Suggestion for fixing the system

[badbird]

So gatorman was pushing the relegation system and I think I’m on board.

 

Open Division Top 32 teams - all make the playoffs seeded 1-32.  Weeks 9,10,11 our top 32 teams play out of state teams or each other.

5A Next best 96 teams divided into 12 districts with 8 teams in each district.  You do not have to play district teams but week 9,10 and 11 there will be a district tournament to decide the district champ and runner up.  Champ and runner up advance along with highest 2 remaining teams.

4A next 96 see above

3A next 96

2A next 96

1A next 96

I believe if you do this no one would want to be independent except the cheaters IMG and maybe the SSAC.  That’s 512 teams.  If  you are not top 512 you are independent.  I would seed based off Pinkos.  I would put a cap on what a team could win by. So let’s say a 28 point win is the same as a 58 point win to prevent running up scores.  Once we got to the playoffs I would seed 1-8.  Champs are not locked into higher seed however if a champ played a runner up or wild card they would host.

[badbird]

Problems this would fix:

 

too many classes

not enough teams in classes 

playoffs would be decided on field except 2 spots in each region 

Teams wouldn’t complain about being in a district with some one superior than them

travel wouldn’t matter because you would only have to play them in the tournament

Thoughts?

 

 

[Perspective]

Would Plant have made the playoffs this year under this system? 

[badbird]

Just now, Perspective said:

Would Plant have made the playoffs this year under this system? 

Maybe.  Plant would have fallen in 5A to start and they would have been given a chance to earn it on the field in a district tournament instead of someone else losing week 11 that they played early in the season knocking them out

[nolebull813]

If there is 512 teams just classify them in 5 classes by enrollment. 

That’s 102 teams per class. You have 16 districts. 102/16 equals 6.4 

meaning each district would have 6-7 teams per district. Champs and runner ups advance. 

 

Positives would be relief on scheduling and travel. 

[gatorman-uf]

Let's be honest, as much as I talk about promotion/relegation, it is a pipe dream, because admins/ADs/coaches are scared. Look at the push back from non-football sports for the radical realignment the FHSAA wanted to do. The reality is that if promotion/relegation is going to happen, it will happen slowly.  Having said that, the FHSAA can do some simple things to fix things. 
1) Go back to 4 teams for 1A-4A who make the playoffs, instead of 6.
or
2) Shrink 2A-4A down by 1 classification, with the goal of 60 teams (15 teams per region) if they are going to keep 6 teams.

Ideally:
1A: Keep the Same
2A: Expand to 60 teams (~15 teams per region)
3A: Expand to 60 teams (~15 teams per region)
4A-7A: Equally Split (~80 teams per) The reality is that we should shrink by one more class to get closer to 96 teams per class and 16 districts, but shrinking by 2 classes would be very radical.
______
Use the average of the RPI/LaxIndex/Pinkos (whatever system) over 2 years (preferably after the playoffs are done) to continue to allow teams to "earn" points as they progress.
Lowest 10 teams drop a classification, top 10 teams move up a classification. 
It would take 10 years for a 3A team to make it to 7A, slow changes are important if you are going to sell this idea.
Brand new public schools start at 3A (no matter their size) and have to work their way up while they gather some stability in their program. 

Assuming we just used this year's RPI for 5A-8A.
8A Drops to 7A:
Alonso (Tampa, FL) 
Oak Ridge (Orlando, FL) 
Haines City (FL) 
Leonard (Greenacres, FL) 
Cypress Creek (Orlando, FL) 
West Broward (Pembroke Pines, FL) 
Piper (Sunrise, FL) 
University (Orlando, FL) 
Windermere (FL) 
Spanish River (Boca Raton, FL) 

7A Rises to 8A:
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale, FL) 
Armwood (Seffner, FL) 
Lakeland (FL) 
Edgewater (Orlando, FL) 
Palm Beach Lakes (West Palm Beach, FL) 
Niceville (FL) 
Fleming Island (Orange Park, FL) 
Bloomingdale (Valrico, FL) 
Viera (FL) 
Tampa Bay Tech (Tampa, FL) 

7A Drops to 6A:
Olympic Heights (Boca Raton, FL) 
Homestead (FL) 
Strawberry Crest (Dover, FL) 
American (Hialeah, FL) 
Everglades (Miramar, FL) 
North Port (FL) 
West Boca Raton (Boca Raton, FL) 
Miami Beach (FL) 
Leto (Tampa, FL) 
Mater Academy Charter (Hialeah Gardens, FL) 

6A Rises to 7A:
Palmetto (FL) 
Naples (FL) 
Port Charlotte (FL) 
Escambia (Pensacola, FL) 
Lake Gibson (Lakeland, FL) 
Gaither (Tampa, FL) 
Dillard (Fort Lauderdale, FL) 
Clearwater (FL) 
Largo (FL) 
Fort Myers (FL) 

6A Drops to 5A
Port St. Lucie (FL) 
Northeast (Oakland Park, FL) 
Deltona (FL) 
Okeechobee (FL) 
Freedom (Tampa, FL) 
Spoto (Riverview, FL) 
Hollywood Hills (Hollywood, FL) 
Pine Ridge (Deltona, FL) 
Gateway (Kissimmee, FL) 
Brandon (FL) 

5A Rises to 6A
Rockledge (FL) 
American Heritage (Plantation, FL) 
Northwestern (Miami, FL) 
Jones (Orlando, FL) 
Eau Gallie (Melbourne, FL) 
Wakulla (Crawfordville, FL) 
Lake Wales (FL) 
Dunnellon (FL) 
Citrus (Inverness, FL) 

5A Drops to 4A
Estero (FL) 
Lake Weir (Ocala, FL) 
Stanton (Jacksonville, FL) 
Ridgeview (Orange Park, FL) 
Tarpon Springs (FL) 
Booker (Sarasota, FL) 
Cape Coral (FL) 
Belleview (FL) 
Gibbs (St. Petersburg, FL) 
Gulf (New Port Richey, FL) 

In quickly looking at this, I know there are some problems. Palm Beach Lakes could be the newest fad of a team and probably doesn't have long term to stay at 8A, oh well. How many of the teams that are dropping are we thinking that they just had a bad year vs them being a constant homecoming/senior night opponent?

The goal of the FHSAA has to be to create an equitable playing field. Size is a good indicator of the talent that should be available at a school, but obviously, it is not the only indicator. So let's use size, but also use wins and losses, Strength of Schedule, and other factors. Teams want to face equal level teams. Nobody on this board thinks Trinity Christian (Jax) or Chaminade-Madonna playing at 3A is good for them or 3A. For those fearful of big teams moving down, look at a team like Stanton (Jax), they could move 2A and barely be competitive, but at least they would have a chance rather than staying at 5A. 

[Perspective]

Interesting stuff.   One thought occurred to me (which is more than I can say for most days):  it seems the FHSAA likes to do things in 2-year cycles.  Would you propose relegating every year or every two years?  A 2-year cycle might take care of the 'one and done' class at a school that typically has not been particularly strong in their classification and after one year of brilliance, returns back to their previous form. 

[Perspective]

By the way, every school in 8A just decided to vote against this idea once they saw that STA, Lakeland and Armwood would all be moving up.  

[badbird]

28 minutes ago, gatorman-uf said:

Let's be honest, as much as I talk about promotion/relegation, it is a pipe dream, because admins/ADs/coaches are scared. Look at the push back from non-football sports for the radical realignment the FHSAA wanted to do. The reality is that if promotion/relegation is going to happen, it will happen slowly.  Having said that, the FHSAA can do some simple things to fix things. 
1) Go back to 4 teams for 1A-4A who make the playoffs, instead of 6.
or
2) Shrink 2A-4A down by 1 classification, with the goal of 60 teams (15 teams per region) if they are going to keep 6 teams.

Ideally:
1A: Keep the Same
2A: Expand to 60 teams (~15 teams per region)
3A: Expand to 60 teams (~15 teams per region)
4A-7A: Equally Split (~80 teams per) The reality is that we should shrink by one more class to get closer to 96 teams per class and 16 districts, but shrinking by 2 classes would be very radical.
______
Use the average of the RPI/LaxIndex/Pinkos (whatever system) over 2 years (preferably after the playoffs are done) to continue to allow teams to "earn" points as they progress.
Lowest 10 teams drop a classification, top 10 teams move up a classification. 
It would take 10 years for a 3A team to make it to 7A, slow changes are important if you are going to sell this idea.
Brand new public schools start at 3A (no matter their size) and have to work their way up while they gather some stability in their program. 

Assuming we just used this year's RPI for 5A-8A.
8A Drops to 7A:
Alonso (Tampa, FL) 
Oak Ridge (Orlando, FL) 
Haines City (FL) 
Leonard (Greenacres, FL) 
Cypress Creek (Orlando, FL) 
West Broward (Pembroke Pines, FL) 
Piper (Sunrise, FL) 
University (Orlando, FL) 
Windermere (FL) 
Spanish River (Boca Raton, FL) 

7A Rises to 8A:
St. Thomas Aquinas (Fort Lauderdale, FL) 
Armwood (Seffner, FL) 
Lakeland (FL) 
Edgewater (Orlando, FL) 
Palm Beach Lakes (West Palm Beach, FL) 
Niceville (FL) 
Fleming Island (Orange Park, FL) 
Bloomingdale (Valrico, FL) 
Viera (FL) 
Tampa Bay Tech (Tampa, FL) 

7A Drops to 6A:
Olympic Heights (Boca Raton, FL) 
Homestead (FL) 
Strawberry Crest (Dover, FL) 
American (Hialeah, FL) 
Everglades (Miramar, FL) 
North Port (FL) 
West Boca Raton (Boca Raton, FL) 
Miami Beach (FL) 
Leto (Tampa, FL) 
Mater Academy Charter (Hialeah Gardens, FL) 

6A Rises to 7A:
Palmetto (FL) 
Naples (FL) 
Port Charlotte (FL) 
Escambia (Pensacola, FL) 
Lake Gibson (Lakeland, FL) 
Gaither (Tampa, FL) 
Dillard (Fort Lauderdale, FL) 
Clearwater (FL) 
Largo (FL) 
Fort Myers (FL) 

6A Drops to 5A
Port St. Lucie (FL) 
Northeast (Oakland Park, FL) 
Deltona (FL) 
Okeechobee (FL) 
Freedom (Tampa, FL) 
Spoto (Riverview, FL) 
Hollywood Hills (Hollywood, FL) 
Pine Ridge (Deltona, FL) 
Gateway (Kissimmee, FL) 
Brandon (FL) 

5A Rises to 6A
Rockledge (FL) 
American Heritage (Plantation, FL) 
Northwestern (Miami, FL) 
Jones (Orlando, FL) 
Eau Gallie (Melbourne, FL) 
Wakulla (Crawfordville, FL) 
Lake Wales (FL) 
Dunnellon (FL) 
Citrus (Inverness, FL) 

5A Drops to 4A
Estero (FL) 
Lake Weir (Ocala, FL) 
Stanton (Jacksonville, FL) 
Ridgeview (Orange Park, FL) 
Tarpon Springs (FL) 
Booker (Sarasota, FL) 
Cape Coral (FL) 
Belleview (FL) 
Gibbs (St. Petersburg, FL) 
Gulf (New Port Richey, FL) 

In quickly looking at this, I know there are some problems. Palm Beach Lakes could be the newest fad of a team and probably doesn't have long term to stay at 8A, oh well. How many of the teams that are dropping are we thinking that they just had a bad year vs them being a constant homecoming/senior night opponent?

The goal of the FHSAA has to be to create an equitable playing field. Size is a good indicator of the talent that should be available at a school, but obviously, it is not the only indicator. So let's use size, but also use wins and losses, Strength of Schedule, and other factors. Teams want to face equal level teams. Nobody on this board thinks Trinity Christian (Jax) or Chaminade-Madonna playing at 3A is good for them or 3A. For those fearful of big teams moving down, look at a team like Stanton (Jax), they could move 2A and barely be competitive, but at least they would have a chance rather than staying at 5A. 

I like moving up slowly but I also like the large class only being 32 teams.  These are your super teams and If I'm a Winter Park (insert good team but not great) and ranked about 50 every year I have no shot in 8A at making any kind of run.

[181pl]

This isn't hard folks. Four larger classes and two smaller classes. Break them up as follows:

 

3A-6A-

96 teams per class. Four Regions in each class. Three districts in each Region. Each district has 8 teams. Top two per district automatically for playoff (winner and runner up; tie breakers decided either by one quarter play-in or RPI). TWO wildcards in each Region decided by RPI. 50% your record. 30% your opponents record. 20% you opponent's opponent's record. Makes for a nice 8 teams per Region, just like the present. District winners are your top 3 seeds. Seeds 4-8 decided by RPI. Five round of playoffs.

A-AA-

Two classes with approximately 60 teams each, with room for growth (as some independents or non FHSAA members may decide to join). Each class has 4 Regions of at least 15 teams. You must schedule 7 teams in your Region. Top 4 based on regional record qualifies. If there is a tie, it can be decided by one quarter play in or RPI, depending on what the FHSAA sets. Four rounds of playoffs.