Clock Question

[gatorman-uf]

4 minutes left in 4th and Team A is trying to run the clock. Team A is on offense runs the clock down to a couple of seconds on playclock. Team A gets a false start, clock stops, ball is reset.  Once ball is reset, clock starts running again. Am I wrong to believe that the clock should not have begun again after the false start?

I am not sure if Team B noticed (They were home team) so i am unsure if coach was protesting it. 

[DarterBlue2]

12 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

4 minutes left in 4th and Team A is trying to run the clock. Team A is on offense runs the clock down to a couple of seconds on playclock. Team A gets a false start, clock stops, ball is reset.  Once ball is reset, clock starts running again. Am I wrong to believe that the clock should not have begun again after the false start?

I am not sure if Team B noticed (They were home team) so i am unsure if coach was protesting it. 

I don't think you are wrong. What say you Mr. Jamburn?

[badbird]

Clock runs on a false start on the offense. If the refs feel the team is doing it on purpose to run clock they can stop it.  It is a good way to eat clock if the other team is out of timeouts.  

[Cat_Scratch]

10 hours ago, badbird said:

Clock runs on a false start on the offense. If the refs feel the team is doing it on purpose to run clock they can stop it.  It is a good way to eat clock if the other team is out of timeouts.  

Pretty sure you can not end a game on a penalty. Also, I think the clock stops when the flag is tossed. If the flag is tossed before time expires then I'm fairly certain time is put back on the clock to the point of the flag. The ref that tosses the flag should also note the time on the clock. The white hat is watching the play clock not the game clock, so if the white hat tossed the flag then it's up to the game time clock manager to notice the time. If it's a running clock then I believe the game is over.

 

[Jambun82]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 6:37 PM, gatorman-uf said:

4 minutes left in 4th and Team A is trying to run the clock. Team A is on offense runs the clock down to a couple of seconds on playclock. Team A gets a false start, clock stops, ball is reset.  Once ball is reset, clock starts running again. Am I wrong to believe that the clock should not have begun again after the false start?

I am not sure if Team B noticed (They were home team) so i am unsure if coach was protesting it. 

Gatorman-uf, it is correct to start the clock on the referee's ready for play whistle after a false start foul. Only after a delay of game foul does the clock start on the snap.

[Jambun82]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 7:11 PM, badbird said:

Clock runs on a false start on the offense. If the refs feel the team is doing it on purpose to run clock they can stop it.  It is a good way to eat clock if the other team is out of timeouts.  

The offended team has the right in the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters to have the clock start on the snap after a foul. Badbird is correct however, the referee has the authority to order the clock stopped or started if he/she feels that a team is trying to consume or conserve time illegally.

[Jambun82]

14 hours ago, Cat_Scratch said:

Pretty sure you can not end a game on a penalty. Also, I think the clock stops when the flag is tossed. If the flag is tossed before time expires then I'm fairly certain time is put back on the clock to the point of the flag. The ref that tosses the flag should also note the time on the clock. The white hat is watching the play clock not the game clock, so if the white hat tossed the flag then it's up to the game time clock manager to notice the time. If it's a running clock then I believe the game is over.

 

Cat Scratch, the game cannot end on an accepted defensive penalty. If time runs out during a play that has an accepted defensive penalty, an untimed down is played. The time is NOT put back on the clock.

[Perspective]

9 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

The offended team has the right in the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters to have the clock start on the snap after a foul. Badbird is correct however, the referee has the authority to order the clock stopped or started if he/she feels that a team is trying to consume or conserve time illegally.

Jambun, I read this in the rules.   How is this interpreted?   How does a team "consume (or conserve) time illegally?"    Is the white hat supposed to read the coaches mind and make a determination whether a coach has told a play to take an intentional false start penalty or feign an injury? 

Have you ever seen an official make this determination in a game (i.e., that one team or the other was trying to consume or conserve time illegally)?  

I'm just trying to get a feel for how officials make such a subjective determination. 

Thanks.

[badbird]

1 hour ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, I read this in the rules.   How is this interpreted?   How does a team "consume (or conserve) time illegally?"    Is the white hat supposed to read the coaches mind and make a determination whether a coach has told a play to take an intentional false start penalty or feign an injury? 

Have you ever seen an official make this determination in a game (i.e., that one team or the other was trying to consume or conserve time illegally)?  

I'm just trying to get a feel for how officials make such a subjective determination. 

Thanks.

I know you asked this to Jambun but we use to jump offsides on purpose.  We had a play called Maurice jump on 2.  So we would try and draw the defense offsides if they didn't jump Maurice would jump offsides on 2.  The whole team would then yell at him.  It always worked the first time.  We would usually only do it once.  The second time we jumped against Lakeland one year they stopped the clock because Castle was pissed and yelling at the refs.  With the new clock rules you can run off almost 3 minutes if a team doesn't have timeouts and you jump offsides once.

[Perspective]

6 minutes ago, badbird said:

I know you asked this to Jambun but we use to jump offsides on purpose.  We had a play called Maurice jump on 2.  So we would try and draw the defense offsides if they didn't jump Maurice would jump offsides on 2.  The whole team would then yell at him.  It always worked the first time.  We would usually only do it once.  The second time we jumped against Lakeland one year they stopped the clock because Castle was pissed and yelling at the refs.  With the new clock rules you can run off almost 3 minutes if a team doesn't have timeouts and you jump offsides once.

The coach should have pulled Maurice out of the game and given him a good tongue-lashing over on the sidelines, too! 

The play that you described is exactly why I asked the question.   How the heck is the ref supposed to know whether that play was real or contrived?   I'd be more inclined to support a rule change:  last 5 minutes of each half (or the last few minutes of the first half and the entire fourth quarter), if the score of the game is within, say, 24 points (i.e., 3 scores/3 2-point conversions), if the team on offense commits the penalty, the clock doesn't start running again until the ball is snapped. 

[badbird]

45 minutes ago, Perspective said:

The coach should have pulled Maurice out of the game and given him a good tongue-lashing over on the sidelines, too! 

The play that you described is exactly why I asked the question.   How the heck is the ref supposed to know whether that play was real or contrived?   I'd be more inclined to support a rule change:  last 5 minutes of each half (or the last few minutes of the first half and the entire fourth quarter), if the score of the game is within, say, 24 points (i.e., 3 scores/3 2-point conversions), if the team on offense commits the penalty, the clock doesn't start running again until the ball is snapped. 

or let the defense have the choice if the clock stops or starts 

[Perspective]

2 minutes ago, badbird said:

or let the defense have the choice if the clock stops or starts 

Yes.  Good point. 

[gatorman-uf]

12 hours ago, Jambun82 said:

Gatorman-uf, it is correct to start the clock on the referee's ready for play whistle after a false start foul. Only after a delay of game foul does the clock start on the snap.

 

On 10/5/2019 at 10:11 PM, badbird said:

Clock runs on a false start on the offense. If the refs feel the team is doing it on purpose to run clock they can stop it.  It is a good way to eat clock if the other team is out of timeouts.  

Thank you both for answering. It was near the end of the playclock so I thought it have been a delay of game penalty, but it was a false start call. I am just surprised that is the rule, seems as some people have suggested it could lead to abuse. 

[Jambun82]

11 hours ago, Perspective said:

Jambun, I read this in the rules.   How is this interpreted?   How does a team "consume (or conserve) time illegally?"    Is the white hat supposed to read the coaches mind and make a determination whether a coach has told a play to take an intentional false start penalty or feign an injury? 

Have you ever seen an official make this determination in a game (i.e., that one team or the other was trying to consume or conserve time illegally)?  

I'm just trying to get a feel for how officials make such a subjective determination. 

Thanks.

Perspective, the referee just has to use his/her best judgment. It is usually very obvious anyway, when a team is attempting to consume or conserve time. I could count the number of times on one hand that the referee has had to actually enforce this rule, it is very rare. A big part of being a game official is using the best judgment, and trying to apply common-sense, logical reasoning to any decision. I am sure that your father, the basketball official, would agree.  

[Jambun82]

7 hours ago, gatorman-uf said:

 

Thank you both for answering. It was near the end of the playclock so I thought it have been a delay of game penalty, but it was a false start call. I am just surprised that is the rule, seems as some people have suggested it could lead to abuse. 

Gatorman-uf, that is why the rule provision granting the referee the authority to start or stop the clock as he/she sees fit is in the rule book. As well as the recent rule change granting the offended team after an accepted foul to have the clock start on the snap in the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters.

[Perspective]

Proof that Bill Belichick follows this board:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/belichick-exploited-loophole-nfl-rules-091305795.html

[s1nglewing]

I've had players jump to kill clock. It's a very old and time-tested coaching tool.