Perspective said:

I have not seen the video.  But, I have seen a number of coaches call timeout and walk out onto the field to talk to the white hat.  Candidly, I think the white hats actually prefer this, as it gets the conversation away from the bench of the coach's team and it gets the conversation away from the fans.   And it allows the conversation to take place on more of a one-on-one basis.   Now, if the white hat had previously said something to the coach about coming out onto the field (even after calling a time out) or if the white hat put his hand up and gave the coach the proverbial "stop sign," and the coach continued walking out on to the field (especially if the coach is yelling as he's walking out and/or walking out in an aggressive manner), that would be different. 

Again, I haven't seen the video. But if the coach simply came out onto the field to discuss something (player safety, uncalled penalty, etc.) I might be able to accept an ejection, but I'm having a hard time accepting this would be worth a suspension for the rest of the year (unless the coach has a history and was on double-secret probation). 

Perspective, that is my point. We don't know if this coach has any history, or something previous. Also, we don't know if this was his second UNC foul, which is an automatic ejection. The FHSAA would NOT suspend a coach or player for this amount of time unless something very egregious happened. The FHSAA does not want to hand out this type of punishment, but there might have been no choice.  

[Perspective]

10 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The Head Coaches role is NOT to moniter what the officials are doing, and speak on behalf of his players. It is to coach his team, and his players.  The Coach may have questions about certain rules interpretations  or even judgment calls, and as long as the coach calls time-out, and requests an explanation, he is due those questions to be answered. A Coach may ask about a down, how many time-outs are left, etc, and I would believe that most decent officials would answer as long as the question-concerns were delivered in a respectful way.  Perspective, you are correct, officials are human beings too. They like to be treated like human beings, and not like a piece of garbage. The NFHS rules are very clear about how coaches and players are to address officials. .

Jambun, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the first point.   If the coach is not monitoring (i.e., observing) the officials, how can he be expected to raise a valid rule interpretation question or judgment call?  Similarly, I'm pretty darn sure that given the choice between having a 17-year old kid yell out that he's being held every play or the coach discretely getting the refs attention and asking him to keep an eye on the right guard for possible holding, 9 refs out of 10 would prefer the latter.  And the tenth ref would be the one who lost his hearing five years ago. 

As for the second bolded point, I'm well aware of this.  My father refereed high school (as well as junior college and college) basketball for over 25 years.  When I didn't have to get up early for school the next day, or didn't have a game or practice of my own, I would go with him to his games.   I learned the rules of the games but, more importantly, I learned how and how not to interact with officials. 

The biggest difference between football and basketball when it comes to interacting with the refs is the distance.  On the basketball court, the refs are constantly walking by the team benches or approaching the scorer's table, but even when they're not, they can only be so far away.  In football, even when the line of scrimmage is right in front of a team's bench, the white hat can be 30 or more yards away from a coach, in which case the only way to get the refs attention is to yell loudly.  In my view, that's not being disrespectful; it's simply taking into account the laws of science. 

[Jambun82]

12 hours ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the first point.   If the coach is not monitoring (i.e., observing) the officials, how can he be expected to raise a valid rule interpretation question or judgment call?  Similarly, I'm pretty darn sure that given the choice between having a 17-year old kid yell out that he's being held every play or the coach discretely getting the refs attention and asking him to keep an eye on the right guard for possible holding, 9 refs out of 10 would prefer the latter.  And the tenth ref would be the one who lost his hearing five years ago. 

As for the second bolded point, I'm well aware of this.  My father refereed high school (as well as junior college and college) basketball for over 25 years.  When I didn't have to get up early for school the next day, or didn't have a game or practice of my own, I would go with him to his games.   I learned the rules of the games but, more importantly, I learned how and how not to interact with officials. 

The biggest difference between football and basketball when it comes to interacting with the refs is the distance.  On the basketball court, the refs are constantly walking by the team benches or approaching the scorer's table, but even when they're not, they can only be so far away.  In football, even when the line of scrimmage is right in front of a team's bench, the white hat can be 30 or more yards away from a coach, in which case the only way to get the refs attention is to yell loudly.  In my view, that's not being disrespectful; it's simply taking into account the laws of science. 

Perspective, believe it or not, most officials would possibly prefer to have a 17 year old child asking them about a rule than an out-of-control coach. That 17 year old child would not be yelling that he is being held or about anything, because that player would be watching from the sidelines if he did. Trust me on that. Most coaches, in my experience, do not know the rules well enough to be evaluating officials, although some do, and are widely respected. There will always be coaches who have the complete respect and deference of most officials. However, there a lot of coaches who one sometimes wonder how they got these jobs, and whose opinion officials don't care about one bit. That is a fact. Also, basketball, in my view, is a lot harder to officiate than football for many reasons. If your father was a good basketball official, he would have been a good football official, if he liked the sport enough. Yelling in itself is not really an issue for the reasons that you stated. It is the tone of voice of the coach, and the language being used.