RPI frustrations

[gatorman-uf]

One of the reasons, I wish the FHSAA would be more open with their data regarding the RPI is to be able to double check.

If you go on and look at the RPI for Week 10, Mainland is listed as a 6-3 team.
If you click on the 6-3 record of the team, it takes you to MaxPreps and has the team listed as a 5-3 team, so how in a day does Mainland go from a 6-3 to a 5-3 in one day. Well, it is easy. The MaxPreps system had Mainland playing the Youthbuild Centurions out of Columbus, Ohio. Mainland had a forfeit win against them. Now, this confuses me, because I am pretty sure that Youthbuild and Mainland never had a game scheduled (or at least nothing that I can find). Now, today it has been fixed, the game is removed. But I hope we don't find tons of these last minute additions to maxpreps. BTW, even though the MaxPreps has been updated the RPI rankings have not. 

[DisabledAccount]

18 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

One of the reasons, I wish the FHSAA would be more open with their data regarding the RPI is to be able to double check.

If you go on and look at the RPI for Week 10, Mainland is listed as a 6-3 team.
If you click on the 6-3 record of the team, it takes you to MaxPreps and has the team listed as a 5-3 team, so how in a day does Mainland go from a 6-3 to a 5-3 in one day. Well, it is easy. The MaxPreps system had Mainland playing the Youthbuild Centurions out of Columbus, Ohio. Mainland had a forfeit win against them. Now, this confuses me, because I am pretty sure that Youthbuild and Mainland never had a game scheduled (or at least nothing that I can find). Now, today it has been fixed, the game is removed. But I hope we don't find tons of these last minute additions to maxpreps. BTW, even though the MaxPreps has been updated the RPI rankings have not. 

They had someone set from Freedom Bowl but it got dropped if i remember correctly

[Perspective]

17 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

One of the reasons, I wish the FHSAA would be more open with their data regarding the RPI is to be able to double check.

If you go on and look at the RPI for Week 10, Mainland is listed as a 6-3 team.
If you click on the 6-3 record of the team, it takes you to MaxPreps and has the team listed as a 5-3 team, so how in a day does Mainland go from a 6-3 to a 5-3 in one day. Well, it is easy. The MaxPreps system had Mainland playing the Youthbuild Centurions out of Columbus, Ohio. Mainland had a forfeit win against them. Now, this confuses me, because I am pretty sure that Youthbuild and Mainland never had a game scheduled (or at least nothing that I can find). Now, today it has been fixed, the game is removed. But I hope we don't find tons of these last minute additions to maxpreps. BTW, even though the MaxPreps has been updated the RPI rankings have not. 

All of the raw data should be released this week so that fact-checkers can do their jobs and raise issues like this.  Otherwise, the FHSAA is going to "set the playoffs" on Sunday morning.  And then, when the data gets flyspecked and irregularities are brought to their attention for the first time, what is the FHSAA going to do?  Are they really going to call a team on Tuesday of next week and say, "Hey, we had a little snafu and, as it turns out,  Generic High School's RPI is actually a thousandth of a point higher than yours, so they get the 8th seed, not you guys.  So, you should just go ahead and cancel practice for this afternoon.  Sorry about the mix-up."  I'd hate to be the guy making those calls. 

[gatorman-uf]

In defense of the FHSAA (despite being an RPI critic), my numbers have consistently lined up with the FHSAAs. But when I do make mistakes, it would be easier if all schools' data was available instead of wondering where my mistake is. For example, my rankings would have been very off if someone on here had not posted about Glades Central forfeiting games. 

I know they aren't including the FHSAA Independent class, but it would be nice if they did as a lot of the winning percentages, opponent's winning percentage are coming from that group. 

 

31 minutes ago, ColumbiaHighFan2017class said:

They had someone set from Freedom Bowl but it got dropped if i remember correctly

They did. The name of the school was Bishop Sycamore, but I guess they have now changed their name to Youthbuild. 

[Perspective]

Just curious as to what affect Randazzo's early season wins are having on the calculations?  

[LAZ]

I really like the RPI. It’s the best method the FHSSA has ever used to help determine the “strongest” teams within each classification. There will be detractors and whiners with every selection process (See At-Large teams in the NCAA basketball tournament). But the FHSAA is light years ahead of where they’ve been when it comes to creating a more competitive playoff field. The only other major change that would help ensure we have the absolute best state tournament, would be to shrink the number of classifications but we all know that might take some doing. So from a spectator’s perspective, Kudos FHSAA for taking this important leap. 

 

[Hwy17]

1 hour ago, LAZ said:

I really like the RPI. It’s the best method the FHSSA has ever used to help determine the “strongest” teams within each classification. There will be detractors and whiners with every selection process (See At-Large teams in the NCAA basketball tournament). But the FHSAA is light years ahead of where they’ve been when it comes to creating a more competitive playoff field. The only other major change that would help ensure we have the absolute best state tournament, would be to shrink the number of classifications but we all know that might take some doing. So from a spectator’s perspective, Kudos FHSAA for taking this important leap. 

 

Fail

[HornetFan]

I don't have a problem with the district champions being guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, but the RPI rankings should be used to seed the teams from 1 thru 8, regardless of district championships. Right now, a weak district champion is guaranteed at least a four seed; that doesn't make sense.

[badbird]

1 hour ago, Hwy17 said:

Fail

He said it's the best method they have used.  The others sucked really really bad so that's not saying much

[Hwy17]

14 minutes ago, badbird said:

He said it's the best method they have used.  The others sucked really really bad so that's not saying much

The system we had in 1999-2000 was the best.  3 districts per region.  Champs and runner-ups get in; 2 at large spots with a simple point system

[badbird]

16 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

The system we had in 1999-2000 was the best.  3 districts per region.  Champs and runner-ups get in; 2 at large spots with a simple point system

I think he was talking about the last few years when they went from champ and runner up to this. 

 

The point system for the wild cards wasn't the best then either but I did benefit from it one year

[badbird]

18 minutes ago, Hwy17 said:

The system we had in 1999-2000 was the best.  3 districts per region.  Champs and runner-ups get in; 2 at large spots with a simple point system

would love to see them go back to something similar.  12 districts 7 teams in each so that's 84 teams per class.  

[Hwy17]

2 hours ago, badbird said:

I think he was talking about the last few years when they went from champ and runner up to this. 

 

The point system for the wild cards wasn't the best then either but I did benefit from it one year

Yeah,  we went 7-3 in 2000 and still missed the playoffs 

[Perspective]

This whole discussion of the FHSAA playoff system reminds me of the quote about democracy often attributed to Winston Churchill:

"Democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

[181pl]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:37 PM, LAZ said:

I really like the RPI. It’s the best method the FHSSA has ever used to help determine the “strongest” teams within each classification. There will be detractors and whiners with every selection process (See At-Large teams in the NCAA basketball tournament). But the FHSAA is light years ahead of where they’ve been when it comes to creating a more competitive playoff field. The only other major change that would help ensure we have the absolute best state tournament, would be to shrink the number of classifications but we all know that might take some doing. So from a spectator’s perspective, Kudos FHSAA for taking this important leap. 

 

But there needs to be a little more emphasis on winning. as everyone knows, I'm a plant alumn and follow the program. But does a 4 and 6 record warrant the playoffs? That is if they beat Robinson. And they haven't beat one quality team on their schedule. Wharton had a winning record, but they played nothing but cream puffs. I'd like to see the winning part of the RPI move up to 45%.

[181pl]

23 hours ago, Hwy17 said:

The system we had in 1999-2000 was the best.  3 districts per region.  Champs and runner-ups get in; 2 at large spots with a simple point system

That does seem to be the fairest system I've seen. The other way would be to have very big districts. And the top two make it, but you need districts with no less than seven teams.

[181pl]

On 10/30/2019 at 5:17 PM, HornetFan said:

I don't have a problem with the district champions being guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, but the RPI rankings should be used to seed the teams from 1 thru 8, regardless of district championships. Right now, a weak district champion is guaranteed at least a four seed; that doesn't make sense.

I don't know about that. If you win your district you should at least be rewarded with one home game. Can always reseed based on RPI after the first round that seems fair

[STILL KRUNK]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:37 PM, LAZ said:

I really like the RPI. It’s the best method the FHSSA has ever used to help determine the “strongest” teams within each classification. There will be detractors and whiners with every selection process (See At-Large teams in the NCAA basketball tournament). But the FHSAA is light years ahead of where they’ve been when it comes to creating a more competitive playoff field. The only other major change that would help ensure we have the absolute best state tournament, would be to shrink the number of classifications but we all know that might take some doing. So from a spectator’s perspective, Kudos FHSAA for taking this important leap. 

 

I'm not sure it was a LEAP LAZ, it was a necessity to fix their untested/under tested first brain child.  If it is a leap, it was a leap from the DUMPSTER FIRE it originally created for the original playoff system. Yes this is better, but i could see where spread of win/loss could factor in as well (you could cap spread).

[Jags904]

On 10/30/2019 at 5:42 PM, Hwy17 said:

The system we had in 1999-2000 was the best.  3 districts per region.  Champs and runner-ups get in; 2 at large spots with a simple point system

I loved that. The best system I’ve seen so far.

[HornetFan]

22 hours ago, 181pl said:

I don't know about that. If you win your district you should at least be rewarded with one home game. Can always reseed based on RPI after the first round that seems fair

In 5A, Region 2, Nature Coast won their district with a 5-5 (4-1) record and an upset victory over previously unbeaten Citrus HS 9-1 (4-1) in their district. Instead of being an 8 seed, they are guaranteed a 4 seed. They are probably the worst team in 5A, R2, but get to host a team that will easily have a higher RPI. A system that seeds teams usually means you seed from best to worst; 5-8 should not be better teams than #4.

[Joshua Wilson]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:09 PM, gatorman-uf said:

One of the reasons, I wish the FHSAA would be more open with their data regarding the RPI is to be able to double check.

If you go on and look at the RPI for Week 10, Mainland is listed as a 6-3 team.
If you click on the 6-3 record of the team, it takes you to MaxPreps and has the team listed as a 5-3 team, so how in a day does Mainland go from a 6-3 to a 5-3 in one day. Well, it is easy. The MaxPreps system had Mainland playing the Youthbuild Centurions out of Columbus, Ohio. Mainland had a forfeit win against them. Now, this confuses me, because I am pretty sure that Youthbuild and Mainland never had a game scheduled (or at least nothing that I can find). Now, today it has been fixed, the game is removed. But I hope we don't find tons of these last minute additions to maxpreps. BTW, even though the MaxPreps has been updated the RPI rankings have not. 

To take up this question... Youthbuild is the new name Bishop Sycamore changed to the week after the game was dropped by them. There was a game contract for that game and thus Mainland is awarded a forfeit win for that game.